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Isaac for DLC - One day. Some day. Golden Sunday.

TeamFlareZakk

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I don't think Camelot did a terrible job with Dark Dawn, although I do think going forward they need to make the series more modern. They're kinda caught with their pants down these days because Monolith Soft is doing more or less what they do but better.

I wouldn't mind seeing Camelot and Monolith Soft working together on a new Golden Sun game.
You mean the creators of what seems to be Golden Sun's arch enemy that created Xenoblade, right?

You know what, for what they're doing with Xenoblade, I would rather just be able to create my main Adept in Golden Sun 4 just like what they're doing with Xenoblade now, Isaac would be the mascot for games like Super Smash Bros, but still I hate Matthew, just have those guys join up later on as a secondary unit, and forget about characters like Himi, Eoleo, Sveta, and Rief, I don't ever want to see these butt-heads ever again, and just have Alex be the antagonist by himself, its time, I don't want another set of idiotics like Blados and Chalis, at least Agatio and Karst reminded me how cool Saturos and Menardi were as villains, but these two were just awful.

I don't know, I'm getting a feeling we might not see a Golden Sun character nor a Xenoblade character oh well if Ghirahim gets in, I'll just pretend blue Ghirahim is Saturos and green Ganondorf can be Agatio, I guess blue Link will have to be Isaac.
 

GM_3826

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...You wanna know the real reason Golden Sun: Dark Dawn was so bad?
Alright. Hear me out.
When the creator came up with the idea,
HE WAS DRUNK.
 

Sabrewulf238

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I've never heard the bolded part before. Source?
Ah I knew that would be asked...

I've seen it mentioned often and I'm sure I saw a source for it at one point. I think it was something said around the time smash 4 was announced.

I'll look into finding a source.
 

Leafeon523

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...You wanna know the real reason Golden Sun: Dark Dawn was so bad?
Alright. Hear me out.
Was Dark Dawn really that bad? I picked it up the other day, and while it's the first GS game I've played, and I'm really enjoying it. Yet people on here treat it like it's Sonic 06 or something. What's wrong with it?
 
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GM_3826

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Was Dark Dawn really that bad? I picked it up the other day, and while it's the first GS game I've played, and I'm really enjoying it. Yet people on here treat it like it's Sonic 06 or something. What's wrong with it?
I actually was making a joke.
If you had opened the spoiler, you may have got it.
But, no, seriously, the real reason was that the plot came completely out of left-field. It explicitly felt like what someone who was drunk would come up with: And Tada, it was!
TVTropes (Don't open the links) said:
Whereas previous games were about saving the world from dangerous magic returning to it, Dark Dawn is about the old heroes forcing their kids to go on a dangerous adventure to take the feather from a giant god-bird to fix a hang-glider they need to explore the volcano where God used to live. Somehow, the whole thing concludes on a cliffhanger.
Of course, it also basically sunk an armada of ships in a super shipping-heavy fandom, so there's that, as well.
Source:http://goldensunwiki.net/Takahashi_Brothers
You can find the Nintendo Power issue somewhere. It's not like it's been lost in the abyss of space and time.
 
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N3ON

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Over time things that were good start to be seen as great and things that weren't fantastic start to be seen as downright horrible. Opinions get exaggerated, especially because a lot of people just follow ones they hear instead of making informed ones on their own. No, Dark Dawn wasn't phenomenal, it was fairly average to mediocre and can't compare to the first two, but it wasn't so abhorrently awful as people make it out to be.

I'd definitely say it's still worth playing if you're a GS fan, just don't expect the same level of pedigree as the originals.
 

FlareHabanero

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I'm crawling out of the wood works just to make this loud and clear.
You mean the creators of what seems to be Golden Sun's arch enemy that created Xenoblade, right?
There was never intentions for Monolith Soft to replace anything whatsoever. That company is simply there to make video games like any other company, with the main motivation fueling it being trying to create that "epic sci-fi RPG" the likes of Takahashi wanted to make but kept getting shafted for one reason or another.
 

N3ON

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That's an odd thing to crawl out of the wood works for, I don't think anyone was insinuating that there was.
 

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Was Dark Dawn really that bad? I picked it up the other day, and while it's the first GS game I've played, and I'm really enjoying it. Yet people on here treat it like it's Sonic 06 or something. What's wrong with it?
Haha, no, that's far from the case!

Dark Dawn is really good.
I had my issues with it (3D art style), but it felt very Golden Sun-ny to me.

Perhaps another factor could be that introducing 8 characters made me care a bit less for them. As opposed to how Golden Sun (GBA) did, where they introduced and developed 4 characters mainly, then throughout the adventure they started presenting new characters that were not on your side, and others that seemed neutral, and I couldn't help wanting to know more about them.
Then Golden Sun TLA comes in, and develops these "extras" further, and by that time, I'm now familiar with them all.

Maybe Dark Dawn was a bit too greedy in this regard? I have to play it again, my opinion tends to change (usually for the better) on my 2nd playthrough. :D
 

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Dark Dawn is a good game. It just isn't a worthy successor to Golden Sun.

They tried to change too much, too fast. They added in a bunch of new lore and backstory pieces which are at direct odds with what we already had. They stuck to some formulae that they really needed to move past, and they made a couple really bad design choices (multiple points of no return).

It's a good game, and almost anyone who has played it as their first Golden Sun will tell you that. But it does not fit in well with the rest of the series, nor does it execute its concepts as well. It is tied too heavily to the original games to be ignored, yet differentiates itself too much to be a successful sequel.

This is what I call "Chrono Cross syndrome".
 

NonSpecificGuy

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Over time things that were good start to be seen as great and things that weren't fantastic start to be seen as downright horrible. Opinions get exaggerated, especially because a lot of people just follow ones they hear instead of making informed ones on their own. No, Dark Dawn wasn't phenomenal, it was fairly average to mediocre and can't compare to the first two, but it wasn't so abhorrently awful as people make it out to be.

I'd definitely say it's still worth playing if you're a GS fan, just don't expect the same level of pedigree as the originals.
This statement is especially true with the Zelda series, as well as Super Mario Sunshine.
But, I never found Dark Dawn as boring or even bad it was just set up wierd, I got over it halfway through though.
 

Sabrewulf238

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Was Dark Dawn really that bad? I picked it up the other day, and while it's the first GS game I've played, and I'm really enjoying it. Yet people on here treat it like it's Sonic 06 or something. What's wrong with it?
I think people exaggerate a lot. I found it to be an enjoyable game overall.

It's just when compared to the first two it's not as strong.
 

IceBreakerXY

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Going back to Issac.I have this feeling that if we get Shulk were not getting Issac.Or if we get Issac or not getting Shulk.I don't know why but i just have that feeling
 

continuityOfficer

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Going back to Issac.I have this feeling that if we get Shulk were not getting Issac.Or if we get Issac or not getting Shulk.I don't know why but i just have that feeling
I've never played Golden Sun, but I have played Xenoblade, and am fairly active on the Shulk thread. Point is, I've talked with a friend who has played Isaac, and we got in an argument about what would happen if either got in. eventually we came to the decision that if Shulk or Isaac would be able to get in spite Robin, then there is no reason all 3 couldn't theoretically be in.
 

Zem-raj

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Whilst I haven't played any Golden Sun games yet (please don't hurt me D: ), Isaac looks like a cool character, so add me to the list of supporters for Isaac o/

Since they haven't show him as an Assist Trophy yet (thankfully), he still has a chance. Hopefully this is the time that he's playable.
 

Arteen

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Going back to Issac.I have this feeling that if we get Shulk were not getting Issac.Or if we get Issac or not getting Shulk.I don't know why but i just have that feeling
I sort of get that too. Lots of folks have brought up the whole "blonde RPG guy with sword" thing, but for me it's not that.

Xenoblade is one of Nintendo's hot new properties, while Golden Sun's popularity stems almost entirely from the "millennial" era; Dark Dawn is actually a more recent release than Xenoblade Chronicles, but it got such an underwhelming reception. Every newcomer so far has had pretty major game releases recently. Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, Rosalina, Little Mac, Greninja, Miis, Palutena, Lucina and Robin all have a lot of recent, high profile games, but we haven't seen anyone from that millennial period where franchises like Golden Sun, Advance Wars, Custom Robo and Starfy had their greatest popularity.

While we could conceivably have both, I feel like we're running out of newcomers at this point.
 
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Sabrewulf238

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I gave up hope for Robin when it felt like Chrom had it on the bag.

So I won't make the same mistake for Isaac.

Our "gut feelings" count for absolutely nothing, especially when something that felt like fact (gematsu) ended up being wrong.
 

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I gave up hope for Robin when it felt like Chrom had it on the bag.

So I won't make the same mistake for Isaac.

Our "gut feelings" count for absolutely nothing, especially when something that felt like fact (gematsu) ended up being wrong.
Lol, my "gut feeling" is that Isaac IS playable. My "gut feeling" was also that Robin was playable, and Chrom was somehow mistaken on the leak. I didn't lose all hope for Robin, although I did say Chrom was more likely than Robin (before E3 and Gematsu's first half turning out correct, I fully believed Robin would get in over Chrom, especially after Ike's reveal).
 

N3ON

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Going back to Issac.I have this feeling that if we get Shulk were not getting Issac.Or if we get Issac or not getting Shulk.I don't know why but i just have that feeling
If any character is closest to Isaac in concept it'd be Robin, not Shulk. But even Robin and Isaac could (and hypothetically would) have different playstyles.

All Isaac and Shulk have in common is surface similarities, such as genre of game (though one is turn-based and the other more action-oriented), hair colour, and weaponry (though their swords and playstyles are very different).
 

Sabrewulf238

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If anything I would say Isaac shares more similarities with Ness and Lucas. Both have psychic based powers, both come from turn based rpgs and both come from series that have a strong cult following.
 

N3ON

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Depends if you're looking at similarities in playstyle or similarities in general...

Because technically even a character like Mewtwo shares similarities with Isaac: turn-based RPG characters with psychic and ground abilities, high Smash popularity with all "main" appearances being on portables.


But Robin is probably closest to Isaac in terms of conceptual playstyle, mixing magic and sword-wielding. Not to mention Robin does technically summon someone as part of his FS.
 

Skyblade12

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But Robin is probably closest to Isaac in terms of conceptual playstyle, mixing magic and sword-wielding. Not to mention Robin does technically summon someone as part of his FS.
Let's also not forget the tome usage thing. It is the closest thing I can think of to Djinn usage. Powerful attacks that can only be used so many times before being depleted until they reset.
 

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Let's also not forget the tome usage thing. It is the closest thing I can think of to Djinn usage. Powerful attacks that can only be used so many times before being depleted until they reset.
I've always thought than in Smash, Isaac would have access to four Djinn--one of each element. Just like in his game, whilst the Djinn are "set", Isaac will have superior stats. But when he unleashes a Djinni, his stats will be lowered. After he uses said Djinni, he could either immediately reset the Djinni, or use it to perform a powerful summon attack. If he uses a summon, it will be a while before he is able to use that particular Djinni again.

If Isaac is in the game, I am pretty sure the Djinn will be incorporated somehow, as it would undoubtedly make Isaac even more unique. In mine opinion, it would be a disservice to Isaac NOT to incorporate the Djinn, as it would arguably just make him another generic magick user in Smash.
 
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JaidynReiman

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I've always thought than in Smash, Isaac would have access to four Djinn--one of each element. Just like in his game, whilst the Djinn are "set", Isaac will have superior stats. But when he unleashes a Djinni, his stats will be lowered. After he uses said Djinni, he could either immediately reset the Djinni, or use it to perform a powerful summon attack. If he uses a summon, it will be a while before he is able to use that particular Djinni again.

If Isaac is in the game, I am pretty sure the Djinn will be incorporated somehow, as it would undoubtedly make Isaac even more unique. In mine opinion, it would be a disservice to Isaac NOT to incorporate the Djinn, as it would arguably just make him another generic magick user in Smash.
I agree. For the most unique setup, Isaac should use Djinn for his specials, and Psynergy for all his standards. I don't necessarily believe he NEEDS to use a Djinn of all types, though. One option is to just have him use three different Earth djinn and a Summon.
 

IceBreakerXY

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The Way i see it is that Shulk and issac both use swords.Something i think we have to many of in the first place but wouldn't mind both.The thing is Issac would of been a shoe in if it wasn't for Robin.true they could make Issac play different enough from robin were he's unique.I just don't think sakurai would pit in the effort(lucina) but if he did he could be amazing.Then we have shulk There's a lot of things who can do with shulk.Make him a plain odd swordsman like ike.A guy like Link were he uses his items and his sword.Or something with his magic?I haven't played Xenoblade so forgive me.I personally would want issac over shulk but something tells me were getting shulk because he's a new ip.While both are possible to get both and i love both.I just think if we get issac there's no need for shulk.If we get Shulk there's no neeed for issac
 

N3ON

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If it were only fictional that'd be one thing, but Isaac is a real life, actual and not uncommon name... I don't understand why it's misspelled so frequently. :confused:

The Way i see it is that Shulk and issac both use swords.Something i think we have to many of in the first place but wouldn't mind both.The thing is Issac would of been a shoe in if it wasn't for Robin.true they could make Issac play different enough from robin were he's unique.I just don't think sakurai would pit in the effort(lucina) but if he did he could be amazing.Then we have shulk There's a lot of things who can do with shulk.Make him a plain odd swordsman like ike.A guy like Link were he uses his items and his sword.Or something with his magic?I haven't played Xenoblade so forgive me.I personally would want issac over shulk but something tells me were getting shulk because he's a new ip.While both are possible to get both and i love both.I just think if we get issac there's no need for shulk.If we get Shulk there's no neeed for issac
Sounds to me like you don't know that much about Shulk or Isaac if you think the inclusion of one puts the other into obsolescence.

Let's also not forget the tome usage thing. It is the closest thing I can think of to Djinn usage. Powerful attacks that can only be used so many times before being depleted until they reset.
That's true too.
 

Morbi

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If it were only fictional that'd be one thing, but Isaac is a real life, actual and not uncommon name... I don't understand why it's misspelled so frequently. :confused:


Sounds to me like you don't know that much about Shulk or Isaac if you think the inclusion of one puts the other into obsolescence.


That's true too.
"Isaac" is not the objective spelling, there are many ways to spell the name and none of them are incorrect.

I would assert that people misspell "Isaac" as they have not played the game; therefore, they do not attribute the proper spelling to his character.
 

N3ON

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"Isaac" is not the objective spelling, there are many ways to spell the name and none of them are incorrect.
Isaac is an obviously an objective spelling. How to spell a name isn't subjective even if there are multiple ways. If someone is named Isaac, that's how to spell it, even if someone else's name is Isaak. The Isaac in question here, and many Isaacs in real life spell it I-S-A-A-C.

Plus, Issac is not a name, or if it is, very very uncommon.

I would assert that people misspell "Isaac" as they have not played the game; therefore, they do not attribute the proper spelling to his character.
I would assert that there are many characters discussed here from games some people have not played, yet they usually are able to spell those names correctly. Plus, the proper spelling for Isaac is right in the title.

That's some faulty logic on your part.
 

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I would assert that there are many characters discussed here from games some people have not played, yet they usually are able to spell those names correctly.
Spell, yes. Pronounce, no.

If I hear one more "Chrome"...



If you had to pick one summon to give to Isaac as his Final Smash, which would it be? My vote goes to Catastrophe. Best looking sprite work on the GBA.
 

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Spell, yes. Pronounce, no.

If I hear one more "Chrome"...



If you had to pick one summon to give to Isaac as his Final Smash, which would it be? My vote goes to Catastrophe. Best looking sprite work on the GBA.
Judgment hands down. I even imagine in my mind that Isaac's reveal will show a shadowy figure raise an unknown weapon and then Judgment appears to blast away the foes before revealing Isaac fully.
 

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Isaac is an obviously an objective spelling. How to spell a name isn't subjective even if there are multiple ways. If someone is named Isaac, that's how to spell it, even if someone else's name is Isaak. The Isaac in question here, and many Isaacs in real life spell it I-S-A-A-C.

Plus, Issac is not a name, or if it is, very very uncommon.


I would assert that there are many characters discussed here from games some people have not played, yet they usually are able to spell those names correctly. Plus, the proper spelling for Isaac is right in the title.

That's some faulty logic on your part.
Of course; however, as there are multiple accepted spellings of Isaac, the confusion is reasonable. If there were an objective spelling of the word, such as Mario (I believe that is the only spelling of the name) or Bob, the mistake would be unacceptable. If they had played the game, it would be obvious as to which variant to use. For instance, I have not played the game, I used to spell it, "Issac" as that is the spelling I am more accustomed to.
 

N3ON

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Of course; however, as there are multiple accepted spellings of Isaac, the confusion is reasonable. If there were an objective spelling of the word, such as Mario (I believe that is the only spelling of the name) or Bob, the mistake would be unacceptable. If they had played the game, it would be obvious as to which variant to use. For instance, I have not played the game, I used to spell it, "Issac" as that is the spelling I am more accustomed to.
I wouldn't say so, the name Issac is seldom if ever used, I can't imagine it stemmed from anything other than a misspelling in this case. It's not like John or Jon where both are reasonably common. Why it's become as widespread as it has confuses me, as... Isaac is just a much more commonly used spelling in comparison, plus it's a fairly standard name as opposed to the other.

I'd wager most incorrect spellings of Isaac on here are due to people not knowing how to spell Isaac, not because of some person named Issac they've confused this Isaac's spelling with. But why they don't know how to spell Isaac when they can spell Palutena or Ghirahim or Zoroark kinda perplexes me. :/
 

Arteen

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I'd prefer if Isaac didn't have a djinni-based moveset and instead had a solid, gimmick-free one. I'd love him either way, but I prefer less complex characters.

What I love about Isaac's Venus psynergy is that it has a physical, distinct form that's easily identifiable from the games. Most of the moves of other characters with magical/elemental powers feel generic. Stuff like Zelda's generic sparkles or Ganondorf's generic darkness. Robin's moves are straight out of his games, but they're all generic electric, fire, wind and darkness spells in the first place.

Very little of Isaac's Venus psynergy can be considered generic. Punji, Nettle, Growth, Gaia, Rockfall, Spire, Ragnarok and all of his glove abiliities are all easily identifiable. They also feel a lot more distinct than stuff like a few fire effects added to Roy's sword or sparkles added to Zelda's kicks. And giving him a consistent Venus theme instead of a multi-element theme makes him stand out from Robin.
 

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I however would kinda like for Isaac to have light status alterations.

Stuff like...
Earth Djinni: = Damage Normal, Defense Normal, Speed Normal (Default settings)
Fire Djinni = Damage High, Defense Normal, Speed Low.
Water Djinni = Damage Low, Defense High, Speed Normal
Wind Djinni = Damage Normal, Defense Low, Speed High

Maybe something like after using elemetnal Djinni of the same type 3 times in a row will cause you to turn into said elemental stat changes.
That would certainly make Isaac one of my Top 3 mains for sure. :)

His normals however will all reflect EARTH based magic. But for each Special, it'd be neat to have:

B: Venus (Move)
-Similar to his AT version, except it covers one "Block" distance. (Measuring in Stage Builder blocks) It not only pushes characters back, but also blocks projectiles for 2 seconds. Great for edgeguarding.


Up+B: Jupiter (Whirlwind)
-Similar to Metaknight's neutral B, except once you input the direction in which the whirlwind travels, you can't go back. It can suck in opponents.


Tilt+B: Mars (Fireball)
-If you tap it, it's a little explosive blast ahead. If you charge it, it engulfs opponents PK Fire style.


Down+B: Mercury (Douse)
-Similar to Pikachu's Down B, except with water, and one "block" ahead of you, instead of on top of you.
 
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BSTCloud

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Okay, we should REALLY change the topic now so people don't confuse Isaac with Issac, this is full of users supporting the wrong character :troll:
 
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Raetah

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Well, during this time, im not posting much here...

But i read some posts about Dark Dawn and even if this is already in previous pages of the thread. I think that is good time to post it again. Personally i dont suggest to play Dark Dawn before GBA games.

Summary of Dark Dawn:
-Gameplay: almost identical to the old games, but way more easier. Featuring a really incomode menu, when Golden Sun GBA menu was practical and effective. On top of that, points of no return, that dont allow you to complete 100%
-Graphics: dont follow the original aesthetics of the original games.
-Sound: Some bad sound effects, Soundtrack not as great as in the original games with less variety.

Here is a response that i got of another follower of Golden Sun series about my complains of DD:

"Graphical issues aren't that it's cartoony. The originals were as well. The issue is the tone and aesthetic - the original games were quite bright with colors and had this "pop" to them, so to speak. They also had amazing particle effects in battle, and it was quite great to look at. That's all but gone, though. Sure, DD has great battle models and really cool GUI icons, but the actual GUI layout, the spell effects, and the overworld just... they don't look nearly as good, clean, and crisp. Instead, they have this "watered down" feel, the GUI layout is just plain horrible (XMB, anyone?), and the battle effects... well, they just don't have the flair the particle effect-heavy first games had. To top it off, the sound effects in the game were absolutely horrible. All and all, it betrays the original aesthetics of the game, which is why people didn't like that.

Musically, Motoi Sakuraba is hit and miss. The original GS games were mostly a hit, though a couple tracks were kind of "meh". However, DD was somewhat even on the hit and miss spectrum - for every great song there was another that was either "Meh" or "uggh...". I kindly point in the direction of Mountain Roc Rising and the Final Battle Themes (which were horrible) and contrast with the Final Dungeon and Endless Wall themes (which were awesome). Hell, even within songs you have instances of great and bad music. The Tuaparang Battle Theme has a great chorus, but the rest of the song kind of sucks.

The relative ease of the game is three-fold. First is bad pacing. You just get access to djinn much too quickly, and thus your power multiplies far past anything the enemies can keep up with. Second is bad growth rates. Enemies just give too much experience, so that additive growth in combination with the multiplier growth that comes with djinn acquisition compounds the problem. Third is weak enemies. Some bosses can't even survive a single round (4/5 turns) of the Djinn Build/Summon tactic, which usually takes them down in two (8-10 turns).

As for multiplayer... yeah, that did kind of suck, but sit down and think about this for a second... would you really want multiplayer for Dark Dawn? Everyone has max speed thanks to Zol Gear, has an unleash setup utilizing Centurian rushes, etc... It doesn't make for very much fun when you have a game as broken as DD's battle system. Perhaps we're better off not having it than having them butcher it too.

Finally, like it or not, DD is a part of GS. You can't just throw it into fanon discontinuity, because the next game will likely have direct references to the events in this one. It's like Suikoden IV or Battle Network 4 - they're actually pretty bad games, but they're still a part of the franchise, and the franchise as a whole, despite suffering through the game, may even have benefited by learning what not to do. The fundaments are here to stay, but since the game never bothered to define them, we have the freedom to define them how we please until it's proven otherwise. So for now, perhaps you can embrace the Aspect Approach that I champion. This lets you use the stuff from Dark Dawn without any of that annoying lore-breaking stuff."


But the worst, and the reason of why i dislike Dark Dawn, is for its terrible plot, some terrible characters, history is way too much slow-paced at the begginning with a tone of text that was not necessary at all. They filled the game with things that did not existed at all in the first games and Dark Dawn takes places just 30 years after the events of the first game, if those 30 years were 300 instead, i would not complain at all for this. But the game overrall does not feel like a sequel.

Things that i like of Golden Sun Dark Dawn:
-The new system of psynergy outside of battle was great, sadly the game does not take profit of that as much as it could, but well.
-Djinn individuals design that was a great improve in the series.
-Ancient Devil, it was not hard, but i liked the concept of the boss.
-Crystallux, that was really funny, indeed.
-Sveta, the most unique character of Golden Sun in gameplay.

And this was the best thing of Dark Dawn:
 

TeamFlareZakk

Making Super Smash Bros a more beautiful world!
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I just noticed something, blue Ghirahim probably will look a lot like Saturos, this would make a perfect rival for Isaac.
 
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Altais

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I always thought it would be cool to have Saturos as an alternate skin for Marth--which could work, since both characters have a similar fighting stance.

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Or, they could make Saturos into the new Roy. Though, that's probably pushing it.
 

Skyblade12

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I need to be on the supporter list for this guy. He's definitely my most wanted inclusion.
 
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