Is Link tourny viable in Brawl?

[rageagainst]

I know that overall he is worse than his melee counterpart, who was somewhat tourny viable, but is Brawl link tourny viable? Being worse than his mid-tier counterpart would automatically make some people say "no," but I also want to take into consideration how he places up against the rest of the cast.

There certainly isn't anyone who destroys him like how melee fox destroyed melee link, since the most powerful characters aren't as disturbingly powerful as the high tiers in melee. So what do you guys think?

 

[hippochinfat!!]

So long, farewell
Au revoir, Auf Weidersehen.

I'd like to stay and taste my first champagne. Yes?

No.

So there's your answer.

 

[Skler]

Link gets destroyed by top tiers far worse than he did in Melee. Try playing against a camping ROB, TL or Falco. 3 matchups Link pretty much won't win if the opponent feels like camping.

Link does fine vs Snake and Olimar though, so he isn't total garbage.

 

[metaXzero]

Haha. I made a thread just like this in the Kirby section.

But yeah. Things aren't looking bright right now. And a lot of people will just grab Toon Link instead.

 

[Joeshi]

Well i secondary Link i think im pretty good with him. I wouldnt say hes garbage i personally think any char can beat the other in this game its all how you do it. I mean with my Link ive beaten Falcos, R.O.Bs, Foxs, Wolfs and TLs. I think its all how you approach the enemy. I find spamming the boomerang and arrows are my best shot to any match it keeps the opponent guessing. Even chars like spacies who reflect attacks have a hard time defending against a barrage of arrows n boomerangs. I also find Links side step fast and good so it can be easy to dodge close attacks. Now look i know ppl will disagree i come to expect it but i dont think link isnt tourney viable cause you can win with any character. I feel Brawl is to balanced for tiers infact i dont believe in tiers at all, and please ppl lets not make this an argument about tiers im just lettin you know why i feel link is tourney viable cause as long as you got the skillz wit link you got the win! And you can face any character!

 

[Ban Heim]

Yes, he's a viable tourney character. Pretty much anyone is in Brawl. The gap between characters isn't as big as it was in melee, and since more of the game relies on playing smart rather than playing technical, any character can do well as long as the player is skilled with the character.

 

[orintemple]

I wouldnt say hes garbage i personally think any char can beat the other in this game its all how you do it.

Yea it is possible for any character to beat any character at any level of play except the top. That is what the tier list is for, to see who the best characters are in a battle where both players do everything perfectly.

In Melee, a literally PERFECT Fox would beat any other perfect characters because he was the highest tier.

Of course perfection doesn't exist, but in top level play it is near that, making tiers extremely viable.

That being said Brawl is much easier to be good at than Melee in the first place so evenly skilled players are much more common.

 

[Skler]

Brawl is less balanced than Melee, you people are silly. Look at Brawl's metagame and tell me Ganondorf stands a chance against a campy ROB, TL, Snake, Falco or Wolf. The next person who says Brawl is balanced should try playing Ganondorf in a money match. Not to hate on ganon, but he's the poster boy for sucking in Brawl.

Link isn't in that terrible of a position because he has projectiles, but he still can't deal with certain spam. Link gets ***** hard in some of his matchups, harder than he ever did in Melee (unless you were against a sheik on FD, but that's just crazy).

I may be negative, but I'm not saying Link isn't tournament viable. I'm just saying Link is only useful in a few matchups against the better characters. He has favorable matchups against all the really bad ones (not that anybody uses those anyways).

 

[Chip.]

Hi Skler! =D

 

[Deleted member]

link is a beast until you have to recover....
YOU CAN'T RECOVER!!!! **** you sakurai T_T

 

[•Col•]

Link gets destroyed by top tiers far worse than he did in Melee. Try playing against a camping ROB, TL or Falco. 3 matchups Link pretty much won't win if the opponent feels like camping.

Link does fine vs Snake and Olimar though, so he isn't total garbage.

o_O Link can outcamp most other characters... Against a camping TL???? Link's projectiles is the ONE advantage he has over his younger counterpart... And whenever someone tries to camp me while I'm playing Link, I usually just crouch and block their projectiles with his shield until they get fed up... xD

 

[Aurashade]

brawl is more balanced in the fact that items are way more powered and all the characters suck for the most part.


You don't play brawl for the vs. mode or story or whatever, no one ever has or ever will. You play brawl to look at all the fancy trophies. That's why no one ever played the first one. god you people know nothing

 

[Chill]

Let's contribute something to the topic at hand besides bitter sarcasm okay?

 

[Catmunnies]

Teirs don't exist.

 

[WR3K]

give it some time and some good link players

 

[JonBeBonanza]

you just have to know how to play link. If you go in spamming the hell out of smash attacks and connecting, that is not skill. Link still has his **** Nair which i am glad, it seems as effective as in melee. Another thing is his Up B, what he lost in spike he makes up for in the ability to charge ( which yes, can kill at considerable %). And again the transition from melee link to brawl link isn't too harsh (as with other characters).

Heres a vid of me and a friend not as much...

Before you watch the vid, when you hear sonic vs. link you think...?
Well yeah you would be right, as i killed myself twice for being a dumb@55 (srry if i have no patience -_-). But anyways the main thing i want you guys to look at is the Nair at i think 1:29... i've been able to beat chars. like marth (who ***** link in speed and mobility), zelda ( who is sooo broken ), and luigi (who ***** everyone in priority) all becaus of NAIR, in that match, had i been a second or two more patient on the edge, sonic would have died.

LINK NAIR! (click the red part)


But to answer your question YES link is tournament viable... the real question is... are you o_O?

 

[ZeldaGamer14]

Sadly I don't think we will be able to bring him to tourneys. I am not a horrible Link player at all. From the many people I've played they say that I was the best Link they've played. But sadly as good as I think I am with Link, Falco,Fox,Wolf,Marth,etc always seem to be able to wreck me unless I get lucky and they screw up. If I were ever to go to a tourney I'd probably use TL as he is my second main.

 

[MrPhox]

link can't give shielders a lot of pressure. in a close fight, grabs are missed frequently. link's is too punishable that it can't be used in conventional means. this allows characters with strong shields to just shield all the time uncontested. Which completely ruins his close game. So then you are really just stuck at mid to long range. I truly believe that link should be dancing in and out of long range. but seriously, arrows bombs and boomerangs are easy to block with your shield. it's smarter to shield them. especially the bomb and the boomerang.

i think link can't matchup against ganondorf well. which doesn't seem like the case at first, but if you play for a while think about it:

strong shield
3 fast approaches
fights at midrange
strong so he can punish missed grabs

ganondorf can shield all day and link can't break it.
if he keeps himself just outside link's clawshot range he can disect you
dash attack through arrows, comes to quick to react with boomerang
gets you before you can pull out a bomb
can wizard kick you if you shorthop bombpull
he can just SHIELD everything
link's shield dies fast against ganondorf.
link is too slow out of his shield, you have to dodge all the time.
if you get into a rhythm while fighting ganondorf and dodge his neutral and forward/down tilts on a regular basis, he WILL punish you with his Fsmash. it is delayed and if he times it right you can't dodge a second time. taking it in the shield with hold you in shield and nearly break it. there is no way to predict at that distance if he is just going to outright Fsmash you or just punch.

if link had a faster out of shield attack
a less punishable grab
and a slightly stronger shield

you could use either method of blocking or dodging more often, which would switch things up enough to make link VIABLE. but he can't, so your opponent can rely on you dodging ALWAYS, and never worry about grabs so there is no pressure for him shielding right in front of you.

as link, if you ever get an obvious opportunity to grab, you really should just be forward smashing. grabs can't combo in this game and his does like nothing for damage. doesn't give you as much space from your opponent as a forward smash.

his recovery is terrible. his upB is terrible...
he may SEEM better at first, but he is worse.
galeforce has yet to show anything of great use.
shielding, rolling and dodging will avoid it's pull.
also just walking out of it.

usually my opponents just ride it in to **** me.
why would link, a ranged character who wants space, pull people into him???
when riding links galeforce timing your dodge is REALLY OBVIOUS. so pulling them into your attack is so rare. and if you EVER want to just use it like a regular boomerang, you have to be pretty close and risk the possibility of them riding it in to you.

best bet.
bombs bombs bombs bombs.
bomb drop/catch
sex kick

apply pressure by dropping bombs on shields to hold enemies in place
if they dodge drop the sex kick
or
pull out dair and bounce or shield
catch the bomb go through them with nair
drop neutral air when they drop sheild
all possibilities. it seems pretty safe so far, but only if you mix it up and jump through them so they can't just shieldgrab you. the bomb also scares them from tyring to grab but...doesn't always work out


my friend and i have played together for a while and are really comfortable.

 

[Legan]

Link will be tourney worthy just give him some time. Theres no recent tourney footage of any links that apply the knowledge and new techniques that have been discovered. Links Nair is nowhere near as effective as it was in melee. It's not that great in brawl but decent when used at the right times. Ive also come to realize that everything about the gale boomerang is amazing and if you cant realize that then you dont have a very good understanding of this character.

 

[FrostByte]

Link does have some pretty good spammability though and can shut down opponents who approach from the air and ground. Full jump bomb pull, double jump arrow, arrow, shorthop bomb throw, double jump arrow, arrow. That covers a lot of space on the stage. Only trouble is superspammy characters like pit or fast characters.

 

[JonBeBonanza]

as link, if you ever get an obvious opportunity to grab, you really should just be forward smashing. grabs can't combo in this game and his does like nothing for damage. doesn't give you as much space from your opponent as a forward smash.

I strongly disagree. You can easily pull of something like down grab>Up-tilt> into bair. As for spacing i always run in there with Zair's sure they may not have as much range as samus,but it keeps you opponents at bay, while doing a nice 6 or so %.

his recovery is terrible. his upB is terrible...
he may SEEM better at first, but he is worse.

At first his recovery used to piss the **** out of me, which led me to the conclusion that link has no hops, but as time progressed I've found my self saying: "I can't believe he made it". Look at the video in my previous post at around 1:36 he makes a pretty big jump with his upB, you'll find it getting you out of some sticky situations. And especially since bomb jumping with him is extinct, and his "tether" has great range, its really you're ONLY chance at recovery, but it may be more surprising than you think.

Links Nair is nowhere near as effective as it was in melee. It's not that great in brawl but decent when used at the right times.

Again i disagree... edge guarding with FF'ed nair (sex kick, to those wondering) is ****... i still find at as useful as it was in melee, and again is a great edge guard. But yeah i know you said right times, but it is completely viable as a stand alone attack.

Ive also come to realize that everything about the gale boomerang is amazing and if you cant realize that then you dont have a very good understanding of this character.

galeforce has yet to show anything of great use.

"then you dont have a very good understanding of this character."

There is some weird mechanic to the way the gale boomerang works ( and I'm too lazy to find out). I've killed with the bommerang, it swept my opponent of his feet (literally), well swept him off the stage at least... i think theres a video of this happening on youtube somewhere ( once again laziness has taken the best of me, CURSE YOU). But yeah the boomerang has some inexplicable potential... but to call it "useless" to a sense, shouldn't be said just yet.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Link just has some problems in Brawl. Like say, recovering...

-Ter

 

[Heevar_Lewlson]

I've killed with the bommerang, it swept my opponent of his feet (literally), well swept him off the stage at least...

I've done that quite a few times. I captured a bunch of matches today against an Ike I play regularly, I'll see if I can find one where it happens

EDIT: Hmmm, nope can't find any. There's a couple times where the boomerang makes him move in a wonky way that catches him off guard, but nothing where pulling him off resulted in him dying.

 

[AmigoOne]

For some reason, at the end of its range for the Gale boomerang, it doesn't hit, it only pushes. Is that what you guys are talking about?

 

[Heevar_Lewlson]

For some reason, at the end of its range for the Gale boomerang, it doesn't hit, it only pushes. Is that what you guys are talking about?

There's that, and also when you throw it past them and it catches them and pulls them towards you as it returns (if they don't dodge or shield)

 

[AmigoOne]

Is that what you guys are trying to do? Or talking about?

 

[JonBeBonanza]

Is that what you guys are trying to do? Or talking about?

It's some weird game mechanic, but what happened when i did it was: I threw the boomerang, he dodged the first throw, but on the way back he (marth) started using the dancing blade and the boomerang caught him and i jumped over the boomerang do it went under me and swept him off..we were near the edge f.y.i

But it's weird, but in no means is it useless.

 

[Mr Mattastic]

I believe anybody is tourney viable, the most tourney viable character is whoever you are best with. You'll probaly win alot more matches with Link that you would whomever is finally listed as the top teir.

 

[Heevar_Lewlson]

It's some weird game mechanic, but what happened when i did it was: I threw the boomerang, he dodged the first throw, but on the way back he (marth) started using the dancing blade and the boomerang caught him and i jumped over the boomerang do it went under me and swept him off..we were near the edge f.y.i

But it's weird, but in no means is it useless.

Yeah, it's real gratifying when it pulls off a char like Ike, if he accidentally does an aerial because he was hitting the button while he thought he was still on the ground, he's done I wouldn't count on it to happen most of the time, but it never hurts to throw it out there just in case. Gives them one more thing to try and keep track of, with a feel good punish if they mess up pretty bad

 

[Skler]

Link may be useful against Snake, Metaknight and the bad characters. As far as matchups against top tiers (and even the high tiers) go Link gets ***** pretty bad. My motivation to play Brawl dropped quite a bit after playing in two Brawl tournies, but I'll keep playing in them (although maybe not with Link as main, but as a counter for certain characters).

 

[Chip.]

C'mon Skler Link is not that bad. Your good with him so you should know. ^_^

Plus Link does well against Marth, Gaw, Meta, and sorta Snake. Link does well against anyone without projectiles. Spamming charachters win at this game lol.

anyway, how's it going?

 

[Skler]

I'm not sure about meta. Tornado goes through a lot of crap and is really hard to punish with Link's slow out of shield game. Then again I counterpick meta since I don't like dealing with his crap.

I just got back from two Brawl tournaments, the game is upsetting to say the least. Camping is way too good and playing competitively just isn't fun. I picked Falco vs a DDD and all I did was shoot lasers and CG, an easy 2 stocking every time. Thorn did the same thing and almost beat M2K (like high % last stock every time). Things like that shouldn't happen.

Link vs Snake is pretty interesting though, but that ftilt is really beast. It takes a lot of spaced clawshots to wear through his shield and he just keeps walking forward while shielding into ftilts! Obnoxiously long matchup to say the least since nobody can land a KO move for the life of them.

Edit: It's going fine, but the more I play Brawl competitively the more I hate it. Melee is just more fun and interesting at high levels. I didn't place badly in the tournies but I can't stand what the game becomes.

 

[Chip.]

Yeah but don't forget that bombs go straight through tornado. Whenever I play Meta I always pull a bomb at the beginning of the match to make sure they don't just spam SideB and tornado (as toon Link of course ). =]


yeah brawls kinda lame lol. Maybe it's not that bad but whenever I think of how amazing Melee was I get all sad. Melee's too fun. The thing is though I win more at Brawl than at Melee (I actually get money from winning a big tournament lol).

btw happy birthday in like an hour!

 

[Lunar6]

the more I play Brawl competitively the more I hate it.

Somewhere out there, Sakurai laughs maniacally. He's won.

 

[ImpactAR]

ON THE ISSUE OF TALKING ABOUT LINK'S MOVES

Nair is quite bad now compared to Melee's. No where near as abusable as it use to be. It is no "****." Edgeguarding with it only works with a few characters.

If you take the time to set up for it you opponent has time to see that and keep track of it him / her self. Don't tell anyone they don't know how to use the whirlwind and know Link because you had some once-in-a-while, random luck with the whirlwind. I play Link extensively and IMO I think actively using the whirlwind is foolish.

If have the an wide opening ARE better off smashing and NOT grabbing. Following up with an attack after a throw only works on people who don't know what they are doing. A throw does 7% and punches within it does 2%. A good player can get out throws before you even throw out a punch if they are below 60%.

ON THE ISSUE OF LINK IN TOURNAMENTS

Link can do well in certain match ups within a tournament. If you play Link straight through a tournament your likeihood of winning is very slim.

You have to control the factors that makes Link "bad." Which is HIS RECOVERY. And you do this by playing on the right stage.

Of course the flow of the tournament won't always let you pick the "right" stage. If you and your opponent cannot agree on a stage that favors Link the first match than you may be better off playing another character. However, if you are counter picking, using Link is viable.

If you can pick the right stage that doesn't require emphasis on recovery that will shadow Link's weakness. If the stage is fairly wide and a low ceiling it will highlight Link's strength.

 

[Deleted member]

idk if i like brawls competitive play more than melee's or not, i do hate the fact that brawl is slower and has nearly no AT

 

[Aurashade]

Somewhere out there, Sakurai laughs maniacally. He's won.

This statement made me roll on the floor laughing, because just last night my friends and I were complaining about Skler's very same situation. good stuff.

 

[JonBeBonanza]

So in the end when we each have our own pros and cons as to "if link is tournament viable", in summation it seems to be a yes rather than a no, right?

 

[Heevar_Lewlson]

Viable? Probably, though admittedly I was completely oblivious to the inner workings of the tournament/competitive scene, but from what I've seen and played of Link so far, it seems like he might have a chance. You'll definitely have your work cut out for you though

On a brighter note, here's a once in a lifetime Gale Boomerang awesome I happened to do today http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Jg1CZ9ARFk

 

[Lunar6]

^That seemed awfully situational.