Improve your gameplay! - Mario Peer Review

[RPGsFTW]

I definitely understand guys, but the whole point in the fireball spam, which he never dodged very well, was all a psychological thing, as you should know. If you can annoy your opponent enough with one tactic that they can't avoid very well, then they will get flustered and play worse, making it easier for you. I fought the same guy from Grand Finals in the winner's bracket prior and eased myself into how he played, learning that I could abuse fireballs as such.

Unfortunately, I don't have as many chances to play on a regular basis to practice more often. Most of my practice consists of me by myself being sure I have most of my tech skill down. I'd definitely try more things out if I got to play more. I should be able to play for the first time since that tournament this Friday at a Smash meet up, but, otherwise, I don't get much chance.

 

[Nausicaa]

Simply make WDOOS the next priority technical thing to get down.
It's all good, everyone is just pointing out where work can be done. Friendly reminders in a peer review thread? No way!

 

[GeZ]

Replace this stuff with other stuff.
- Most Fireballs. (especially Dash Forward > WD Backward > Fireball repetition-without-accomplishing-anything-other-than-getting-D-Tilted/DD Grabbed)
You're not going to get anything out of zoning an opponent if you're not going for anything. Fireball to get in there/make holes, and take them, NOT for the sake of Fireballing.
SB's vid is good to watch for Fireballs that allow for opportunities. Unfortunately both players in their vid are doing the same things repeatedly as well and aren't picking up on it or adapting. Fortunately though, because of the lack of dynamics in their play and reliance on their capabilities within their limits, the entire video set is an example of the same thing over and over which is particularly directly helpful to you.
- Excessive D-Airs (Especially Full Hop Dair's asking to be Fair'd by Marth/Ivy/better aerial mobility/range stuff and losing stage control by giving up room) < guaranteed your reliance of Dair is a big part of why you hate Marth
You're not going to take away space from a character if you're giving them space by hoping they come to you, Nair instead even, it'll at least push them somewhere.
With both of these things, watch some vids of how others use these tools. You're relying on things within the limits of your play and not going beyond them, just like SB and everyone else. When you + SB + every Mario is literally playing the exact same character, and rarely branching into each others dynamics of how to use the tools you're all given aside from some basic WD Dmash/Dthrow > Fair stuff, it will be of value to attempt utilizing the different maneuvers and MANARISMS of different players with those same tools.
You do what you do for a reason.
SB does what he does for a reason.
Everyone does everything they do for a reason.
All of it works some of the time, find what that time is and use it, all the rest, take it out.
Chances are, somebody does something in those 'not-working-for-you' times that you can incorperate.
Purpose of vids. Use them, it will help you.

Replace a lot of stuff with this stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea_6Vik38ng#t=1m32s
The 1 second there, with the whole shielding thing, Wavedashing out, and punishing.
Do that. It works especially well against players who are just throwing things out they way you are 'because they can' and especially if you've established (conciously or not) that you play that kind of game.

Pull back, take a break, and block every single one of those all-too-obvious patterns the player is throwing out. Whether it's Leaf > Fair/Dtilt or Blaster > Nair/SideB, the things people do in these given vids are the same minute 1 of the first match and the last minute of the last. This should be abused. Not only for your own benefit, but for the benefit of others, as this will help your opponent and you develop the meta-game between YOURSELVES and improve your own play.
You own improvement is more for your opponents benefit then your own. If that makes sense to you, then use it, it will help you.

It's tough in-game, sure, but it's a lot easier to pull back than it is to push forward, it's just a matter of doing it, which is the greatest difference between 'good' players and 'great' players.
Most people are exactly there, and it's steady today as it was when PM first showed up. Take that step, you're as ready as ever.

Good stuff otherwise.
More nuance/character-related suggestions, for the sake of the thread. F-Tilt is good I heard, especially establishing that you're willing to trade it with things like Razer Leaf and D-Tilts first hit, etc... Completely takes away a lot of footziez games, which is where your neutral game seems to struggle (the whole Dair-hopes and hail-mary-Fireball stuff is a result of this uncertainty on how to maneuver and reluctance to shield/discomfort and uncertainty with WDOOS ground-game)
Stay grounded, be a rock, Ftilt, Dsmash (you did this once and it worked in the first match, and somehow you didn't pick up on its value and neglected it/didn't observe it), SH Nairs even.
Force crap on people directly if you want to play that style (pressure works better if you're making things happen rather than hoping they get caught by that rising Dair when you DO get in there... get in there FIRST).
A message for you (and your opponent), SB (and his opponent), and others, just stop jumping into ****.
There is way ****ing too much jumping into **** in the last few videos posted in this thread.
Like ****, you all know better than that.
LOL


/end typical show up and rant message for the month.
That all applies to everyone, so hopefully somebody gets something from it.

This post is damn good. Especially what you said about playing a character like other PEOPLE. I think that the metagame concerning play style is a lot more downplayed in the smash series than other fighting games. A good parallel to what your talking about is this American Street Fighter player, named PR Balrog. He is currently regarded as one of the best employers of the "play dumb" strategy. He's incredible in that he can play two matches of a set to 5 playing like himself. His pokes are calculated, footsies strong, and his game overall solid. Now you get to the third round and he begins by rushing you, as bluntly as possible. He beats a lot of players with this because he's ruining their rythm. Whatever ability they got to gauge his play is gone, and they have to quickly reaclimate to his strategy, or (in most situations), die.

This works, works ****ing WONDERS, in Project M, dualistically because of other players unfamiliarity with it, and it's effectiveness in any game that involves THINKING at odds with your opponent. It's usually a bit more complex than changing from staying back to pushing, but that outlines the concept pretty well.

I think that there's some validity to your comment on Strong Bad's matches, and his playstyle in them, in that he's playing a consistent Mario, which isn't bad, and for a lot of intents and purposes, is a lot of what his game plan boils down to. That thread you posted, DAT Mario, briefly talks about this, commenting on how one of Mario's greatest strengths is being able to play how he wants to play in most matches. On the flip side of that, I do also agree that after some scrutiny, and I'm guessing it's because they were friendlies, Oro and Strong Bad were playing a bit too formulaic.

Now (bear with me for a second) I want, desperately, FRANTICALLY, to stay on both these players good sides. I think that they're helpful, handy, contributing members of the forums and meta (let alone the freaking game). So I hope that it doesn't seem off color when I say the post by Nausicaa is pretty accurate. You could make a drinking game out of "Oro goes for the stun gun, jumps forward and neutral airs! Strong Bad is off the platform/ edgegaurding/ in his neutral game/ eating a particularly scrumptious scone, and goes for the fireball. It's evident that it's your comfort move, which isn't terrible in a sense, because it's (solid! A great tool! Dazzling with it's doilies and allure!)- but it makes you predictable, and glaringly shows where you're not quite sure what to do.
That, in and of itself, is very VERY dangerous because of it's relevance to your opponents reactivity and understanding of your game.

To add to the "Just shield and wait, see the patterns, be the wind" comment, it's very much complex yet simple. A good parable (again with the relating things to things, I apologize, won't you forgive me, dear reader?) is the experience most people have with shield grabbing when they first discover it. At first it's a novelty in that you can punish all these new things with grab. You, and your opponent, suddenly have to think harder about your options. But delving into it, you realize that it's a fantastic tool, in that it makes your opponent wary of you shielding as a state. What Nausicaa means when he/she (i dunno) says watch for patterns and punish is the relaying of the reapplication of the idea that you employ every time you shield grab. Watch your opponent, see any bad habits they have, formulate a counter (which can be anything, depends on what they're doing), and hit them with it righteously.
A polarizing (and simple) example is crouch cancel Dtilt'ing. Say that every time you sprint at someone, they crouch cancel your attack and Dtilt your face off. To be reactive, and improve, is to see this pattern and stop it, whether you shield the attack and grab, jump over it and counter attack, or break your friends tilting hand, you've defeated that pattern.

The results of this vary from player to player. Good players don't have many patterns to begin with, so when you do point one out, they make like a tree and cut it out. (doesn't make much sense, sue me). A BAD player, or more often an inexperienced one, will do that over and over again, granting you more facepunch cookies, and brownie points for being awfully perceptive.

So change it up! Play like a Guatemalan coke addict! (or in another fashion if you fall into that category already) Rush them, then control space, then punish, then do a jive.

But seriously, all of you, EVERY SINGLE MOUSTACHIOE'D PLUMBER, play different. Experiment. Don't let the opponent change what you're doing, but change what you're doing yourself to beat your opponent. Thine peers will thank thee.

 

[Nausicaa]

I think that the metagame concerning play style is a lot more downplayed in the smash series than other fighting games.

This works, works ****ing WONDERS, in Project M, dualistically because of other players unfamiliarity with it, and it's effectiveness in any game that involves THINKING at odds with your opponent. It's usually a bit more complex than changing from staying back to pushing, but that outlines the concept pretty well.

I think that there's some validity to your comment on Strong Bad's matches, and his playstyle in them, in that he's playing a consistent Mario, which isn't bad, and for a lot of intents and purposes, is a lot of what his game plan boils down to. That thread you posted, DAT Mario, briefly talks about this, commenting on how one of Mario's greatest strengths is being able to play how he wants to play in most matches. On the flip side of that, I do also agree that after some scrutiny, and I'm guessing it's because they were friendlies, Oro and Strong Bad were playing a bit too formulaic.

Now (bear with me for a second) I want, desperately, FRANTICALLY, to stay on both these players good sides. I think that they're helpful, handy, contributing members of the forums and meta (let alone the freaking game). So I hope that it doesn't seem off color when I say the post by Nausicaa is pretty accurate. You could make a drinking game out of "Oro goes for the stun gun, jumps forward and neutral airs! Strong Bad is off the platform/ edgegaurding/ in his neutral game/ eating a particularly scrumptious scone, and goes for the fireball. It's evident that it's your comfort move, which isn't terrible in a sense, because it's (solid! A great tool! Dazzling with it's doilies and allure!)- but it makes you predictable, and glaringly shows where you're not quite sure what to do.
That, in and of itself, is very VERY dangerous because of it's relevance to your opponents reactivity and understanding of your game.

To add to the "Just shield and wait, see the patterns, be the wind" comment, it's very much complex yet simple. A good parable (again with the relating things to things, I apologize, won't you forgive me, dear reader?) is the experience most people have with shield grabbing when they first discover it. At first it's a novelty in that you can punish all these new things with grab. You, and your opponent, suddenly have to think harder about your options. But delving into it, you realize that it's a fantastic tool, in that it makes your opponent wary of you shielding as a state. What Nausicaa means when he/she (i dunno) says watch for patterns and punish is the relaying of the reapplication of the idea that you employ every time you shield grab. Watch your opponent, see any bad habits they have, formulate a counter (which can be anything, depends on what they're doing), and hit them with it righteously.
A polarizing (and simple) example is crouch cancel Dtilt'ing. Say that every time you sprint at someone, they crouch cancel your attack and Dtilt your face off. To be reactive, and improve, is to see this pattern and stop it, whether you shield the attack and grab, jump over it and counter attack, or break your friends tilting hand, you've defeated that pattern.

So change it up! Play like a Guatemalan coke addict! (or in another fashion if you fall into that category already) Rush them, then control space, then punish, then do a jive.

But seriously, all of you, EVERY SINGLE MOUSTACHIOE'D PLUMBER, play different. Experiment. Don't let the opponent change what you're doing, but change what you're doing yourself to beat your opponent. Thine peers will thank thee.

The meta-game involving ones own play (as themselves) is even more down-played that player-vs-player meta-game, oddly.
So rarely do people give attention to their own mental contents and state of mind when playing, yet it comes FAR before any action or improvement that takes place in a game.

There's a reason the publicly view-able meta-game moved along like a slug for essentially all of 2.1, aside from a few hot-spots that never really showed up on the map, and this is a good summary of why that happened. Why some players can be playing in a 2.5 meta-game in a month, while the more active players grind themselves into conditioning. Being solid players, it breaks and molds into what's needed with time, but these steps can be skipped with a simple step backward to reflect. Hope that made sense.

Slightly off-topic, but valuable...
My comment was accurate, it's just a bit of a touchy thing to so directly say a somewhat personal blunt comment about the mental states on the internet/in other context/publicly. Oro and SB are fine, I'm sure. They're good people and good players. Everyone is on the same team, and the only reason people shun each other for anything is lacking the empathy of this, the awareness of this. But this is reasonable. If some random dude comes into a conversation and says something straight up about your personal mental state, it can seem very condescending, even opinionated when it can be a blanket statement of an event that just 'happens' to be.
I'm bad at this. It's probably once a month that it happens, you can look back at the TL boards another good person+player named dazrin or something, who thought I had an opinion on something when all I did was use him as an example, at his request, to point out a mental transition people take when learning the game. It all comes back to the same thing. Being present when playing. Fully conscious of the state of mind/awareness/where your attention is going, WHEN playing Smash.
This meta-game, the meta-game developed within the individual, comes before anything, and is frowned upon in discussion due to ignorance and nothing more.

With that, don't worry about people taking thing in a way you didn't mean to, just explain yourself as best you can. If a match between the 2 best people in the world has an example of what NOT to do, what could POSSIBLY be a better tool for helping someone? You have a video of the best, doing something someone else is struggling with! That's amazing, and the best you can do is be grateful that it's there, and hope the players are aware enough to accept and learn from it. If not, then it's essentially YOUR duty to help them with THAT awareness.
We're all in this together.

On-topic...
Bluntly...
1) Screw around more.
2) Take breaks.
2 of the most beneficial things towards the development of both an individuals AND a communities meta-games. Never let them slip in the learning process.

To put into more depth what you were elaborating on. First off, good examples and references to the novelty aspect of habit-breaking and habit-developing. This directly translates to gimmick-play and why someone aware of this phase can bypass it and literally excel beyond the rest of the community at ease with a new game/character/etc with this alone. It was all-too-easy, as for the most part, nothing has changed, and it takes people way longer than it should (top players included) to go through these necessary steps, simply because they don't even consider the steps to be there. It's funny.

Specifically this chunk could use touching up.

"The results of this vary from player to player. Good players don't have many patterns to begin with, so when you do point one out, they make like a tree and cut it out. (doesn't make much sense, sue me). A BAD player, or more often an inexperienced one, will do that over and over again, granting you more facepunch cookies, and brownie points for being awfully perceptive."

The difference between good players and great players is the fanciness around the fortress. All players who play with any form of regularity, or commitment, will develop a foundation to build upon. This foundation is what lets a player not have to learn everything on-the-fly from scratch every time they pick up the game. This is what solidifies a player to insure they'll do well in any and all situations. The 'Rock' of the Mario DAT thread explanation, in a way.
Building upon that is where the real dynamics of the game have to be developed. The player's own meta-game flushes out with depth, but this takes the conscious effort to break the mold, their OWN mold. It may shattered that foundation a little (make the player worse for a while) as they try to branch out, but this will only strengthen that foundation long-term, as the kinks are worked out.

Think of it this way. The meta-game won't change to adjust to how floaties like Jiggs/Peach play, unless Jiggs/Peach develop in meta-game. Someone has to BREAK the mold, and make these characters work the way we KNOW they CAN work. Not the way people generally think it, but without interpretations, how easy it is to see their game-play at a top level, even when not applied. This same thing applies to new characters introduced in new games. It's easy to see the future of the meta-game, but you can't just see this if you haven't developed your ABILITY to see this. You can BREAK the mold of your OWN meta-game, if you haven't tried (actually given attention to) developing your meta-game. You can't develop your meta-game if you haven't practiced meta-game-development.
Work on getting better before all else.
**** yourself up, because that's the only way you'll ever break ahead of yourself/others. You could play to what you are already aware of, expecting that playing within your current limits that way to excel you beyond them... Or instead, you could play with your awareness, being aware of your play so you can find something that will bring you beyond your current play/awareness limits.

Mind over matter. In all things. Smash included.

 

[GeZ]

Definitely definitely.

To see if I've got this right, great players are those who can not just have their solid basis, but develop their own ideas and tricks and tech and flair. They're people who have the gaul to do something completely out there (stupid? ridiculous) to throw off their opponent, and work well with it because they've built and broken down and rebuilt their basis to incorporate these ideas.

Mind over matter most definitely. That's always been the trademark of a fighting game. The better thinker is the better player. I'm just glad that it's not (totally) ignored or unknown within this games circles.

I'd love to get some sparring in, but I currently have the offline version of the game downloaded, am not too terribly solid when it comes to player interaction and the meta (due to my largely teaching my friends in town rather than being tested by them), and am afraid of having the gravity of my comments fall flat based on my (prospective) poor performance. I'll try to get a wifi compatible version of the game soon so I can start having all of the best ******** on this forum show me the business. Then I'll be able to improve, and talk with a bit more insight.

 

[Nausicaa]

To see if I've got this right, great players are those who can not just have their solid basis, but develop their own ideas and tricks and tech and flair. They're people who have the gaul to do something completely out there (stupid? ridiculous) to throw off their opponent, and work well with it because they've built and broken down and rebuilt their basis to incorporate these ideas.

Try not to think of it in terms of tangible tools they have. Like intuitive data-bases of experience, or previous tried and tested executions of play, or even knowledge of how to deal with something.

What's more important than that 'stuff' is the developed ability to see, adjust, and apply, whatever needs to be done to deal with 'stuff' the opponent sees/adjusts/applies in return/initially.
The awareness of how to develop knowledge on-the-fly far outmatches the knowledge itself.

Both good and great players will have habits, solid habits. Habits that you can't break by out-speeding them or out-maneuvering them. This is a given.
Both good and great players will break things, complete go off-base and find the kinks in the system that allow them to have the edge on opponents.

The habit that makes a difference is where, then? If both players can play with such a foundation that you can't crack it, and have catapults and archers in their fortress with ice arrows and weird crap nobody has seen before, what makes the difference?

It's not the habits in terms of actions and game-play execution decisions that makes the difference, it's the habit of constantly evolving in those areas. Constantly re-fortifying as the match flows, constantly looking for quirky things, nuances in the opponents play as well as their own. This isn't just a well-toned style of play through experience and brain-power, this is a state of awareness, a conscious action, an awareness of the experience at hand.
Edit: You can't be in a constant state of adaptation if you're not constantly in the moment, present, and aware. Remember, mind matters most.
THAT is the defining trait between good and great. NOT the tricks or solid base in terms of game-play and available knowledge/resources, but the frame of mind where this development is the center of attention above all else.
Hope that clears it up a bit more, but yeah, you basically got it.

Regarding the second thing. It's often overlooked that teaching is the best way to learn. Your intellect and insight will develop as quickly with weaker players as it would with better players, it's just a matter of how you use it. The best player still gets better, despite having no player to match them. From where you are, with what knowledge and resources you have, build yourself from the ground up. Build the community around you from the ground up, in a way that benefits everyone as best you see fit. Your prior teaching might even be coming through in your posts just here.

Take my word for it as a personal example. I had no community around me and nobody to play, and built it from the ground up literally out of random people who played the game casually and loved it, just by asking around. When Brawl came out, I won the first tournament with more than 100 players by abusing gimmicks that people hadn't caught on to yet, and yet I was a scrub that simply spent a short time teaching others how to learn quickly leading up to it. It had nothing to do with experience or execution, simply adapting to something that nobody had that 'foundation' built on yet. Since then, I've personally coached some of the top 'great' melee players to this day, and when PM came out, I broke the meta-game in a couple months.
I'm a scrub from a community of players much weaker and inactive than most, yet I've been able to compete at a world class level after only a few years with a few travels and proper work.
I'm also a scrub that has guided some of the key players leading the way, and post massive text essays on these forums with a means of helping the more public masses, and you're actually following what I'm saying, which many have troubles with as I go quite elaborate into depth. Yet I started out simply as someone who wanted to help others be the best they can be. Mental volition action (intention and execution to do your best for the better of everyone goes a long way) is all I brought with me, and I simply gave this attention in smash development with myself and others. Stick with awareness, and anything and everything will be second-nature.

Put your attention in the right place, and you'll be fine. Read the DAT threads. Find every nook and cranny and hole in the games of your friends, people you'll never meet, and yourself. Pay attention to what your attention is on. Be aware of your awareness. Take breaks to reflect, go on binges to master, MASTER and REFLECT upon your ability to reflect and master.
You already have your foot-in-the-door in terms of understanding of the game, more so than a lot of the community base, it's distinct simply by the way/what you post.
Stick with it, and keep working on it. Constantly re-fortifying, constantly finding the gimmicks and quirks and nuances of yourself, constantly shattering your view, and love every bit of it.
Here's a quote from Krishnamurti (I love this guy) to top this off.

"Think of method as a fine silvery stream, not a raging waterfall. It will go meandering here, trickling there. It will find the groves, the cracks, and the crevices. Just follow it, never let it out of your sight, and it will take you."

Piece, of, cake.

HERE WE GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[GeZ]

That was really god damn inspiring.
I'll keep teaching my buds as best I can.
If you can stand flattening me in a slew of matches, I'd love to go toe to toe with you. I've always learned better against people who far outstrip my abilities. I guess participant observation is my preferred learning style.
I'll message you once I've got some more chops and the download.
Cool?

 

[Viceversa96]

Given I use both Mario and Ness, I'll throw in my input of suggestion . You know Ness Players are well rounded for close and far range combat so you have to be on your Ps and Qs for all he does.

First Match: Given Mario is a much better close range character, you have to go in, but under a wall of attack before you can get in. Incorporate mind games like running past the opponent. The confusion will create lapses of thought to your opponent and more openings to attack. Floor Teching: When You get hit by a Dair (on stage), dont worry so much about the damage of fact you were hit, but tech the floor and roll away from Ness, delaying any further combos that may ensue. Both characters are great aerial characters, however all Ness aerials have great knockback in comparison to yours and its wiser to wait for him to come down, or be above him. PK Thunder is easily caped and Uair has a second of activation, giving you time to evade it. Also, proper placement gives the chance for a good Fair. Other than that, solid gameplay (and how do you get that version of Smashville?)

Second Match: You did great the first 3 stocks, but that last stock... you rushed in way too hard. Ness has an attack for every range. As such, rushing in, you're bound to get hit with them. Proper spacing and knowing youre opponents strengths and weaknesses would probably have told you not to do what happened. Now alot of that was just a good combo. On the other hand, Ness threw out a PK Fire every 10 seconds... at some point you have to learn the habits of the players and work around them. You were shielding and caping fine before. Waveshield, or wavedash backwards out of range and slide back forward. Another mind game suggestion: Jump and then Waveland forward. Be precautious with long range players.

Last Match: Spot Dodging is frowned upon for many characters, however Mario is not one of them. What really got you was how Ness has one of, if the strongest back throws in the game, having the eyesight and reaction time to not only see and avoid will save you in crucal moments such as that. Not to mention it creates an opening! You still didnt learn your opponents habits and so you were hit with alot of the same combos or everything had the same end result. Also DI would help alot and more crouch cancelling.

You should learn more of Mario's dynamics and create more strategic approaches. Learn mini combos like Mario's slide to U-Tilt to Uair and whatever attack you deem necesary given the opponents DI. You improved a bit over the last critic because I saw you use the Up-B to walljump as they suggested. Keep Playing!! :D

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Nausicaa]

That was really god damn inspiring.
I'll keep teaching my buds as best I can.
If you can stand flattening me in a slew of matches, I'd love to go toe to toe with you. I've always learned better against people who far outstrip my abilities. I guess participant observation is my preferred learning style.
I'll message you once I've got some more chops and the download.
Cool?

Yeah sure. My pleasure.
Though I won't be playing online, if that's what you meant there. I can observe, and message you videos of specific things/myself playing the match-up (from both ends) if it will be of help.
Otherwise, you're doing fine and are aware enough to takes leaps of stepping-stones forward with nothing but a point. If you're facing in the right direction, just keep on walking.

 

[GeZ]

Yeah sure. My pleasure.
Though I won't be playing online, if that's what you meant there. I can observe, and message you videos of specific things/myself playing the match-up (from both ends) if it will be of help.
Otherwise, you're doing fine and are aware enough to takes leaps of stepping-stones forward with nothing but a point. If you're facing in the right direction, just keep on walking.

I appreciate peer review as much as sparring, so thanks. I'll keep training.

 

[GeZ]

I definitely understand guys, but the whole point in the fireball spam, which he never dodged very well, was all a psychological thing, as you should know. If you can annoy your opponent enough with one tactic that they can't avoid very well, then they will get flustered and play worse, making it easier for you. I fought the same guy from Grand Finals in the winner's bracket prior and eased myself into how he played, learning that I could abuse fireballs as such.

Unfortunately, I don't have as many chances to play on a regular basis to practice more often. Most of my practice consists of me by myself being sure I have most of my tech skill down. I'd definitely try more things out if I got to play more. I should be able to play for the first time since that tournament this Friday at a Smash meet up, but, otherwise, I don't get much chance.

Because this thread has been guttering like a dying candle, and because I wanted to find some vids of some really solid Mario's, I've started going through and watching matches to pitch in any advice I can. To your aforementioned matches, I've got a few questions and comments.

Fireballs. What's the deal? I read your post about you getting to throw them in all opportunities against this opponent because mindgames but it was a poor usage of them in a lot of instances, let alone a poor usage of an opportunity to better understand your opponent. You tossed them out without really looking for your opponents reactions to them, or following them to capitalize. When they did result in an opening, it seemed like it was by happenstance of their approach versus your default strategy, which is to say, you sat there plipping fireballs while your opponent approached, he would accidentally bump in to one, apologize politely to the orb of flame, and then be promptly punched in the face by a surly plummer. It's not necessarily an awful strategy. It put you on top of most of your exchanges, BUT it was predictable, and not optimized. Fireballs are an AMAZING tool. But your use of them seemed so crass. They're a nice way to open your opponent up, needle them, make them swear revenge upon their slightly charred faces. But you just put them out there without gauging the opponents reaction, without following them like your nubile children (so full of potential), without an idea of when it would be considered a bad time to do it (point blank range, with an anvil that reads "10 TONS" plummeting towards Mario's unprotected dome). Use them for what they're useful for. They'll yield MUCH better results.

Playstyle. A lot of things fall into this "category" so it gives me a nice way to tie parts of your game together, and summarize what I think needs work. My main gripe really falls into your playstyle, in that I feel that you play Mario like a pseudo Falcon. From watching your games you seem to weave in and out of your opponents space while pressing against them with powerful moves or combo starters, and making them not know what to expect with fireballs and cape. This isn't what Mario does. Mario is a wall, or fortress, if you will. His intention (gameplan) is to work his way into his opponents space and exist. It seems strange but it's a very basic way of outlining what he wants to do. He can't pressure as well as other characters, or zone, or mixup/ psychout, or anything really. But he fills a position that goes overlooked in most games, and really shines in Project: M, which is the Jack of All Trades. He does a lot of things pretty well, which lets him fill a roll that most characters can't fill by being very reactive, and punishing opponents for all their faults. He wants to push at them, working his way into their space, their livelihood, and then set up camp. So playing optimally, you're weaving in and out of your opponents comfortable space, taking full advantage of all of their mistakes and attempts, while also being present enough to create discomfort that CAUSES mistakes. Be close to them, as much as possible.

Edgeguarding. Is really the last thing I feel I need to mention, and (thankfully) there's not much to mention here. I just felt you were using cape too much, in situations where it did you no good. Mario has much better options for this in most situations, once you account for the capes lag and predictability when spammed. While his offstage game isn't godlike, he still has a pretty good spike (Fair), an amazing swat that sends the opponent away at a wonderful gimping angle (Bair), and the ability to grab the ledge (to gimp). I know that these seem a bit obvious but from watching your matches I didn't see these tools employed in any great quantity, which was alarming to say the least considering they make up a good deal of Mario's kill potential, which is to swat away from the ledge and edgehog thusly.

I hope you consider employing the techniques I've outlined here, as I have faith in their ability to facilitate better play from you. As a last note, I would recommend you turn your attention to Nausicaa's post listed below, as it outlines some of the faults in your reasoning in your above post.

 

[Viceversa96]

I appreciate peer review as much as sparring, so thanks. I'll keep training.

You have to be the very best. Like no one ever was. Oops wrong franchise.

 

[Nausicaa]

A lot of your post (Gez) applies to a LOT of players about a LOT of things.
Blondie, in the Zelda boards, and I had a similar discussion about default-positions and game-plans regarding Death-Kick use, and it's very much the same concept, just totally different in application and on another weird level. (he might enjoy this post as well, maybe he'll name-search like a boss one day)

If someone is getting flustered and playing worse due to psychological reasons, then you shouldn't have to do something that makes you worse TOO when looking to abuse that. There's ALWAYS another way. Ignorant players can be abused by more than a single tactic, it's a pretty universal mental weakness. They don't know how to deal with Fireballs? No. They don't know how to deal with something that makes them have to adapt.
Otherwise, you might as well by psyching yourself out to play worse. There's just no point.
I'll hit my head on this brick wall because it confuses the opponent into doing it too. < example of general strategies people have far too often.
haha
Falco/Wolf/ZSS/Lucas/etc spamming projectiles and N-airs as a default is another common tangible example.
Hurts my soul to see it.

 

[GeZ]

A lot of your post (Gez) applies to a LOT of players about a LOT of things.
Blondie, in the Zelda boards, and I had a similar discussion about default-positions and game-plans regarding Death-Kick use, and it's very much the same concept, just totally different in application and on another weird level. (he might enjoy this post as well, maybe he'll name-search like a boss one day)

If someone is getting flustered and playing worse due to psychological reasons, then you shouldn't have to do something that makes you worse TOO when looking to abuse that. There's ALWAYS another way. Ignorant players can be abused by more than a single tactic, it's a pretty universal mental weakness. They don't know how to deal with Fireballs? No. They don't know how to deal with something that makes them have to adapt.
Otherwise, you might as well by psyching yourself out to play worse. There's just no point.
I'll hit my head on this brick wall because it confuses the opponent into doing it too. < example of general strategies people have far too often.
haha
Falco/Wolf/ZSS/Lucas/etc spamming projectiles and N-airs as a default is another common tangible example.
Hurts my soul to see it.

I get what you're saying, I just felt that this particular player placed well with Mario, so while these are really things you can say to any player to have them improve their game, it might as well go to someone who already has a good basis of ability, so that they can blossom into a better player to better represent Mario.

 

[Nausicaa]

For sure! I was just elaborating/diversifying the comments for others if anything.

 

[jayeldeee]

So I've hopped on Mr. Nintendo's side and hopefully have a crew battle we had on Sunday ready on a video soon, so hopefully I'll be posting that soon. And I'm still new so please, every bit of help would be gladly appreciated.

 

[prybar]

1. MAC- played for 7-8 months, just started going to tourneys

2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wadzZhWxvE4This is the only link i have of my game other than me being way too nervous in a crew battle

3. I think my neutral game is crap, I have a hard time setting myself up into combos, but I think im great at combos when im doing them.

4. Receive honest input from other members of this thread. (PLZ DO<3)

5. Take any advice into consideration and practice what they preach. (WILLDO<3)

6. Provide updates on your improvements and thanks to anyone who helped your game.This is the best part. I WANT TO WIN ALL THE TOURNEYS

 

[GeZ]

Well you've got some bad habits and some good ones, so I'll just state them as I saw them.

You relied too much on dash attack as a combo start, which is easily crouch canceled/ shield grabbed/ etc. You should use the move, but at higher percents, and only every once in a while. You also used too many smashes and not enough tilts in your combos. Mario wants to keep them close until he can kill, so dash attacking into Usmash is a worse idea than say, dash attack into Utilt. You also had some weirdness with your recovery, sometimes getting swatted for passing by the ledge. Mario has good recovery trying to hit the ledge, so you should focus a lot on that.

As for the good, you've got the right mentality with Mario, which is Fireball -> Push Forward -> Combo/ Punish. That's almost always what you want to be doing. Also, grab more. Look for opportunities to use it, as it can set up for combos at low percents and kills at high percents.

If you've got any questions about Mario, I'm maining the little guy in P:M so I've got a good grasp of him, just ask.

 

[MrM]

1. MAC- played for 7-8 months, just started going to tourneys

2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wadzZhWxvE4This is the only link i have of my game other than me being way too nervous in a crew battle

3. I think my neutral game is crap, I have a hard time setting myself up into combos, but I think im great at combos when im doing them.

4. Receive honest input from other members of this thread. (PLZ DO<3)

5. Take any advice into consideration and practice what they preach. (WILLDO<3)

6. Provide updates on your improvements and thanks to anyone who helped your game.This is the best part. I WANT TO WIN ALL THE TOURNEYS

sick your in socal i couldnt make it to this one hopefully my friend and I can make it to the next SSS

as for your gameplay gez pretty much got it all but u def want to set up grabs because mario can combo out of dthrow with ease

goodluck with your mario keep at it!

 

[Nausicaa]

Mario has good recovery trying to hit the ledge, so you should focus a lot on that.

Also, grab more. Look for opportunities to use it, as it can set up for combos at low percents and kills at high percents.

Just some notes.
1) That's called sweet-spotting the ledge.

2) That's the story for every player + character in the game.

 

[GeZ]

The first one was totally a brain fart. I swear the phrase was on the tip of my tongue. And the second one is true. I suppose I almost always end up giving very general advice when talking about characters specifically, though I think in a sense that it's a good thing considering the more familiar one is with the game the more comfortable they are delving into the strategy of the individual characters.

 

[Urielhelix]

"Think of method as a fine silvery stream, not a raging waterfall. It will go meandering here, trickling there. It will find the groves, the cracks, and the crevices. Just follow it, never let it out of your sight, and it will take you."

Piece, of, cake.

HERE WE GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

That is some really good zen mind set. The zen of Project M. I just figured out how to record my matches so hopefully i can upload some tomorrow! I have only been playings since april.

 

[Nausicaa]

Such is life, Urielhelix. Such is life.

HERE WE GOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[lvl 9]

I've been playing Mario for about a month now, and I worry he just not that good. i can beat my brother but that is it. Please take a look and look for improvements.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifQ7EYZK-kw

 

[GeZ]

I've been playing Mario for about a month now, and I worry he just not that good. i can beat my brother but that is it. Please take a look and look for improvements.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifQ7EYZK-kw

The problem isn't the character, but your (and whoever you're playing with) fundamentals. You need to improve your game generally before you can focus on specific characters strengths and weaknesses. I'm usually pretty good at helping with basics but I just got my wisdom teeth pulled so I'm busy having my face hurt like a sunuvabitch and looking like a chipmunk.
Such is life.

Edit: I can't believe I forgot, me and Nausicaa literally filled up this thread with all you need to know about the habits, strategies, tools and tips needed for Mario. Just scan through the thread and read all of his and my giant posts. I know it may seem like a lot but it'll cover most of what you need to know to get started. If you have any questions after that, I'd be happy to answer them.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Ugh, I would love so much to post some of my Mario play so I could get tips, but I don't have a capture card.

 

[GeZ]

Ugh, I would love so much to post some of my Mario play so I could get tips, but I don't have a capture card.

I don't either, but if you voice some of the problems you have I could do my best to help? That's what I usually do, and it works pretty well.

 

[GeZ]

I've actually now got some questions of my own to ask these boards.

Recently I've been playing a lot more Project M with a really solid player, who's actually the developer who figured out the clone engine, which is pretty hype as he's helpful as hell and better than me by leaps and bounds so my learning is really being upped, and among the things he's been using on the to pull me apart, I get caught primarily in two thing.

The first is only a problem I really have with Mario rather than my game in general, and it's getting grabbed when trying to move in with aerials or a grounded assault. He just shields my attack and snags me out of the air or off of the ground. What he recommended was to try to end up behind him with my attacks so that he can't grab me, but I have trouble finding the right moves to pass through him. Sometimes I use Nair to pass through him, or Bair to SH over him and tap him from behind, but overall I get grabbed too much for attacking with Mario.

The other thing is pressure. I melt to it. It's been an issue I've had since I started playing fighting games in general, but it's a problem none the less. Most of what it is is well organized pressure on my shield mixed with grabs. Especially with Mario, I crack before I can counter attack. Any tips on that? I've been trying to incorporate WD OoS which helps a lot but can also get me punished if I use it too much, and it's the only real trick I have to escape pressure besides grabbing OoS or SH Nair OoS.

Thanks in advanced all.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

I don't either, but if you voice some of the problems you have I could do my best to help? That's what I usually do, and it works pretty well.

I'm not really sure what problems I have off the top of my head. I know I'm not a pro and I'm definitely in need of some work when it comes to utilizing wave-dashes offensively. I do pretty well with wave-landing and wave-dashing backwards to defend, as well as doing most things OOS except for wave-dashing, which is still taking some getting used to. I probably don't use Ftilt as often as should, though I do use dtilt and utilt liberally in combos.

 

[GeZ]

I'm not really sure what problems I have off the top of my head. I know I'm not a pro and I'm definitely in need of some work when it comes to utilizing wave-dashes offensively. I do pretty well with wave-landing and wave-dashing backwards to defend, as well as doing most things OOS except for wave-dashing, which is still taking some getting used to. I probably don't use Ftilt as often as should, though I do use dtilt and utilt liberally in combos.

If I could make one recommendation on Utilt and Dtilt, it'd be to be careful with them. They're both handy tools but the more times you use them in a row the more your opponent gets to try to DI out of your combo. That's why whenever I land an Utilt at low to medium percents I got for Usmash right after. Dtilt is a good tool to set up for some kills. At low percents it leads to Ftilt for spacing, or Dsmash for damage, at mid percents it can lead to Fsmash for a big hit and situational kill, and at high percents it can lead to SH Fair for a kill or up angled Fsmash to set up for a kill/ gimp.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

If I could make one recommendation on Utilt and Dtilt, it'd be to be careful with them. They're both handy tools but the more times you use them in a row the more your opponent gets to try to DI out of your combo. That's why whenever I land an Utilt at low to medium percents I got for Usmash right after. Dtilt is a good tool to set up for some kills. At low percents it leads to Ftilt for spacing, or Dsmash for damage, at mid percents it can lead to Fsmash for a big hit and situational kill, and at high percents it can lead to SH Fair for a kill or up angled Fsmash to set up for a kill/ gimp.

Usually when I use them, it's like once and then I move on to something else to take advantage of their DI, but I try to use them at least one time in every grounded combo. The dtilt tends to act like his dthrow for me when I'm not able to follow it up due to high % anymore, popping them up to quickly short hop into a nair or a fair, or an uair to start/continue the combo.

I like to get my friends into points where they expect me to dash attack them, so they start crouch canceling and then quickly do a running dsmash (not sure if there's another term for that) and send them flying at a horrible angle.

 

[Saito]

I've been playing Mario for about a month now, and I worry he just not that good. i can beat my brother but that is it. Please take a look and look for improvements.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifQ7EYZK-kw

My criticism on the matter.

He probably wants some criticism sooner than later.

Should wait till the morning though when all the Mario mains are awake.

--------------------------------

I'm no pro, nor do I consider myself that good but I can do a quick run down of what I think about the match.

You need to work on the timing on those Up B's so that you grab the edge instead of landing on the platform. That leads to punishes as shown in 0:37

Dash attacks are slow and usually punishable. You used a LOT of them in these matches. Try mixing up your approach game with wavedashes. (Try running at your opponent then wavedashing backwards to throw them off!)

4:45 you need to use down B to help you recover or wall jump out of Up-B as well.

You don't make use of short hopping or SHFFLing and those are techniques that are crucial to improving. I would suggest just starting with Short hopping aerial attacks.

Decent amount of L-Cancelling, always work on it a bit more though

You're running into obvious attacks and not reading your opponent well. He is a bit predictable but the attacks still connected.

Use that shield! I noticed you focus a lot on dodging the attacks but trust me, sometimes blocking them is even better since you can follow up with good punishes sometimes.

If I were to rate you, I'd give you an 8/10 on a casual level and a 4/10 on a competitive-casual level.

Don't take all my words for fact though, I hardly know what I'm talking about I think.

----------------------------------------------
Your opponent is at a level where most of your dash attacks will get through. Don't make a habit out of it though. If you fight someone who can punish it, you will get smashed.

Your opponent is also at a level where fireball spam would of worked wonders. Trust me though, you don't want to do that. I mean you will beat him, but he might quit.

Oh, and regarding wavedashing, I found a lovely video that shows you a few tricks. It's in japanese but actions speak louder than words.

---------------
shadow0x0cloud's criticism on the matter.

I'll tell you that you're far above basic. It seems to me your close to reaching an intermediate level of understanding the game. You should start to work on things like ledge options, tech chases, wavedashing, teaching, and l canceling.

In terms of your Mario play, I suggest you spend a little more time with your character just to learn what works and what doesn't. For example many weird combo paths that caused your opponent to escape your pressure. Also Mario's fireball is pretty good, you shouldn't hesitate to space your opponent out with it. There was a lot of fair spamming. Like not even close to your opponent and full jump fair. Some of those situations would be better to have thrown a fireball.

So yeah, you're kinda in between beginner and intermediate, it looks like you know what you should do but your not doing certain things. Also it would probably be better to post in the Mario thread

---------------------

DrinkingFood's criticism on the matter.

Not really, sorry. I saw no kind of neutral game/footsies, basically every chance you got (and your opponent) you just ran in and dash attacked. You need to work on your technical stuff, especially dash dancing and wavelanding/dashing so you have something to apply to your neutral game. The only reasonable thing I saw was that you grasp the concept of combos, something you can't say for the newest players, but even that could be improved with an understanding of SHFFLing and wavelanding you speed up your follow-ups on the opponent.

Of course, if you aren't looking to get good then all that stuff is perfectly fine, you can enjoy the game however you want; but judging by how you two were playing, that's not the case. A nice rule of thumb to improve in smash, if I could give it in just one line, is to always wait for/bait your opponent to make the first move, using projectiles if possible to pester them into doing so. But to do that you'll need to learn good ways to bait the other guy out, so the quickest way to get results will probably be dash dancing in and out of his dash attack range, then running in to grab him when he misses and start a combo.

-------------------
OrangeSodaGuy's criticism on the matter.

As for me, I've been a Mario main since the Melee days.
I'm not a top-level player by any means, but there are some tips and tricks that could really help improve your game:

* As mentioned earlier, learning how to wavedash and shffl (short hop > fast-fall > l-cancelled aerial attacks) are crucial to staying in the game against high-level opponents.

Saito mentioned a great tactic- dash in and wavedash backwards to throw enemies off!
Dash-dancing is also a great way to move unpredictably as well.

* Make use of the cape! I noticed in your first match that there were a few opportunities to edgeguard Bowser with the cape. It also turns foes around completely, so you could use that against a charging opponent to seriously throw them off! (In P:M it actually reverses the foe's controls for a short moment.)

* Grab moar. Up throw can chainthrow fast falling characters like Fox and Falco, and you can also follow it up with up-tilts and shffl'd Up-airs! Down throws can be followed up with D-smash for easy and free damage against most characters as well.

* You can use Mario's down+B tornado to recover (you have to mash the button like crazy). I like to use this before using any of my jumps, especially if I'm pretty far from the edge.

* Mario can also wall-jump out of up-B.
Try to sweetspot (grab the edge with) your Up-B. Landing on the platform can be very laggy and gives enemies the perfect chance to get that killing blow.

* The dash attack leaves you wide open. I wouldn't use that too often if I were you.

* spam hella fireballs (unless you're fighting Game and Watch/Ness/Lucas/Spacies)

* space hella B-airs. This move is way more useful than it looks and has deceptive reach (something Mario really needs because his arms are short )

* Sometimes it pays to be patient. Don't be afraid to wait sometimes, especially against faster opponents. Watch your enemies and go in for the attacks while they're open!

* Watch pro players! You'll pick up plenty of other cool stuff that's not listed here!

Hope this helps!

OrangeSoda

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

The other thing is pressure. I melt to it. It's been an issue I've had since I started playing fighting games in general, but it's a problem none the less. Most of what it is is well organized pressure on my shield mixed with grabs. Especially with Mario, I crack before I can counter attack. Any tips on that? I've been trying to incorporate WD OoS which helps a lot but can also get me punished if I use it too much, and it's the only real trick I have to escape pressure besides grabbing OoS or SH Nair OoS.

Thanks in advanced all.

When you say that you melt to pressure do you mean specifically in execution during the fight or is it more psychological as when you're pushed into a certain place, you feel like there's nothing you can do except give up? I have a friend that has a very hard time against aggression and faster play to the point that he struggles and loses composure, just randomly trying to get away in any manner he's capable. I'd say the best thing to do in this case would be to remind yourself to calm down and just watch what's going on, then calmly go back to playing how you were before you got pushed into pressure.

If this has nothing to do with your problem, I apologize for assuming, but it sounded similarly to my friend.

 

[MrM]

Reading is your friend.
js

 

[Nausicaa]

The problem isn't the character, but your (and whoever you're playing with) fundamentals. You need to improve your game generally before you can focus on specific characters strengths and weaknesses. I'm usually pretty good at helping with basics but I just got my wisdom teeth pulled so I'm busy having my face hurt like a sunuva***** and looking like a chipmunk.
Such is life.

Edit: I can't believe I forgot, me and Nausicaa literally filled up this thread with all you need to know about the habits, strategies, tools and tips needed for Mario. Just scan through the thread and read all of his and my giant posts. I know it may seem like a lot but it'll cover most of what you need to know to get started. If you have any questions after that, I'd be happy to answer them.

We're also parralleling in that your face is broken because of wisdom-teeth johns, and I just about cut off my right-thumb today. :D
Injuries on T-Givels ftw.

+ True dat for all players new here.
Some PM stuff was solid too, sometimes I wish everything was auto-transferred to all who need it. lol

Ugh, I would love so much to post some of my Mario play so I could get tips, but I don't have a capture card.

Words work wonders, but even a crappy camera captures the essence of a match in development.

Good collection in Saito's post, though I didn't watch the matches.

Cracking under happens in many forms. I watched a set last night between Juu and Chu, and it was jumping-into-arpe all day, and was very observable when one of them cracked from it. Such distinct things take many forms. Armada vs Mango at Genesis 1, you could Armada cracked in some way, though not because of his own psychological things so much as Mango finally broke through in adaption-advantage, which is what they both kept working on throughout the sets.

Funny truth... Project: M hasn't cracked for the community playing it yet. At any level of distinction. :D Young game is young.

 

[GeZ]

We're also parralleling in that your face is broken because of wisdom-teeth johns, and I just about cut off my right-thumb today. :D
Injuries on T-Givels ftw.

+ True dat for all players new here.
Some PM stuff was solid too, sometimes I wish everything was auto-transferred to all who need it. lol


Words work wonders, but even a crappy camera captures the essence of a match in development.

Good collection in Saito's post, though I didn't watch the matches.

Cracking under happens in many forms. I watched a set last night between Juu and Chu, and it was jumping-into-arpe all day, and was very observable when one of them cracked from it. Such distinct things take many forms. Armada vs Mango at Genesis 1, you could Armada cracked in some way, though not because of his own psychological things so much as Mango finally broke through in adaption-advantage, which is what they both kept working on throughout the sets.

Funny truth... Project: M hasn't cracked for the community playing it yet. At any level of distinction. :D Young game is young.

Synchronicity at it's finest dawg. Hope your thumb is good, you need that to thrash ass in Smash!

And this game definitely is young. Just playing with great players you find them finding new things all the time. The game is fledgling but wonderfully complex and ready to be explored by all of us Smash Spelunkers.

I was getting back to my Mario today as he's who I'm most solid with and I was getting thrashed with everyone else, and I came across a few inconsistencies in my game that I'd like to get advice on.
The first and foremost is that I get grabbed by people who are shielding way too much. I got advice on that from the guy I play with on fridays, to just land behind them with every attack, but I was wondering if there are other tricks to get around this? My problem is I'll lead with a fireball, and wiz up to my opponent to apply pressure, and then get grabbed. I've been dealing with it by landing behind the person with aerials, and working in less direct movement, and grabs, but I still get grabbed out of my offense more often than I'd like.
Also I have trouble dealing with pressure. When someone really gets rolling on me I'll get slapped around, grabbed, and regrabbed, before I can regain composure and get outa there. I think it's partly to do with Mario's options when he's defending himself, but mostly my personal inability to deal with pressure.

Any help is appreciated. I'll try to get some matches up next time I play.

 

[Nausicaa]

What kind of offense are you talking about? If you're using aerials on Shields and getting punished for it, then it's just a matter of picking your moments, and it should be easy enough to pick out when you shouldn't simply by not doing it ONCE and seeing if it works out for you, then go from there.
I just DD Grab/Shield all day, so offense to me doesn't really 'get' shield-grabbed.

Mario has plenty to defend himself with. Shield > WDOOS/solid hard-hit-boxes everywhere/that jazz.

Oddly, people generally crack under pressure not because of the pressure itself, but their own mental block that stems from an overwhelming sequence that they can't instantly interpret in a way that makes sense.
Confusing sentence aside... Think of it this way. When you get out of hit-stun, you're IMMEDIATELY by DEFAULT, in a Neutral position. Maybe not a raw-neutral like starting a match, but you have the options you would from any other situation of neutral standing/falling. Play as a Neutral then, not a defensive. D-Smash when you get up from a tech, if they get hit, cool, if they DD around it, that's cool too. Then get up and F-Tilt or SH N-Air right at them or Dash away or F-Jump to a platform, whatever you do, do it accordingly to what happened regarding the D-Smash hitting, or whatever. Then keep going.
It's a simple game.
Pressure don exist.
Such is life.

The same goes EVEN MORE SO in regards to offense. You hit someone? You're out of the move-lag? THIS IS A NEUTRAL, however you look at it. Don't try and rush another hit or chase quickly, treat it like a positional advantage. They can act out of what you do EVENTUALLY (with a few Death-Touch exceptions), so play it that way.
Much too much is lost by peeps being hasty. From both sides of Neutral.

 

[BlackDr.Mario]

Ok so I went away for a look long time: working, women, planning to move, etc. and I've been playing PM still (got my 3.0 haha) and if you notice, my Black Doc is back in the mix!!! So after making my Mario a little more solid, I tried Doc and he feels amazing plus he has all those little tidbits that made Mario better like wall jumps, wall jump Up+ B, the extra ranged FSmash, yet still has the added power!

Now I'm still a tad noob because I don't land all my L-Cancels, but aside from my SHFFLing and maybe a slight better wave game, my game is legit. Is there really way I can practice it? Being in Delaware, there aren't many who play here so I have no one to really practice with but like 4 guys who live nearby and only one is on my skill level (and happens to play one of my worst match ups: Sheik). So my only question is how do you all practice and what tips do you reccomend?

 

[deadjames]

Ok so I went away for a look long time: working, women, planning to move, etc. and I've been playing PM still (got my 3.0 haha) and if you notice, my Black Doc is back in the mix!!! So after making my Mario a little more solid, I tried Doc and he feels amazing plus he has all those little tidbits that made Mario better like wall jumps, wall jump Up+ B, the extra ranged FSmash, yet still has the added power!

Now I'm still a tad noob because I don't land all my L-Cancels, but aside from my SHFFLing and maybe a slight better wave game, my game is legit. Is there really way I can practice it? Being in Delaware, there aren't many who play here so I have no one to really practice with but like 4 guys who live nearby and only one is on my skill level (and happens to play one of my worst match ups: Sheik). So my only question is how do you all practice and what tips do you reccomend?

Doc isn't anymore powerful than Mario in P:M the changes are purely aesthetic, the only MU that actually makes a difference for Mario or Doc is Olimar because Mario has fire and Doc has lightning so one will have a harder time against red pikmin and the other will have a harder time against yellow pikmin.

 

[Danny_SsB]

Hi guys I've been playing Project M since version 2.1, i play a lot SSB64 and Melee so I used Mario long time (and Melee Dr. Mario) PM Mario is very good :D

Here are some matches against a friend, i have a little problems with Luigi. I'll be waiting for your suggestions

Set 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6BFKMsE__8
Set 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZGyY7q0s_8