is K Rool broken?

ZarroTsu

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
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240
#41
I find it a bit frustrating trying to read through topics for a matter of detail on how to punish characters, only for players to throw up a "he can be punished severely" wall with zero details as to how.

Currently I'm in a frustrating position of having trouble getting in on K.Rool consistently. When I do get in he's combo food sure, but I'm additionally having trouble securing a kill. Logically I look for moves I can punish, but a K.Rool throwing crown into cannon is difficult to approach in a meaningful way, especially if they camp under a platform. If I try to abuse shield, I am quickly grabbed and down-thrown and have to murder my controller to break out before I get just killed. That's a little annoying. Just a little. And it is very often he lives upward of 200% and can just recover low with a janky propeller hitbox on his upB.

So please explain smash gurus of legend, how to punish K Rool "severely"?
 

link2702

Smash Champion
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#42
...he and rob might actually be...


...i hate to say that because I’ve defended krool quite a bit...but things can change the more you use the character...
 
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WumboTheSecond

Thief of Hearts
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Dec 12, 2018
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#43
K. Rool isn't broken in my opinion. Don't get me wrong he's extremely annoying especially with the parries but I don't think it's to the point of him being broken. The UpB is a little much though

]
...he and rob might actually be...


...i hate to say that because I’ve defended krool quite a bit...but things can change the more you use the character...
Is Rob that bad? I haven't really noticed I guess
 

link2702

Smash Champion
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#44
]

Is Rob that bad? I haven't really noticed I guess
im probably gonna be hated for this, I’ve been going back and forth on whether I should post it...but if I don’t someone else will find it and do so...

Use a bury throw and immediately hit the opponent with the first hit of jab then wait.

Pay attention to what happens...

...
 

WumboTheSecond

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#45
im probably gonna be hated for this, I’ve been going back and forth on whether I should post it...but if I don’t someone else will find it and do so...

Use a bury throw and immediately hit the opponent with the first hit of jab then wait.

Pay attention to what happens...

...
I don't have my Switch with me but I'm verrrry interested. Do you have a video?
 

link2702

Smash Champion
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#46
No. But let’s just say you get a near(maybe true at mid+ %’s ) guaranteed regrab to bury....

... so I guess it’s outta the bag now.
 

link2702

Smash Champion
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#48
Yesterday. It seems weak hits during a bury force the buried characters to always stay grounded after breaking free. They will never pop into the air when they break free...they’ll still be in enough stun animation to get another grab on em.

At least with rob and krool.

I’m gonna go hide now before the storm hits ...
 

WumboTheSecond

Thief of Hearts
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#49
Yesterday. It seems weak hits during a bury force the buried characters to always stay grounded after breaking free. They will never pop into the air when they break free...they’ll still be in enough stun animation to get another grab on em.

At least with rob and krool.

I’m gonna go hide now before the storm hits ...
This is gonna be great. People have been double teaming me in duos with two K Rools anyways online so this sucks. Let the mirror matches begin
 

link2702

Smash Champion
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#50
Possibly false alarm guys... took the plunge for research and signed up for online to test it...real opponents seem to be able to grab immediatly out of it.

Sorry for getting folks hope up.

On the bright side though, y’all know how to force a ground release on buried opponents
 

StormC

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
7,292
#51
Anyone who wants to beat K. Rool needs to exploit his weak neutral. He really relies on an opening to build momentum, otherwise you just hope you can pressure with the crown.
 
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Royta

Smash Journeyman
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Netherlands, Bilthoven
#52
Currently I'm in a frustrating position of having trouble getting in on K.Rool consistently. When I do get in he's combo food sure, but I'm additionally having trouble securing a kill. Logically I look for moves I can punish, but a K.Rool throwing crown into cannon is difficult to approach in a meaningful way, especially if they camp under a platform. If I try to abuse shield, I am quickly grabbed and down-thrown and have to murder my controller to break out before I get just killed. That's a little annoying. Just a little. And it is very often he lives upward of 200% and can just recover low with a janky propeller hitbox on his upB.
Let's take it one step at a time. You want details, here they are:

- you can grab the crown in mid-air, and do all sorts of stuff with it. You can just keep it and remove the move from him entirely or drop it near the ledge to negate his UpB (Crown pickup has prio, so he can't grab the ledge, he'll grab the crown - easy stagespike). If you're Villager you can just pocket it and he'll lose the move for his whole stock (or until you die, whichever comes first).

- both the crown and canon have insane start-up and recovery, you can do a full jump over it and still punish him. I can understand that this is harder online, but it is how it is.

- about his recovery, I'd say it is among the weakest, but like with many of his tools, you need to learn how to deal with them. Not everything is easy to pick up on on the spot. His UpB has very predictable recovery with little wiggleroom, so he can be stage-spiked easily. If he recovers from below, drop down and Fair him. If he's falling from above, wait at the edge. If he drops down to recover from below - beware the projectiles and dropdown and Fair, he's dead. If he recovers from the top, punish him with a Usmash or UAir. If he recovers from the absolute bottom of the stage, jump down and Bair him. Ironically K.Rool is best at punishing his own recovery, with his Bair being a great tool against him. If you let K.Rool get more than 200% damage that's all on you. The second he's off the ledge he is as good as dead in the hands of a good foe.

- for his down-throw, make a controller setup that replaces the taunts with shield and mash that D-pad. Easy on the hands and the controller.

- he's a big character, abuse it. Only his stomach has armor so your best bet is to do short-hop attacks that are safe on block. He can't deal with that, especially from Sword users.

If you want more information, tell me who you use.
 
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#53
i wish people would stop screaming for nerfs on King K.Rool like he's some unstoppable monster

he suffers from the same drawbacks that all heavies have....people are only crying about him now because *gasp* he might actually be a viable tournament option and for some reason people just hate the idea of a non-rushdown character being viable in a competitive scene
 

Royta

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#54
He's viable in tournaments, but he's mostly really good in the Online Meta where some of his options are just harder to respond to and comboing him is harder. Since most people that cry about nerfs are just pure online-warriors, I can understand it somewhat but still don't approve of it. Leave the game as is. No buffs or nerfs are needed.
 

grizby2

Smash Lord
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#55
K rool OP? not by a long shot.
I would personally give him buffs. have you ever tried to LAND as k rool? it should be an achievement all on its own.
ive had a luigi down grab me and combo me to 80-something% (all while in hit-stun) all because k rool has ZILCH options to fight back while in the air.

yes k rool is powerful, but hes slow. so slow in fact, if he makes the first move and it doesn't connect, hes already in trouble. theres a reason every k rool uses jab, u-tilt, and nair so much. its because everything else feels like hes mapping stars and he has to be in the right place at the right exact time. if k rool hits you, its because he predicted your movements, and if he wants to survive against the likes of Mario/falco/simon/megaman ect.. he absolutely HAS TO! if the croc cant read, then you'll take the lead.
 
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#56
I agree, he needs a buff if anything. Like making his counter less bad, or maybe having him never forced into the sluggish crown regrab animation. Not that he isn't a solid character, he is, but honestly he's not performing spectacularly in tournaments right now, and he's not even the most annoying character online. I mean, have any of you [K. Rool nerf requesters] ever fought a decent...anyone? K. Rool is the least of our worries when we have all of these characters with actual good projectiles and lightning speed running around, carving you up before you know what even happened.
 
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Fatmanonice

Unironically mains weird characters.
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Fatmanonice
#57
Heavies are always the first to fall when it comes to people getting better at the game. Even with the Ding Dong and Koo-Pah in Smash 4, both Bowser and DK were typically reserved for counterpicks and still got creamed in a lot of match ups. In Brawl, Snake and King Dedede were top three and then simply got worse overtime as people figured them out. K. Rool won't be any different, especially with so many playing him and forcing people to learn the match up. By the summer, K. Rool probably won't even be considered top 15 anymore.
 
Joined
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#58
I find it a bit frustrating trying to read through topics for a matter of detail on how to punish characters, only for players to throw up a "he can be punished severely" wall with zero details as to how.
Use your imagination, the topic of if he's broken or not has pretty much been done to death.
 
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Zack E.

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#59
Heavies are always the first to fall when it comes to people getting better at the game. Even with the Ding Dong and Koo-Pah in Smash 4, both Bowser and DK were typically reserved for counterpicks and still got creamed in a lot of match ups. In Brawl, Snake and King Dedede were top three and then simply got worse overtime as people figured them out. K. Rool won't be any different, especially with so many playing him and forcing people to learn the match up. By the summer, K. Rool probably won't even be considered top 15 anymore.
Nah K Rool will always be top tier
 
Joined
Dec 24, 2005
Messages
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#62
Heavies have never been top/high tier because they are combo food and do not have the appropriate kit to deal with fast moving and small characters. Unforunately krool has very slow startup moves so comboing him is pretty easy (you can’t place nairs here and there to stop a combo, you can basically only rely on airdodge or opponent’s mistakes). He is big so it is easy to hit him with projectiles (spam-heavy characters are a nightmare), and his recovery is not that great unfortunately. Once people will learn to deal with him we will have a hard time. This being said, good players are able to use him at his full, and he has some nice kit and can rely on super armor which is pretty good. I think in one year’s time krool will be placed at the higher end of the mid tiers.
 

VoidableFall

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 25, 2018
Messages
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#63
He's not broken in the slightest, but I expect his ability to hold suction to cover ledge getups probably will be nerfed a bit. It's a little frustrating right now just how many options it covers without much commitment required from K. Rool, especially when the launch after suction is a pretty reliable kill move. Buff him in other areas to compensate if necessary, by all means, but that'd probably be for the best.
 
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