Is Smash Ultimate’s Roster Too Big for its Own Good?

Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this article are those of the author's and not of Smashboards as a whole.
​

Ever since Brawl, the Super Smash Bros. franchise has been known for its huge rosters. With the game being a celebration of all things Nintendo, it makes sense that Sakurai and his team do their best to stuff each title with more fighters than the last. However, with the release of Smash Ultimate and the announcement of 11 DLC fighters in total, there comes an issue that needs to be considered. Is the huge roster of Super Smash Bros. Ultimate a good thing, a bad thing, or something in between for the game’s competitive scene?

To establish how big Ultimate’s roster is, let’s look at some of the games featured at Evo this year to draw comparisons with other popular fighting games. On the smaller side, you have anime fighters like Granblue Fantasy Versus with 16 characters and Under Night In-Birth Exe:Late[cl-r] with 21 characters. But looking at more well-known fighting games, Street Fighter V: Champion Edition and Tekken 7 have roster sizes of 40 and 49 respectively. Meanwhile, Ultimate entirely dwarves these rosters with 81 characters (75 as of now).

Puts things into perspective​

Ultimate’s roster size does have some positive effects on the competitive scene. With so many characters, most people can find a character that’s just right for them. The roster accommodates a wide range of playstyles, while providing multiple options for each playstyle. The larger roster also allows the game to have more variety at top level. Since the larger roster size has a proportional effect on tier sizes, there are more top and high tiers that spectators get to see in Top 8s of huge tourneys.

"I'm not just your regular zoner, I'm actually a trapper!"
​

However, this leads to the game having a ridiculous number of matchups to learn. Knowing your opponent’s tools and options and how to combat them with your own is essential to winning in any fighting game. So, people who don't want to lose to matchup unfamiliarity must spend hours grinding against 81 characters (no, not 80, dittos are harder than you’d think) that they may only ever meet once in bracket. The amount of work required to deal with an unlikely scenario doesn’t seem worth it, so most people don’t go out of their way to learn matchups against uncommon characters. But when they inevitably come face-to-face with a mid or low tier, or even a rarely played high tier like Pac-Man, they might lack essential knowledge on how to play against them and are forced to adapt on the fly or lose in a high stakes setting. And eventually, this can lead to a loss to that leaves quite a sour taste in one’s mouth.

How it Feels Like in Bracket
​

However, all coins have two sides, and so does this debate. Due to having so many matchups, mid and low tiers now have a better shot at winning a match. Sure, their advantage is nothing like the top tier and high tiers who have the luxury of being consistently good no matter how many times they have been played against. But that element of surprise and confusion a worse character may possess can put them on equal footing, giving them a fighting chance. Also, while it is true that matches against these characters can only be won by adapting to them in time, that isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Adaptation is a cornerstone of fighting games, and while it can be difficult to adapt to a character in tourney, it certainly isn’t impossible. A good player will be able to learn the tools of a character through playing safe and picking opportunities, and while they may not learn how to best play the matchup, they’ll be able to learn enough about both the character and their player to come out on top.

In conclusion, Ultimate’s insane roster size isn’t likely to go anywhere. In fact, based on how the Smash series has progressed up till now, there’s a fair chance it’ll only get larger. But that isn’t really an objectively good or bad thing, it’s just an aspect of the game we must accept in order to keep enjoying it. Whether there can be too many characters in Smash is a question I plan to consider another day. But for now, I’ll be hitting up the Kirby discord to learn how to deal with his insufferable crouch.

This Probably Counts as Too Many​

 

Except I used criteria that are relevant thus making a good argument. Though I admit that it would be cool to have the obligatory FE representative of pass 2 be nonhuman. I guess it could be something like Marth's horse.

This statement makes me so mad on so many levels. Just by that FE statement alone shows that you don't really care about looking into characters outside appearence.

 

Except I used criteria that are relevant thus making a good argument. Though I admit that it would be cool to have the obligatory FE representative of pass 2 be nonhuman. I guess it could be something like Marth's horse.

Are you kidding, if another FE character was added the entire community would explode with toxicity, we need a DK rep, a Kirby rep, and a indie rep

Also saying we only need one Pokemon is terribly wrong, and Pokemon is far more popular than FE.

 

This statement makes me so mad on so many levels. Just by that FE statement alone shows that you don't really care about looking into characters outside appearence.

Also this.

 

Are you kidding, if another FE character was added the entire community would explode with toxicity, we need a DK rep, a Kirby rep, and a indie rep

Also saying we only need one Pokemon is terribly wrong, and Pokemon is far more popular than FE.

Agreed there. Though it's very unlikely, I would be fine with multiple pokemon, a new fe rep, and the aforementioned ones. Well, as long as we got a good indie character from an actual series instead of a one off that's super obscure.

 

Just by that FE statement alone shows that you don't really care about looking into characters outside appearence.

Wrong, I do not even know what Marth's horse looks like.

Are you kidding, if another FE character was added the entire community would explode with toxicity, we need a DK rep, a Kirby rep, and a indie rep

No they would not. If they would they would have exploded with Byleth. After having 5 Marth's and a whole bunch of other FE characters they ended the DLC pass —that until then contained a lot of widely beloved characters— with yet another FE advertisement character. If they can get away with that then they can add one more FE character. Besides, I would love to have a FE horse as a character. At least it would be unpredictable. It would combine the hype and love that Piranha Plant and Byleth received. It's another generic character like Piranha Plant and it's from FE like Byleth. I think it's best to make Geno the second-to-last character of DLC pass 2 and then add a FE horse as the final character.

Also saying we only need one Pokemon is terribly wrong, and Pokemon is far more popular than FE.

Good thing I never said that. We need at least 3 Pokemon for PT, aand we need Pikachu for being the Mascotte of the franchise, and we need Mewtwo for being the OG Uber. And we also need someone from the the newest Pokemon generation as advertisement and the older Pokemon that were picked for this role in previous Smash games because everyone is here and it balances the generations a bit.

Well, as long as we got a good indie character from an actual series instead of a one off that's super obscure.

I think the Indie character should be either Clippit from MS Word or Tux the Linux penguin. Goku would be great too.

 

Agreed there. Though it's very unlikely, I would be fine with multiple pokemon, a new fe rep, and the aforementioned ones. Well, as long as we got a good indie character from an actual series instead of a one off that's super obscure.

I'm not saying we need another Pokemon (want Cinderace, but meh) and for indies, I think there are several good options, looking at Cadence, Crypt of the Necrodancer had a crossover with the Legend of Zelda, you don't see that every day

 

Wrong, I do not even know what Marth's horse looks like.


No they would not. If they would they would have exploded with Byleth. After having 5 Marth's and a whole bunch of other FE characters they ended the DLC pass —that until then contained a lot of widely beloved characters— with yet another FE advertisement character. If they can get away with that then they can add one more FE character. Besides, I would love to have a FE horse as a character. At least it would be unpredictable. It would combine the hype and love that Piranha Plant and Byleth received. It's another generic character like Piranha Plant and it's from FE like Byleth. I think it's best to make Geno the second-to-last character of DLC pass 2 and then add a FE horse as the final character.


Good thing I never said that. We need at least 3 Pokemon for PT, aand we need Pikachu for being the Mascotte of the franchise, and we need Mewtwo for being the OG Uber. And we also need someone from the the newest Pokemon generation as advertisement and the older Pokemon that were picked for this role in previous Smash games because everyone is here and it balances the generations a bit.


I think the Indie character should be either Clippit from MS Word or Tux the Linux penguin. Goku would be great too.

1. Goku is not an indie character, nor is he a videogame (or at least he didn't debut in a videogame) character.
2. Wow you're serious on the horse? I'm uncertain it would work though. Horses are only notable for their riders.

 

Goku is not an indie character, nor is he a videogame (or at least he didn't debut in a videogame) character.

There are plenty of fighting games with Goku. Thankfully, Sakurai specifically said no Goku in Smash.

 

I would love to have a FE horse as a character.

Question, not an argument: How do you except a quadruped(f o u r l e g s) character to play in Smash?

 

1. Goku is not an indie character, nor is he a videogame (or at least he didn't debut in a videogame) character.

Toriyama is a strong and independent man. Just because he's successful and gets a bit of help does not mean that he is not independent!

2. Wow you're serious on the horse? I'm uncertain it would work though. Horses are only notable for their riders.

And Piranha Plants are not notable at all, but they got in. Anything can work.

There are plenty of fighting games with Goku. Thankfully, Sakurai specifically said no Goku in Smash.

None of those are platform fighters AFAIK. And none of those are Smash Bros.. So none of those count. Otherwise you might as well advocate for Mario to be removed from Smash because there are plenty of Nintendo games with Mario in it. In fact, Mario has already been in 6 Smash games now so there are plenty of Smash games with Mario in it.

Question, not an argument: How do you except a quadruped(f o u r l e g s) character to play in Smash?

I would expect their playstyle to be dependent on their other characteristics similar to how it is with bipeds.

 

I would expect their playstyle to be dependent on their other characteristics similar to how bipeds play.

That's not an answer.

 

That's not an answer.

That is the answer. There is no single playstyle for every quadruped. E.g. Ivysaur uses his vines and leafs making him a mid range character, a horse would probably use kicks and bites and have a fast running speed and play more like a rushdown/heavyweight character. The only thing that can be said about both of these quadrupeds is that they would play according to their characteristics, just like bipeds do. The amount of legs is not enough to dictate how a character plays.

 

That is the answer. There is no single playstyle for every quadruped. E.g. Ivysaur uses his vines and leafs making him a mid range character, a horse would probably use kicks and bites and have a fast running speed and play more like a rushdown/heavyweight character. The only thing that can be said about both of these quadrupeds is that they would play according to their characteristics, just like bipeds do. The amount of legs is not enough to dictate how a character plays.

Ok, ok, still no. We arent getting more FE characters.

 

Ok, ok, still no. We arent getting more FE characters.

Unless a new FE game comes out before the DLC ends. Gotta have that marketing.

 

Toriyama is a strong and independent man. Just because he's successful and gets a bit of help does not mean that he is not independent!


And Piranha Plants are not notable at all, but they got in. Anything can work.


None of those are platform fighters AFAIK. And none of those are Smash Bros.. So none of those count. Otherwise you might as well advocate for Mario to be removed from Smash because there are plenty of Nintendo games with Mario in it. In fact, Mario has already been in 6 Smash games now so there are plenty of Smash games with Mario in it.


I would expect their playstyle to be dependent on their other characteristics similar to how it is with bipeds.

Buddy, Piranha Plants had important roles in mario spin offs, are iconic and have been around since 1985, I could go on. The horse, well, um, let's just say horses never had an important role. Only the riders were important.

 

Buddy, Piranha Plants had important roles in mario spin offs, are iconic and have been around since 1985, I could go on. The horse, well, um, let's just say horses never had an important role. Only the riders were important.

Horses have played many important roles in many games. Some games are entirely based on horses. In fact horses featured in games long before Piranha Plants were even conceived off.

 

Unless a new FE game comes out before the DLC ends. Gotta have that marketing.

Ok, true. Still haven't gotten that gen8 Pokemon though.

 

Horses have played many important roles in many games. Some games are entirely based on horses. In fact horses featured in games long before Piranha Plants were even conceived off.

Start a new thread if you want to support horses in Smash. I'm done arguing something this dumb.

 

Start a new thread if you want to support horses in Smash. I'm done arguing something this dumb.

Then I rest my case.

 

Horses have played many important roles in many games. Some games are entirely based on horses. In fact horses featured in games long before Piranha Plants were even conceived off.

Buddy, you're talking a FE Horse. Those only started appearing in 1990, and there were no FE spin offs based around horses. Im finished here.

Then I rest my case.

Start a new thread if you want to support horses in Smash. I'm done arguing something this dumb.

Agreed with Puff. This is starting to get ridiculously dumb and crappy. But remember we only gave up because you were such a pain.

 

Buddy, you're talking a FE Horse. Those only started appearing in 1990, and there were no FE spin offs based around horses. Im finished here.

1990 that's earlier than a large part of the cast. And FE characters are allowed to be included in Smash even if their age is negative (Roy, Corrin) so 20 years or older is definitely old enough for an FE character to be included in Smash.

Agreed with Puff. This is starting to get ridiculously dumb and crappy. But remember we only gave up because you were such a pain.

So me being right makes me a pain to you. I am sorry that you think that way about it.

 

So me being right makes me a pain to you. I am sorry that you think that way about it.

The whole point of an argument is that both sides think they are right. I believe I am right. So does Pokelego. So do you.

 

I feel like all smash needs now is a roster refiner. Like that program you can get from banana or whatever that site was called.
Would honestly have still preferred more character customization over character amount, but eh.

 

The way I see it, the roster size is fine, but there are certain characters I would’ve liked to see over others.

• Meowth over Jigglypuff
• Scizor over Pichu (but #18 instead of #19)
• Ayumi Tachibana instead of Dr. Mario (but #19 instead of #18)
• Azura over Corrin
• Sora over Byleth
• Dr. Eggman over Steve
• BWD to fill the void I left by making Sora CP5

 

I think the size is fine. Smash is a game who’s mere concept is to put together video game characters that you would never expect to see on the Same screen and make them beat the ever loving crap out of each other. As newer games come out the roster expands. The game is meant to appeal to casual audiences first with some deeper mechanics to appeal to the more hardcore fans buried under the surface, so balance is always an afterthought when it comes to adding characters.

 

Someone way earlier said that the roster resulted in shallower single-player. I mean, I wouldn't say that it compares to Brawl's offerings, but I personally saw it as a significant improvement over Smash4, a game that only had a bit over half the characters that Ultimate has. Not only that, but the way Smash4 utilized its roster in single-player made the game just tedious (doing All-Star on Hard with every character, challenges like that can go to hell). It comes down to execution, really, and I'd say Ultimate's way of doing things is just fine.

 

The image has Heavy and Gordon, but not Master Chief? Fail...

As for the topic, more the better. They can just turn Ultimate into live service and keep building upon it.