Is it normal to hardly ever win?

[Starry.]

Can't be as bad as me I have a 25% win rate

mine is 20 percent now >.< before I started actively seeking out help I had a 60 percent win rate but ever since I started trying to "improve" i've just been losing and losing.

 

[rabbit.soaring]

mine is 20 percent now >.< before I started actively seeking out help I had a 60 percent win rate but ever since I started trying to "improve" i've just been losing and losing.

I'm pretty sure FG puts you up against better players the more you win, so you should see that as improvement.

 

[Dragonhunter970]

You can't be that bad let me play you

Tell me you will and I will get started

 

[rabbit.soaring]

Are you guys doing that right now? Can I join too?

 

[Dragonhunter970]

Sure but she did not reply

Waiting for reply

 

[Starry.]

sorry just been playing some games so I couldn't reply. I'll play with you guys after I finish if that's okay?

 

[Dragonhunter970]

How long will that be

 

[Tenchi Boom]

Don't be disheartened! Like everyone else has said, the game has only been out a couple of months, it takes a while to be good at a game even if you've played previous entries. Don't give up, and you will get there in the end. For Glory can be a b****.

 

[Dragonhunter970]

Ready right now

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

I'm starting to feel like I should give up on sheik, zero suit and lucina.

Maybe I should pick more noob friendly characters.... also sorry for being such a whiny brat... i've just been getting really frustrated and upset over this for no reason >.<

You should play some friendlies with some people so they can tell you what you can do to get better. Also (I am REALLY to offend you), but ZSS is kind of a "noob friendly" character in my opinion. Maybe shiek and ZSS are not your style? As a Marth main I kind of don't want you to give up on Lucina for some reason,but if you are good at spacing with her you should DEFINITELY switch to Marth since he rewards that greatly.

 

[Dragonhunter970]

I'm starting to feel like I should give up on sheik, zero suit and lucina.

Maybe I should pick more noob friendly characters.... also sorry for being such a whiny brat... i've just been getting really frustrated and upset over this for no reason >.<

Lucina is good

 

[rabbit.soaring]

I honestly think you should try maining random. And check out smashladder. Honestly though, there aren't any characters easier to pick up than Shiek. Try not to get so frustrated. (Also gg Dragonhunter. Are you afeared now?)

 

[Starry.]

I honestly think you should try maining random. And check out smashladder. Honestly though, there aren't any characters easier to pick up than Shiek. Try not to get so frustrated. (Also gg Dragonhunter. Are you afeared now?)

I guess if sheik and zss are easy to play I just suck even worse >.<

I think i'll just quit seeing as I can't even use the easiest characters to use :/

 

[rabbit.soaring]

I guess if sheik and zss are easy to play I just suck even worse >.<

I think i'll just quit seeing as I can't even use the easiest characters to use :/

nonono that's not what I meant. And from your videos, you're really not that bad, you're just playing good players, like the people before me said. Besides, you won't get better if you just give up.

EDIT: Wait, Dragonslayer, why'd you leave?

 

[Dragonhunter970]

I honestly think you should try maining random. And check out smashladder. Honestly though, there aren't any characters easier to pick up than Shiek. Try not to get so frustrated. (Also gg Dragonhunter. Are you afeared now?)

What does that even mean

Tierd and fell sick

 

[rabbit.soaring]

It means are you scared. Of my terrifying skills. It sounded a lot better in my head.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

I guess if sheik and zss are easy to play I just suck even worse >.<

I think i'll just quit seeing as I can't even use the easiest characters to use :/

NEVA GIVE UP! What types of character do you like to use? I personally can't play Sheik well at all and I have not really used ZSS that much,but when I do I am trash with her. You just have to find someone who can help you get better by telling you what you should be doing and what you shouldn't be doing. Look, we all start somewhere. I first started trying to play brawl competitively with my friends,but we were all kinda trash at that game aside from when I would use Snake or my friend would use Lucas,but even then we still didn't really know what we were doing. I sucked at Sm4sh when it first came out,but after getting a ton of practice I'm pretty good now. It takes time to get good at a fighting game, first you should learn about advanced techniques and then you should find a character who fits the style you want to play.

 

[Dragonhunter970]

It means are you scared. Of my terrifying skills. It sounded a lot better in my head.

Honestly a little but I think we are close matched love to fight you again in the future

I guess if sheik and zss are easy to play I just suck even worse >.<

I think i'll just quit seeing as I can't even use the easiest characters to use :/

Kirby use kirby

I also just had enough of ssb4 today

 

[Midnah]

Don't quit because you don't win. Try to have fun with the game, but also challenge yourself. I have like a 35% win ratio, and all I do is have fun with the 1v1s. Try and find a community that is willing to help you out. I have a few friends that help me improve by simply smashing my face into the dirt, as bad as it sounds. If you want help, try communities like #smashbros. If you want some help with Sheik, I know some tips and would be happy to help, as it's a shame to see people get down because they don't win as much as they want. Also, save your replays! Watch them, too! As lame as it sounds, watching previous games and laughing at mistakes and taking mental notes is a great way to improve. Don't just copy peoples play style, though. Try to find your own play style, or whatever works best for you. I'm always on #Smashbros if you want to discuss strategy and combos, or anything you feel like you need to improve on. (: But don't quit because you don't win, it's not about wining, it's about having fun.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

I guess if sheik and zss are easy to play I just suck even worse >.<

I think i'll just quit seeing as I can't even use the easiest characters to use :/

Okay, so I saw 2 of your videos. I saw your newest match using Shiek and your Lucina vs Wii Fit trainer. You need to get out of the habit of rolling so much, because if you do it too much your opponent will start reading your rolls and punishing them. You also need to be more careful throwing out smash attacks and moves you have to charge up, in the Lucina vs WFT match you got punished multiple times for trying to go for a f smash or shield breaker. You need to do more aerial approaches by short hopping and doing an aerial attack. For Sheik go for her Nair when you aerial approach. For Lucina go for a Nair or Fair. Also when you use Sheik d throw into up air does good damage AND it can kill once your opponents % is high enough.

 

[rabbit.soaring]

NEVA GIVE UP! What types of character do you like to use? I personally can't play Sheik well at all and I have not really used ZSS that much,but when I do I am trash with her. You just have to find someone who can help you get better by telling you what you should be doing and what you shouldn't be doing. Look, we all start somewhere. I first started trying to play brawl competitively with my friends,but we were all kinda trash at that game aside from when I would use Snake or my friend would use Lucas,but even then we still didn't really know what we were doing. I sucked at Sm4sh when it first came out,but after getting a ton of practice I'm pretty good now. It takes time to get good at a fighting game, first you should learn about advanced techniques and then you should find a character who fits the style you want to play.

What JingleJangle said, really. Just be patient. Also, I noticed you tend to only use the fast, light, characters. You should probably try a different playstyle(heavies to midweights). I can suggest Charizard, ROB, and Villager as three characters you might want to look at, as they all play differently from the characters you've been playing recently.

Honestly, as long as you keep playing and don't give up, you'll get better.

 

[Big O]

I guess if sheik and zss are easy to play I just suck even worse >.<

I think i'll just quit seeing as I can't even use the easiest characters to use :/

I know this may sound strange, but I think the best thing you can do at this point in your venture into competitive smash is to play for fun. I am starting to think the whole FG win rate and losing streak problems you are facing are mental blocks. From what I read from your posts so far, it sounds like the moment you started really caring about winning you started playing worse.

I know it's hard and maybe unintuitive, but you need to care less about winning or losing. Ultimately the goal is to win, but you do so by getting better. Each individual game or set is just part of the journey getting better. Don't let the losses that happen along the way bring you down. This downward spiral you are experiencing is a common thing in competitive games, and is something everyone has dealt with to some degree. There are people with 10% or less win rates in FG. You aren't the best player at the moment, but you also aren't the worst either. The silver lining to hitting rock bottom is that you can only go up from there.

At this point I would just stick to your favorite characters to play (whoever they may be). Don't worry about sucking with them or whatever. Worry about them being fun to play as. There is no point switching to characters you do better with if you do not have fun playing as them. Also, realize that over-training is a thing and take breaks accordingly.

Later on, watch some of your replays and ask yourself "If I played with my mind and could edit this replay, what would I do differently?" Compare them to videos of some of the more famous smash veterans and think about what they do differently and perhaps why they do what they do.

 

[Thor]

Oh... well I can do those strings. I kinda thought you had to hit them 10 times in a row or something lol

It's a lot easier to do them in training mode but as soon as I go on for glory I can't land a single one, panic and start mashing buttons.

I really feel like just giving up. I'm not having fun at all.

First, I'm assuming you're using Sheik for the duration of this post, so... if you're using someone else, maybe try to apply it to them?

To be honest, if you can hit a 3-hit string, that's pretty good (the ftilt you can hit more if your opponent isn't escaping it I guess, but most strings beyond that are kind of tricky).

Strings are harder in this game than in Melee because characters have lower fall speeds, so that vertical launchers move them upward more, and as a result, you have to go farther, even though they are in hitstun for the same number of frames. As a result, you shouldn't expect to just do some awesome 50% true combo... BUT you can try reading airdodges to make longer strings, that is, you can land a hit or two, guess what they'll do that commits them to lag [or guess that they'll do nothing], and attack accordingly. If you do so, you just managed to land another hit, and can possibly keep going.

One player who is EXCEPTIONAL at this is Mr. R. I'll link you to a Brawl combo video he did (where stringing is even harder because even hitstun can be cancelled and airdodging has only 6 frames of landing lag [and regular landing lag is 4 frames, so it's practically nothing]) so you can see what I mean - he times his attacks based on a prediction of an airdodge or lack of one and manages to then land the hit accordingly, thus setting up for another hit. He's a Marth player but the idea is the same [and keep in mind he's practiced this MUCH longer than you have, so don't expect to be able to do stuff like this right away - and he also tends to play flashy when he's ahead - you don't need to look flashy though, just get the damage on so you can start looking for openings to KO]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xhXwtH0C4A

If you start to panic, it's much better to slow down than to start button mashing. You unfortunately can't just run over to the ledge and jump up and down on it a bunch to calm your nerves, BUT I have a few ideas that could help:

A) DON'T start rolling a lot if you get nervous - I guess if the connection is super laggy this could annoy someone, but rolls are punishable by smash attacks, since they last long enough (and have enough endlag) to have you hit out of one by most attacks that are well-timed. Plus rolling excessively or following a pattern (a roll habit) is a bad thing many new players do (again, because it is very punishable), so avoiding having one now will serve you well later.
B) Shielding is a reasonably good idea against most characters - you can put up your shield and jump over an approaching opponent, roll through them (but then run away or counter, don't keep rolling), or spotdodge and try to attack them or grab them. Against characters like Ness with a powerful KO throw this idea is a little less appealing when you are in KO percents, but if you're fighting a Marth, you just have to be ready to roll away from a shield breaker.
C) Don't focus on what you feel you're not doing - try to focus on what you think you CAN do, for example: I want to hit _____ but I can't seem to... however, I think I can hit ftilt or dthrow -> fair/uair (or whatever), so I'll try to look for opening to land one of those attacks and then the followup. Focusing on what you can do will help you land a string to get some percent and hopefully calm down since you are then seeing success. And don't have to pressure for a KO move or think "Why aren't they dying!?" - this often leads people to commit to laggy, easily punishable moves. Your opponent is launched farther with every move, so if you have to build them to 200% every stock to KO them, but you aren't getting hit much in the process, that's perfect.
D) If you have any friends who are willing to, I'd suggest asking them to play you where their focus is trying to use the "Vectoring" system in numerous different directions while you practice throw followups - this will help you figure out how to follow up on a throw based on where they end up, which is of course important since humans don't do the same thing every time, unlike a lot of CPUs.

If you aren't having fun, you can certainly a break, or an extended break, but I don't think quitting just yet is the best idea - you've hit a wall, but it's not an insurmountable one, and I get the feeling (based on how much you've asked for help) that you had been very willing to work hard for this before - and I'll be honest, I think that Sheik and ZSS are pretty good characters from what we've seen, so unless you just don't like them, they are solid choices to play as. I wouldn't say they're easy to use per se - both can have some difficulty landing KO moves (unlike, say, Bowser), which can lead newer players to fish for them. With the strong effects of stale move negation (attacks doing less knockback and damage as you hit with them more), this problem is made even worse.

--------------

TL;DR: Watch the video I linked (in the different colored font), that's a pro doing strings in a game harder to string in and you can see he's not just combooing but reading and following up on his opponent's actions - doing the same will help you. Calming down is tough but shielding more and trying to react will help, as will avoiding too much rolling and focusing on the things you know you can do, rather than what you can't. And read the paragraph above this one.

 

[JayTheUnseen]

You may be getting unlucky and running into good people.
But as has been said,try not to be determined to land 1 move and keep on trying continuously,like grab.
Try to vary what moves you use,unless sticking to one move seems to work.
And remember,don't take what everyone says to heart.What I mean is,don't take this post as a rule,
only advice.Glean what use you can from it,and do as I say only if you find it works.
And even if ZSS and Sheik are good or easy-to-use generally,that does not mean they suit you
or are good to start with.Pick whoever you enjoy using or whoever feels natural.

In summary do what works for you-including midmatch!

 

[rabbit.soaring]

Thanks for posting that Thor, that video's incredible. Also, I know I've said this twice before, but you should try maining random, just for a little bit.

 

[Thor]

You may be getting unlucky and running into good people.
But as has been said,try not to be determined to land 1 move and keep on trying continuously,like grab.
Try to vary what moves you use,unless sticking to one move seems to work.
And remember,don't take what everyone says to heart.What I mean is,don't take this post as a rule,
only advice.Glean what use you can from it,and do as I say only if you find it works.
And even if ZSS and Sheik are good or easy-to-use generally,that does not mean they suit you
or are good to start with.Pick whoever you enjoy using or whoever feels natural.

In summary do what works for you-including midmatch!

Adding on to this, I don't generally play ZSS or Sheik.

And while my Sheik looks ok, my ZSS sometimes plays well, and sometimes I suck sooooooooo bad (like, my Falco looks top tier and my ZSS looks like bottom tier trash if you put them side by side).

So it's DEFINITELY possible that Sheik, ZSS, and Lucina aren't your cup of tea - they are generally rush-down (Sheik can needle some I guess) and rather fast - you may prefer playing defensively and zoning and seeking opportunities for close-combat, at which point Link or Toon Link would work better for you. This is why I play Link in Melee - he suits me well, even if he's not that great (I did take the time to at least partially develop a Falco, since I also find him fun to play). And you may prefer something in the middle - Pikachu can sort of camp, but is better darting in and out, rather than applying constant pressure, for instance (may not even be true but I think you see the point).

*Wall of text incoming*

Also, one thing to note - many of the best players play only one character - if you look to Melee, up until Apex 2013, PPMD played only Falco, Hungrybox played only Jigglypuff for the longest time, and Armada only ever used Peach when he had a real fight for a very very long time. In Brawl, there are many people who play only Ice Climbers or only Meta Knight and there are a few solo Snakes (MVD still is I believe), solo Falcos (DEHF for a while, though Pikachu is enough of a headache to change that), solo Diddy Kongs (ADHD), and more. Focusing on three characters means you have to learn the ins and outs of all of them, all their weaknesses and strengths, how they approach each matchup, if you really want to be a top player with each of them. That is why in Melee I primarily focus on Link (and try to keep my Falco up to snuff) - I CAN play Fox a little, or Kirby or Marth or whomever, and will do so from time to time, but I almost never focus on improving them - they may be fun to play occasionally, but I don't enjoy them enough to want to have to learn how to fight all the top tiers with them and grind out all the specific tech skill and fighting styles required to play as them, so I simply don't.

Because of this, I would encourage you to focus primarily on one character if you find one you like for a significant timespan (I would say at least a month - while that seems like forever, PPMD spent like 5 years or something only developing his Falco [probably longer?]). This will hopefully help you to get a better control over them and then make the game more fun again, since knowing your character and how they interact with the opponent well will make it easier to win (and have fun, since using a character well is almost always more fun).

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Out of curiosity, two questions....

1. What is the level you are attempting to get to with your play...

2. ...and how do you measure it? PRO-TIP : For Glory win % is both a fallacious and intellectually ineffective way of conveying your skill.

You aren't going to beat everyone and if every time you lose it makes you feel like you suck then yes, your mindset is not cut out for smash.

 

[SmashBear]

Try playing a character that bests fit you and your playstyle

 

[Starry.]

Out of curiosity, two questions....

1. What is the level you are attempting to get to with your play...

2. ...and how do you measure it? PRO-TIP : For Glory win % is both a fallacious and intellectually ineffective way of conveying your skill.

You aren't going to beat everyone and if every time you lose it makes you feel like you suck then yes, your mindset is not cut out for smash.

Well I guess originally I just wanted to be able to play anyone and at least be able to put up a fight. I don't mind losing I just hate it where I don't stand a chance and end up feeling like an absolutely trash player.

 

[Starry.]

Try playing a character that bests fit you and your playstyle

The thing is I don't even know what my playstyle is and I've only ever played 3 characters in this smash. I have no clue what works for me and what doesn't.

 

[rabbit.soaring]

The thing is I don't even know what my playstyle is and I've only ever played 3 characters in this smash. I have no clue what works for me and what doesn't.

Main random.

 

[K-45]

A friend once told me you don't pick your main. Your main picks u.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Well I guess originally I just wanted to be able to play anyone and at least be able to put up a fight. I don't mind losing I just hate it where I don't stand a chance and end up feeling like an absolutely trash player.

A player who's better than you is always going to make you feel inadequate if that's how you think. By definition of being better, they are going to play smarter, and very likely win. The means for which they earned that win should matter to you more than the fact they won. "Putting up a fight" doesn't mean anything, it just means your opponent was either at your same skill level or just barely better. If you get smashed that was actually someone worth learning from.

Your problem is, as a very new competitive player, you think that your rate of winning defines you, but right now, it's your rate of practice. If you've been playing competitively for 5+ years and you still can never win, that's when you begin to question your approach and/or whine about quitting because you aren't good enough (a scaled down Leffen).

 

[Starry.]

A player who's better than you is always going to make you feel inadequate if that's how you think. By definition of being better, they are going to play smarter, and very likely win. The means for which they earned that win should matter to you more than the fact they won. "Putting up a fight" doesn't mean anything, it just means your opponent was either at your same skill level or just barely better. If you get smashed that was actually someone worth learning from.

Your problem is, as a very new competitive player, you think that your rate of winning defines you, but right now, it's your rate of practice. If you've been playing competitively for 5+ and you still can never win, that's when you begin to question your approach and/or whine about quitting because you aren't good enough (a scaled down Leffen).

I just don't want to suck. I want to get good and be able to compete against good players. I'm trying to get better but not making any progress which is what makes me feel bad.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

I just don't want to suck. I want to get good and be able to compete against good players. I'm trying to get better but not making any progress which is what makes me feel bad.

That process can sometimes take years, and it certainly isn't going to happen within a span of a couple hundred matches.

Nobody wants to suck but everyone has to at some point.

 

[Starry.]

That process can sometimes take years, and it certainly isn't going to happen within a span of a couple hundred matches.

Nobody wants to suck but everyone has to at some point.

If I know that in a few years I would be a good player then I would keep playing but at the moment it feels like I can't get a grasp of the game, I have no clue what i'm doing and when I ask for advice I get even more confused >.<

 

[Zethoro]

A friend once told me you don't pick your main. Your main picks u.

Truer words have never been said. You're never gonna find "your" character if you don't try everyone. When this game came out I was sure I was going to main Robin and Bowser, but as time went on I tried out different characters and now I'm not even using the characters I was so sure about at the start. If you play all the characters you'll eventually find the one that fits you best. Do some FG matches with Random.
Also, don't give up. Getting proficient at something takes a lot of time, especially with a fighting game. Fighting games have intricate mechanics and complicated moves that, to someone trying to become competitive, are incredibly daunting. I know it was for me. You can be good at this game, just don't expect any instant gratification. Give it some time, work at it for awhile, and I guarantee you'll see results.
(But your first priority should be finding a main. If you want, I'm free right now and I could spar with you.)

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

The thing is I don't even know what my playstyle is and I've only ever played 3 characters in this smash. I have no clue what works for me and what doesn't.

Pick random for while until you find a specific type of character you like to use.

 

[Greda]

If moves don't come naturally, take a step back and analyze your character further. If moves don't come naturally, there is something wrong. Please keep this in mind, let other people give you tips, but don't let anyone alter your most suitable play style.

I would also like to add that getting stressed out will only make you worse, so try not to be for an extended amount of time.

Also I wouldn't recommend practicing with level 9 CPU no matter your skill level, and play preferably with humans.

If you need further assistance with your characters, go to the Replay Channel and set it onto FG 1 on 1. There are some god players there and they could teach you quite a thing or two. This has admittedly helped me a lot onto getting better on characters I previously sucked as. You can also check out Character boards here at, well... SmashBoards to understand some more about your character.

If you want, I can also spar with you if you think you'd need that kind of practice.

 

[SatoshiM]

Go try every character on for glory (play against a CPU like once before to learn the basic moves). Seriously. It'll teach you some new characters, you'll stop caring so much about For Glory winrates, and maybe you'll find a new main. I never thought I would be playing ROB as my main of all characters, but he just clicked when I accidentally randomed in a For Glory and got him. Maybe you just haven't found the right character for you yet.

Perhaps you're playing the wrong characters. Try something new. Also, go watch some high level Shiek on like tourney locator or something, and compare.