Impa, the Enigmatic Sheikah, Sage of Shadow

[Aetheri]

Toon Zelda would make the most sence out of being a clone from Zelda the most. The Phantom Slash looks like a move designed for Toon Zelda, not so much for Adult Zelda, but I like the creative liberty they took with it. Damn, I really miss the days speculating over the Phantom Slash, and the fate of Sheik, Transform and Impa... It felt like we where so close to victory back then.

Anyway, I would be down for both Toon Zelda and Impa as clones actually. Provided they can make Impa at least interessting as a clone character. I'd still like her as unique, but if she'd get in as clone, she at least is getting in.

Given some of her abilities in Skyward Sword I can see some possibilities for Impa working as a clone of sheik but at the same time, if they were to add her in that way I feel like it would be a bit lazy...though I can see her relating as much as Ganondorf to Falcon with a similar moveset but overall different models without an obvious cut and paste...I see a lot of potential for Impa being her own character within the game though, so who knows what sakurai may have planned if he's considering her...

Edit: I wouldn't want Impa as a clone for two reasons, 1)that would would be 3 Zelda characters in the roster acting as clones or semi-clones as well as making it two characters that are clones of another Zelda character and 2)I prefer unique moveset and modelling over palette swapping...

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yes the Zelda cast is full of clones, and it really sucks. It could really use a big clean up I feel.

Literally all the Zelda characters but Link have their serious issues going on... Either in moveset, playstyle, or in a combination of them.

- Strict low tier character and ever since Brawl a staple bottom tier in the series. Her whole playstyle is full of flaws because she was meant to be balanced in the opposite manner to Sheik's playstyle, who has always been better than her.
- Not only shoe-horned in because she was Zelda's "alter ego" but now she's even her own character for Sakurai knows what reasons. And this isn't nearly as justified as because Sheik doesn't have her own sub-series in Zelda. Far from it actually.
- Still unchanged from his Brawl incaration moveset wise, and based on the least impressive Ganon in the Zelda universe.
- Even though he has his own sub series, his moveset hardly reflects it.

I hope that Impa adds some good freshness to the Zelda series in Smash.

 

[Aetheri]

Yes the Zelda cast is full of clones, and it really sucks. It could really use a big clean up I feel.

Literally all the Zelda characters but Link have their serious issues going on... Either in moveset, playstyle, or in a combination of them.

- Strict low tier character and ever since Brawl a staple bottom tier in the series. Her whole playstyle is full of flaws because she was meant to be balanced in the opposite manner to Sheik's playstyle, who has always been better than her.
- Not only shoe-horned in because she was Zelda's "alter ego" but now she's even her own character for Sakurai knows what reasons. And this isn't nearly as justified as because Sheik doesn't have her own sub-series in Zelda. Far from it actually.
- Still unchanged from his Brawl incaration moveset wise, and based on the least impressive Ganon in the Zelda universe.
- Even though he has his own sub series, his moveset hardly reflects it.

I hope that Impa adds some good freshness to the Zelda series in Smash.

As much as I love Link, who I consider as one of my favourite video game characters of all time (rivaled only by Samus), I find the inclusion of two Links unnecessary (even though Toon Link represents the whole Toon Zeldaverse, which is only really popularized by one game), same is true for two Marios and especially two Pits (if that's the case then why isn't dark link his own character? not that I'd want him but it's pretty much the same situation)...Lucina and Roy at least are actually different characters to Marth...
Without Transformations Sheik's relevance as a character does come into question, sure she has been around since melee but so has other characters that are no longer here (but being high tier character competitively may have something to do with that, even though Sakurai doesn't care for competitive smash as much I know he doesn't want to completely alienate them considering they are a large chunk of the fanbase that has been around since melee) don't get me wrong I enjoy the character one of my better characters as well as arguably one of the best in competition, but compared to other characters that have been left out of the game it makes you wonder....
Zelda has a lot more potential than she has been given, seeing as she has been depicted with a rapier and bow numerous times...sure she was given the phantom knight which is a nod to spirit tracks (not really a notable game in the zelda series) and of course we all are aware of Ganondorf's moveset potential...
No doubt it seems as if Sakurai doesn't really 'try' as hard for the Zelda games, which does seem a little unfair considering all the love Fire Emblem and Kid Icarus have been getting...

 

[Diddy Kong]

My problem is that Sakurai really didn't look past Wind Waker to add new characters into the series... Wind Waker being a game first released in 2003. The best he did afterwards is making the Zelda cast aside from Toon Link in their Twilight Princess designs, which did not influence movesets outside of Link getting the Gale Boomerang, Zelda's Final Smash, Ganondorf's sparta kick, Side B, Final Smash and... um.. sword taunt? Considering that the cast is mostly the same as from Melee still this is really bad representation.

 

[Aetheri]

yeah I don't want to be 'that guy' and say Sakurai hates Zelda, but there is an obvious bias against it...especially considering it's supposed to be one of the big three...

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

yeah I don't want to be 'that guy' and say Sakurai hates Zelda, but there is an obvious bias against it...especially considering it's supposed to be one of the big three...

I don't think it's unfair to say sakurai prefers some series above others, I mean we all do it too. If you say you wouldn't be even slightly biased if you got to make a smash roster and decide the content, I'm sorry but you're lying

 

[Diddy Kong]

yeah I don't want to be 'that guy' and say Sakurai hates Zelda, but there is an obvious bias against it...especially considering it's supposed to be one of the big three...

Am not sure, I think he's just being "Japanese" about Zelda. They don't really seem to like the series much, outside of Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker. I feel like he kept with the Twilight Princess appearances just to please the western fans as well, as Skyward Sword didn't do too great here (which is a damn shame).

 

[Aetheri]

I don't think it's unfair to say sakurai prefers some series above others, I mean we all do it too. If you say you wouldn't be even slightly biased if you got to make a smash roster and decide the content, I'm sorry but you're lying

I know that, I just wish it wasn't as blatantly obvious like it is in smash...

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Personally, it's the contrary: I do think that he managed to stay true to the Zelda serie. Link, Zelda, Ganondorf... All have a playstyle that rely a lot on countering at the right time, and that's exactly the Zelda games gameplay, especially the 3D ones.

The fact is: if we look at the tier list alone, of course we will think that they are bad. Example: "Din's Fire is a garbage move". Of course, in duels, it's not really useful. But when you fire it in a Free-For-All, it suddenly becomes way more interesting.

are characters that are betters in FFA. Especially Ganondorf, where his Melee's trophies stated that he was better there.
It's their design combined to the competitive metagame that make them low tier. I'm far from being an expert, but I'm pretty sure that Ganondorf would be way lower in Melee without L-cancels, for example.
In Zelda's case, it's her needed sweetspots and her "Risk / reward" gameplay that makes her low. Why taking risks when you could hoo-hah?

Of course, there are flaws, like Zelda's F-Smash that is FINALLY fixed, or Ganondorf's lack of projectiles. I do think that Ganondorf as a he his isn't a bad representation, although "suffering" from his clone status from Melee.

 

[Aetheri]

speaking of projectiles for Ganondorf, imagine if we could play the game of 'Dean Man's Volley' in smash with Ganondorf's light energy that seems to be present in almost every zelda game...

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

speaking of projectiles for Ganondorf, imagine if we could play the game of 'Dean Man's Volley' in smash with Ganondorf's light energy that seems to be present in almost every zelda game...

That's the only thing I want from him honestly. He may be skillfull with a sword, his "warlock" gameplay in smash suits him. It can be tweaked more, with even more magic effect.
His jab as a reflector would be a nasty move too.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I think Zelda was more designed for team battles to be honest, but yeah, Link and Ganondorf definitely shine more in FFAs. Same with Ike.

However, it's that their movesets and playstyles aren't just the best representatives of the Zelda series. I make an exception for Link and Zelda, as they do represent Zelda fine, but Toon Link, Ganondorf and Sheik really could use some freshing up. And am actually upset that out of these 3 characters, they choose to revamp Sheik the most...

Sheik, a character that literally only taught you songs in Ocarina of Time gets all kinds of funky new moves and stuff while Toon Link and Ganondorf are mostly untouched from Brawl...

I think Sakurai just doesn't have his priorities right. Or well at least, not where I would put my priorities...

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

That's the only thing I want from him honestly. He may be skillfull with a sword, his "warlock" gameplay in smash suits him. It can be tweaked more, with even more magic effect.
His jab as a reflector would be a nasty move too.

I think that'd only make sense if his jab was changed to a cape swing, same thing just different animation

Also a dark energy teleport like in his entrance animation would be cool and would greatly help his recovery

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

I think Zelda was more designed for team battles to be honest, but yeah, Link and Ganondorf definitely shine more in FFAs. Same with Ike.

However, it's that their movesets and playstyles aren't just the best representatives of the Zelda series. I make an exception for Link and Zelda, as they do represent Zelda fine, but Toon Link, Ganondorf and Sheik really could use some freshing up. And am actually upset that out of these 3 characters, they choose to revamp Sheik the most...

Sheik, a character that literally only taught you songs in Ocarina of Time gets all kinds of funky new moves and stuff while Toon Link and Ganondorf are mostly untouched from Brawl...

I think Sakurai just doesn't have his priorities right. Or well at least, not where I would put my priorities...

The problem with Toon Link is that his moveset IS representative.
For Sheik, they had to make her a new move, and I'm glad that they changed the chain (although using it as a recovery was fun).
For Ganondorf, there's probably some bias as it's said that Ganondorf was his favorite in Brawl.

 

[Diddy Kong]

What I'd like for Ganondorf is a sort of way to change his playstyle around before you select him.

Give him a magical moveset resembling a bit the styles of and a little, but being a lot heavier of course. Deadman's Volley magical attack would be a Neutral B, and to stay true to Warlock Punch a little he gets a strong hitbox in the beginning of his move, where his hand throws away the energy ball. This would make the move also good for close ranged attacks. He can also charge the attack in the air with extra floatiness like does with Thoron. But the move won't get as powerful as a fully charged Thoron however. Down B becomes a teleporting warp attack move similar to 's. Ganondorf also becomes a little lighter, more floatier, and can recover better with this moveset.

Another moveset he could have is one with a weapon, or possible double weapons. Ganondorf stays mostly the same statistically, but his moves get a whole lot of range added to it, but he has a little more lag behind it to balance the range. Down B becomes his walking charge he does with his sword in Twilight Princess which has high priority.

And finally, a moveset where Ganondorf fights with his bare fists as he always did.

 

[Bebe Mignon]

Hey everyone! Please vote for Impa's chance for Smash DLC here:

http://smashboards.com/threads/rate-their-chances-the-dlc-edition-day-8-impa.398604/

Please be fair and try not to skew the results!

 

[sadn3ss]

Even if all we can get is a sheik clone I really think that impa would be a amazing fit for this is installment and the potential for her to be top tier ( because of her affiliation with sheik) makes this dlc process all the more exciting

 

[Arbok9782]

I have been a fan of Impa since Ocarina of Time, but oddly it took Hyrule Warriors to make me a big fan and consider her for Smash Bros. Of the top four characters I want the most in the game (Dixie, King K. Rool, Impa and ANY rep for Advance Wars), I'm putting my voting power behind Impa. This is after seeing the results and noticing how much higher Impa was ranking than I would have ever imagined:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SymqqTNDuZ95EcupUnS8p46ibS_OSyg4wgH7qxREPeY/edit#gid=0

I don't think her chances are great, but my hope is the demand is enough to raise an eyebrow and she gets included for the next Smash Bros.

yeah I don't want to be 'that guy' and say Sakurai hates Zelda, but there is an obvious bias against it...especially considering it's supposed to be one of the big three...

Probably fair to say that Sakurai is more into Mario, Pokémon and Fire Emblem along with the game franchises he worked on (Kirby and Kid Icarus). That said, doesn't Sakurai main Ganondorf? Ganondorf also had a pretty big role in the Subspace in Brawl.

 

[Aetheri]

Probably fair to say that Sakurai is more into Mario, Pokémon and Fire Emblem along with the game franchises he worked on (Kirby and Kid Icarus). That said, doesn't Sakurai main Ganondorf? Ganondorf also had a pretty big role in the Subspace in Brawl.

Well, Ganondorf was one of the few villains in the game and the only other villain that is just as iconic if not more was Bowser, so there's no doubt his role would be pretty prominent especially when the SSE was just a big fanfest of characters Ganondorf and Bowser were pretty much the 'main villains' behind Master Hand and Tabuu...I always thought he's more inclined towards 'cuteness' which could be another reason Toon Link got Sakurai's approval...but if he mains Ganondorf then cool...

 

[PhantomShab]

That said, doesn't Sakurai main Ganondorf?

This is a pretty common misconception. People started spreading this around just because he used Ganondorf against somebody's Lucas (I think it was Lucas) at a Brawl tourney. If he had picked anybody else, people would assume Sakurai mains that character instead. That being said, I highly doubt Sakurai mains a character he clearly cares little for.

Also, I support Impa as long as we don't give her Hyrule Warriors stuff.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I don't get why people wouldn't want Impa in her Hyrule Warriors styled appearance with moveset. I to might slightly prefer the idea of Skyward Sword Impa, but Hyrule Warriors isn't a bad game to base her off either with it's insane moveset potential for Impa. Giant's Knife or Naginata, or better yet, a combination of both styles would be an amazing sight to see. And I don't think it's fair to disregard the game because it's "not canon" or "third party". Smash isn't canon either, and everything Zelda themed is 100% owned by Nintendo... Am not getting the double standard.

 

[Aetheri]

I don't get why people wouldn't want Impa in her Hyrule Warriors styled appearance with moveset. I to might slightly prefer the idea of Skyward Sword Impa, but Hyrule Warriors isn't a bad game to base her off either with it's insane moveset potential for Impa. Giant's Knife or Naginata, or better yet, a combination of both styles would be an amazing sight to see. And I don't think it's fair to disregard the game because it's "not canon" or "third party". Smash isn't canon either, and everything Zelda themed is 100% owned by Nintendo... Am not getting the double standard.

I can see where they are coming from as it isn't official, and outside of Mario, Sakurai doesn't really show an interest in spinoffs...
There's also the possibility that it just isn't their cup o tea....I personally prefer if Impa's Skyward Sword design (revamped of course) was added but I definitely won't be upset if her Hyrule Warriors attire comes into play...

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

I don't get why people wouldn't want Impa in her Hyrule Warriors styled appearance with moveset. I to might slightly prefer the idea of Skyward Sword Impa, but Hyrule Warriors isn't a bad game to base her off either with it's insane moveset potential for Impa. Giant's Knife or Naginata, or better yet, a combination of both styles would be an amazing sight to see. And I don't think it's fair to disregard the game because it's "not canon" or "third party". Smash isn't canon either, and everything Zelda themed is 100% owned by Nintendo... Am not getting the double standard.

It's not canon to Zelda which would annoy me to no end. Of course I'd take Impa in any form but I'd prefer her skyward sword version.

Another reason is the moveset, if she was hyrule warriors based she'd likely use the giant's sword and be a slower character, I'd prefer if she was more magic based like Zelda

 

[sadn3ss]

I honestly think the hyrule warriors impa design would work great considering she had alternate dlc costumes that would work for her pallet just a thought. also to most non zelda fans the hyrule warriors design is the most recognize becuase of the promotion.

 

[PhantomShab]

I don't get why people wouldn't want Impa in her Hyrule Warriors styled appearance with moveset. I to might slightly prefer the idea of Skyward Sword Impa, but Hyrule Warriors isn't a bad game to base her off either with it's insane moveset potential for Impa. Giant's Knife or Naginata, or better yet, a combination of both styles would be an amazing sight to see. And I don't think it's fair to disregard the game because it's "not canon" or "third party". Smash isn't canon either, and everything Zelda themed is 100% owned by Nintendo... Am not getting the double standard.

Smash Bros never uses non-canon spin-off versions of characters, no reason to make Impa an acception.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Smash Bros never uses non-canon spin-off versions of characters, no reason to make Impa an acception.

Are you sure? Am thinking that for example is very much inspired by this game:

Which could very well be canon, but it's definitely a spin-off title.

himself is also a spin-off, and from a separate canon as the other Mario characters.

Hyrule Warriors is basically "fan service the game", and in a way is quite similar to that to a game as Fire Emblem Awakening. It's also very popular, and has had a lot of DLC as well, much like Mario Kart 8, which led to the inclusion of the Koopalings most likely.

Smash itself is not canon so I still don't see the problem myself honestly. However, since I never actually played Hyrule Warriors (I don't own a Wii U, nor 3DS) and began supporting Impa because of Skyward Sword, I think I'll prefer SS Impa to over HW Impa. But both would be really interessting.

Are people here still voting for Impa btw?

 

[PhantomShab]

Never played Bowser's Inside Story, so I have no idea what you could be referring to. That, and I'm sure the Mario RPGs are canon to some extent as well. As for the Koopalings, they were already brought back into relevancy with New Super Mario Bros. Wii, which was made long before Mario Kart 8 was even a thought. MK8 likely had little to no influence on their inclusion as they were already popular.

Not only is Hyrule Warriors a spin-off, it's not even a Zelda game period. It's a Dynasty Warriors game wearing a floppy green hat. Fan-service or not, that's all it really is at the end of the day. I find it pretty disappointing that HW is what makes most people want Impa in Smash, rather than a real Zelda game like Skyward Sword. In this very thread, I even came up with a moveset for Impa using nothing but Ocarina of Time and Skyward Sword for inspiration. Didn't need Hyrule Warriors for a single thing.

You can say Smash itself isn't canon, but that doesn't change the fact that it doesn't pull from non-canon sources for characters. Having Hyrule Warriors Impa is like having AoStH Sonic. Both are versions of the character that are separate from the main canon versions. It's already insulting enough when Sakurai demonstrates how little he cares for Zelda in general, adding in a (technically) Dynasty Warriors character and slapping the Triforce icon on her would just be the cherry on top for me.

I'm not trying to offend anyone who wants that version of Impa in Smash. I'm just speaking how I feel as a Zelda fan.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Does Impa in Hyrule Warriors feel more like a Dynastry Warriors character instead of a Zelda character I would ask? Because if that's the case, I could see that as a problem indeed. However, it looks to me that Impa's style of fighting was carefully chosen to fit her. Wasn't it Iwata himself that commented on her fighting much like a samurai in HW? I seem to recall that.

 

[PhantomShab]

Does Impa in Hyrule Warriors feel more like a Dynastry Warriors character instead of a Zelda character I would ask? Because if that's the case, I could see that as a problem indeed. However, it looks to me that Impa's style of fighting was carefully chosen to fit her. Wasn't it Iwata himself that commented on her fighting much like a samurai in HW? I seem to recall that.

Doesn't sound at all like they chose it to fit Impa. I mean, the Sheikah are ninjas, not samurai.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Doesn't sound at all like they chose it to fit Impa. I mean, the Sheikah are ninjas, not samurai.

It has never been specifically stated they are ninjas. Just the appearances of Ocarina of Time's Sheik, Impa and Skyward Sword's Impa might've led you think this. SS Impa especially isn't exactly as ninja-like as the OOT Sheikahs. It is stated that most Sheikah where warriors fighting for Hyrule's Royal Family however. They might even be related with themes as dark magic if we can imply things from the Shadow Temple...

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Althought it's cool in Hyrule Warriors, I wonder why they decided to choose the biggoron sword (as a Katana). I mean, she may be close to the kakariko Village in OoT, but she doesn't have that much business with the gorons.

 

[Aetheri]

Well in Hyrule Warriors you have Agitha who uses bugs and Zelda uses the Wind Waker as a weapon so there are other things that make less sense...

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Well, Agitha using bugs makes sense. It's herself that doesn't make sense (and THAT'S what makes her awesome).

Zelda's Wind Waker isn't her main weapon. Or else, I would mention the Naginata, that seems more suited for Impa IMO.

 

[Diddy Kong]

The Naginata is awesome, and I think I'd prefer it over the Biggoron Sword as well. A spear-based weapon would most likely make Impa a much more interessting character to the people who never knew about her. It'd give her the appeal characters as the Fire Emblem characters in a sence.

However, with the speculation of there only being 2 Ballot characters, how high would the chances be for Impa? King K.Rool seems like a certain choice, and I'd be more than estatic for his inclusion. The second big name is Isaac, another character I really support.

However, if Roy is indeed coming back, I think they might add some more clones or semi-clones down the line to keep adding characters as DLC options. The natural choices for these additions to me would seem characters as Dixie Kong and Impa.

I am looking forward to see what the future will hold for Smash's DLC. Am thinking that with continous support Impa can make the roster finally. I think I might actually get into writing a whole moveset for her. Am starting with Skyward Sword Impa, and might do other versions of Impa down the line.

I hope this could also help making Impa more interessting to other people, and it would help gain support for her.

 

[sadn3ss]

I've been voting everyday and i urge everyone who wants impa in this game to do so as well

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

The Naginata is awesome, and I think I'd prefer it over the Biggoron Sword as well. A spear-based weapon would most likely make Impa a much more interessting character to the people who never knew about her. It'd give her the appeal characters as the Fire Emblem characters in a sence.

However, with the speculation of there only being 2 Ballot characters, how high would the chances be for Impa? King K.Rool seems like a certain choice, and I'd be more than estatic for his inclusion. The second big name is Isaac, another character I really support.

However, if Roy is indeed coming back, I think they might add some more clones or semi-clones down the line to keep adding characters as DLC options. The natural choices for these additions to me would seem characters as Dixie Kong and Impa.

I am looking forward to see what the future will hold for Smash's DLC. Am thinking that with continous support Impa can make the roster finally. I think I might actually get into writing a whole moveset for her. Am starting with Skyward Sword Impa, and might do other versions of Impa down the line.

I hope this could also help making Impa more interessting to other people, and it would help gain support for her.

No, No, No. There's no way we're just getting 2 ballot characters if Roy and Ryu are getting in

 

[Diddy Kong]

No, No, No. There's no way we're just getting 2 ballot characters if Roy and Ryu are getting in

Am thinking they are adding Roy because of Japanese support, and he's found wanted by the West as well. Plus, a clone or semi-clone wouldn't take too much development time as say, Mewtwo. Ryu might be the 'new Snake' in a way, and he probably is just an extra Sakurai felt like giving us.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Am thinking they are adding Roy because of Japanese support, and he's found wanted by the West as well. Plus, a clone or semi-clone wouldn't take too much development time as say, Mewtwo. Ryu might be the 'new Snake' in a way, and he probably is just an extra Sakurai felt like giving us.

Still, sakurai claimed that making Smash DLC was all about making fans happy, just adding 2 from the ballot kinda goes against that

 

[sadn3ss]

Im really hoping that we arent getting roy tbh, I feel like hes so unnessary and I think that smash needs newcommers from dlc because we already got 2 old charecters and the chance for wolf is pretty high with starfox comming out. I mean I dont know one person who likes having clones and having 2 clones would be too much for me.

 

[Aetheri]

Im really hoping that we arent getting roy tbh, I feel like hes so unnessary and I think that smash needs newcommers from dlc because we already got 2 old charecters and the chance for wolf is pretty high with starfox comming out. I mean I dont know one person who likes having clones and having 2 clones would be too much for me.

I feel like DLC at this point is simply for the sake of getting in characters in that weren't quite ready to be added during the game's release...Mewtwo was always a last minute thing and in melee Sakurai made the extra effort to get him in, whereas in Brawl Sakurai already delayed the game to add Sonic, but Mewtwo still couldn't quite get in because another delay would've been a bit much and probably quite costly...now with DLC, Sakurai can take his time making more characters as well as adding veterans who didn't quite make the initial cut...
As for Roy (me personally I wouldn't mind getting him back as he was my number 3 in melee) I feel like he'll get the Ganondorf/Falco treatment where he may end up getting upgraded to semi-clone status. Sure, Dr. Mario is relatively unchanged from melee, but he is not paid DLC like Roy will most likely be, and he is also the only Mario clone, Mewtwo didn't really need to be changed because he isn't a clone (though people like to compare him to Lucario for some strange reason)...whereas Roy if unchanged would make two Marth clones...He was leaked with Ryu who is a newcomer so it is likely they may not just port him over and they may very well upgrade his moveset (perhaps even give him his Awakening design as well)...