Initial Super Smash Wii U Tier List by CT ZeRo

[Yodude57]

This just goes to show how young the Smash Bros community is. Anyone who tries to make a tier list for this game at this point should just be laughed at.

This tier list devalues the merit that real tier lists have. Without extensive experience with matchups this tier list holds no weight.

He sure has a lot more experience with this game than you do so his argument is much more valid than yours. Besides he said this is just his opinion and that it was bound to change! Don't you people read! And how does that devalue the value of other tier lists? Just because someone makes a bad video game doesn't "devalue" other video games. And besides why can't he have his own opinion and why should he be laughed at? I though the whole point of smashboards was to talk about smash not knock on other peoples more intelligent guesses. Well I must be mistaken because it is probably a stupid idea to talk about smash bros on a forum entirely dedicated to smash bros! (sarcasm)

 

[GOLDENMOP]

If DK is finally good in Tournament play there is a strong chance that he might be my main in this game, then again, he already is one of my mains in PM and Melee, so I'll use him regardless
HYPE

 

[ryan]

Why are so many people knocking on this tier list. It is more accurate than 99 percent of the people on smash bros who say that it is inaccurate and useless. I'm sorry I must be mistaken I didn't know that we went on smashboards to talk about smash (sarcasm). Besides he said it was just his opinion and that it was bound to change. Seriously, can someone please answer as to why people are knocking this I thought that the point of smashboards was to TALK ABOUT SMASH not to knock on people's more intelligent guesses of things. So before anyone continues to knock on this pretty decent tier list, how about you make a real comment instead of just knocking a guy who knows more about this game and smash in general than you do.

That is the thing, he really doesn't know more than the rest of us(If u participated in the best buy smashes). It is also not an accurate because he didnt even play those characters himself?(not to mention sonic) People are knocking the tier list because he is drawing to quick of any conclusions, just because he has the spotlight still. I would say also people are not accepting to his "opinion" because every saw how he played with the only character he actually used, being cheap the whole time. Tier lists are not based off opinions either.

 

[ryan]

Whoops gdi phone lag >.<

 

[ryan]

Didnt mean to spam that one

 

[Venks]

He sure has a lot more experience with this game than you do so his argument is much more valid than yours. Besides he said this is just his opinion and that it was bound to change! Don't you people read! And how does that devalue the value of other tier lists? Just because someone makes a bad video game doesn't "devalue" other video games. And besides why can't he have his own opinion and why should he be laughed at? I though the whole point of smashboards was to talk about smash not knock on other peoples more intelligent guesses. Well I must be mistaken because it is probably a stupid idea to talk about smash bros on a forum entirely dedicated to smash bros! (sarcasm)

You're 16 years old. Did you note the part where I said the Smash community is too young?

Anyways tier lists are based off of match up experience and the potential of each character. No one knows how to play Rosalina, Little Mac, Mega Man, Villager, or Greninja yet. Not to mention not enough time was spent with any of the veterans, or the game, to properly understand how everything works.

If you look at fighting games like Ultra Street Fighter IV you'll see that a tier list for that didn't come out until about 10 days after the game came out in arcades. And even then it was still just an 'Early Tier List'. But even at that point of time the top players in Japan had poured themselves into the game and were testing match ups and comparing frame data for every character in the game. The amount of research that went into that compared to Ct Zero's top of the head impression is very different. Especially since a lot of the matches they played were four person FFAs with items. Like come on.

"Sonic - No one played him!!! Putting him in the middle to be safe."

That's not a tier list. That's just impressions.

 

[KenboCalrissian]

Seriously, can someone please answer as to why people are knocking this I thought that the point of smashboards was to TALK ABOUT SMASH not to knock on people's more intelligent guesses of things.

Knocking on a 6-month premature tier list is talking about Smash

I'm going to point at the "Nobody played (Sonic)" comment again because I just found this video posted on Nintendo's Twitter. In it, HBox, ZeRo, and PPMD play one of the Treehouse developers the day after the tournament, before ZeRo commented with this tier list. Skip ahead to 28:56, and you'll see ZeRo getting to see some Sonic play (and that's besides the 2 days he had to practice the game, during which I hope somebody gave the blue blur a chance!)

When you combine his words with what we see that he knows, it tells a story. It doesn't necessarily mean the guy doesn't know what he's talking about, but at the very least it means he himself wasn't that serious about the tier list when he made it. Either way, it's not a very valuable list to defend - it just goes to show it's not always best to be first.

(Also, in that link up there, skip ahead to 24:00 if you want to see what happens when HBox and ZeRo get a rematch. You won't regret it!)

 

[210stuna]

Lol tier lists

 

[Alex Night]

This is quite a joke, honestly.
But let's just hope M2K plays Link this time around.

Good God, no. Keep him away from my other boy. He can have Mega Man for all I care. xD

 

[Wasp]

lol, this list...

 

[MP8]

Can't believe someone made a tier list for an incomplete game.

 

[grizby2]

tier list for an incomplete game could help with future development. it can help tell where there should be changes within a character.

little mac sounds like the new ganondorf as of now

 

[Radical Larry]

Good God, no. Keep him away from my other boy. He can have Mega Man for all I care. xD

Why? He may actually make Link broken in a Smash game for once.

 

[Yodude57]

tier list for an incomplete game could help with future development. it can help tell where there should be changes within a character.

little mac sounds like the new ganondorf as of now

This is one reason I think that the tier list is useful too. Thanks for posting this! But sadly we don't know how accurate it is so well just have to wait and see...

 

[Yodude57]

Knocking on a 6-month premature tier list is talking about Smash

I'm going to point at the "Nobody played (Sonic)" comment again because I just found this video posted on Nintendo's Twitter. In it, HBox, ZeRo, and PPMD play one of the Treehouse developers the day after the tournament, before ZeRo commented with this tier list. Skip ahead to 28:56, and you'll see ZeRo getting to see some Sonic play (and that's besides the 2 days he had to practice the game, during which I hope somebody gave the blue blur a chance!)

When you combine his words with what we see that he knows, it tells a story. It doesn't necessarily mean the guy doesn't know what he's talking about, but at the very least it means he himself wasn't that serious about the tier list when he made it. Either way, it's not a very valuable list to defend - it just goes to show it's not always best to be first.

(Also, in that link up there, skip ahead to 24:00 if you want to see what happens when HBox and ZeRo get a rematch. You won't regret it!)

Thanks for your input and the link much appreciated!

 

[Yodude57]

You're 16 years old. Did you note the part where I said the Smash community is too young?

Anyways tier lists are based off of match up experience and the potential of each character. No one knows how to play Rosalina, Little Mac, Mega Man, Villager, or Greninja yet. Not to mention not enough time was spent with any of the veterans, or the game, to properly understand how everything works.

If you look at fighting games like Ultra Street Fighter IV you'll see that a tier list for that didn't come out until about 10 days after the game came out in arcades. And even then it was still just an 'Early Tier List'. But even at that point of time the top players in Japan had poured themselves into the game and were testing match ups and comparing frame data for every character in the game. The amount of research that went into that compared to Ct Zero's top of the head impression is very different. Especially since a lot of the matches they played were four person FFAs with items. Like come on.

"Sonic - No one played him!!! Putting him in the middle to be safe."

That's not a tier list. That's just impressions.

Well now that u put it like that saying that, saying that it isn't even a tier list, it makes more sense. Thanks for replying!

 

[Elite Smasher]

Why are so many people knocking on this tier list. It is more accurate than 99 percent of the people on smash bros who say that it is inaccurate and useless. I'm sorry I must be mistaken I didn't know that we went on smashboards to talk about smash (sarcasm). Besides he said it was just his opinion and that it was bound to change. Seriously, can someone please answer as to why people are knocking this I thought that the point of smashboards was to TALK ABOUT SMASH not to knock on people's more intelligent guesses of things. So before anyone continues to knock on this pretty decent tier list, how about you make a real comment instead of just knocking a guy who knows more about this game and smash in general than you do.

You are very ignorant in a lot of things in your comment. For starters you have zero basis to say who has more knowledge on smash than someone else, very ignorant. Also you took it upon yourself to not even think or consider why many of us resent this preliminary tier list (or you stink at thinking and are uncreative). The statement "It is more accurate than 99 percent of the people on smash bros who say that it is inaccurate and useless." is the most quintessential example of your ignorance. You really sound like your too blind by rage to think clearly, but I'll respond to you anyway.

This tier list is completely and coherently inaccurate because of many reasons. For starters, We know not of many things in order to create a decent tier list such as all the characters and every single fact about their moveset (damage. knockback, hitstun, hitlag, frame data, follow ups, etc.), we don't know about all the stages and any character specific advantages, stale move negation, etc. My God! The game is not even finished!!! The characters we have already seen are most likely to be changed some how. The people who played them had insufficient time to learn all the ins and outs of the characters; thus new characters or significantly changed returning characters (i.e. Bowser, etc.) were significantly disadvantaged against the returning characters that just received some buffs and few other minor changes. Items were turned on throughout almost all (if not all) the demo games we saw in E3. Most of the "reasons" for placement are inaccurate and most characters' placement on this list dealt with how well they placed in matches and given items were on and almost all but like three or four games had more than two smashers on the stage makes for it to be extremely unreliable. If I were tasked with coming up with a tier list for smash boards based off E3 I would have wrote an essay on why I would not which would include much of the reasons I have on here.

You also called into question why we are discussing people's intelligence and not smash bros., here on smash boards. If you view my comment, I did not mention his intelligence once, but I simply summed up my mind on why I thought it was wrong to make a tier list. I am going to be polite and respectful and not comment on your intelligence because one comment is not enough analysis to make a fair and accurate statement. Stating my opinion that there should not be a preliminary tier list is indeed still talking about smash. Well, I hope this satisfies your want for a "real" comment.

 

[Yodude57]

You are very ignorant in a lot of things in your comment. For starters you have zero basis to say who has more knowledge on smash than someone else, very ignorant. Also you took it upon yourself to not even think or consider why many of us resent this preliminary tier list (or you stink at thinking and are uncreative). The statement "It is more accurate than 99 percent of the people on smash bros who say that it is inaccurate and useless." is the most quintessential example of your ignorance. You really sound like your too blind by rage to think clearly, but I'll respond to you anyway.

This tier list is completely and coherently inaccurate because of many reasons. For starters, We know not of many things in order to create a decent tier list such as all the characters and every single fact about their moveset (damage. knockback, hitstun, hitlag, frame data, follow ups, etc.), we don't know about all the stages and any character specific advantages, stale move negation, etc. My God! The game is not even finished!!! The characters we have already seen are most likely to be changed some how. The people who played them had insufficient time to learn all the ins and outs of the characters; thus new characters or significantly changed returning characters (i.e. Bowser, etc.) were significantly disadvantaged against the returning characters that just received some buffs and few other minor changes. Items were turned on throughout almost all (if not all) the demo games we saw in E3. Most of the "reasons" for placement are inaccurate and most characters' placement on this list dealt with how well they placed in matches and given items were on and almost all but like three or four games had more than two smashers on the stage makes for it to be extremely unreliable. If I were tasked with coming up with a tier list for smash boards based off E3 I would have wrote an essay on why I would not which would include much of the reasons I have on here.

You also called into question why we are discussing people's intelligence and not smash bros., here on smash boards. If you view my comment I did not mention his intelligence once, but simply summed up my mind on why I thought it was wrong to make a tier list. I am going to be polite and respectful and not comment on your intelligence because one comment is not enough analysis to make a fair and accurate statement. Stating my opinion that there should not be a preliminary tier list is indeed still talking about smash. Well, I hope this satisfies your want for a "real" comment.

Thanks for the input. Btw, ur right I was pretty mad but all I'm actually saying is that at this point in he game it is the best tier list you could make but, as you also pointed out, even that amount of info is not enough to actually justify a true tier list. I looked at it more as a general guideline so that we could see how characters performed at this point just for curiosity's sake not so much as an actual tier list so I was wondering why people were saying so many negative things about it. But now that I realize why everyone is taking this so seriously I can see why people think that it is inaccurate. But I would like to point out that I still don't think it is pointless (not saying you said this just putting it out their for others). Because it could potentially be used to tweak characters but I would still not fully go off of his tier list.

 

[Elite Smasher]

Thanks for the input. Btw, ur right I was pretty mad but all I'm actually saying is that at this point in he game it is the best tier list you could make but, as you also pointed out, even that amount of info is not enough to actually justify a true tier list. I looked at it more as a general guideline so that we could see how characters performed at this point just for curiosity's sake not so much as an actual tier list so I was wondering why people were saying so many negative things about it. But now that I realize why everyone is taking this so seriously I can see why people think that it is inaccurate. But I would like to point out that I still don't think it is pointless (not saying you said this just putting it out their for others). Because it could potentially be used to tweak characters but I would still not fully go off of his tier list.

Like I said before, if you do the math, this tier list basically placed people by how well they ranked after each match. If you consider that good enough for a preliminary tier list, well then I guess by all means enjoy it. I suppose you could say that its the best possible tier list as of now since I myself don't want to make one without all the right information.... So, I guess you are right in the sense that it's a good PERLIMINARY tier list... just not a real one, which is what I viewed it as. I would like to apologize for any harsh feelings during our misunderstandings.

 

[Yodude57]

Like I said before, if you do the math, this tier list basically placed people by how well they ranked after each match. If you consider that good enough for a preliminary tier list, well then I guess by all means enjoy it. I suppose you could say that its the best possible tier list as of now since I myself don't want to make one without all the right information.... So, I guess you are right in the sense that it's a good PERLIMINARY tier list... just not a real one, which is what I viewed it as. I would like to apologize for any harsh feelings during our misunderstandings.

No hard feelings man hope I see you on smash Speaking of which... Which version/versions are u getting?

 

[Elite Smasher]

No hard feelings man hope I see you on smash Speaking of which... Which version/versions are u getting?

As a veteran of the series with all the past titles, I am a bit more on the "hardcore" side of things smash related, so I'll be purchasing both the 3DS & Wii U version of the game. How about you?

 

[ＪｎＬ]

character tier will change until game released... hope marth could be high tier again

 

[Yodude57]

As a veteran of the series with all the past titles, I am a bit more on the "hardcore" side of things smash related, so I'll be purchasing both the 3DS & Wii U version of the game. How about you?

I would get both but sadly I can only get the 3ds version which I still think is awesome but I wish I could get the wii u version too. At least I'm getting portable smash power!

 

[MP8]

tier list for an incomplete game could help with future development. it can help tell where there should be changes within a character.

little mac sounds like the new ganondorf as of now

I could only see that being true if the developers both saw and cared about this tier list. That, I'm not sure about. Besides, some characters were intentionally made to have flaws. Take Little Mac for example. There's no way they are going to put revision to lets say, his recovery. Because like his trailer said, he's no aerial fighter.

 

[4cast]

Jeez I'm actually really happy with this Tier list! DK Mario finally getting some Buffs Happy with the way they have handled pit too I'm hoping the villager can move up a bit Though The tree move actually seems like a great counter for moves like Greninja's Shadow sneak and Mac Straight Lunge I'm Glad I predicted Mac being Trash but this is just early gameplay so who knows but I'm hoping I can somehow Figure out the potential in the Villager and become Really good with him i'll be trying Rosalina out also My mains so far are looking like Peach was my main in Brawl so I'm happy that her Dash Attack is buffed And I'm happy with changes Mario and Samus have gotten also

 

[ryan]

whatttt peach, where? Your emoticons know more than we do?

 

[Deleted member]

I know Zero is a very intelligent player, but I don't trust a tier list made less than a year after the game's release, and I especially don't trust a tier list made BEFORE the game's release.

 

[TheLippyLapras]

This tier list was good for one day and one day only XD

 

[Reborn2424]

If Kirby and pit are top tier... anyone remember its sakurai making this game. I guess he really loves his characters.

 

[Xenorange]

No love for Sonic I see, depressing indeed.

 

[KenboCalrissian]

No love for Sonic I see, depressing indeed.

As someone who played Sonic at BB, I would be shocked to see him stuck in mid-tier. First time playing him, I tied with a Greninja at +2 (5 kills, 3 deaths in 2 minutes). He finally feels as fast as he should, and he really takes advantage of Smash 4's smoother gameplay.

 

[Xenorange]

As someone who played Sonic at BB, I would be shocked to see him stuck in mid-tier. First time playing him, I tied with a Greninja at +2 (5 kills, 3 deaths in 2 minutes). He finally feels as fast as he should, and he really takes advantage of Smash 4's smoother gameplay.

Yeah, I felt the same way when I played as him at Best Buy too.

 

[Rage83]

A tier list before the game is even released, based on one day of matches in a demo? *facepalm*

 

[mariop476]

I played as Little Mac twice, once against CPUs in Smash Run, and once against my friends, one of whom had played before (and was playing as Kirby), and I destroyed both times, with +20 in Smash Run, and +8 in the match with my friends.
He's incredibly powerful and can chase down people easily. His recovery also isn't as bad as it was made out to be.

I went into Sudden Death against Kirby, and Mac can act incredibly quickly, as I defeated Kirby in less than a second.

 

[BaPr]

I swear, if Kirby is actually top tier...

 

[mariop476]

Kirby is REALLY good in the air from what I've seen. His dair twirl-kick captures people inside of it. I wasn't able to DI out of it.

 

[LEGOfan12]

A tier list on a game that hasn't came out yet, how silly.

 

[Bedoop]

I will agree with Little Mac's tier placement, because if he gets grabbed, that terrible air game of his will pretty much make it very hard for him to avoid getting juggled to death. To add insult to injury, Little Mac actually has to risk getting grabbed if he wants to use his best attacks.

Yes he's a heavy hitter while on the ground, but with such an atrocious aerial game, Little Mac is pretty much Smash 4's answer to Melee's Roy, if not worse.

*Mains Roy in Melee*
OH, I'M GONNA HAVE A LOT OF FUN.

 

[YAYCONFORMITY]

He sure has a lot more experience with this game than you do so his argument is much more valid than yours. Besides he said this is just his opinion and that it was bound to change! Don't you people read! And how does that devalue the value of other tier lists? Just because someone makes a bad video game doesn't "devalue" other video games. And besides why can't he have his own opinion and why should he be laughed at? I though the whole point of smashboards was to talk about smash not knock on other peoples more intelligent guesses. Well I must be mistaken because it is probably a stupid idea to talk about smash bros on a forum entirely dedicated to smash bros! (sarcasm)

He should be laughed at because it's stupid. And him putting in a disclaimer about how stupid it is doesn't make it any less stupid.

Now, there is nothing wrong with giving initial impressions based on a demo. Of course we want input from top players. But, trying to order characters from best to worst based on such limited experience is just silly. Putting a character on a tier list after saying noone played as him is even dumber. Even if a top player owned the game, played it for a week straight, and then made a tier list it would be ridiculous, so this is even moreso.

 

[Yodude57]

He should be laughed at because it's stupid. And him putting in a disclaimer about how stupid it is doesn't make it any less stupid.

Now, there is nothing wrong with giving initial impressions based on a demo. Of course we want input from top players. But, trying to order characters from best to worst based on such limited experience is just silly. Putting a character on a tier list after saying noone played as him is even dumber. Even if a top player owned the game, played it for a week straight, and then made a tier list it would be ridiculous, so this is even moreso.

First of all, I was mad and just felt like putting my feelings in this post. Second, if you were following the replies that followed after this post you will see my real stance on this and btw he still shouldn't be laughed at. I could just as easily laugh at you for not even knowing what's going on (aka being stupid about the subject) before replying so next time you should check before replying.