Is Luigi just trash in this game or something?

[StarLight42]

Not trying to troll, but the only things i've heard said about him are negative. I actually played a little bit of Luigi in Melee and Brawl, but I haven't even touched him in this game. He was pretty bad in Brawl, so if he's been nerfed, he's atrocious in this game.


Can somebody elaborate for me please?

 

[Luigi#1]

Well, to me he feels better, and it seems like he has more buffs than nerfs. But that's just me.

 

[Muhti]

Yes, he had nerfs with a lot of his moves. However, for me at least, he has a lot more mobility compared to Brawl and I was able to perform combos against other players easier than Brawl, which puts the match in my favor because I can easily juggle others in the air better than Brawl. The only thing I dislike about Luigi this time around is his recovery. It's good, but not as good compared to SSBB.

This is just my 2 cents though, others may say it is harder to juggle with him, he is harder to move because of him being floaty etc. etc.

 

[Donyoku]

If you want to know Luigi standing based on the communities opinion, just go into the Gameplay discussion thread and ask this question. No reason to make a thread about it and rub some Luigi players the wrong way over it.

 

[Yonder]

Oh, another "Luigi is terrible" topic. Very original.

Seriously, learn to adapt to the new Luigi's strengths and weaknesses in this game instead of passing him off as "atrocious".

 

[HotelWaffle]

He feels weaker in this game to me and hes slippery for some reason?

 

[Lime Cultivist]

Not at all.

 

[Shuckle89]

dem custom moves though. An instant 42% damage move with no start up lag whatsoever? whoa.

edit: Nvm, hadn't realised that was with gear.

 

[Minty_]

His forward Smash KO power was really nerfed. Even Mario's FS kills earlier (if sweetspotted), although, to be fair, Mario's was hugely buffed. On the up side, Luigi's comes out quicker than ever and has better range (I think) making it one of the fastest FSes in the game, if I'm not mistaken, while still having good KO power.

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

He has one of the best dthrows in the game.

However I do agree that he's just not that amazing. He still struggles with chars like ZSS (UGHH) and some ranged/projectile characters, but in the right hands, Luigi can be a nightmare for the opponent.

 

[warionumbah2]

nah you just suck. the character blossoms if you're good.

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

nah you just suck. the character blossoms if you're good.

Of course he does. Every character does; doesn't take away from the fact that he has many bad matchups in this game.

 

[warionumbah2]

Of course he does. Every character does; doesn't take away from the fact that he has many bad matchups in this game.

match ups mean nothing i see players time and time again beat characters which otherwise counter you. although this game is very match up heavy which i do agree.

but the OP said that he played a little bit of luigi meaning he has no right to claim that he sucks when he himself has yet to master luigi or at least know the green hero inside and out.

better yet he never touched him, instead of going off and testing him out he goes with what others say when i guarantee they haven't played luigi much.

 

[Augi Jr.]

Luigi is actually pretty fun to me. I main Rosalina, but Luigi has some really strong points in the game, and I think he'll grow to shine as the meta is developed.

What Luigi really has going for him is his sweet and easy combo abilities (his downthrow is almost unfair with the level of comboing it can do, especially at low percents) the other nice aspect is it seems to be much easier to pull off his Sweet-Spot UpB and just KO someone outright, much like Jigglypuff's rest. If you can time it just right it just goes kabam and kills easily, you just need a small delay in your opponents move.

His recovery is rather **** if you used both jumps, so his edge guarding game is terrible. If you have at least one jump at your disposal you can usually get back to the stage ok.

I'm practicing more with Luigi.... Throwing, specifically down, is his bread and butter. Appropriate spacing is key, and DownB is good disrupter to get your feet again. The biggest part is just getting Luigi to approach well enough. His dash attack, whild its extended hitbox can catch some off guard, it's highly punishable if they shield all the way through. So using it is iffy.... overall I like Luigi so far in this. It is very satisfying to Uppercut someone to oblivion.

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

Luigi is actually pretty fun to me. I main Rosalina, but Luigi has some really strong points in the game, and I think he'll grow to shine as the meta is developed.

What Luigi really has going for him is his sweet and easy combo abilities (his downthrow is almost unfair with the level of comboing it can do, especially at low percents) the other nice aspect is it seems to be much easier to pull off his Sweet-Spot UpB and just KO someone outright, much like Jigglypuff's rest. If you can time it just right it just goes kabam and kills easily, you just need a small delay in your opponents move.

His recovery is rather **** if you used both jumps, so his edge guarding game is terrible. If you have at least one jump at your disposal you can usually get back to the stage ok.

I'm practicing more with Luigi.... Throwing, specifically down, is his bread and butter. Appropriate spacing is key, and DownB is good disrupter to get your feet again. The biggest part is just getting Luigi to approach well enough. His dash attack, whild its extended hitbox can catch some off guard, it's highly punishable if they shield all the way through. So using it is iffy.... overall I like Luigi so far in this. It is very satisfying to Uppercut someone to oblivion.

His sweet spot up b is harder to land, especially aerial up b, and it kills later than it did in brawl It also has more landing lag

 

[Yonder]

Actually, I have yet to see a single actual credible Luigi player say he's the worst. Most of the at least decent Luigi mains here say he's mid tier, where I think he is too. Everyone else just doesn't play Luigi, so they throw him in the bottom as soon as they see "can't recover like Brawl, horrible". Lol.


EDIT: To post above: What? It for certain has LESS landing lag. Like its err..."NOT EVEN COMPARABLE!" for the SJP landing lag. If Luigi whiffs it in this game, he might have a chance to survive falling back. In Brawl, you're dead.

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

Actually, I have yet to see a single actual credible Luigi player say he's the worst. Most of the at least decent Luigi mains here say he's mid tier, where I think he is too. Everyone else just doesn't play Luigi, so they throw him in the bottom as soon as they see "can't recover like Brawl, horrible". Lol.


EDIT: To post above: What? It for certain has LESS landing lag. Like its err..."NOT EVEN COMPARABLE!" for the SJP landing lag. If Luigi whiffs it in this game, he might have a chance to survive falling back. In Brawl, you're dead.

I'd say hes mid tier, as well. He just struggles vs projectiles and ranged characters.

And no, it has more ending lag when compared with Brawl/Melee. It takes him forever to actually get back on his feet, not only that, but you were able to ledge cancel his landing up b in brawl, something that I can't seem to do in smash 4 for some reason.

EDIT: actually lemme test the ledge cancel part. I know you are able to do it in Project M. It's been a while since I've been in the lab with Brawl

EDIT 2: he can't ledge cancel sjp in brawl either.
But yes smash 4 luigi has more landing lag, if only by a half a second. Although, this is somewhat fixed because his up b doesn't send him up so high and thus reaches the ground faster

 

[ELRACj]

i rally enjoyed using luigi in smash. But right now my only problem is that if someone knocks me too far off the map, I probably won't make it back. I hope i am dumb and that this is fixable but i really can't use Luigi because of not being able to get to back on the map.

 

[Watulio]

I feel like his air speed has been reduced.

Anyways, here are his glaring nerfs when compared to brawl (in my experience):

-His luigi cyclone needs even more timing and you need to use inmediately after using your jump, rather than after a few frames.
-Also, the cyclone doesn't give you great horizontal speed like before, but I appreciate it's much higher knockback at the end
-His precious nair KO potential has been ruined. He could KO people at their 110's% before. Now it has to be higher than 150% to kill. The move also deals 2% less damage when hitting clean.
-They managed to make his karate chop even weaker.
-His green missile is barely useful and you can't use it for mind games anymore. To top that off, it deals less damage and it's 1/10th to get the misfire, which doesn't happen as frequently now.
-Down throw isn't as good to start combos (not for me atleast). I really liked the previous down throw.
-He has even less friction. Why?

 

[MM720]

At first I neglected Luigi, then I started playing him (since I main him in Melee and wanted to see how he was here) and suddenly thought he was amazing. Now I'm kinda stuck...

Luigi can do insane stuff via fair chains, upB combos and "chaingrabs", but he pretty much sucks at everything EXCEPT comboing. Aerials aren't good for anything except edgeguarding or assist in combos.

Then again I have a lot of experience with playing Luigi and his mechanics, and I can see that for those who do not know how to combo, Luigi may as well be trash (unskilled Luigi might as well be the easiest character for me to fight online).


I'd advise against picking Luigi unless you know how to play him well and have experience OR are willing to invest some time and frustration into learning him. Even if you DO know how to play him, he is outclassed by most of the other characters so you'll have a hard time against equally-skilled players.
Then again beating ZSS, Bowser, Mac and Rosalina as Luigi is so satisfying. He also has the best taunts in the game along with Falcon

 

[Yonder]

I'd say hes mid tier, as well. He just struggles vs projectiles and ranged characters.

And no, it has more ending lag when compared with Brawl/Melee. It takes him forever to actually get back on his feet, not only that, but you were able to ledge cancel his landing up b in brawl, something that I can't seem to do in smash 4 for some reason.

EDIT: actually lemme test the ledge cancel part. I know you are able to do it in Project M. It's been a while since I've been in the lab with Brawl

EDIT 2: he can't ledge cancel sjp in brawl either.
But yes smash 4 luigi has more landing lag, if only by a half a second. Although, this is somewhat fixed because his up b doesn't send him up so high and thus reaches the ground faster

My bad, I read that last post as in Luigi hits the ground quicker in Brawl than SSB4. Not the actual getting up portion which yes, is slower.

 

[GroundZero996]

I really feel like Luigi is up there with Mario. Everything he does it extremely non-committal, so even when you can hit him it's incredibly hard to land kill moves. His Jabs and Dtilt are incredibly fast and have so little lag. His DThrow is amazing, and he can put up a really strong fireball wall. Fsmash is really good and I've yet to see a luigi that has any trouble putting on tons of damage really fast.

Playing against Luigi is a lot like playing against a good Yoshi IMO. It takes a ton of patience.

 

[Yonder]

What I don't get with people is why people always place Mario 3 tiers higher than Luigi when they play similar. Mario is better in this one sure, but the gap between them is always ridiculous. Mario is only 1-2 spots above Luigi.

And the people who rank Doc higher than both...when he is the worst of the 3.

 

[GroundZero996]

What I don't get with people is why people always place Mario 3 tiers higher than Luigi when they play similar. Mario is better in this one sure, but the gap between them is always ridiculous. Mario is only 1-2 spots above Luigi.

And the people who rank Doc higher than both...when he is the worst of the 3.

ANyone who is making tiers for Sm4sh already is out of their minds. Not only do we have so much to learn, but Sakurai is more than capable of making balance patches.

 

[Yonder]

ANyone who is making tiers for Sm4sh already is out of their minds. Not only do we have so much to learn, but Sakurai is more than capable of making balance patches.

Of course no tier list is going to be super accurate at this point, but people will make general views like Rosalina top, Palutena bottom, etc etc. I mean, look at Sonic and Olimar's placement originally. High, mid, and low tiers are a big mess right now, I wouldn't put too much weight into tiers except like top 3 or so [Rosalina, ZSS, Sheik] which seems accurate.

 

[GroundZero996]

Of course no tier list is going to be super accurate at this point, but people will make general views like Rosalina top, Palutena bottom, etc etc. I mean, look at Sonic and Olimar's placement originally. High, mid, and low tiers are a big mess right now, I wouldn't put too much weight into tiers except like top 3 or so [Rosalina, ZSS, Sheik] which seems accurate.

Who would put Palutena at the bottom? I mean she hasn't been tearing it up, but shes put on plenty of good showings in 3DS tournaments.

 

[Yonder]

Who would put Palutena at the bottom? I mean she hasn't been tearing it up, but shes put on plenty of good showings in 3DS tournaments.

Pretty much everyone? I agree too, with her default moveset anyways. Maybe she's better with her custom moves. I don't judge by customs though so that's how I see it.

 

[GroundZero996]

Pretty much everyone? I agree too, with her default moveset anyways. Maybe she's better with her custom moves. I don't judge by customs though so that's how I see it.

Her custom moves really are more like her normal moveset though. Her defaults are just fine though IMO. Auto Reticle could be a little less laggy or have a little more range, but it still has it's uses IMO. Counters are always useful in Smash 4, and Teleport and Reflect are both serviceable.

Her normals are pretty amazing. Her tilts are a little slow so you can't just throw them out, but if they hit they have good knockback and damage. Her 1st jab is amazing, comboing into a grab, and her aerial game is really good.

 

[ELRACj]

If i could not get a notification on Palutena in a Luigi forum that would be nice...

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

His forward Smash KO power was really nerfed. Even Mario's FS kills earlier (if sweetspotted), although, to be fair, Mario's was hugely buffed. On the up side, Luigi's comes out quicker than ever and has better range (I think) making it one of the fastest FSes in the game, if I'm not mistaken, while still having good KO power.

If you angle Forward Smash downwards or upwards, its potency as a KO move increases.

Fsmash Upwards: Raises ability to KO at the top blastzone by about 10-15%.
Fsmash Neutral: Worst ability to KO, but slightly increases horizontal range of the attack.
Fsmash Downwards: Raises ability to KO at the side blastzones by about 10-15%.

Luigi is probably going to end up being Low Tier, but not bottom tier. In fact, I feel as though his potential is higher than Mario's/Dr. Mario's (whom I feel as though is bottom tier). Luigi has range problems, trouble KOing, trouble approaching, slow air speed, bad traction, among other problems. However, his strengths over Mario include better damage output, better zoning with fireballs, better jab, better techchases with Down B and Forward B, better aerials, probably one of the best Dthrows in the game for true combos and dealing damage (overall), better recovery, and being harder to approach than Mario.

And there's always Up B, which is one of the strongest KO moves in the game. Despite it being ridiculously unsafe if you miss. And you can combo into an aerial Up B after a Dthrow at certain percents.

 

[GroundZero996]

I think people are too stuck on tiers. With so many characters I think Sm4sh will be more about match ups than tiers. Luigi has some really good MUs imo, and some really really bad ones. Luigi is the sniper character you pick to take down a player who favors one of Luigi's strong MUs.

 

[GreenFlame]

I think people are too stuck on tiers. With so many characters I think Sm4sh will be more about match ups than tiers. Luigi has some really good MUs imo, and some really really bad ones. Luigi is the sniper character you pick to take down a player who favors one of Luigi's strong MUs.

Can you give me an example of one of Luigi's strongest matchups? Just wondering what his good matchups are, so I can go Luigi in For Glory at the right times.

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

Can you give me an example of one of Luigi's strongest matchups? Just wondering what his good matchups are, so I can go Luigi in For Glory at the right times.

I think Luigi's strongest matchup is Kirby. He does well vs Ike, as well. Other than that, I'm not too sure; I need to play this game more

 

[GroundZero996]

Can you give me an example of one of Luigi's strongest matchups? Just wondering what his good matchups are, so I can go Luigi in For Glory at the right times.

I think he does pretty well against heavy characters or similarly (to Luigi) floaty characters. His spike is pretty quick and easy to land and his jabs work really well on floaties. Heavy characters Luigi can combo for a little longer, and he can still kill them at around the same time.

 

[Hukster]

I think Luigi is a good character in this game, I just feel no one is giving him a chance for now. He can rack up damage well on most characters.

 

[crazyhandmasterhand]

Agreed. I think there are just not enough Luigis compared to other characters to really get a good measure on how his performance really is at the moment. I don't think he's Top Tier by any means but for crying out loud look at how much Jigglypuff jumped up in Melee once she got some real exposure.

 

[Yonder]

I think Luigi is really good against Fox myself. His projectile can only rack damage as opposed to keep you away, leaving their range about the same. He is very easy to spike during his Up B off stage, and Luigi can combo Fox to hell and back. I've have nothing but good results with it so far anyways. Fox only outspeeds Luigi movement wise, but that's about it.

I think Luigi is going to be one of those neglected characters and will always be underrated. It is Luigi after all lol. He'll be in bottom tier for sure starting out, bottom 5 for sure [not true though]. Then he'll rise to about high low tier after a while after more people try him out due to his bottom tier status and discover his true strengths. I think he should be middle of the mid, but I don't know if he will ever get there, unless there is a strong Luigi player in tourneys or a knowledgeable Luigi player in the backroom

 

[GreenFlame]

I think Luigi is really good against Fox myself. His projectile can only rack damage as opposed to keep you away, leaving their range about the same. He is very easy to spike during his Up B off stage, and Luigi can combo Fox to hell and back. I've have nothing but good results with it so far anyways. Fox only outspeeds Luigi movement wise, but that's about it.

I think Luigi is going to be one of those neglected characters and will always be underrated. It is Luigi after all lol. He'll be in bottom tier for sure starting out, bottom 5 for sure [not true though]. Then he'll rise to about high low tier after a while after more people try him out due to his bottom tier status and discover his true strengths. I think he should be middle of the mid, but I don't know if he will ever get there, unless there is a strong Luigi player in tourneys or a knowledgeable Luigi player in the backroom

Yeah, unfortunately Sakurai just won't Luigi have his day (in a Smash game), but Nintendo let him have his year xD!

Anyway, I haven't fought a Fox with Luigi yet, but doesn't Fox have fast falling speed aka he's a perfect combo target? And I can imagine it would be easy to spike him because of his slow recovery. Fox seems like one of Luigi's good matchups.

 

[Yonder]

Oh geez, if Luigi ever became a top tier..I would be sad. He would be so overplayed, that's what detracted me from Meta Knight in Brawl. I liked Meta Knight's character, but I wouldn't use him due to his status. In Smash 4, MK seems well balanced [as in terrible everything sans damage racking and edgeguarding lol]. The highest I would want Luigi is low high tier.

 

[GreenFlame]

Oh geez, if Luigi ever became a top tier..I would be sad. He would be so overplayed, that's what detracted me from Meta Knight in Brawl. I liked Meta Knight's character, but I wouldn't use him due to his status. In Smash 4, MK seems well balanced [as in terrible everything sans damage racking and edgeguarding lol]. The highest I would want Luigi is low high tier.

Exactly. I still think Sakurai should have made Luigi viable for those who love to play him. I play Luigi because I like the character in the Mario series and in Smash. Wherever the tier list puts him, I'll still play him. I didn't care what the tier lists said about him in Brawl, and I don't care now.

Because he's...my Weegee... *bursts into tears of joy*