Is it bad having Melee forbidden 5 back?

[Giygacoal]

Mewtwo and Lucario are literally nothing alike. Also working models of Mewtwo already exist.

What? You know I'm talking about projectile necessity, right? Projectiles are known to be a real bother to work with (can be modified but not added; Solarbeam is actually just a big long hitbox for example), and it's convenient that Mewtwo and Lucario have similarly-functioning projectiles.

 

[HyperrCrow]

iirc there is a Mewtwo PSA out there that actually has a working forward throw with the projectiles and all.

 

[Phaiyte]

What? You know I'm talking about projectile necessity, right? Projectiles are known to be a real bother to work with (can be modified but not added; Solarbeam is actually just a big long hitbox for example), and it's convenient that Mewtwo and Lucario have similarly-functioning projectiles.

Did you not read the part that you quoted that stated there's already a working mewtwo model? Jesus ****ing christ, dude.

 

[Giygacoal]

Did you not read the part that you quoted that stated there's already a working mewtwo model? Jesus ****ing christ, dude.

I am aware of the Mewtwo PSAs. I'm taking about how a PSA would be implemented with the clone engine. I don't know anything specific about the clone engine, but wouldn't it be reasonable to guess that Lucario (as opposed to...Captain Falcon) would be used as a base for Mewtwo? Aren't most of the Mewtwo PSAs made out of Lucario too?

 

[Shadow Huan]

Mewtwo should be intentionally designed as the best character in this game if he's added in. No reason why Mewtwo, the guy who was like...the god of pokemon ended up being the worst pokemon in the game.

this. all of this

it's like having a fighting game with Wolverine in it and having him be the worst hand to hand character.

Nguz's Mewtwo would be a great starting point. loads of potental there

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

we request m2
they should add a nerfed pichu just for the lulz

 

[KayB]

Can I at least have a texture of Dr. Mario that has pills instead of fireballs and a white cape instead of a yellow cape

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Can I at least have a texture of Dr. Mario that has pills instead of fireballs and a white cape instead of a yellow cape

Considering it can't be done without changing the cape and pill for all slots instead of just one, no. Not yet.

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

Can I at least have a texture of Dr. Mario that has pills instead of fireballs and a white cape instead of a yellow cape

That's not really possible, as the texture for his cape, and his fireball model and texture files are located in his FitMario.pac file. And as of now, that renders any changes to those files universal to all alternate costumes and models used.

 

[KayB]

Considering it can't be done without changing the cape and pill for all slots instead of just one, no. Not yet.

That's not really possible, as the texture for his cape, and his fireball model and texture files are located in his FitMario.pac file. And as of now, that renders any changes to those files universal to all alternate costumes and models used.

I know its not possible guys, but as a Dr. Mario main I'm incredibly stubborn in making him look EXACTLY the way he did before because he looked like a badass in Melee.

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

I'd much rather some time be taken to give the clones a more extreme identity like Roy. Once again, DOC HAS ALOT OF UNUSED ODDITIES THAT COULD BE BUILT UPON!
His down tilt and up tilt mechanics, paired with a larger gap between his and Mario's air speed and mobility could render him a more horizontal aerial based fighter, with his Nair charging to finish the combo, or perhaps a MORE powerful FAir should he charge up some moves threw a Lucas like special. That's just and old idea I had, given it would give him the aerial answer to Lucas's ground based offense up.

 

[Little Nemo]

I'm not going to argue my opinion. Just going to put it down and walk away.
I like new characters. I don't like unbalanced games. New characters means more possibilities which means tougher balance. I do see potential in Doc, Yink and Pichu to be great new characters. especially Yink and Doc. Both could potentially be completely new characters. So could Pichu, I guess. But... Pichu... Ugh.
And if Mewtwo doesn't get added heads will roll. I hope the clone engine is perfected so adding and programming the projectile wouldn't be super tough.
Anyway. I'd love it but it would be even more work than worth it.

 

[Archangel]

Honestly, Doc, Pichu, or young link makes about as much sense now as adding a haunted mansion Luigi with a vacuum, Bulbasaur, Wartortle, Charmander, Every other kind of link you can think of, Wigglytuff, blood hawk, Metal Sonic, Dry bowser.....oh you get the point. Any character that is already a character in the game to me is pointless. I don't mean they have some moves that look alike. Technically Metaknight, Wolf, and Pikachu nairs that look alike. Does that make them clones? NO it doesn't. I'm kinda tired of hearing that as an excuse to justify adding characters that are in 1 way or another ALREADY IN THE GAME!

 

[HyperrCrow]

Any character that is already a character in the game to me is pointless. I don't mean they have some moves that look alike. Technically Metaknight, Wolf, and Pikachu nairs that look alike. Does that make them clones? NO it doesn't. I'm kinda tired of hearing that as an excuse to justify adding characters that are in 1 way or another ALREADY IN THE GAME!

This. All of this.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Pichu would be amazing.

Just do it like SSBC and make his DownB Endure and his Skull Bash into Flail and you have the most amazing dumb character in the history of Smash.

 

[SmashShadow]

It's not a question as to whether Doc, Pichu and YLink could work, it's a question of why add them when we already have their more important counterparts. Why should copies of characters already on the roster be added when there are much more popular/important characters that can be added? There is a reason most people don't want them in Smash4.

 

[GigasOverlord]

The two things that can quell all the arguments in this thread; cBliss costumes and RSBE sound changing. You want Young Link? Hope you didn't like Toon Link that much. Pichu? Guess we put Pikachu in the Day Care or something, I dunno. Mario was at graduate school for his M.D. and also went shopping at Bed Bath and Beyond for some bedsheets.

In all seriousness, Mewtwo is higher priority than all other potential newcomers at this point. I could bring up the SSB4 boards argument about being in X/Y and evolutions, movies, that sort of thing. The only thing that needs to be said to warrant having Mewtwo is that he is a character in Melee that the PMBR could take to new heights. Look at what they did with the garbage that was vBrawl Bowser and Ganondorf.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

doc and young link are absolutely pointless to add
we want pichu, nerf plz op

 

[Kerenthar]

What about this guys?:
http://smashbros.neoseeker.com/wiki/Forbidden_Seven
Anyways, Dr. Mario, Young Link and Pichu are all already taked into account by P:M. Any addition should be a new contribution to the character roster.

 

[GunBlaze]

To be goddamn honest, I just want to see an EX Falco in this game

 

[foxygrandpa]

Let's stop messing around and stick Slippy in here somewhere

 

[Chzrm3]

As many others have said, Young Link and Doc seem like a bit of a waste at this point, since so many of their defining attributes were rolled into TL and Mario. That said, I know there are people out there who love both characters. TL's one of my favorite now, but I still love Young Link, and there is a part of me that'd be really happy to see him come back. It'd just feel kinda silly to have 3 of the same characters. Considering how much time it would take the PM BR to make him, it doesn't seem like a good use of their resources and energy.

However, Pichu's kind of interesting. As far as I know, absolutely nothing about Pikachu was changed to resemble Pichu. There's definitely some interesting potential there. I'd kind of love to see what'd happen to Pichu if they took away his self-destructive playstyle. Keep him as a really fast, light, weak version of Pikachu, just don't have him hurting himself during some of his attacks. I wonder if that, combined with some tweaks to make him a better character overall, would be enough to actually make him a legitimate choice?

But maybe that's not the point - maybe the point of Pichu is to be a ridiculous character that's kind of humiliating to lose to. In that case, I guess it's a question of whether the PM BR would embrace spending all that time and effort on a joke.

I'll be honest, though, I'd be really happy if he came back. I played him all the time in Melee, just to troll my friends/cousins.

Honestly, I'd be happy if Young Link and even Doc came back, too. I know it's silly and sorta pointless, but I do miss those guys. =) Ever since I fell in love with PM, I've been playing Melee less and less. Heck, the last time my bro and I booted it up was just because he missed Roy, and wanted to play as him again! With Roy coming back and PM continuing to be a better and better game, it's a little sad - it's like I'm finally saying goodbye to Melee.

Wah, I got pretty off topic here. I guess tl;dr - I think it'd be cool if the old Melee crew was reunited, even though it might be redundant to have them.

 

[trojanpooh]

It's funny how few people actually understand Pichu. He was actually more powerful than Pikachu but his self damaging caused people to ignore him. He also had a great jump that held tons of momentum a la Captain Falcon. If he is returned into the game I'd hope that he retains all of his traits, including self infliction. He had a very unique play style that encouraged limited use of his full set of attacks and rewarded the player for knowing their limits. What I'd like to see is all of his electric attacks (the ones that hurt him) getting buffed to high hell so the user can decide if/when to risk hurting themselves for a potentially fantastic payoff.

As for the rest of the cast, I truly believe that they should all return. Doc and Young Link may have had some of their moves borrowed, but as Roy proves a few moves doesn't make a character. While I personally prefer Toon Link, he feels more like an extreme version of N64 Link than he does Young Link. I know multiple people who love Young Link in Melee but refuse to touch Toon Link they hate playing as him so much. It'd be fantastic if Project M literally had everything Melee did and more as it would encourage people to convert without looking back. Samus (and Pichu) keep me going back to Melee every now and again, imagine how it would feel to know the character you love the most is never going to be making the cut. True, some moves may be a tad redundant, but I hardly think a few instances of overlap is such a bad thing.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

It's funny how few people actually understand Pichu. He was actually more powerful than Pikachu but his self damaging caused people to ignore him. He also had a great jump that held tons of momentum a la Captain Falcon. If he is returned into the game I'd hope that he retains all of his traits, including self infliction. He had a very unique play style that encouraged limited use of his full set of attacks and rewarded the player for knowing their limits. What I'd like to see is all of his electric attacks (the ones that hurt him) getting buffed to high hell so the user can decide if/when to risk hurting themselves for a potentially fantastic payoff.

As for the rest of the cast, I truly believe that they should all return. Doc and Young Link may have had some of their moves borrowed, but as Roy proves a few moves doesn't make a character. While I personally prefer Toon Link, he feels more like an extreme version of N64 Link than he does Young Link. I know multiple people who love Young Link in Melee but refuse to touch Toon Link they hate playing as him so much. It'd be fantastic if Project M literally had everything Melee did and more as it would encourage people to convert without looking back. Samus (and Pichu) keep me going back to Melee every now and again, imagine how it would feel to know the character you love the most is never going to be making the cut. True, some moves may be a tad redundant, but I hardly think a few instances of overlap is such a bad thing.

I'm not completely against the idea of Doc, provided that the PMBR could make him completely different. Doc would need a major overhaul as Mario is just about everything Doc was and more with his agility and Doc's power.

I have to disagree with the inclusion of Young Link though, as this game already has 5 Zelda characters and anymore reaches into Pokemon's levels of massive over-saturation. (True, you could argue that Zelda and Sheik are the same character, but they do take up 2 individual slots on the character select menu.)

I'm a little confused to your comparison of Roy with Doc/Young Link though. Roy, as far as I'm aware (I could be wrong) hasn't had any of his attacks given to another character, like Doc has had most of his good stuff given to Mario or YL had some of his given to Link/TL.

Was Pichu really so much better than Pikachu for an experienced Pichu player? He always seemed to be a pale comparison to his more grown up counterpart in power. Of course, I'm not and wasn't really a Pichu player, so I could very well be wrong.

 

[MagnesD3]

Add the forbidden 7 to fill all 7 slots?

 

[trojanpooh]

I'm not completely against the idea of Doc, provided that the PMBR could make him completely different. Doc would need a major overhaul as Mario is just about everything Doc was and more with his agility and Doc's power.

I have to disagree with the inclusion of Young Link though, as this game already has 5 Zelda characters and anymore reaches into Pokemon's levels of massive over-saturation. (True, you could argue that Zelda and Sheik are the same character, but they do take up 2 individual slots on the character select menu.)

I'm a little confused to your comparison of Roy with Doc/Young Link though. Roy, as far as I'm aware (I could be wrong) hasn't had any of his attacks given to another character, like Doc has had most of his good stuff given to Mario or YL had some of his given to Link/TL.

Was Pichu really so much better than Pikachu for an experienced Pichu player? He always seemed to be a pale comparison to his more grown up counterpart in power. Of course, I'm not and wasn't really a Pichu player, so I could very well be wrong.

What I meant with the Roy comparison was that Roy is famous in Melee for having plenty of good moves but failing as a character for being in cohesive. So just because Link inherited some moves from Young Link or Mario got some Doc moves doesn't mean that these characters are going to click with the fans that love playing as them. Were Project M an official release I'd agree that 3 Links is too much, but it's a fan game meant to be based on Melee and as is Young Link is a character who honestly isn't represented.

As for Pichu, he wasn't better, but he was faster and stronger and, in my opinion, controlled better. His weight and damaging gimmick were big enough to really hurt his potential, so you aren't wrong in saying he pales in comparison, but to say he offered nothing over Pikachu is wrong and unlike the Doc and Young Link, none of his play style was given to Pikachu. And again, just because he was bad in Melee doesn't mean he doesn't deserve another shot (See: Roy/fan buzz over Mewtwo)

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

What I meant with the Roy comparison was that Roy is famous in Melee for having plenty of good moves but failing as a character for being in cohesive. So just because Link inherited some moves from Young Link or Mario got some Doc moves doesn't mean that these characters are going to click with the fans that love playing as them. Were Project M an official release I'd agree that 3 Links is too much, but it's a fan game meant to be based on Melee and as is Young Link is a character who honestly isn't represented.

As for Pichu, he wasn't better, but he was faster and stronger and, in my opinion, controlled better. His weight and damaging gimmick were big enough to really hurt his potential, so you aren't wrong in saying he pales in comparison, but to say he offered nothing over Pikachu is wrong and unlike the Doc and Young Link, none of his play style was given to Pikachu. And again, just because he was bad in Melee doesn't mean he doesn't deserve another shot (See: Roy/fan buzz over Mewtwo)

Okay, I see what you mean. Though as far as it being a fan game, I don't like to think of Project M like that, since it's already so much better than what our official Nintendo Smash Bros games have given us recently.

Three characters with the same moves that vary in use seems a bit much though, if they were going to put Young Link in, I would prefer him to be drastically different from either Link or Toon Link in what specials and normals he had. A Melee Young Link would feel like a complete waste of space to me since Tink was basically that before the Project M crew started messing with him. Granted, there were little differences, but they weren't at the same level as now.

I'd be all for giving Pikachu more of Pichu's upsides, after all, he's rumored to be Melee's Pichu anyways. May as well carry the strength of both characters, right?

 

[trojanpooh]

The issue with Pichu is he plays drastically differently than Pikachu. You can't just throw a few of his moves on and hope they stick because they wouldn't. It'd be like giving Captain Falcon some of Ganondorf's moves, it wouldn't make any sense. I'd much rather have two Pikachu's so I could pick my play style. I'm honestly pretty surprised at how many people here are so opposed to clones being added despite theoretically being Melee fans. I mean, I get it on the Smash 4 boards where people are expected to be more casual, but Melee is notorius for it's tourneys being dominated by Fox and Falco. Why would adding more clones be such a bad thing, especially considering how much easier it'd make the lives of the PMBR versus adding new characters?

Personally, what I'd like to see is the old cast return 100%, and then maybe some new clones of characters who have never been cloned before. I think Bowser Jr, for example, would make a really interesting Bowser alt.

 

[Vashimus]

Pichu's biggest short-comings were his self-damaging attacks and being the lightest character in the game, on top of also inheriting Pikachu's main weaknesses (crappy range, poor approach). I remember they took away the self-damage infliction and gave Pichu some other buffs in SD Remix, and just like that he was one of the best characters in the game. If they gave us a better Pichu in P:M, there would probably be little reason to pick Pikachu at all. Which honestly, I don't want to happen. I'd find it easier to incorporate some Pichu traits into Pika.

I'd like Pichu's Up-B angles on Pikachu's, for instance.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

I'm not completely against clones, I just don't think Pichu is worth a slot, I didn't think Pichu was worth a slot in Melee either. I'd rather see Pikachu and Pichu merged into one character than I'd like to see yet more Pokemon being put in a game bogged down by Pokemon.

 

[Archangel]

Well, There are only 7 total slots 1 of which is already occupied and another that will likely go to mewtwo. leaving 5.

Counting Mewtwo that makes 7 pokemon in PM which I believe is more than enough. So with the 5 remaining spacies I think adding characters like Christal for example who's technically new would be better than putting in another pokemon..especially pichu.

 

[Nausicaa]

I'm glad the forbidden 7 never made it into the game.
It made this possible.
It made Mewtwo, Roy, and others WAY more hype than directly-implemented.
It made...

Oh, Tetra would be sweet.
She would've been cool in the game instead of Forbidden 7. Would've been weird to see what kind of move-set Nintendo was going to give her.


Edit: Oh gawzsh

5 remaining spacies

Krystal, Slippy, Peppy... etc?

Oh gawzsh the SHINES!!!

 

[trojanpooh]

Pichu's biggest short-comings were his self-damaging attacks and being the lightest character in the game, on top of also inheriting Pikachu's main weaknesses (crappy range, poor approach). I remember they took away the self-damage infliction and gave Pichu some other buffs in SD Remix, and just like that he was one of the best characters in the game. If they gave us a better Pichu in P:M, there would probably be little reason to pick Pikachu at all. Which honestly, I don't want to happen. I'd find it easier to incorporate some Pichu traits into Pika.

I'd like Pichu's Up-B angles on Pikachu's, for instance.

Or they could buff him in a way that doesn't make Pikachu redundant. Pikachu and Pichu have completely different play styles, like any other clone out there, so there's no reason why he can't exist alongside Pikachu. You don't see people complaining about Roy making Marth obsolete or Ganondorf making Captain Falcon pointless. It's the same damn thing except people have an unfounded hatred towards Pichu.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

I'm glad the forbidden 7 never made it into the game.
It made this possible.
It made Mewtwo, Roy, and others WAY more hype than directly-implemented.
It made...

Oh, Tetra would be sweet.
She would've been cool in the game instead of Forbidden 7. Would've been weird to see what kind of move-set Nintendo was going to give her.


Edit: Oh gawzsh

Krystal, Slippy, Peppy... etc?

Oh gawzsh the SHINES!!!

Somehow I have a feeling that if Nintendo would have designed Tetra, she'd just play like a floatier Sheik without any thought put into the fact that they were completely different people.

Hahaha, Krystal, Peppy, Slippy, Leon, and Panther. So many shines, though if Peppy's didn't have him saying Barrel Roll, I'd be a little disappointed.

 

[MagnesD3]

For the Five Id add Ridley, Krystal, Lyn, Little Mac, Isaac (3 are assist trophies so maybe that helps)

 

[GreenMunchkin]

What I would like to see is a Pichu with powerful attacks and really good chaingrabs.



...Or they could just add Ice Climbers.

 

[MVP]

If doc in now a mario alt.... then i'll be pichu will NOT be returning as a playable character.... same with young link

 

[trojanpooh]

If doc in now a mario alt.... then i'll be pichu will NOT be returning as a playable character.... same with young link

If a character who is already in Project M in spirit and shares a perfect body build with the character he's embodied is an alt then a character who plays wildly differently than his represented counterpart and has a totally different model and has room for improvement and inovation won't be playable either.

 

[MVP]

If a character who is already in Project M in spirit and shares a perfect body build with the character he's embodied is an alt then a character who plays wildly differently than his represented counterpart and has a totally different model and has room for improvement and inovation won't be playable either.

Toon link in PM is 64 link, melee Young link, and brawl toon link all put into one.

 

[trojanpooh]

I'm talking about Pichu.