Yoshi'stheBombers7
Smash Journeyman
We are actually speculating that this will cause some interesting strategies, and will help him.
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Is Yoshi Better In Melee or Brawl?
- Thread starter Bobhuffman
- Start date
Layupfreak
Smash Ace
oh ok cool!
Yoshi'stheBombers7
Smash Journeyman
Why? Although Yoshi looks buffed, how can you say that for sure? And, for what reasons?
Yosher
Smash Ace
Maybe because he LOOKS buffed, but we still can't be sure. 
Yoshi'stheBombers7
Smash Journeyman
sonic 4 eva
Smash Apprentice
No yoshi is said to be better than ever and tottlay upgraded.
Yoshi'stheBombers7
Smash Journeyman
I hate to say this, but unfortunately, that's not entirely true...
Yosher
Smash Ace
Yeah, he wasn't exactly high-tier material in Melee either. Let's hope he is in Brawl then.
Yoshi'stheBombers7
Smash Journeyman
Positive comments!
Yoshi'stheBombers7
Smash Journeyman
Wow, I've never seen a shot of that. Yea, that's REALLY big.
Look at that range buff on his down tilt!
Yoshi'stheBombers7
Smash Journeyman
??????????
bigman40
Smash Master
From every vid i've seen with yoshi, the range is buffed on almost every atk.
(Finally!!! I can log on with out taking an hr for the forum to load!!)
(Finally!!! I can log on with out taking an hr for the forum to load!!)
Yoshi'stheBombers7
Smash Journeyman
YESH! I kinda thought the same thing too.
I used to click for something on Smash Boards, then open up a new Smash boards, click something, then repeat the process multiple times, go watch a Youtube video, come back to the first opened Smash Boards, and it would only be halfway there in the loading bar.
MetalLuigi1209
Smash Ace
I'm guessing that Yoshi is better in brawl, with all the range and such. And even though most people don't use his egg roll, apparently, you can grab onto the ledge with it. His arials, which were already fairly good became alot better in range, and he seems to have some good comboing game. Hes not exactly top tier material, but he isn't bottom either. Yoshi has a lot going for him, brawl might just be his big break.
Yoshi'stheBombers7
Smash Journeyman
We still don't know that for sure, it could have been a rumor. I'm still serching for a vid.
Teebs
Smash Champion
I like Yoshi in SSBM, and he's the best in team battles, but he still doesn't compare with SSB64.
Yoshi'stheBombers7
Smash Journeyman
Alright, here's the deal: yoshinator got Brawl (yesh!), so he will be are main source of information now (I hope you're up to the challenge yoshinator, lol). Here's from the Up B thread regarding the Side B recovery issue:
A few notes from playing the game yesterday and today
The side-b does let you grab the ledge. However, this comes at a big price, as you don't get any vertical distance from it anymore. I would not use this as a recovery move, and it's gonna take a bit to get used to not being able to egg-roll onto the stage while hanging onto the ledge. =/
The up-b's recovery ability comes in very handy, mostly because you can use it multiple times. You don't go as far with subsequent up-b's but it's still a decent amount. Edge cancelled eggs are MUCH easier now, though you can't do them as fast as we saw fumi gunning them at in melee.
I'm still getting used to the lack of DJC. It's disappointing in some ways, but it's also useful in others. Keeping your momentum after an aerial is very useful. I particularly like nairs with it now. I would like bairs with it but it's harder to get all the hits on people with it now I think. Also, I think the super armor from the double jump got a slight downgrade. I've noticed more attacks have knocked me back, and at greater distances, while using the double jump. A very sad thing for yoshi, indeed. =(
Sharky
Smash Master
lol Guess I've got the spotlight then. It's actually a friend of mine that got it, but I've basically lived over at his place the past couple days anyway, so same difference, right? =P
Just a short bit for now, cause I'm about to head out. I'll be back tonight with more, hopefully with a bit more yoshi knowledge.
His tail gets considerably longer when he attacks with it, almost as long as he's tall. this is rather nice for attacks such as his bair, dsmash, dtilt, and ftilt (which no longer is a kick, but a standing tail swipe, instead.) His dsmash seems to be less powerful now, however, probably to make up for the increased range. He's still got the dtilt gimp kill, which seems to be pretty simillar to the melee version. The bair is pretty nice, it makes a nice attack against shielding opponents, as I've been able to shrink them just enough to hit people with it on occasion. It isn't quite as good at keeping people in the attack for every hit anymore, though. His dair, while still awesome, does a bit less damage, I think, and when you're not using it in a double jump, causes yoshi to fast-fall. This is considerably more noticable when he's just falling, rather than jumping up (though his jump distance will decrease a bit if you use it on the way up in a full jump or short-hop.) Two yoshi's in the home-run contest is awesome, by the way. =D The yoshi bomb is the same, no noticeable differences, as far as I've seen. His boots get really big in attacks, too, giving him a tiny bit more range with them in his sex kick and jabs. The neutral b lost a bit of range, though it's still as fast coming out, and you can still change direction in mid-air with it. His grab seems to have a little longer range, though I'll have to look into it a bit more to give better detail as to that. His down throw isn't as good for combo's anymore since everyone is floatier in brawl.
Just a short bit for now, cause I'm about to head out. I'll be back tonight with more, hopefully with a bit more yoshi knowledge.
His tail gets considerably longer when he attacks with it, almost as long as he's tall. this is rather nice for attacks such as his bair, dsmash, dtilt, and ftilt (which no longer is a kick, but a standing tail swipe, instead.) His dsmash seems to be less powerful now, however, probably to make up for the increased range. He's still got the dtilt gimp kill, which seems to be pretty simillar to the melee version. The bair is pretty nice, it makes a nice attack against shielding opponents, as I've been able to shrink them just enough to hit people with it on occasion. It isn't quite as good at keeping people in the attack for every hit anymore, though. His dair, while still awesome, does a bit less damage, I think, and when you're not using it in a double jump, causes yoshi to fast-fall. This is considerably more noticable when he's just falling, rather than jumping up (though his jump distance will decrease a bit if you use it on the way up in a full jump or short-hop.) Two yoshi's in the home-run contest is awesome, by the way. =D The yoshi bomb is the same, no noticeable differences, as far as I've seen. His boots get really big in attacks, too, giving him a tiny bit more range with them in his sex kick and jabs. The neutral b lost a bit of range, though it's still as fast coming out, and you can still change direction in mid-air with it. His grab seems to have a little longer range, though I'll have to look into it a bit more to give better detail as to that. His down throw isn't as good for combo's anymore since everyone is floatier in brawl.
Kittah4
Smash Ace
As far as the Yoshi bomb being the same, I believe I saw a video where Yoshi can disrupt/hurt opponents on the way up from a grounded Yoshi bomb as well as on the way down. Could he always do that? This was the video guy who was showcasing Lucario and Robs move in training mode, he also had a yoshi vid.
Yoshi'stheBombers7
Smash Journeyman
Wow, that would be great!
To yoshinator: Thanks for the great compilation of information. I do have a couple of questions though if you can answer them, as I believe you are the only Yoshi fan/main with a copy of Brawl.
1. You said his D-Grab wasn't that great. I heard that due to the floatiness factor you mentioned above, that grabs are less effective because it's harder or impossible to chain grab or combo from performing a grab. Is this true? I'm also interested in what your favorite grab-throw direction you like to send your foes as Yoshi and why.
2. Do you have any favorite combos you like to use that seem to work over 80% of the time?
3. Is it possible for you to create a tier list from your Brawl gameplay experiences? It would be nice to know what you think of as decent characters (I also heard Captain Falcon is terrible, and I'd like your opinion on that).
Well, thanks for your time in answering any (if not all) of the above questions.
Kittah4
Smash Ace
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d43EXdCrd5I
Heres the vid, at about 21 seconds Yoshi starts the bomb not even right next to rob, and he sustains damage somehow and gets hit by the main part of the bomb too.
ROB goes from 39-43 percent from the first stage.
Then from 43-58 from the second.
Could the Yoshi bomb become an effective anti-air now? Will people have to worry about approaching yoshi because if they airdodge the "approach" section they could still get hit by the star and take stun. I dunno, I'm just a bit too hopefully that Yoshi won't end up in the trash heap like always.
Heres the vid, at about 21 seconds Yoshi starts the bomb not even right next to rob, and he sustains damage somehow and gets hit by the main part of the bomb too.
ROB goes from 39-43 percent from the first stage.
Then from 43-58 from the second.
Could the Yoshi bomb become an effective anti-air now? Will people have to worry about approaching yoshi because if they airdodge the "approach" section they could still get hit by the star and take stun. I dunno, I'm just a bit too hopefully that Yoshi won't end up in the trash heap like always.
That's pretty cool that it hits on the way up. Maybe you can use it maybe as a quick interrupt?
Also on the subject of throws, I was watching this video and I saw something pretty unique about Yoshi's dash grab.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr1Rxe50qkk
At 4:21 and 4:31, Yoshi does a couble dash grabs on Olimar. Now what's unique about it is that even though Yoshi grabs Olimar and Yoshi stops running, the momentum of of Yoshi's dash keeps him moving with Olimar inside his mouth. I would think that this would be unique to Yoshi because when other characters perform dash grabs, they would be running into the other character. To what extent and usefulness this would mean for Yoshi, idk, but it does seem to be something unique to him.
Also on the subject of throws, I was watching this video and I saw something pretty unique about Yoshi's dash grab.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr1Rxe50qkk
At 4:21 and 4:31, Yoshi does a couble dash grabs on Olimar. Now what's unique about it is that even though Yoshi grabs Olimar and Yoshi stops running, the momentum of of Yoshi's dash keeps him moving with Olimar inside his mouth. I would think that this would be unique to Yoshi because when other characters perform dash grabs, they would be running into the other character. To what extent and usefulness this would mean for Yoshi, idk, but it does seem to be something unique to him.
Sharky
Smash Master
Ok, I'm back, with more somewhat awesome, semi-monumental, nearly groundbreaking information. =P
I actually haven't noticed the yoshibomb hitting on the way up, I guess I just wasn't looking for it lol. I'll have to mess around with that a bit to see how effective it could be. Stay tuned for news on that. =D
Heading back to throws, the d-throw has always been my favorite throw, and continues to be so. It does have a lessened combo potential because of floatiness, like I said earlier. It can still be used for limited comboes at low to mid damages, such as following up with an egg or, in the case of the "fast fallers" (using the term lightly) of the game, an aerial. The side throws are always nice for sending people off the edge, of course, though that's nothing new. Chain grabbing is for the most part out. Surprisingly though, Dedede has an amazingly good chain grab on the mid to heavier characters. I almost got chain-grabbed to death several times as ganondorf today, and only got out of it because he messed up on the dash. So yeah, not as common, but it's still a factor in some areas.
EDIT: another note I don't think I've mentioned yet, concerning yoshi's egg-throw. The arc for the full horizontal throw is lower, and you can no longer use it to hit enemies that are more than slightly below you. A disappointment, yes, but the fact that it's a third jump now definitely makes up for it, in my opinion.
I've got a couple new notes about yoshi's aerials, which lead to some interesting combo potential. Firstly, his uair and bair have no landing lag. So short hopped uairs and bairs can be particularly effective for combo's, as you can tell. A favorite of mine at low damages is the bair to ftilt, or even another shorthopped bair if they don't recover quickly enough. The other bit of aerial news is that yoshi's dair isn't a meteor smash anymore. In fact, it hardly moves the opponent at all. At higher damages, the opponent will be stunned for long enough for a dsmash, like was possible in melee. Bad news is you can't spike people with it anymore. sad yoshi =( It's still good damage though. Happy yoshi! =D
Back to the sad yoshi though, on the subject of his double jump. I've found out that he actually doesn't have super armor for as long as he used to. By about half the time. =$ Obviously this is not a good thing at all for yoshi.
A tier list, eh? Geez, everyone wants a tier list lol. I don't think I have enough knowledge to accurately rank everyone yet. I can give general ideas for some people though, if that helps. =)
good people: diddy (amazingly fast, and has awesome aerials), R.O.B. (a little slow on the ground, but his b-up is good to the point where he can go under a standard sized stage and has a decent aerial and projectile game), ike (if you can get his super armor down), marth (his sword may be shorter but he's still fast and deadly,) toon link (as much as it angers me, the clone is much better than regular link >.<). Captain Falcon has lost much of his aerial game due to his newly found floatiness. The falcon punch is still as manly awesome as always, and the knee, though a bit harder to sweet spot, is still just as powerful. I'd say he got a good amount worse due to the floatiness, though, it's slowed him down too much.
I'd put yoshi in the middle of the pack, his various upgrades are awesome, but his downgrades keep him from going to the top, unfortunately.
I actually haven't noticed the yoshibomb hitting on the way up, I guess I just wasn't looking for it lol. I'll have to mess around with that a bit to see how effective it could be. Stay tuned for news on that. =D
Heading back to throws, the d-throw has always been my favorite throw, and continues to be so. It does have a lessened combo potential because of floatiness, like I said earlier. It can still be used for limited comboes at low to mid damages, such as following up with an egg or, in the case of the "fast fallers" (using the term lightly) of the game, an aerial. The side throws are always nice for sending people off the edge, of course, though that's nothing new. Chain grabbing is for the most part out. Surprisingly though, Dedede has an amazingly good chain grab on the mid to heavier characters. I almost got chain-grabbed to death several times as ganondorf today, and only got out of it because he messed up on the dash. So yeah, not as common, but it's still a factor in some areas.
EDIT: another note I don't think I've mentioned yet, concerning yoshi's egg-throw. The arc for the full horizontal throw is lower, and you can no longer use it to hit enemies that are more than slightly below you. A disappointment, yes, but the fact that it's a third jump now definitely makes up for it, in my opinion.
I've got a couple new notes about yoshi's aerials, which lead to some interesting combo potential. Firstly, his uair and bair have no landing lag. So short hopped uairs and bairs can be particularly effective for combo's, as you can tell. A favorite of mine at low damages is the bair to ftilt, or even another shorthopped bair if they don't recover quickly enough. The other bit of aerial news is that yoshi's dair isn't a meteor smash anymore. In fact, it hardly moves the opponent at all. At higher damages, the opponent will be stunned for long enough for a dsmash, like was possible in melee. Bad news is you can't spike people with it anymore. sad yoshi =( It's still good damage though. Happy yoshi! =D
Back to the sad yoshi though, on the subject of his double jump. I've found out that he actually doesn't have super armor for as long as he used to. By about half the time. =$ Obviously this is not a good thing at all for yoshi.
A tier list, eh? Geez, everyone wants a tier list lol. I don't think I have enough knowledge to accurately rank everyone yet. I can give general ideas for some people though, if that helps. =)
good people: diddy (amazingly fast, and has awesome aerials), R.O.B. (a little slow on the ground, but his b-up is good to the point where he can go under a standard sized stage and has a decent aerial and projectile game), ike (if you can get his super armor down), marth (his sword may be shorter but he's still fast and deadly,) toon link (as much as it angers me, the clone is much better than regular link >.<). Captain Falcon has lost much of his aerial game due to his newly found floatiness. The falcon punch is still as manly awesome as always, and the knee, though a bit harder to sweet spot, is still just as powerful. I'd say he got a good amount worse due to the floatiness, though, it's slowed him down too much.
I'd put yoshi in the middle of the pack, his various upgrades are awesome, but his downgrades keep him from going to the top, unfortunately.
Kittah4
Smash Ace
Is Yoshi's dash still good? I remember it being fun to mindgame my semi-good friends in Melee because I could "techchase" them with it, because it seemed to hit even as Yoshi was decellerating. How about his Fair? And is his windup for his grab still woefully long?
Yoshi'stheBombers7
Smash Journeyman
Yea, I heard that Captain Falcon isn't that great anymore.
Now, you said above you liked Ike. I heard he was unbearably slow (from Gimpy, in fact, lol he mains Bowser).
Has your friend unlocked all the characters yet? It made me curious when you mentioned Toon Link (I thought he was one of the last characters you unlock).
Sharky
Smash Master
Ike's slow, yes, but with all of the super armor his attacks have, I think he should be slower lol. Plus he's got ways to become fast via certain attacks, namely, his side b, and has a lot of range to make up for it.
Yeah, he's got all of the characters, it's been fun. =) I'm gonna add wolf to my list of good people, as he's got speed and decent power in the right places. He's gonna be good.
EDIT: More opinions from today's smashing!
I've messed around with the yoshi bomb, and it's like 10 times better now because of hitting on the way up. It still doesn't have amazing priority, though, so I wouldn't say it's completely spammable. It is something that I'll be using a few times a match, though. =D
The f-tilt is yoshi's new combo starter. It has little knock-back, can often be used two or three times, and then followed up by an up or f smash, or maybe even a yoshi bomb =P. Yes it's that good. Use it.
I did a bit more work with the d-throw today. It definitely hasn't lost all of its combo potential, it just has different combo potential. Aerials are your best bet for following up one now, eggs are also viable, though I'd only do that if you're very sure of your aim. The back throw is also nice cause it has a good low trajectory. It gave me a few KO's today. =)
The egg roll is overall worse than melee. Don't use it. Like I said earlier, no more vertical distance. In fact, it stops your horizontal movement when used in the air, too. Again, don't use it, especially not in the air.
Yeah, he's got all of the characters, it's been fun. =) I'm gonna add wolf to my list of good people, as he's got speed and decent power in the right places. He's gonna be good.
EDIT: More opinions from today's smashing!
I've messed around with the yoshi bomb, and it's like 10 times better now because of hitting on the way up. It still doesn't have amazing priority, though, so I wouldn't say it's completely spammable. It is something that I'll be using a few times a match, though. =D
The f-tilt is yoshi's new combo starter. It has little knock-back, can often be used two or three times, and then followed up by an up or f smash, or maybe even a yoshi bomb =P. Yes it's that good. Use it.
I did a bit more work with the d-throw today. It definitely hasn't lost all of its combo potential, it just has different combo potential. Aerials are your best bet for following up one now, eggs are also viable, though I'd only do that if you're very sure of your aim. The back throw is also nice cause it has a good low trajectory. It gave me a few KO's today. =)
The egg roll is overall worse than melee. Don't use it. Like I said earlier, no more vertical distance. In fact, it stops your horizontal movement when used in the air, too. Again, don't use it, especially not in the air.
Yoshi'stheBombers7
Smash Journeyman
Yea, I heard that too, and that he's sorta like a clone to Fox, but his cloned moves are very different (like the shine and laser) that he can be considered a seperate character.
I didn't think the news on that would ground-breaking, like, OMG! SPAMING POWER!
But still, it's good to know Yoshi's recieved yet ANOTHER buff.
Thanks for the heads up. I love using his F-Tilt anyways in Melee.
Yoshi in general has a whole entirely different combo potential.
Well, I guess I'll have to stop the roll-from-the-edge-thing-because-people-don't-see-it-comming technique.
Sharky
Smash Master
Bear in mind that the f-tilt is not the same attack as it was in melee. It is now a tail-swipe, rather than a kick. It still knocks opponents in a mostly upward direction, though.
and the whole monumental groundbreaking amazing bit at the start was just for my own amusement, I know none of it was really huge news =P
and the whole monumental groundbreaking amazing bit at the start was just for my own amusement, I know none of it was really huge news =P
Yosher
Smash Ace
I love the new F-tilt being a tailswipe instead of a kick. The attack having less lag and knockback certainly seems to give him more/different combo potential, as said above.
And wait- the Yoshi Bomb now also hits on the way up? That's a great improvement for this move! It wasn't all too useful in Melee, so it certainly has more potential now. Too bad about the Egg Roll though, I like the move but I won't use it if it's so bad.
And wait- the Yoshi Bomb now also hits on the way up? That's a great improvement for this move! It wasn't all too useful in Melee, so it certainly has more potential now. Too bad about the Egg Roll though, I like the move but I won't use it if it's so bad.
Yoshi'stheBombers7
Smash Journeyman
Yea, I understand it's a new move now, but I don't think it's really any different. It has the same qualities as the kick in Melee (at least, from what I see through the Youtube videos).
Yosher
Smash Ace
But it has much less lag as far as I've seen, so it should certainly be more useful than the kick if that's the case, right?
Yoshi'stheBombers7
Smash Journeyman
Yea, there is a little less lag. And I like it because it suits him better then a kick. You can tell the developers didn't really put a lot of thought in that move.
Yosher
Smash Ace
Yeah, but they thought about it now. As well as improving his recovery.
Yoshi'stheBombers7
Smash Journeyman
Yes, they've had PLENTY of time for that (dumb delays).
Actually, I'd perfer a classic and wait 3 years rather than geting a chew toy right now.
Sharky
Smash Master
the decreased knockback on the tail swipe vs the kick in melee makes it much better as an offensive combo move compared to the kick.
Yosher
Smash Ace
Yeah, that's what I meant too. With less lag and less knockback it's sure to be a more lethal move in the hands of a good Yoshi player.
Yeah I'd rather not have the squeekish sound effects either, but trust me, true Yoshi players will eventually fall in love with that too.Yes, they've had PLENY of time for that (dumb delays).
Actually, I'd perfer a classic and wait 3 years rather than geting a chew toy right now.