Isaac for DLC - One day. Some day. Golden Sunday.

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

And when would that be? (Sorry if I sound noobish, but I never followed McLeodGaming up 'till some 2/3 months).

The Apex event is in January, every year...... so January 2015 is the maximum date for Isaac to be shown in SSF2 but thanks to McLeodGaming Directs, it could be sooner

 

[ChronoBound]

Personally, I am not optimistic on Isaac happening as DLC.

While some see there being no trophy for Isaac in Smash 4 3DS as a good sign, I personally see it as a bad one.

The focus of the 3DS's trophies were handheld titles. Moreover, a lot of Smash 4 3DS's trophies were model rips, even from DS games (just look at the Spirit Tracks trophies). Seeing as how Camelot provided model rips for several trophies from the 3DS Mario Golf and Tennis titles, its disconcerting about how there were not any trophies from Dark Dawn (Spirit Tracks was even released around the same time as Dark Dawn).

Camelot seems to have given up on Golden Sun in general (just look at their most recent interview on whether they would make another Golden Sun, they seem to have been let down by the poor performance of Dark Dawn to the point where they seem like they don't want to make another RPG in general).

It is possible that another Golden Sun title is in development for the 3DS since there is really nothing left for Camelot to work on at this point (Camelot is now too small to make a HD game, and they already released their 3DS Mario Tennis and Golf titles).

However, Camelot did basically go through the Wii/DS era basically making nothing. Their only output after 2005 up until 2010 was a throwaway Wii golf title. Its pretty depressing what has happened to Camelot (especially when you see what they did during the 90's and the first half of the previous decade).

I am optimistic on Isaac happening for Project M though. He is single most wanted character for that.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Personally, I am not optimistic on Isaac happening as DLC.

While some see there being no trophy for Isaac in Smash 4 3DS as a good sign, I personally see it as a bad one.

The focus of the 3DS's trophies were handheld titles. Moreover, a lot of Smash 4 3DS's trophies were model rips, even from DS games (just look at the Spirit Tracks trophies). Seeing as how Camelot provided model rips for several trophies from the 3DS Mario Golf and Tennis titles, its disconcerting about how there were not any trophies from Dark Dawn (Spirit Tracks was even released around the same time as Dark Dawn).

Camelot seems to have given up on Golden Sun in general (just look at their most recent interview on whether they would make another Golden Sun, they seem to have been let down by the poor performance of Dark Dawn to the point where they seem like they don't want to make another RPG in general).

It is possible that another Golden Sun title is in development for the 3DS since there is really nothing left for Camelot to work on at this point (Camelot is now too small to make a HD game, and they already released their 3DS Mario Tennis and Golf titles).

However, Camelot did basically go through the Wii/DS era basically making nothing. Their only output after 2005 up until 2010 was a throwaway Wii golf title. Its pretty depressing what has happened to Camelot (especially when you see what they did during the 90's and the first half of the previous decade).

I am optimistic on Isaac happening for Project M though. He is single most wanted character for that.

Fair enough. That said, the reason why us Isaac supporters are optimistic about Isaac is because, despite his popularity relative to characters that did resume their AT roles, he has yet to have a specific role in Smash.

I still believe there is a chance for another GS game yet. I won't give up hope until that has been disconfirmed.

 

[ChronoBound]

Fair enough. That said, the reason why us Isaac supporters are optimistic about Isaac is because, despite his popularity relative to characters that did resume their AT roles, he has yet to have a specific role in Smash.

I still believe there is a chance for another GS game yet. I won't give up hope until that has been disconfirmed.

I am just worried that such optimism might make the Project M team decide not to do Isaac since similar feelings about "showing up for Smash 4" made them hold off on Ridley., and look how that turned out.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I am just worried that such optimism might make the Project M team decide not to do Isaac since similar feelings about "showing up for Smash 4" made them hold off on Ridley., and look how that turned out.

Fair point. Frankly, I still think Ridley has a good chance to be in Project M due to the fact that the team recognized Ridley's popularity.

 

[ChronoBound]

Fair point. Frankly, I still think Ridley has a good chance to be in Project M due to the fact that the team recognized Ridley's popularity.

Eh. I know a little more, and I can say the only way I see Ridley making it in is if Bagan joins the team.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

So let's say Isaac arrives as character dlc. What (regular) Golden Sun trophies would you like to see on the 3DS version? (It would get the most Golden Sun trophies) This would be my choice:

Isaac
Isaac (Alt)
Matthew
Felix
Djinn (Venus, Mars, Mercury & Jupiter)
Saturos & Menardi
Venus Lighthouse (Stage)
Garet
Ivan
Mia
Jenna
Alex
Karis
Tyrell
Kraden
The Wise One
Sveta
Karst & Agatio
Fusion Dragon
Golden Sun enemy (if it got a smash run enemy)
Crystallux

I tried to keep the number as low as possible, I realise Golden Sun isn't a series that would get tons of trophies. 21 is probably still a lot....you could maybe cut out some of the party members.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Just Isaac and all of his partners, Felix, and maybe slip in Matthew.
I think that's all you need for Golden Sun representation regarding trophies IMO.

 

[JaidynReiman]

So let's say Isaac arrives as character dlc. What (regular) Golden Sun trophies would you like to see on the 3DS version? (It would get the most Golden Sun trophies) This would be my choice:

Isaac
Isaac (Alt)
Matthew
Felix
Djinn (Venus, Mars, Mercury & Jupiter)
Saturos & Menardi
Venus Lighthouse (Stage)
Garet
Ivan
Mia
Jenna
Alex
Karis
Tyrell
Kraden
The Wise One
Sveta
Karst & Agatio
Fusion Dragon
Golden Sun enemy (if it got a smash run enemy)
Crystallux

I tried to keep the number as low as possible, I realise Golden Sun isn't a series that would get tons of trophies. 21 is probably still a lot....you could maybe cut out some of the party members.

I'd think:

Isaac
Isaac (Alt)
Matthew
Felix
Djinn (Venus, Mars, Mercury & Jupiter)
Saturos & Menardi
Venus Lighthouse (Stage)
Garet
Jenna
Alex
Kraden
The Wise One
Sveta
Judgment

Even Kraden's a bit questionable, but I think at least we'd get all the "main" characters, and all characters who appeared in every game.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I'd think:

Isaac
Isaac (Alt)
Matthew
Felix
Djinn (Venus, Mars, Mercury & Jupiter)
Saturos & Menardi
Venus Lighthouse (Stage)
Garet
Jenna
Alex
Kraden
The Wise One
Sveta
Judgment

Even Kraden's a bit questionable, but I think at least we'd get all the "main" characters, and all characters who appeared in every game.

I guess this list is pretty good. Although it doesn't feel right leaving Ivan and Mia out, considering they were part of the original four.

I'd add Ivan and Mia back on to the trophy list.

Also I intentionally left Judgement out under the belief that the 3DS version won't have final smash trophies.
Also I think Karis would make more sense than Sveta, as cool as Sveta is....
....and actually I think Fusion Dragon would make sense if it appeared as a boss.

(I guess I wasn't that happy with your list. )

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

So let's say Isaac arrives as character dlc. What (regular) Golden Sun trophies would you like to see on the 3DS version? (It would get the most Golden Sun trophies) This would be my choice:

Isaac
Isaac (Alt)
Matthew
Felix
Djinn (Venus, Mars, Mercury & Jupiter)
Saturos & Menardi
Venus Lighthouse (Stage)
Garet
Ivan
Mia
Jenna
Alex
Karis
Tyrell
Kraden
The Wise One
Sveta
Karst & Agatio
Fusion Dragon
Golden Sun enemy (if it got a smash run enemy)
Crystallux

I tried to keep the number as low as possible, I realise Golden Sun isn't a series that would get tons of trophies. 21 is probably still a lot....you could maybe cut out some of the party members.

I'd think:

Isaac
Isaac (Alt)
Matthew
Felix
Djinn (Venus, Mars, Mercury & Jupiter)
Saturos & Menardi
Venus Lighthouse (Stage)
Garet
Jenna
Alex
Kraden
The Wise One
Sveta
Judgment

Even Kraden's a bit questionable, but I think at least we'd get all the "main" characters, and all characters who appeared in every game.

You both forgot Isaac (Dark Dawn)

 

[JaidynReiman]

I guess this list is pretty good. Although it doesn't feel right leaving Ivan and Mia out, considering they were part of the original four.

I'd add Ivan and Mia back on to the trophy list.

Also I intentionally left Judgement out under the belief that the 3DS version won't have final smash trophies.
Also I think Karis would make more sense than Sveta, as cool as Sveta is....
....and actually I think Fusion Dragon would make sense if it appeared as a boss.

(I guess I wasn't that happy with your list. )

I just always heard that Sveta is arguably the most important character to Dark Dawn. I thought about keeping Ivan and Mia, but I wasn't quite sure on that. I figured, if I didn't include every playable character from GS2/3, why include every character from GS1/2? Although it could be argued because they appear in two games each.

You both forgot Isaac (Dark Dawn)

Ah, crap, right. Unless Isaac IS based on Dark Dawn. :D

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Ah, crap, right. Unless Isaac IS based on Dark Dawn. :D

In that case, you forgot Isaac (Classic) ^_^

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I honestly find it difficult cutting the trophy list smaller than about 14-16.

Isaac
Isaac (Alt)
Matthew
Felix
Djinn (Venus, Mars, Mercury & Jupiter)
Saturos & Menardi
Venus Lighthouse (Stage)

In my opinion, the above trophies are necessary and untouchable.

Then we have:

Garet
Ivan
Mia
Jenna
Kraden
The Wise One
Alex
Adult Isaac
Karis OR Sveta
Fusion Dragon (Final boss of the first game, could be a stage boss)

That's already cutting down on my original list.

 

[JohnnySparkxs]

Here is my big trophy list:

-Isaac;
-Isaac (alt.);
-Matthew;
-Felix;
-Djinn (Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Mercury);
-Venus Lighthouse (stage);
-Garet;
-Ivan;
-Mia;
-Jenna;
-Sheba;
-Piers;
-Alex;
-Saturos & Menardi;
-Karts & Agatio;
-Kraden;
-Tyrell;
-Karis;
-Rief;
-Himi;
-Eoleo;
-Sveta;
-Amiti
-Blados & Chalis;
-The Wise One.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Here comes the debate:

Which one is best for Smash? Classic Isaac, Dark Dawn Isaac or Matthew?

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Here comes the debate:

Which one is best for Smash? Classic Isaac, Dark Dawn Isaac or Matthew?

I don't think it'll be much of a debate.

Classic Isaac of course. He's the most iconic.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I don't think it'll be much of a debate.

Classic Isaac of course. He's the most iconic.

What about DD Isaac? He's recent and he looks awesome! It's still the iconic GS mascot we know and love, but older, so more mature and, of course, most likely more powerful.

Matthew is Isaac's son and a worthy successor in both style and abilities (he even has Isaac's yellow scarf).

I agree Classic Issac is the most iconic, by the way, and have nothing against its appearance, I just think Sakurai will touch the more recent aspects of GS.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I honestly find it difficult cutting the trophy list smaller than about 14-16.

Isaac
Isaac (Alt)
Matthew
Felix
Djinn (Venus, Mars, Mercury & Jupiter)
Saturos & Menardi
Venus Lighthouse (Stage)

In my opinion, the above trophies are necessary and untouchable.

Were Saturos & Menardi recurring characters in the GS franchise.
If not, I wouldn't see them as a necessity.

 

[JohnnySparkxs]

Here comes the debate:

Which one is best for Smash? Classic Isaac, Dark Dawn Isaac or Matthew?

Classic Isaac and Matthew can be an alt.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Were Saturos & Menardi recurring characters in the GS franchise.
If not, I wouldn't see them as a necessity.

They were the first major Golden Sun antagonists. Even though they didn't appear past the first game (They had a good reason for that) they had a notable impact on the storyline of The Lost Age. They're ABSOLUTELY necessary.

 

[JohnnySparkxs]

They were the first major Golden Sun antagonists. Even though they didn't appear past the first game (They had a good reason for that) they had a notable impact on the storyline of The Lost Age. They're ABSOLUTELY necessary.

And they were refered several times in Dark Dawn and appeared in those books that you could collect, so yeah, they are the most iconic villians of GS.

 

[BluePikmin11]

IMO the impact they had on the story wouldn't affect the decision whether or not they make a trophy of them anyway.

 

[Felix the Slayer]

Here comes the debate:

Which one is best for Smash? Classic Isaac, Dark Dawn Isaac or Matthew?

Have the default be classic Isaac and have older Isaac be alt. skin or vice versa.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

IMO the impact they had on the story wouldn't affect the decision whether or not they make a trophy of them anyway.

So how important they are to Golden Sun wouldn't affect whether or not they got a trophy? Ok.....

They're the most iconic Golden Sun villains. Satisfied?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Have the default be classic Isaac and have older Isaac be alt. skin or vice versa.

A.Older Ossac is taller so there would be differences and either skin would be innacurate if was resized
B.What about Matthew?

 

[BluePikmin11]

So how important they are to Golden Sun wouldn't affect whether or not they got a trophy? Ok.....

They're the most iconic Golden Sun villains. Satisfied?

Ehh fair enough I guess.

 

[Felix the Slayer]

A.Older Ossac is taller so there would be differences and either skin would be innacurate if was resized
B.What about Matthew?

Well if we want Matthew as an alt. skin I think it's a no brainer for them to give us classic Isaac because we'd have the same problem you stated in A.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Well if we want Matthew as an alt. skin I think it's a no brainer for them to give us classic Isaac because we'd have the same problem you stated in A.

Then I guess it's the crazy idea: Matthew and DD Isaac as a clone...... (Your reaction will determine whether or not I was kidding)

 

[ChronoBound]

One thing I am impressed by with the Isaac fanbase is how it has lasted for so long at this size. Golden Sun's heyday was the GBA era, and while it did receive a new installment about four years ago, it fell under the radar, its basically the GBA games for what Golden Sun was popular for.

 

[udime123]

I'm dissapointed that he didn't get in. Let's hope he's a DLC character!

 

[something_good]

If this happens my dreams will be a reality.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I don't think it'll be much of a debate.

Classic Isaac of course. He's the most iconic.

Cannot be debated, at least not with anything I've read in this forum before, or can conceive of myself.
Newness is irrelevant here. It didn't serve Pacman's costume and it didn't help Chrom over Marth- they arent random example's, either, they fit fluidly with this particular statement at hand.

Isaac has even been in SSB already, in his classic form

 

[N3ON]

It'd be a different story if adult Isaac played a role greater than NPC at the beginning of one game, or if classic Isaac wasn't a playable protagonist in two games with his general design being the inspiration for the protagonist of the third, but as it is it's pretty clear which version is pretty much the face of the series.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

One thing I am impressed by with the Isaac fanbase is how it has lasted for so long at this size. Golden Sun's heyday was the GBA era, and while it did receive a new installment about four years ago, it fell under the radar, its basically the GBA games for what Golden Sun was popular for.

There's a lot of love out there for Golden Sun.

The way I see it, someone deserving of a place on the roster isn't so easily forgotten.

 

[JohnnySparkxs]

Also, with young Isaac, you could easily have Matthew as an alt, because they are pratically the same, so there wouldn't be any height, weight, strenght, etc. conflicts. The only differences would be a slightly difference on the hair style and on the clothing. Also, Isaac could have outfit variations for Garet, Ivan and Mia, while Matthew would have for Tyrell, Karis and Rief.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The way I see it, someone deserving of a place on the roster isn't so easily forgotten.

Guess that explains why DHD is in Smash 4.

Also, with young Isaac, you could easily have Matthew as an alt, because they are pratically the same, so there wouldn't be any height, weight, strenght, etc. conflicts. The only differences would be a slightly difference on the hair style and on the clothing. Also, Isaac could have outfit variations for Garet, Ivan and Mia, while Matthew would have for Tyrell, Karis and Rief.

I'd be surprised to see Sakurai using either character as an alt, as it means remaking another character entirely, despite simply being an alternate skin, which means it'll be longer to finish.

So, if classic Isaac makes the cut, his palette swaps should consist of the playable characters from the first two games, and if it is Matthew, he would get the playables from Dark Dawm

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Guess that explains why DHD is in Smash 4.

Duck Hunt wasn't forgotten though. It's seen as a classic retro game.

Maybe the Smash fanbase wasn't raving for Duck Hunt Dog to be included, but that's not the same as being forgotten.

I wouldn't really count the WTF retros though. They seem like they follow a different criteria to the norm.

 

[Deleted member]

Were Saturos & Menardi recurring characters in the GS franchise.
If not, I wouldn't see them as a necessity.

They weren't recurring characters, considering that at the end of the first game...

Spoiler

They came down with a severe case of dying.

But, they factor a whole lot into the story in terms of how the ramifications of their actions spurned on many elements of how everything boiled down, including how they caused the major storm (though whether or not they sprung the Sol Sanctum trap is unclear, all that matters was that they were the only two survivors), and the aftermath of the Venus Lighthouse battle being Karst's motivation for revenge. Also, Dark Dawn mentioned them a lot in the Sun Saga books (a little refresher guide to the first two games from Isaac's perspective) and their faces were part of some obstacles in the Adept Training Grounds course.

I honestly find it difficult cutting the trophy list smaller than about 14-16.

Isaac
Isaac (Alt)
Matthew
Felix
Djinn (Venus, Mars, Mercury & Jupiter)
Saturos & Menardi
Venus Lighthouse (Stage)

In my opinion, the above trophies are necessary and untouchable.

Then we have:

Garet
Ivan
Mia
Jenna
Kraden
The Wise One
Alex
Adult Isaac
Karis OR Sveta
Fusion Dragon (Final boss of the first game, could be a stage boss)

That's already cutting down on my original list.

Umm... that sounds awesome, and I'd love for it to happen, but personally, I'd be happy with just 8 on the Wii U and around 12 on the 3DS. I say "8" because the Trophy Case function may handicap a few games, and in Golden Sun's instance, they might just end up bunching all three games into one category. So, here's how I'd do them, and bear in mind that all 8 of the Wii U trophies would be in the 3DS version.

*Isaac
*Isaac All-Star (Alternate in 3DS, Final Smash in Wii U)
*Felix
*Matthew
*Jenna
*Garet
*Djinn
*Venus Lighthouse (to explain to the uninitated why a lighthouse factored so much into the story of the games)

And, for the 3DS...

*Kraden
*Adult Isaac
*Saturos & Menardi
*Smash Run enemy OR Sveta

Artwork has been done for every character, and Camelot would be more than happy to help out in designing the figures. Heck, even Venus Lighthouse wouldn't be that hard, considering how it's in the title screen of The Lost Age.

Also, considering today's PoTD is about Shulk & Lucina getting alts from party members (though while I said "no" on playing Xenoblade... kinda disappointed that

Spoiler

Mecha Body Fiora

isn't one of his palette alts), I can see Isaac's alts being based off of his partners (Orange for Garet, Green for Ivan, and Light Blue for Mia), although whether or not he gets eight slots, or Matthew takes four of them (which'd be for Karis, Tyrell, and Rief), remains to be seen.

 

[JohnnySparkxs]

I go for Isaac having 4 palette swaps (Isaac, Garet, Ivan and Mia) and Matthew having another four (Matthew, Tyrell, Karis and Rief) and by adding two characters in the same slot, people won't start b*tching like they did with Pit and Dark Pit (not that I agree that much with Sakurai's decision, but ok, just let it be).

Also, characters that play the same (Olimar and Alph) share the same spot and that can be applied to Isaac and Matthew, since in their games, their base stats are pratically the same, so I don't see the need to add more than one slot for father and son.

Felix on the other hand, could easily take a clone spot and his alts would be his party, Saturos, Menardi, Karst and Agatio. Comparatively to Isaac/ Matthew, he would be stronger, but slower, like their base stat comparasion in the original Golden Sun games, so they would fit pretty well and would still play according to their stats.

Also, the motive why I keep separating Felix from Isaac/ Matthew is that clones were made because characters that would be alts have some slight different mechanics and aren't as effort or time-consuming like creating original characters. (Example: Dark Pit is slower, but stronget than Pit and Lucina's power is spread all across the blade, while Marth's is more focused on the tip of the sword).