Is SSB64 Still Worth Playing?

[kys]

A counter statement with nothing to back it up? What scandal.

You're the one who came to the 64 boards and made a statement. Burden of proof is on you.

If you meant "good" in the sense that there are more combos, you're statement is false.

If you meant "good" in the sense that it is balanced, you're statement is false. Samus sucks, sure, but the gap between bottom and top is not nearly as big as it is in melee.

That is all. Good day. I hope you did not take my post as being *******-ish, because that is not my style.

 

[clubbadubba]

IMO it is harder to combo in melee but that's because of the speed of the games, not DI.

Certainly the speed of the game makes it harder to combo because you have to process more quickly which move to do and how to position your character. However, I would argue the biggest reason you can't combo as well in melee is because of the lack of hitstun.

 

[Claire Diviner]

While the hitstun was lowered only slightly, it wasn't too much where combos aren't common in Melee. There are 0-deaths in both Melee and 64, but the ones in 64 are more common and far easier to pull off.

@kys: Your responses were *******-ish, whether you admit it or not.

 

[kys]

No, sir. Read what I wrote in a reasoned, level voice. That's how I meant it. I said what I said at the end because I understand that you could be "on tilt", as it were, and I didn't want a misunderstanding.

Hitstun was lowered greatly. I would ask you to show me some examples of TRUE 0-death combos. I will then link you to Ricky and Malva's youtube channels. My guess is that you will be corrected. (Ballin' and Pete (Australia shoutout) for honorable mention)

 

[Claire Diviner]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaOUgyHAlsQ

Well, here's one example. Granted it's only one example, but it still means it's possible. Take it how you want it, and try to defend your argument to the death if you must, but understand there are combos in both games. I'll give you credit for the 0-death thing, but that's it. Otherwise, saying there's no combos in Melee, or even implying I'm saying that Melee has more combos than 64 makes you look as ignorant as you claim me to be.

And for the record, I would prefer being called ma'am, not "sir".

 

[ballin4life]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaOUgyHAlsQ

Well, here's one example. Granted it's only one example, but it still means it's possible. Take it how you want it, and try to defend your argument to the death if you must, but understand there are combos in both games. I'll give you credit for the 0-death thing, but that's it. Otherwise, saying there's no combos in Melee, or even implying I'm saying that Melee has more combos than 64 makes you look as ignorant as you claim me to be.

And for the record, I would prefer being called ma'am, not "sir".

well i guess that's a 26 to death

 

[M!nt]

I'm sure there's some 0-death combos in melee. Have you seen Dr.Peepees falco, combos up a storm.

 

[kys]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaOUgyHAlsQ

Well, here's one example. Granted it's only one example, but it still means it's possible. Take it how you want it, and try to defend your argument to the death if you must, but understand there are combos in both games. I'll give you credit for the 0-death thing, but that's it. Otherwise, saying there's no combos in Melee, or even implying I'm saying that Melee has more combos than 64 makes you look as ignorant as you claim me to be.

And for the record, I would prefer being called ma'am, not "sir".

"It's possible". Please look up Ricky.

I never said there weren't combos in Melee.

"Or even implying I'm saying that Melee has more combos than 64". You said that the combo game in Melee was as good (almost as good as) 64. I'm not really sure how I implied you said otherwise.

Combos are longer in 64. By a significant margin and by a significant number in the cast. That is a fact.

^Combos are able to be done by a larger percentage of the cast (percentage because the # of characters are different, obviously) that are 0 to death (or close), or taken to a high percent and finished with mindless edgeguarding. What's more, these combos are easily done by your average kaillera scrub, which is also significant.

It looks like you're trying to back out of your initial statement by both making a new one and hiding behind a plethora of posts that hide the original.

I feel stupid for even having to defend this.

 

[Claire Diviner]

^Combos are able to be done by a larger percentage of the cast (percentage because the # of characters are different, obviously) that are 0 to death (or close), or taken to a high percent and finished with mindless edgeguarding. What's more, these combos are easily done by your average kaillera scrub, which is also significant.

It looks like you're trying to back out of your initial statement by both making a new one and hiding behind a plethora of posts that hide the original.

I feel stupid for even having to defend this.

I'm not backing out of anything. Melee still has good combo games, and if edgeguarding is factored in, then Melee's combo game is still justified.

If you must feel foolish for anything, it isn't defending your arguments more so than starting one.

 

[Spyro]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0O2e-lFABc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I'd consider the first and last stocks zero to death since he had no real opportunities to get out of it.

 

[kys]

@ Sol Diviner: You never said it was justified. You said it was just as good. You are backing out of your statement. That's fine, just admit it. If anything, I started this argument because people come in here all the time and don't really know what they're talking about. It gets annoying after awhile and I decided to give battlecow a break.

@Spyro: The first stock he should not have upb'd into the laser. He easily could have gotten out. The last stock I stopped counting how many times he could have escaped.

Seriously guys, go pick, I dunno, Link or Falcon. Play a good Kirby (if you can find one) on dreamland and let him utilt you on one of the edges. You will learn what it means to have "no real opportunities to get out of it".

I'm not going to post about this anymore. Star King wouldn't argue with people about Congo because they had never played it. That was good advice. You two have never played 64 at a high level. I won't argue about it.

 

[Claire Diviner]

@ Sol Diviner: You never said it was justified. You said it was just as good. You are backing out of your statement. That's fine, just admit it. If anything, I started this argument because people come in here all the time and don't really know what they're talking about. It gets annoying after awhile and I decided to give battlecow a break.

I meant the argument of combos being as good was justified. My goodness, are all guys this black-and-white? I am not backing down from anything, and trying to convince me that I am won't work either.

 

[ballin4life]

yeah we're kinda ****ish in this forum but you gotta understand that EVERY WEEK we get someone coming in and acting like we don't know **** about smash 64

 

[Claire Diviner]

yeah we're kinda ****ish in this forum but you gotta understand that EVERY WEEK we get someone coming in and acting like we don't know **** about smash 64

Understandable. Just don't lump me in with them. I don't mean to come across as some "know-it-all", if that was your impression. Also, couldn't you just flash your Smash 64 BRoom postbit as a means to shut them up instantly?

 

[asianaussie]

Hahahahahahaha

:\

 

[M!nt]

If it means anything, you didn't come across as one of those people to me = ]

Why do you sound so aggravated kys? lol

 

[Battlecow]

Understandable. Just don't lump me in with them. I don't mean to come across as some "know-it-all", if that was your impression. Also, couldn't you just flash your Smash 64 BRoom postbit as a means to shut them up instantly?

No, but that's exactly what you're doing though. Kys is mad at you because you're one of those people.

 

[Morin0]

If anything, I started this argument because people come in here all the time and don't really know what they're talking about. It gets annoying after awhile and I decided to give battlecow a break.

I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. This place is almost always empty and it's always regulars posting, ROFL.

 

[Claire Diviner]

No, but that's exactly what you're doing though. Kys is mad at you because you're one of those people.

Well, I'm not.

I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. This place is almost always empty and it's always regulars posting, ROFL.

My thoughts exactly.

Also, I might be a regular here myself, so don't be surprised to see me more and more on this board. Goodness knows the other boards can get dull at times.

 

[clubbadubba]

^64 boards are where its at!

Mainly what kys is saying is that more than a few times a month, a random person comes in the 64 section and starts spouting nonsense about how ness is too good. It gets a bit annoying after a while. Not saying you're one of those people, just that kys thought/thinks you are so guess you were the last straw.

 

[Claire Diviner]

^64 boards are where its at!

Other than a recent minor "speed bump", I'd say this place is nice.

Mainly what kys is saying is that more than a few times a month, a random person comes in the 64 section and starts spouting nonsense about how ness is too good. It gets a bit annoying after a while. Not saying you're one of those people, just that kys thought/thinks you are so guess you were the last straw.

Well, I guess there always has to be "that guy" for everyone. Guess kys is my "that guy". It was bound to be my turn at some point or another.

 

[Morin0]

Ness is a good character if you know how to use him properly.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

A lot of people here are generally chill but some are easily irritated when people butt in with un-informed comments that don't contribute anything to the board besides nonsensical arguments such as "Smash64 doesn't have DI lololol melee ruls" as an example.

You should come check out the social thread, it's where most of us hang nowadays.

lalala OH nanana

Ness is a good character if you know how to use him properly.

QFT

 

[Claire Diviner]

Ness is a good character if you know how to use him properly.

Actually all characters are good when used properly when used by Isai.

 

[The Star King]

My goodness, are all guys this black-and-white?

Subtle trolling right here

Also, couldn't you just flash your Smash 64 BRoom postbit as a means to shut them up instantly?

LOL I love you

 

[kys]

If it means anything, you didn't come across as one of those people to me = ]

Why do you sound so aggravated kys? lol

I feel like if more of the Melee/Brawl community actually took 64 seriously, we could grow. Growth means more tournaments, more people, more hype, more money, etc. etc. etc. These are good things, and I believe it's still possible.

For many, it's a given that Melee is "an improvement over everything". But we know that 64 offers something different (and depending on personal preference, that makes it better or worse).

When people come on here and show how little they know, it's a reminder that 64 is still considered that cute little sibling that no one takes seriously.

Should I care this much? Probably not. But a part of me knows it would be frickin' sweet if we had even more awesome combo vids/hype tourneys like Apex/greater recognition/PEOPLE.

I thought it was really cool that dogysamich commentated the Apex GF's. Apex was a great step in the right direction.

 

[Claire Diviner]

The irony is, between the three games, I prefer Smash 64 anyway, and view it as seriously as any 64 enthusiast.

 

[Sangoku]

The irony is, between the three games, I prefer Smash 64 anyway, and view it as seriously as any 64 enthusiast.

Cool ****, then everybody just stops the useless argument now .

I'm the argument breaker.

Spoiler

smash 64 is objectively better than mêlée though

 

[Prince_Abu]

the problem with 64 is that theres no final smash

 

[Claire Diviner]

the problem with 64 is that theres no final smash

Like it really needs it? Even though Brawl (is the only game so far that) has Final Smashes, they're banned from competitive play anyway, so Final Smashes - or lack thereof - is no penalty for 64... or Melee for that matter.

 

[Prince_Abu]

Like it really needs it? Even though Brawl (is the only game so far that) has Final Smashes, they're banned from competitive play anyway, so Final Smashes - or lack thereof - is no penalty for 64... or Melee for that matter.

u r obviously the noob that can never get the final smash

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Let's add a completely random/wonky mechanic that unbalances the game by creating unavoidable situations that are almost guaranteed to kill.

lalala OH nanana

 

[Strong Badam]

On the subject of Melee vs. 64:
64 combos to me are bland. Outside of the positioning on the first hit, they are all rehearsed. Sure some players are able to SDI, but in general after you get a hit you press your buttons and they die/take tons of damage for the most part. It's like golf; both players just go back and forth after the first hit and do their thing with little to no player interaction whatsoever.
Melee combos? With Trajectory DI, even when you're getting hit, there is still player interaction. This player interaction is the basis of why I find Melee to be such a great game. Save for Wobbling, there's no situation where you literally have no control over the outcome.

Now, as far as fun goes, both games are quite fun competitively. So I don't have any problems with people playing either game.

 

[Claire Diviner]

u r obviously the noob that can never get the final smash

And you're obviously the troll that can never get underneath the skin of someone like me.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

On the subject of Melee vs. 64:
64 combos to me are bland. Outside of the positioning on the first hit, they are all rehearsed. Sure some players are able to SDI, but in general after you get a hit you press your buttons and they die/take tons of damage for the most part. It's like golf; both players just go back and forth after the first hit and do their thing with little to no player interaction whatsoever.
Melee combos? With Trajectory DI, even when you're getting hit, there is still player interaction. This player interaction is the basis of why I find Melee to be such a great game. Save for Wobbling, there's no situation where you literally have no control over the outcome.

Now, as far as fun goes, both games are quite fun competitively. So I don't have any problems with people playing either game.

I will admit to the fact that most 64 combos are indeed, rehearsed. I wouldn't say that's a bad thing though, it takes just as much effort as your would expect to land all of those combos to rehearse them, A lot of us just spend hours in training trying to practice combos, they're essentially what makes 64, because without combos we would all be just throwing each other .

Anyways, I wouldn't say that's true at all, and once you get to top level play, you have to seriously set up a situation where you CAN land a combo before even trying it, just spamming out attacks won't get you anywhere and it's a game of chess, you almost have to wait for an opening or wait for them to make a mistake, then you punish them brutally. If you got more into Smash 64 you would understand that, I would think, and realize while combos is the core of 64, there are many other things that make it great.

lalala OH nanana

 

[Battlecow]

On the subject of Melee vs. 64:
64 combos to me are bland. Outside of the positioning on the first hit, they are all rehearsed. Sure some players are able to SDI, but in general after you get a hit you press your buttons and they die/take tons of damage for the most part. It's like golf; both players just go back and forth after the first hit and do their thing with little to no player interaction whatsoever.
Melee combos? With Trajectory DI, even when you're getting hit, there is still player interaction. This player interaction is the basis of why I find Melee to be such a great game. Save for Wobbling, there's no situation where you literally have no control over the outcome.

Now, as far as fun goes, both games are quite fun competitively. So I don't have any problems with people playing either game.

Combos change up a lot based on character, percent, and stage position; this plus the variable directions the opponent can SDI in means that with any given character you've got a gajillion combos and might have to switch which one you're doing halfway through.

 

[Morin0]

On the subject of Melee vs. 64:
64 combos to me are bland. Outside of the positioning on the first hit, they are all rehearsed. Sure some players are able to SDI, but in general after you get a hit you press your buttons and they die/take tons of damage for the most part. It's like golf; both players just go back and forth after the first hit and do their thing with little to no player interaction whatsoever.
Melee combos? With Trajectory DI, even when you're getting hit, there is still player interaction. This player interaction is the basis of why I find Melee to be such a great game. Save for Wobbling, there's no situation where you literally have no control over the outcome.

Now, as far as fun goes, both games are quite fun competitively. So I don't have any problems with people playing either game.

Good post.

 

[ballin4life]

On the subject of Melee vs. 64:
64 combos to me are bland. Outside of the positioning on the first hit, they are all rehearsed. Sure some players are able to SDI, but in general after you get a hit you press your buttons and they die/take tons of damage for the most part. It's like golf; both players just go back and forth after the first hit and do their thing with little to no player interaction whatsoever.
Melee combos? With Trajectory DI, even when you're getting hit, there is still player interaction. This player interaction is the basis of why I find Melee to be such a great game. Save for Wobbling, there's no situation where you literally have no control over the outcome.

Now, as far as fun goes, both games are quite fun competitively. So I don't have any problems with people playing either game.

this applies to falcon if you play him super basic but i don't see it as much for the other characters. maybe for yoshi IF your opponent doesn't know how to DI and you just do utilt dair on a heavy. for all the other characters i think the optimal combo to do is very situational.

 

[Prince_Abu]

64 has too many guaranteed death combos off one hit for my liking tbh

 

[Claire Diviner]

Suffice it to say Smash 64 rewards the most for punishing the opponent's mistakes.