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Is online worth paying for?

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Pyr

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
1,053
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Somewhere Green
Difference is that food they have a reason to charge for, but Nintendo's online would remain the same whenever it was free or not. So that means you are paying for nothing
Source? Considering your extremely clear and obvious bias against anything Smash Bros Ultimate, or Ultimate's online, I want you to back up your claim with documented statistics and facts. How can you confirm that Nintendo's online would be exactly the same, in a wide sense, regardless of if it was free or not? Sourced, verifiable information. Go.

Everyone has a right to an opinion, but I'm tired of coming here, seeing you on every single thread even remotely mentioning Online, and even in threads not about online, spreading your personal view as if it's fact. It's not. You need to stop doing it.
 

Sans3546

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 5, 2018
Messages
55
I mean, it's just really odd for our experiences to be so drastically different. Granted, I wasn't at the 500k GSP range for my challenge for long, but I don't recall having ruleset-based issues there. I believe the main factor may just be the GSP because I did get off rulesets more often during the challenge, at various levels, then I get when doing something on a high-ranked character.
whatever is going on with you is not the case for me. i'm getting off rule sets 90% of the time even if i get placed in a 1v1. what i do know is that if i change my preferred rules to casual settings, i am guaranteed that, but there is so few people looking for competitive match ups that the matchmaking decides f*** it and puts me in these lousy four player matches i don't want to be in.
If that's truly the case, then you should see your issue subside as you get better. At 400-500k, you're about 4-5 wins from mid-1m levels.
people all the time tell me to "Git Gud, and raise your GSP to find better matchups." but not only is my training strictly based on competitive rule sets, these free for alls nearly always end the same way. i go on the offensive, and i get punished for doing so even if it was only for a split second. if i don't die as a result, i usually take an average of 50% damage because the mayhem of two people fighting locks off a bunch of landing options leaving the third player to have a field day with me as their sandbag. don't even get me started with the 3v1 matches i have had forced down my throat.

i'm even more helpless against anyone in a free for all. it also doesn't help that some of the items open up the possibility of death at 80% or even less sometimes, and certain stages with hazards on are no different than items. air dodging was nerfed to the ground by the way, so that adds to the problem as well. and to top it all off, my solo main, ness, is horrible at crowd control compared to hard hitting tanks like king k rool and ganondorf which really hurts my chances. the gsp system will not allow me to progress through it in battles that truly test your skill.

i can't progress through an army of free for all battles with items on. it's just not going to work in a million years. getting better at the game really wouldn't help me raise my gsp.
I know that practicing with off rulesets isn't very fruitful, so I'd suggest sticking to Arenas for now, for a while, until you reach a skill level where off rulesets no longer matter. I've been doing a lot of Arenas to improve characters without worrying about GSP, and I've yet to even see an off ruleset in 1v1 Vets and Glorious.
the thing about arenas is that it's extra hard to find someone of the same skill level. it's suffering the same issue as sm4sh's for glory option. with no system in place, everyone i meet either obliterates me, or i obliterate them, and the match ups are never fun even if the competitive rule sets are there consistently. arenas are often not fun to play in.
 
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SunnyD-Pad

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
6
I want to play online, but I've seen videos and most are saying that its bad so should I still purchase it?
Once you get into Elite there's not going to be players with bad connection most of the times, you need to reach more than 2.5 million GSP to achieve that, when you're on low ranks most of the times people plays with wi-fi connections and puts objects and doesn't remove stage hazards making the experience awful for the ones who want to get better at the game and a lot of videos on YouTube doesn't really show how online really is because these guys aren't even Elite players and say that is hard to beat those casuals but it isn't as long as you know what you do, in other words, if you're bad at the game you wont enjoy Smash Ultimate online mode and in my opinion is not as bad as people's say, at least I would say that's a better experience than For Glory once you become Elite.
 

R208

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 21, 2018
Messages
45
whatever is going on with you is not the case for me. i'm getting off rule sets 90% of the time even if i get placed in a 1v1. what i do know is that if i change my preferred rules to casual settings, i am guaranteed that, but there is so few people looking for competitive match ups that the matchmaking decides f*** it and puts me in these lousy four player matches i don't want to be in.

people all the time tell me to "Git Gud, and raise your GSP to find better matchups." but not only is my training strictly based on competitive rule sets, these free for alls nearly always end the same way. i go on the offensive, and i get punished for doing so even if it was only for a split second. if i don't die as a result, i usually take an average of 50% damage because the mayhem of two people fighting locks off a bunch of landing options leaving the third player to have a field day with me as their sandbag. don't even get me started with the 3v1 matches i have had forced down my throat.

i'm even more helpless against anyone in a free for all. it also doesn't help that some of the items open up the possibility of death at 80% or even less sometimes, and certain stages with hazards on are no different than items. air dodging was nerfed to the ground by the way, so that adds to the problem as well. and to top it all off, my solo main, ness, is horrible at crowd control compared to hard hitting tanks like king k rool and ganondorf which really hurts my chances. the gsp system will not allow me to progress through it in battles that truly test your skill.

i can't progress through an army of free for all battles with items on. it's just not going to work in a million years. getting better at the game really wouldn't help me raise my gsp.

the thing about arenas is that it's extra hard to find someone of the same skill level. it's suffering the same issue as sm4sh's for glory option. with no system in place, everyone i meet either obliterates me, or i obliterate them, and the match ups are never fun even if the competitive rule sets are there consistently. arenas are often not fun to play in.
It's really odd that you're getting 90% of the rulesets being off of what you want. I take that figure literally, of course. Technically, you should be getting your ruleset 50% of the time at all times, at least that's how the ruleset system appears to function. Here's something you can try:

1) If you did a digital download, try reinstalling the game entirely. Maybe something broke during the install/update process that didn't break things enough to prevent the game from loading.
2) Make another Switch profile and test rulesets/online with it to rule out your save as an issue (not 100% if it works like this).

As for training, take it offline for a bit. There are a ton of fundamental things you can practice offline, like spacing, zone control, reactionary options selection (not option selects), movement, etc. Believe me when I say that fundamentals can carry people a long way. Beat on a Level 1-7, form gameplans, and get really, really comfortable with Ness. After that, return Online and things will seem so much easier. I can promise you that one.

For FFA, I don't play Ness so I don't have specifics. To win FFAs in general, though, stay just barely within the fray. Not too far in, but far enough out to react to someone's approach and make it look like you're doing something and in the FFA. This completely removes focus from you in 2v1 and 3v1 situations. Run away as needed, but return ASAP. Soon you'll be the one on the 3 side of 3v1s. After that, it's easy to come in at least 2nd in a FFA, which is always a GSP gain. Not as fast as first place, but all increases are good for our purposes here.

And, considering you're forced into an FFA, all tactics are fair game. No matter how lame.

For items, play some CPU matches with all items on high, and focus on them. Get a feel of them. In your competitive life, the use is limited. It still helps to learn, though. Lets you deal with FFAs even more AND it helps in some Matchups, like Pac-Man, ROB, Peach/Daisy, etc. There is a lot of fun in Z-drop shenanigans, so it's not like dedicating time to the items in general is useless. It'll help.
 

InfiniteRE

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
63
In terms of getting what we are paying for, online isn't worth it. However it is a necessity, and nintendo choses to capitalize off that because... they can. Instead of me complaining about it, I just hope nintendo can use this money to help upgrade and overall make this online system better, if they can do that then I will have no problem paying. With the paid service still being new I am going to cut it some slack, but hopefully we can get a better online interface. (A little communication with my friends list would be nice. )
 
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LIL ELF

Best Smasher in North Pole
Joined
Dec 16, 2018
Messages
102
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North Pole
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I mean it's worth paying for if you dont wanna spend your entire smash ultimate career against CPU. It'll probably be more worth it once they release SNES and N64 game (If they do). But I wish it was free like it use to be because we're not getting much here.
 

Crazy Hand 2001

Banned via Warnings
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In terms of getting what we are paying for, online isn't worth it. However it is a necessity, and nintendo choses to capitalize off that because... they can. Instead of me complaining about it, I just hope nintendo can use this money to help upgrade and overall make this online system better, if they can do that then I will have no problem paying. With the paid service still being new I am going to cut it some slack, but hopefully we can get a better online interface. (A little communication with my friends list would be nice. )
You REALLY THINK they would improve online? They've not using dedicated servers ffs (even though peer to peer is better for 1v1 anyways)

The fact that Super Mario Party has such barebones online basically tells everyone what kind of online service Nintendo will make.

Source? Considering your extremely clear and obvious bias against anything Smash Bros Ultimate, or Ultimate's online, I want you to back up your claim with documented statistics and facts. How can you confirm that Nintendo's online would be exactly the same, in a wide sense, regardless of if it was free or not? Sourced, verifiable information. Go.
For the record, I like many things about Ultimate, including the fact that we can pick any music from any stage (so I can play Melee's fountain of dreams on green greens for example). But things such as unlockable characters seem a bit ridiculous.

You think that paid online has changed at all compared to the free trial? Like is there more lag or something? Super Mario Party is basically proof that the online wouldn't improve, as Nintendo barely had to pay anything to get it going. If they had to pay a lot for it to have online, you wager they would have added a lot more to it such as boards with friends.
 

Mischiiii

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 2, 2019
Messages
117
Location
Germany (Hessen)
Difference is that food they have a reason to charge for, but Nintendo's online would remain the same whenever it was free or not. So that means you are paying for nothing
Not quite. You get a bunch of old classics (more games get added as this goes on). Also you rent some hard disk space on Nintendos servers for cloud storage.

I get your concern but 20€ isn’t that much money to spend on a year of online subscription. It’s not as if you had a choice if you want to enjoy smash when your friends cant be at your house all the time or in some rare cases hav no frienss to play with. Level 9 CPUs get boring because they don’t adapt.

If there would be dedicated servers i would even pay more for this. I think it’s fine. But to each one it’s own. I don’t want to offend anyone or start a fight about this.
 

Pyr

Smash Lord
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Jul 7, 2014
Messages
1,053
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Somewhere Green
You REALLY THINK they would improve online? They've not using dedicated servers ffs (even though peer to peer is better for 1v1 anyways)

The fact that Super Mario Party has such barebones online basically tells everyone what kind of online service Nintendo will make.



For the record, I like many things about Ultimate, including the fact that we can pick any music from any stage (so I can play Melee's fountain of dreams on green greens for example). But things such as unlockable characters seem a bit ridiculous.

You think that paid online has changed at all compared to the free trial? Like is there more lag or something? Super Mario Party is basically proof that the online wouldn't improve, as Nintendo barely had to pay anything to get it going. If they had to pay a lot for it to have online, you wager they would have added a lot more to it such as boards with friends.
I asked for hard facts and you still give me anecdotal accounts. How surprising. /s
 

Sans3546

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 5, 2018
Messages
55
It's really odd that you're getting 90% of the rulesets being off of what you want. I take that figure literally, of course. Technically, you should be getting your ruleset 50% of the time at all times, at least that's how the ruleset system appears to function. Here's something you can try:

1) If you did a digital download, try reinstalling the game entirely. Maybe something broke during the install/update process that didn't break things enough to prevent the game from loading.
2) Make another Switch profile and test rulesets/online with it to rule out your save as an issue (not 100% if it works like this).
i have a hard copy of the game because my history with getting digital copies hasn't exactly been friendly to me for the reason you specified. i sought to avoid those types of problems. also, i already got the second suggestion, and tried it out. if it worked, i would have stopped seeking answers a while ago. as for the first statement, the figures i stated should be taken literally because that is literally what is happening to me. in a sample size i took of 100 battles, only 11 were my preferred rules.

i counted 100 matches with my main and recorded details. there were 74 free for all matches. 21 of them used all other preferred rules i had (not that it matters for playing competitively). there were 15 1v1 matches where the rules included timed battles, all items turned on, and/or stages in their default or hazardless forms. finally, there were only 11 where i got my preferred rules 100%. at the end of all of that, i remained within 50k of the gsp i started at because me winning in all 11 competitive matches was practically canceled by me taking last or third place in the casual matches.

technically i should be getting my preferred rules 50% of the time, but for some reason, i'm not.
As for training, take it offline for a bit. There are a ton of fundamental things you can practice offline, like spacing, zone control, reactionary options selection (not option selects), movement, etc. Believe me when I say that fundamentals can carry people a long way. Beat on a Level 1-7, form gameplans, and get really, really comfortable with Ness. After that, return Online and things will seem so much easier. I can promise you that one.

For FFA, I don't play Ness so I don't have specifics. To win FFAs in general, though, stay just barely within the fray. Not too far in, but far enough out to react to someone's approach and make it look like you're doing something and in the FFA. This completely removes focus from you in 2v1 and 3v1 situations. Run away as needed, but return ASAP. Soon you'll be the one on the 3 side of 3v1s. After that, it's easy to come in at least 2nd in a FFA, which is always a GSP gain. Not as fast as first place, but all increases are good for our purposes here.

And, considering you're forced into an FFA, all tactics are fair game. No matter how lame.

For items, play some CPU matches with all items on high, and focus on them. Get a feel of them. In your competitive life, the use is limited. It still helps to learn, though. Lets you deal with FFAs even more AND it helps in some Matchups, like Pac-Man, ROB, Peach/Daisy, etc. There is a lot of fun in Z-drop shenanigans, so it's not like dedicating time to the items in general is useless. It'll help.
thanks for the advice. i'll try learning items if it means i can hopefully do better in both my issue and competitive play, but honestly, the tactics you described are the ones i have been using. my overly aggressive ness obviously gets pummeled quickly, and camping either results in the 3v1s i talked about or leads to me getting booted from the game.

staying on the outskirts of the fray is the play style i eventually came to use, and while it helps me survive longer, it's still not good enough. it's harder to get the kill when you're competing against two other people for it. in a 1v1, back throw is an amazing kill move, but it's too slow to reliably kill in free for all. more than half are timed matches, and i need kills more than survivability to win those. with little capability of accumulating points, i'm almost always placed in the bottom half of the rankings.
 
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NathanD

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 2, 2019
Messages
16
I have played around 30-40ish hours online. For around .50 cents an hour it's been a worthwhile purchase to me. I'll probably get 300 at least this year. If you take the total cost to me (someone who already owned a switch) it will probably be 80/300$ so about a quarter an hour of quality entertainment. Compare that to the arcades I used to play marvel vs Capcom in and it's unbelievable how affordable this game is with online.

It's not perfect but much better when compared to the flaws of some of the movies that have come out that I payed around 10 dollars an hour to see.

I say one in ten games have a slight lag spot and maybe one in twenty are unplayably bad. I wish some things were different like I could add to my friends list some of the awesome people who I had long rematch streaks with but overall I'm happy.

If twenty dollars isn't much to you why wouldn't you? To protest? It's not going to get you anywhere. Better to play, figure out what the real flaws are, and start a movement with real critics of the online system once you fully understand it.
 

InfiniteRE

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
63
You REALLY THINK they would improve online? They've not using dedicated servers ffs (even though peer to peer is better for 1v1 anyways)

The fact that Super Mario Party has such barebones online basically tells everyone what kind of online service Nintendo will make.
I'm just trying to be a little more optimistic. Nintendo has never done a paid service before until recently so hopefully they will now have the resources to improve online. Companies like playstaion were able to make a better platform by using the paid service. I don't disagree with you, nintendo could do nothing and this is just a simple cash grab, but we will never know, no more excuses for nintendo.
 
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PapiLeche

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
1
Location
NYC
I would say it is worth it. The replay value you give a game by being able to play it online makes it a no brainer for me
 

lucasla

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 24, 2018
Messages
481
My situation is:
The game is playable in 85% of the 1v1 matches, being half of them with some sort of lag that I can ignore, and the other half pretty good matches.
The game is playable in only 25% of any match with 3 or 4 players. Most of them are more laggy than fun and I'm basically giving up on try it again. I bought a lan adapter and it changed nothing to me.

These are the same problems of Smash WiiU and the lack of dedicated servers on this date and the fact that now I need to pay to play just makes the problems worse.
I still think it kind of worths because I can play a lot of 1v1 matches - that are my preferred kind of online matches - without problem, but I can't enjoy matches with a friend online, cause all the time I try a local coop match of 2v2 the game becomes laggy and boring. I almost never find a good free for all match, so my experience with Smash online is limited to 1v1 matches and I'm not happy with that.

I also play Mario Kart 8 and Splatoon 2 online, and they run perfectly. I tryed Mario Tennis Aces online too and is as laggy as Smash in 4 player games to me, totally garbage and unplayable.

For me, I use the online specially for Smash in 1v1 matches, MK8 and Splatoon 2. In general the quality of the service is mediocre, but it's cheap and it allows me to play these games (or game modes), so I need it, but I don't like it.
 
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EGsmash

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 16, 2018
Messages
121
It's much more playable for me now than it was before the patch. I would put the experience now about on par with For Glory. I haven't been put in an FFA since the first week, and I only occasionally get a match with items or smash balls on. I did end up buying a highly-rated 3rd party network adapter and that's drastically cut down on the "a communication error has occurred" which was happening 3/4 of the time during quickplay, but only when I'm playing docked (obviously). I do still occasionally get that "you can't play because your network connection is bad blah blah blah" BS - sorry Nintendo, it's you, not me. But a quick exit and restart of the game clears that up every time.

BUT (there's always a but) the game does run much slower online, probably to balance out for connection speed. It's really no different from playing For Glory, but the result is that practicing your timings and spacing offline doesn't necessarily translate to results online. You end up running into people like me who just learn to play with the lag; buffering our inputs early and trying to make predictive reads to account for the lag. Then you also end up running into people who don't seem to be playing with lag at all and are able to react to you as if you're just playing a L9 CPU.

I've always had a sneaking suspicion that some online games actually use official bots to make it look like there's a larger player base than there is and to ensure human players always have someone to play against - I know that in For Glory if your opponent D/C'd then the control would switch over to the CPU for the remainder of the fight. I wonder if the same thing happens here?
 

perroloco

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
40
3DS FC
4398-9300-3061
I mean the $20 extra doesn't really add anything new (other than the NES games), but you require it to play online so... It's your call I guess..
I have had no problems with lag so far, only 1 or 2 matches that were outright unplayable out of probably 50, and I have "bad" internet (20 mb)
 

Coolboy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 27, 2018
Messages
382
Location
Netherlands
yeah online is fun! i have no preferences so i play either 1 VS 1 or 4 players match, even team battles can be fun and sometimes with items and others times not at all, i like having my variation cause only playing 1 VS 1 without items would get real boring to me...
 

Crazy Hand 2001

Banned via Warnings
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For me, I use the online specially for Smash in 1v1 matches, MK8 and Splatoon 2. In general the quality of the service is mediocre, but it's cheap and it allows me to play these games (or game modes), so I need it, but I don't like it.
Well you could choose to not subscribe until Nintendo makes it free.
 

Crazy Hand 2001

Banned via Warnings
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Not quite. You get a bunch of old classics (more games get added as this goes on). Also you rent some hard disk space on Nintendos servers for cloud storage.

I get your concern but 20€ isn’t that much money to spend on a year of online subscription. It’s not as if you had a choice if you want to enjoy smash when your friends cant be at your house all the time or in some rare cases hav no frienss to play with. Level 9 CPUs get boring because they don’t adapt.

If there would be dedicated servers i would even pay more for this. I think it’s fine. But to each one it’s own. I don’t want to offend anyone or start a fight about this.
Well it's not that much money but the money tells Nintendo that paid online is a great idea and you support terrible things such as how the subscription is replacing vitrual console. It also has nothing to do with playing the newest Mario Kart online for example.

I asked for hard facts and you still give me anecdotal accounts. How surprising.
Nintendo has nothing to pay for because the servers are peer to peer. Matchmaking servers barely cost anything. So it would be reasonable to conclude that the online wouldn't change whenever it was free or not.
 

Pyr

Smash Lord
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Nintendo has nothing to pay for because the servers are peer to peer. Matchmaking servers barely cost anything. So it would be reasonable to conclude that the online wouldn't change whenever it was free or not.
Just because the primary connection type is P2P doesn't mean there is no infrastructure there what-so-ever. Are you allergic to doing even the most basic, fundamental research? HARD FACTS. GET THEM. If you were to give anymore anecdotal "evidence" to try and "support" your "argument," I'd be able to start a flame war in the debate hall with the sheer audacity of your statements.
 

Luigifan18

Smash Master
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Messages
3,134
Switch FC
SW-5577-0969-0868
Just because the primary connection type is P2P doesn't mean there is no infrastructure there what-so-ever. Are you allergic to doing even the most basic, fundamental research? HARD FACTS. GET THEM. If you were to give anymore anecdotal "evidence" to try and "support" your "argument," I'd be able to start a flame war in the debate hall with the sheer audacity of your statements.
He's allergic to hard facts. His only debating "skill" is screaming the exact same things at the top of his lungs over and over again. He's barred from making threads about Nintendo's online service because of this.
 

SunnyD-Pad

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
6
:?::pow::?:
Once you get into Elite there's not going to be players with bad connection most of the times, you need to reach more than 2.5 million GSP to achieve that, when you're on low ranks most of the times people plays with wi-fi connections and puts objects and doesn't remove stage hazards making the experience awful for the ones who want to get better at the game and a lot of videos on YouTube doesn't really show how online really is because these guys aren't even Elite players and say that is hard to beat those casuals but it isn't as long as you know what you do, in other words, if you're bad at the game you wont enjoy Smash Ultimate online mode and in my opinion is not as bad as people's say, at least I would say that's a better experience than For Glory once you become Elite.
:?::pow::?:

:shyguy::shyguy::shyguy:

:beezo:Forget about what I said here, online is a mess and need to get fixed, if you want more detail of the reason why am I saying that I made a post here: https://smashboards.com/threads/global-smash-points-doesnt-matter.471444/
Probably you know it at this point because most of the players probably had a similar experience like me, just keep practicing, an insignificant stupid number won't determine how good you are on smash and I would recommend you grind up on local tournaments but if you have the opportunity to attend a local smash tournament then go for it.:beezo:

Good luck. :ness:
 
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Crazy Hand 2001

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So apparently no one can think of why the online for Smash Ultimate or Switch in general wouldn't be the same if it was free.

Therefore, I am correct that it would've been the same if it was free.
 
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Kookie

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 10, 2008
Messages
130
It's trash, don't support these companies charging you for basic functions of a game.
 

Crazy Hand 2001

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Why does anyone think paying for online means Nintendo would actually give a ****?

They didn't give a **** for Mario Party. Why would they give a **** now?
 
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