is K Rool broken?

DARKREVOLVER

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#1
I unlocked the character a few hours ago and after analysing the moveset I can say that I feel its broken maybe unfair, I can do this at mid-high to almost every character with the right timing or even harder combos and locks. Dont know if it is the right place to post it or if its already posted but here's the video :)
https://twitter.com/DARKREVOLVER7/status/1072221648844144645?s=19
 
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#3
- Short answer: No.
- Long answer: Probably not.

Seriously though... The game has been out a mere 3 days for the general population. People are only starting to figure out which skills gimp K. Rool's recovery for one thing, and being a brand new character I think it's normal that it might take a bit longer for people to recognise which moves work and which don't in terms of priority.

Too early to tell, but I don't think I'm worried about K. Rool. He's definitely not trash, but he does sport some of the classic heavy weaknesses shared by the rest of the heavy cast that will ensure he's not going to be the next Fox, Meta Knight or Bayonetta either. He is just very unorthodox, and that's going to sit a bit poorly with the more casual crowd for longer I think.
 
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Inking2003

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#4
The real question is what level was that poor CPU? If it was a low level one, I can understand why this would make K. Rool seem broken. Any kind of dodge could have made an easy escape from that. Try doing that to a level 9 CPU and see what happens
 

DARKREVOLVER

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#5
The real question is what level was that poor CPU? If it was a low level one, I can understand why this would make K. Rool seem broken. Any kind of dodge could have made an easy escape from that. Try doing that to a level 9 CPU and see what happens
I tried a lvl 9 and also worked, not every time but if you're fast you can do it.
Grab(at 60-70%) >Dthrow>jab>crouch>grab>dashgrab>dthrow>jab>crouch>smash
I didnt mean to be like "woah I found out a unavoidable combo ban K rool" but I think it can be a good option if done properly and it also looks cool
 

Videocatbox

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#7
In my experience with level 9 mario, he escaped being grounded too quickly for any followup unless 90 or above which I go for utilt because of its fast startup and knockback but on a real player this may work if the correct option is chosen when they escape.
 

Mc.Rad

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#8
I'll be real here, he has no real combos. His projectiles kinda suck (his crown is literally a crappy version of Richter's Cross and the blunderbuss takes forever to perform.) He's a big guy, which means he gets easily combo'd and his Up-B is pretty predictable and makes you a sitting duck. I think it's safe to say that theres a lot that's going against K.Rool and he's not likely to be broken. I think he is a great character, but he's definitely not broken.
 

Xigger

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#9
Right now K. Rool is new, so his easy-to-learn punish playstyle is difficult to play against. But as someone who's played way too much King K. Rool in Quickplay, his weaknesses are very noticeable. (Any fast fighters like Inkling, Falcon, or a Fire Emblem swordsman usually shield with perfect timing and zone in.)

- His projectiles are slow and predictable. Every counter to Samus applies to K. Rool, but is much easier to dodge.

- Also, you can steal his crown. Either keep it on the ground away from K. Rool, or pocket it forever with Villager/Isabelle.

- His recovery is the same as Duck Hunt; slow, predictable, and can't be cancelled. Just with a small propeller attack on top. All Duck Hunt counters apply, except the fan makes Dairs a little harder.

- His air game is lacking. Large fighters are easy to hit, and if you jump towards him, you can most likely hit him before he hits you.

- It's easy to escape the ground stun combos before high percentage. You just have to mash buttons to jump out, then avoid grabs as if you were fighting a grab-hungry Ness or Mewtwo.

- The hardest combo to counter is his Blunderbuss edge-guarding. Any projectile or long-range attack will knock him out of it, and some stages will let you hit him underneath the platform. Sadly, some fighters like Little Mac will always have a hard time against that tactic.


TLDR; jump over projectiles, use aerial attacks, hit him in the air, spam escape ground stuns, and don't be Little Mac
 

Empty Number

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#10
I don’t understand the concern with blunderbuss edgeguarding and feel I’m missing something. Can’t characters just double jump over him before his endlag is up? I’ve stopped using the succ as anything more than a mixup because it doesn’t work consistently. Are you all getting consistent kill confirms off of it at ledge? How?!
 
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#11
I tried a lvl 9 and also worked, not every time but if you're fast you can do it.
Grab(at 60-70%) >Dthrow>jab>crouch>grab>dashgrab>dthrow>jab>crouch>smash
I didnt mean to be like "woah I found out a unavoidable combo ban K rool" but I think it can be a good option if done properly and it also looks cool
Just wondering, why crouching after jab and before the grab? Does the crouch extens his grab range?
 

Junglechief

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#12
So from the K. Rools I've played. He seems pretty good. The general idea that you pressure him with aerials seems correct but good K. Rools that mix up the timing on his crown and cannonball are still hard to get in on and stay in on. Any mistake while pressuring him usually results in getting hit with ftilt or jab which puts you back out and his super armor is very good. The crown and cannonball just do so much hit stun for a projectile in smash, which is really the thing that makes it the hardest, you just get bodied when you get hit by a projectile. His projectiles also do good shield damage. I guess the correct thing is to learn the parry timing on it all but it's hard to imagine him being bad with these tools. Day 1 he's stupid because it feels like you just need to be so precise while pressuring him or else the aforementioned bodying by ftilt, jab, or grab. He's not broken but he's really dumb to fight in the early meta.
 
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Junglechief

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#14
My guess would be recover low and go the ledge. If he continues to hold it you can probably ledge roll.

This is assuming your recovery options are limited and you're far out. If you are just offstage with all your jumps still, just jump over it and dair or bair him, it's really committed.
 
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popemanz

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#15
I don’t understand the concern with blunderbuss edgeguarding and feel I’m missing something. Can’t characters just double jump over him before his endlag is up? I’ve stopped using the succ as anything more than a mixup because it doesn’t work consistently. Are you all getting consistent kill confirms off of it at ledge? How?!
It is bad but I am people suck at the game

What am I supposed to do when he is edge guarding with the vacuum part of his blunderbuss?
don't walk into it jump away from the platform and then towards
 

DARKREVOLVER

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#16
Just wondering, why crouching after jab and before the grab? Does the crouch extens his grab range?
If you press z inmediately after the jab he will do the second jab if you do the crouch for a few frames you can jab grab faster

Pd: interesting replies here, maybe not broken at a high level and its just a rookie killer
 

GAINAX

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#17
King K. Rool is far from broken. While he's a very strong and hard to smash out at high percentages, his attacks are incredibly slow. A skilled player will take advantage of this and punish appropriately, keeping their distance, respecting his power. He's also complete combo food and really struggles against the faster characters with low lag. Even his cheap ground throw kill confirm isn't 100% if your opponent is good enough to mash out of it.

He reminds me of Little Mac when Smash 4, first launched. Casuals will get bodied by the strength of his attacks and cry nerf.
 
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#18
He isn't. I play him a ton, and he CANNOT land for his life. Fast characters melt him and he can get combd'ed very easily. I agree with the Mac comparison. the only broken thing is the ****ing matchmakignhg
 
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Xigger

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#19
I don’t understand the concern with blunderbuss edgeguarding and feel I’m missing something. Can’t characters just double jump over him before his endlag is up? I’ve stopped using the succ as anything more than a mixup because it doesn’t work consistently. Are you all getting consistent kill confirms off of it at ledge? How?!
When placed right, some fighter's don't jump high enough to get over him. It's not an issue for fighters with great jumps and recoveries, like Yoshi or Kirby, but low-jumpers like Little Mac or FE Swordsmen don't stand a chance.
 
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#20
This just reminds me of when Smash 4 first came out and every one had the same "omg Broken/High Tier" reaction with Bowser. And we saw where Bowser dropped months later.
 

S_B

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#21
He's not OP, he's just not awful like most heavyweights and actually has some decent kill confirms.

Certain characters crap all over him, like Fox and the Belmonts.
 

icecooler

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#22
the only thing i can see getting nerfed is his down smash. I killed at 45% near the ledge, which idk how good his DI was but that was still stupid early. Its not just this one case its killed to 50-60% percent based on weight and where I was on stage
 

S_B

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#23
the only thing i can see getting nerfed is his down smash. I killed at 45% near the ledge, which idk how good his DI was but that was still stupid early. Its not just this one case its killed to 50-60% percent based on weight and where I was on stage
I was actually going to mention this as well: the only thing he has which I feel is a bit much is his Dthrow > Dsmash confirm, because he excels at racking damage and has a few reliable kill confirms already. Being able to just stuff someone in the ground and they basically have no chance at ~140% is probably a bit much.

I fear he's going to be a very polarizing character: against the characters he's strong against, he's VERY strong. Against characters who can overwhelm him and largely avoid his grab game, he's likely going to have a very difficult time.

He may wind up just being the ultimate counterpick.
 
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Royta

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#24
He's not broken. But he's very easy to use, has some elements to him that take figuring out for new players to deal with and can be a problem online where heavy hitters often shine thanks to lag and so on.

While not trash level, I'd say he's a solid mid-tier fighter to be sure. He's mostly bad under pressure from behind and once you know how to deal with his recovery you can nail him early.

Some things you need to know when facing him:

- you can grab the crown and use it against him, basically removing his ranged options;
- you can mash out of the grounded state and punish whiffed follow-ups;
- you can roll past his blunderbuss sucktion effect if you're on the ledge;
- his DownB only works from the front;

The only attack that is guaranteed after a D-throw is an Utilt, everything else can be avoided if the opposing player doesn't mind sacrificing a few years of his controller's lifespan.
 
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#25
The only thing of his that I think is broken is down throw to Fsmash. It kills super early and is really easy to pull off.

As for mashing out, kill percents can be in the 60-70 range so mashing out is much harder. At higher percents it’s a lot easier to mash out of.


The rest of the stuff is adaptable.
 
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SmashBro99

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#26
Nah, as someone said people thought Bowser was broken when the last game first came out, and look how he ended up.

He's new, people don't know how to deal with him yet. Most people ive played dont seem to know they can mash out of being buried/that his counter reflects.

And his recovery is pretty gimpable, but most people are too afraid to try because of the top part.
 

Luigifan18

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#27
The only thing of his that I think is broken is down throw to Fsmash. It kills super early and is really easy to pull off.

As for mashing out, kill percents can be in the 60-70 range so mashing out is much harder. At higher percents it’s a lot easier to mash out of.


The rest of the stuff is adaptable.
Wait, what? I’m pretty sure that shield-break stunning is the only form of incapacitation/immobilization that has a duration inversely proportional to the amount of damage on the victim; all others, including burying, last longer as damage rises.
 
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#28
Sorry you are probably right, either way it is really hard to mash out of dthrow before getting hit.
 

icecooler

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#29
I was actually going to mention this as well: the only thing he has which I feel is a bit much is his Dthrow > Dsmash confirm, because he excels at racking damage and has a few reliable kill confirms already. Being able to just stuff someone in the ground and they basically have no chance at ~140% is probably a bit much.

I fear he's going to be a very polarizing character: against the characters he's strong against, he's VERY strong. Against characters who can overwhelm him and largely avoid his grab game, he's likely going to have a very difficult time.

He may wind up just being the ultimate counterpick.
I feel at a percent that high the downsmash should connect. I've had opponents mash out as late as 130%, so I don't think there's anything that needs to be nerfed about his down throw. If they were to nerf his down smash I could also see them nerfing down throw, making krool use fmsash off down throw which has less kill power, and only making downthrow impossible to mash out of in time at around 160%

They probably wouldn't do this but another way to go about it is to have his armor take more damage during down smash, making down smash more of a risk and reward type move
 
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Kincaid1

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#30
Just for reference, if you land d-throw > f-smash/d-smash on someone below 150%, they ****ing suck at mashing. You can mega-mash at those percents and escape before the smashes come out; the most consistent confirm is up-tilt, which kills at around 130%. If anyone thinks that d-throw > f-smash/d-smash is free, they've been playing against people who are bad at mashing.
 

Rocketjay8

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#32
I feel at a percent that high the downsmash should connect. I've had opponents mash out as late as 130%, so I don't think there's anything that needs to be nerfed about his down throw. If they were to nerf his down smash I could also see them nerfing down throw, making krool use fmsash off down throw which has less kill power, and only making downthrow impossible to mash out of in time at around 160%

They probably wouldn't do this but another way to go about it is to have his armor take more damage during down smash, making down smash more of a risk and reward type move
I would say a bit more like 2-3% increase so that it's not completely useless.
 
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P1stick

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#33
I'll be real here, he has no real combos. His projectiles kinda suck (his crown is literally a crappy version of Richter's Cross and the blunderbuss takes forever to perform.) He's a big guy, which means he gets easily combo'd and his Up-B is pretty predictable and makes you a sitting duck. I think it's safe to say that theres a lot that's going against K.Rool and he's not likely to be broken. I think he is a great character, but he's definitely not broken.
he has combos. and tbh combos are different in smash ultimate. i tell people all the time when a heavy weight is getting comboed, thats not a disadvantage, your a heavy thats just an attribute. you live longer than me. id hope to god you can atleast be comboed. crown is amazing because unlike richter and links boomarange, it goes through sheild. its a constant threat even when sheilded. k rool has dumb armor on alot of attacks. a recovery that maybe predicatable but has to be punished from the side. and hits at ledge. and can i just say bury to downsmash at 60% and killing is polarizing. cuz he gets burries from not only ddthrow but dtilt aswell. and damage out put is greater in ultimate? and uptilt is huge and kills and comes out reallly fast for a heavy weight? krool is an easy top tier. and has some border line broken things. especially bury downsmash. and i know you can mash out of bury. but tbh your mashing you hitting buttons. i come out and nair and look i got hit by downsmash anyways. or tbh the only way you miss the down smash is if you try to charge it. or upsmash. a bury being that free,that fast, that safe is crazy and needs to be nerfed.
 
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Empty Number

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#35
he has combos. and tbh combos are different in smash ultimate. i tell people all the time when a heavy weight is getting comboed, thats not a disadvantage, your a heavy thats just an attribute. you live longer than me. id hope to god you can atleast be comboed. crown is amazing because unlike richter and links boomarange, it goes through sheild. its a constant threat even when sheilded. k rool has dumb armor on alot of attacks. a recovery that maybe predicatable but has to be punished from the side. and hits at ledge. and can i just say bury to downsmash at 60% and killing is polarizing. cuz he gets burries from not only ddthrow but dtilt aswell. and damage out put is greater in ultimate? and uptilt is huge and kills and comes out reallly fast for a heavy weight? krool is an easy top tier. and has some border line broken things. especially bury downsmash. and i know you can mash out of bury. but tbh your mashing you hitting buttons. i come out and nair and look i got hit by downsmash anyways. or tbh the only way you miss the down smash is if you try to charge it. or upsmash. a bury being that free,that fast, that safe is crazy and needs to be nerfed.
Please. I’ve stopped using dthrow into dsmash before 135% because players have been mashing out before that. I’ve had dsmash not connect at 145% before from someone mashing like a madman. If you can’t mash out at 70% you’re not even trying.

Everything aside - K Rool’s down throw is basically his kill throw, at around 150%. That is not overpowered nor uncommon. Some characters have kill throws, and K Rool is the only one who has it as his down throw.
 
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#37
K.Rool is the kind of character you will lose to if you don't understand how he works. People will learn the matchup then counterplay accordingly. Hopefully everyone won't wine so much he gets nerfed into garbage before then.
 
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#38
Back when Smash 4 came out everyone told me I was just using a broken character cause I mained Little Mac for a while. Now with Ultimate I chose to main King K Rool and it’s happening again lol. I don’t care though, he’s too much fun. That being said I definitely think hes good but I don’t think he’s broken. Im sure as people play more they will learn to counter him.
 
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#40
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