In my opinion, Sakurai could have done a better job with balancing the game.

[PKNintendo]

Okay, we know how how some higher tiered characters are overpowered right? (Snake, MK)

what about the lower tiered characters? Sakurai had SOME many ways to make some low tier characters better. If Samus had a really good killer=Instant high tier. She's an impressive camper, and underrated, but so many lower tiered characters would do better if Sakurai TRIED to balance the characters.

It's impossible to balance a fighting game, but I felt like Brawl was a candy store for Sakurai. He's favorites being MK, DDD, Snake, G&W, Wario e.c.t.

Unfavorable ones being, CF, Samus e.c.t.

Next game, Sakurai should hire a professional to balance each character out.

 

[ph00tbag]

You think?

Actually, there are a lot of things Sakurai could have done better, but they have been listed many times before this thread.

Edit: I dislike accusing Sakurai of playing favorites, though. Frankly, I don't think he knows a thing about balancing a fighting game, which would explain the imbalance much better.

 

[PKNintendo]

You think?

Actually, there are a lot of things Sakurai could have done better, but they have been listed many times before this thread.

Sakurai clearly plays favorites.

EX:
Wario games ROCK. Make him high. (well who could blame, Wario games are THAT good)

Metrod games suck (intentional typo) Why does Samus always lose her stuff?

I think MG games are top tier! So... Snake is top tier!

But I always thought that F-Zero games sucked. Hard.

I hate Bowser since he captures the Princess. Let's make him slow but strong.
but sir, everyone knows speed with a little power>no speed, alot of power
SHUT UP! I make the game. That reminds me, let's make Ike slow and strong too!

 

[Shy Guy 86]

I believe that Decloning Gannon and Wolf is an easy thing aswell, and removing Toon Link for Mewtwo/Roy would be better

 

[Yuna]

Of course he could. Because the game is horrible imbalanced.

 

[Amide]

He doesn't play favorites. Kirby sucked in Melee. But the reason why the game is so unbalanced *Meta Knight* is because he expects you to play with items. For example, if competitive play used items, like you're "supposed too," Sonic wouldn't be as bad. Same with Link, and CF(Smashballs). I'm still surprised at that bad job he did though.

 

[Yuna]

He doesn't play favorites. Kirby sucked in Melee. But the reason why the game is so unbalanced *Meta Knight* is because he expects you to play with items. For example, if competitive play used items, like you're "supposed too," Sonic wouldn't be as bad. Same with Link, and CF(Smashballs). I'm still surprised at that bad job he did though.

Only with items on, the game wouldn't suddenly be more balanced, it's just be rebalanced. In fact, it'd be more imbalanced because most of the best characters in the game are already among the best despite lacking projectiles. Now imagine them with projectiles.

 

[ph00tbag]

Sakurai clearly plays favorites.

EX:
Wario games ROCK. Make him high. (well who could blame, Wario games are THAT good)

Metrod games suck (intentional typo) Why does Samus always lose her stuff?

I think MG games are top tier! So... Snake is top tier!

But I always thought that F-Zero games sucked. Hard.

I hate Bowser since he captures the Princess. Let's make him slow but strong.
but sir, everyone knows speed with a little power>no speed, alot of power
SHUT UP! I make the game. That reminds me, let's make Ike slow and strong too!

The primary problem with your theory: Sakurai has listed Captain Falcon as high among his favorite characters, and the level of detail that went into the character's design shows that. Still, he's the worst character in the game. Sakurai wasn't looking for that, though, since he doesn't actually care that certain characters win.

 

[PKNintendo]

Another example is the females. Sakurai gave Peach, ZSS, Samus, and Jiggs killing problems. He also made them light! That screams of sexism imo. I mean, Peach is good, but she would be way,way,way better if she had great killers, and wasn't light. So not only do we have bad balancing, we have a sexist game maker too.

Sir, you made most of the females weak. What about Zelda?
Duh, Zelda has magic, therefore even though she is female, she can KO.
facepalm, headesk

 

[bobson]

Metrod games suck (intentional typo) Why does Samus always lose her stuff?

But I always thought that F-Zero games sucked. Hard.

I hate Bowser since he captures the Princess. Let's make him slow but strong.
but sir, everyone knows speed with a little power>no speed, alot of power
SHUT UP! I make the game. That reminds me, let's make Ike slow and strong too!

Another example is the females. Sakurai gave Peach, ZSS, Samus, and Jiggs killing problems. He also made them light! That screams of sexism imo. I mean, Peach is good, but she would be way,way,way better if she had great killers, and wasn't light. So not only do we have bad balancing, we have a sexist game maker too.

Peach, Samus, Captain Falcon, and Jigglypuff were all good in Melee. (And Zelda was bad, for that matter.) Bowser was buffed a little in Brawl.

 

[Talvi]

Some of the stronger characters are made to make some series regain popularity. Why make Mario and Link strong when they are so known? Better make Kirby characters strong, because there's a long time since the last Kirby game, and that will make the next Kirby game sell more. Melee made Fire Emblem known. Pit is there probably because of the Kid Icarus game they will probably make. And so on.

 

[ph00tbag]

Another example is the females. Sakurai gave Peach, ZSS, Samus, and Jiggs killing problems. He also made them light! That screams of sexism imo. I mean, Peach is good, but she would be way,way,way better if she had great killers, and wasn't light. So not only do we have bad balancing, we have a sexist game maker too.

Sir, you made most of the females weak. What about Zelda?
Duh, Zelda has magic, therefore even though she is female, she can KO.
facepalm, headesk

Ok, now you've gotta be messing with us. No one says stuff this stupid. Even on the internet.

 

[Kasai]

Another example is the females. Sakurai gave Peach, ZSS, Samus, and Jiggs killing problems. He also made them light! That screams of sexism imo. I mean, Peach is good, but she would be way,way,way better if she had great killers, and wasn't light. So not only do we have bad balancing, we have a sexist game maker too.
[/i]

Samus is actually a heavy weight, she's just floaty (which =/= light).

And I mean, you have to think logically when you're talking about the way characters are made.
Bowser being slow and strong attacks - he's a huge, tank-like, turtle. He should be slow and strong.

Jiggs - she's the balloon pokemon. If she wasn't light, something would be very wrong. Also, because she's light, having slow attacks would be a very bad idea (because she wouldn't be able to get hits in and would die quickly. If they give her fast hits, she can't be a powerhouse.

ZSS/Peach - same deal. Peach can float, ZSS isn't huge/fat. They can't make them heavyweights and as a result, they have to have somewhat poor killing abilities.

The only real character that is both light and a very good killer is G&W, and I suppose he has 2D johns.

But yeah, a lot of the character builds are due to logic and changing them dramatically would have been a mistake on his part. Now balancing them, while still keeping the logical strength/speed of each one, is something that he definitely could have done better.


Also, one last note. Just because a character is good, does not mean that Sakurai "favorites" them. I mean, some characters become good once metagame is developed, others are especially good under the competitive ruleset and could be possibly worse (or at least might place differently) under different rulesets. You have to consider the fact that sakurai definitely did not sit down, play and develop the metagame for each character while designing them.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

Okay, we know how how some higher tiered characters are overpowered right? (Snake, MK)

what about the lower tiered characters? Sakurai had SOME many ways to make some low tier characters better. If Samus had a really good killer=Instant high tier. She's an impressive camper, and underrated, but so many lower tiered characters would do better if Sakurai TRIED to balance the characters.

It's impossible to balance a fighting game, but I felt like Brawl was a candy store for Sakurai. He's favorites being MK, DDD, Snake, G&W, Wario e.c.t.

Unfavorable ones being, CF, Samus e.c.t.

Next game, Sakurai should hire a professional to balance each character out.

Sakurai clearly plays favorites.

EX:
Wario games ROCK. Make him high. (well who could blame, Wario games are THAT good)

Metrod games suck (intentional typo) Why does Samus always lose her stuff?

I think MG games are top tier! So... Snake is top tier!

But I always thought that F-Zero games sucked. Hard.

I hate Bowser since he captures the Princess. Let's make him slow but strong.
but sir, everyone knows speed with a little power>no speed, alot of power
SHUT UP! I make the game. That reminds me, let's make Ike slow and strong too!

Another example is the females. Sakurai gave Peach, ZSS, Samus, and Jiggs killing problems. He also made them light! That screams of sexism imo. I mean, Peach is good, but she would be way,way,way better if she had great killers, and wasn't light. So not only do we have bad balancing, we have a sexist game maker too.

Sir, you made most of the females weak. What about Zelda?
Duh, Zelda has magic, therefore even though she is female, she can KO.
facepalm, headesk

My troll radar is going berserk. If you're not one, congratulations on knocking my faith in humanity down another peg. But just on that off chance:
How, exactly, did you come by your detailed knowledge of Sakurai's thought processes? Unless, of course, you just think you can know how Sakurai personally feels about a character based solely on how they turned out in a game he directed. ("Directed," not "Single-handedly produced," as some of you seem to think) That would be what we call circular logic.

Some of the stronger characters are made to make some series regain popularity. Why make Mario and Link strong when they are so known? Better make Kirby characters strong, because there's a long time since the last Kirby game, and that will make the next Kirby game sell more. Melee made Fire Emblem known. Pit is there probably because of the Kid Icarus game they will probably make. And so on.

Yeah, same goes for Snake, it's not like he's had any.... oops.

Well, they DEFINITELY needed the top tier hype for... ROB and Mr Game & Watch?....er....

I've got it! There hasn't been a F-Zero game in a while either! So naturally they'd... d'oh!

Alright, alright, but his theory still holds up if you look at the consistency among characters from the same series, right? I mean, for instance, look at how close on the tier list the... Pokemon characters... are. Hmmm.


Here's a news flash to everyone: there is no such thing as a balanced fighter. Put down your tinfoil hats and stop trying to look for hidden meanings in the balance or lack thereof in Brawl.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Sakurai didn't try to balance Brawl to be a 1v1, no-items tournament fighter. He did the opposite. He balanced the game around casual 4-player FFA with items on. I seriously doubt Sakurai gives a crap about tournament smash at all.

 

[Yuna]

Sakurai didn't try to balance Brawl to be a 1v1, no-items tournament fighter. He did the opposite. He balanced the game around casual 4-player FFA with items on. I seriously doubt Sakurai gives a crap about tournament smash at all.

It doesn't matter what his intentions were. 1-on-1, 4-man FFA, items on or off, no matter how we play the game, it's still horribly imbalanced. Turning items on and/or playing 4-man FFA doesn't randomly fix the game's blatant and numerous flaws. It just re-balanced the game slightly.

 

[Bowser King]

Another example is the females. Sakurai gave Peach, ZSS, Samus, and Jiggs killing problems. He also made them light! That screams of sexism imo. I mean, Peach is good, but she would be way,way,way better if she had great killers, and wasn't light. So not only do we have bad balancing, we have a sexist game maker too.

Sir, you made most of the females weak. What about Zelda?
Duh, Zelda has magic, therefore even though she is female, she can KO.
facepalm, headesk

You're taking this a little to far

I see that he did show biased tawords his characters. Just like how the creator or snake showed biased when he helped design snake.

Even in subspace, MK is some super awesome person who saves lucas and PT, climbs the mountain alone (ditching the other people) and has his ship as a major part of the story.
While kirby magically eats the token and has to journey out himself. That includes D3 (matbe not as much, because he partners up with 3 other people) as he to has a magical token >_>

 

[PassWurD]

It doesn't matter what his intentions were. 1-on-1, 4-man FFA, items on or off, no matter how we play the game, it's still horribly imbalanced. Turning items on and/or playing 4-man FFA doesn't randomly fix the game's blatant and numerous flaws. It just re-balanced the game slightly.

Inb410pagescause'Yunaishere

 

[Turbo Ether]

It doesn't matter what his intentions were. 1-on-1, 4-man FFA, items on or off, no matter how we play the game, it's still horribly imbalanced. Turning items on and/or playing 4-man FFA doesn't randomly fix the game's blatant and numerous flaws. It just re-balanced the game slightly.

I never said the game wasn't horribly imbalanced. Sakurai never intended for Smash games to be balanced tournament fighters, and Brawl is the culmination of that logic. Any attempt at balance in Brawl was made for the sake of FFA and items, not our tournament format. The fact that Melee was competitive at all was an accident.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

I see that he did show biased tawords his characters. Just like how the creator or snake showed biased when he helped design snake.

lol, yeah. Hideo Kojima helped balance the characters. THAT makes sense.

 

[Yuna]

I never said the game wasn't horribly imbalanced. Sakurai never intended for Smash games to be balanced tournament fighters, and Brawl is the culmination of that logic. Any attempt at balance in Brawl was made for the sake of FFA and items, not our tournament format. The fact that Melee was competitive at all was an accident.

Balanced tournament fighter or not, he specifically claimed he was setting out to balance the game... which he failed at... miserably. And tournament fighter or not, competent game designers don't produce imbalanced suckfests like Brawl, they have enough wits to not create characters like Meta-Knight and Snake.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Balanced tournament fighter or not, he specifically claimed he was setting out to balance the game... which he failed at... miserably. And tournament fighter or not, competent game designers don't produce imbalanced suckfests like Brawl, they have enough wits to not create characters like Meta-Knight and Snake.

Than apparently Sakurai is incompetent. No big deal, there are tons of better balanced games out there. People have spent 6-7 months complaining about Brawl when they could've just learned a better game.

 

[Yuna]

Than apparently Sakurai is incompetent.

I've been saying this for months.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Maybe they should let Capcom or Sammy develop SSB4. That would be epic.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Even the "brawl is for casual players"-argument is amazingly flawed. Melee - even if played casually - was 5902865798 times more fun for the higher speed alone...

 

[bobson]

Even the "brawl is for casual players"-argument is amazingly flawed. Melee - even if played casually - was 5902865798 times more fun for the higher speed alone...

Opinion. I prefer Brawl's physics over Melee's.

 

[Blackbelt]

Opinion. I prefer Brawl's physics over Melee's.

I agree with this guy.

 

[Crizthakidd]

lol hire a pro to balance a game? what kinda professional does that? a pro video game balancer

 

[Yukiwarashi]

You think?

Actually, there are a lot of things Sakurai could have done better, but they have been listed many times before this thread.

Edit: I dislike accusing Sakurai of playing favorites, though. Frankly, I don't think he knows a thing about balancing a fighting game, which would explain the imbalance much better.

Sakurai was definitely playing favourites with Metaknight and Dedede. There is no way you can argue against that.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

Opinion. I prefer Brawl's physics over Melee's.

I second that.

 

[PassWurD]

I second that.

Sakuriiiii, what have you doooooooooooooooooooone?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!

 

[PrinceMarthX]

Another example is the females. Sakurai gave Peach, ZSS, Samus, and Jiggs killing problems. He also made them light! That screams of sexism imo. I mean, Peach is good, but she would be way,way,way better if she had great killers, and wasn't light. So not only do we have bad balancing, we have a sexist game maker too.

Sir, you made most of the females weak. What about Zelda?
Duh, Zelda has magic, therefore even though she is female, she can KO.
facepalm, headesk

Common misconception: Jigglypuff does not have problem killing. All her smashes are great, plus she has rest and rollout.

 

[Yuna]

Common misconception: Jigglypuff does not have problem killing. All her smashes are great, plus she has rest and rollout.

I'm sorry, she has Rest and Rollout? Rollout is a horrible and predictable move and Rest has been nerfed into inifinity.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

And her smashes, good? Lack of range hurts. A lot.

 

[PrinceMarthX]

I'm sorry, she has Rest and Rollout? Rollout is a horrible and predictable move and Rest has been nerfed into inifinity.

Rollout is predictable but incredibly fast. Unless they dodge right as you launch, they won't be able to avoid the hit. Being predictable doesn't change the fact that it's incredibly powerful though. A good player will be able to use it against anyone. Rest has been nerfed but it's still very powerful. It can KO at 67%. Jigglypuff doesn't have to rely on her specials for kills. Like I said, her smashes are great. Up and forward smash can kill at 110% uncharged. Down smash sends them a dangerous low angle. Forward air can kill at 122% without even needing to wall of pain. Up tilt can kill at 126% and surprisingly her running attack kills at 149%. Jigglypuff is also godly at edge guarding.

Jigglypuff has a lot of problems but killing is not one of them.

 

[Sosuke]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=145377


Yuna don't waste your time with PrinceMarthX.
His posts aren't credible anymore.

 

[PrinceMarthX]

Your flawless argument triumphs mine. I guess I replied too much on facts. I'll be sure to learn from that.

 

[Rh1thmz]

That reminds me, let's make Ike slow and strong too!

Lol. And Ike was one of the fastest characters in Fire Emblem, too...


Anyways, from what I've heard, Sakurai didn't intend for Brawl to be a competitive game in the first place. What makes this really sad is that he kept putting off the release date time and time again...as in several months of putting off. This game him more and more time to make a better, more balanced game. Instead, he seemed to focus all of his efforts on making a more marketable game that is enjoyed by the masses rather than a more balanced game that is enjoyed more by the handful of competitive smashers. It's about the profit. Makes sense to me to make more money, but it hurts the competitive scene greatly when it's all about the profit.

So there's my answer.

 

[Ukemi]

It's really hard to balance a game with so many characters especially when he has no idea what bugs or glitches are going to be found in the future. If he can balance the game for casual players, that's already a big accomplishment. No one would have even thought of a concept like wavedashing before it was discovered. It's impossible to tell the future. It's not like he knew that a Dash Smash (Hyphen smash for all you conformists) would be possible in the game. You can only predict the future so much you see?

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

Sakurai was definitely playing favourites with Metaknight and Dedede. There is no way you can argue against that.

I believe I just did.

And it's funny how people who argue this always conveniently forget Kirby exists.