I'm tired of all this uh king bull****

[BarDulL]

Nah, that's not a good use of lurking. All you're doing is delaying the inevitable. By decisively lurking so the other, scummier guy gets lynched over you, you're not doing anything to help your slot. Those suspicions on you aren't going away and, chances are, people will call your **** harder once they figure out you're lurking. It's not benefiting your alignment, trust me.

You're actually helping Town by keeping your slot alive for starters. But also, a scummier slot flipping COULD potentially make your slot seem more Townie (especially if that slot was pushing against you, for instance.) It just depends on the situation.

Also, your slot could be a PR and maybe you don't want to out your role just yet (i.e. Cop, Doc) so you lurk to avoid pressure/drop suspicion.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

And if the person getting lynched in your place flips town? Good job, you just let someone get lynched because you were too busy valuing your own towniness over discovering someone else's scumminess.

And I've never been a proponent of the whole "lurk while you have a PR thing." Scum notice that ****.

 

[BarDulL]

That's true, it's a risky business. Ideally you'd want to keep both players alive, but losing both would be balls.

I'm typically of the mentality that lurking, suspicious slots don't need to die when I'm scum since those same slots are bound to get lynched in the grand scheme of things, but that's completely subjective and relative to the play at hand.

I have a REALLY good example that fits my argument well, but I'm now allowed to use it right now . I'll bring it back up later.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I'll agree it's situational but the situations that actually call for it are very few and far between.

 

[Swiss]

WL is correct.

Bardull I know what you mean, but on that example you simply delay your death - or swap the lynch order around - which could be marginally useful but if an active town slot is lynched over your inactive town slot..what then?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Seeing as the people who I trust to recognize such situations won't listen to any advice ever, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with making an absolute statement.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

imo err1 play like Omni

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

imo err1 play like Gorf

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Either way my scumradar would be on a constant high.

Improve playstyles plz.

"dnt hrt me" "ok u r my evryfing bby". liek if u h8 ppl dat r meen

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Spoiler

Also note that a town that really is concerned about lurkers has more versatility in dealing with them than just a miss lynch. With respect to Ryker mafia, I didn't think that what TAWNN did during RVS in the beginning was scummy enough for me to feel confident that he was scum or even worth a lynch. What I did think was that TAWNN would be a fast read and that he was active at the moment, so it was worth driving that slot for all I could cash it in for D1. Also no one was focusing on pressuring TAWNN, instead everyone was getting involved in the Soup/Swiss/Spidermang argument which I thought was a waste of time since the three parties were already active enough to draw out information from each other without needing more fuel from the peanut gallery.

After finishing up TAWNN, I was then planning to dig into GLG/dabuz slots, but I ended up getting too busy and replacing out. Also tackling GLG/dabuz at the same time as TAWNN, would stunt the "genuineness" in my TAWNN fos as the slot wouldn't feel as pressured if they were lumped with other players in my personal opinion. I was hoping that someone else would see that I was tackling TAWNN and would attempt to "cover" GLG/dabuz to pimp them out for information in order to flesh out my reads more accurately.

The main reason why I hate lurkers is because I don't want to ever lose a game because town failed to put enough information on the table to make heads or tails of the events as a whole. The effect is similar to putting together a really tough jig-saw puzzle and knowing that the finished picture still has tons of missing pieces. Once "sufficient" information has been put out, a discerning eye really helps in determining what information is pertinent and what else can be considered excessive. It is impossible to probably exactly know when sufficient information has come in to peg the entire scum team or if it will ever come in for it to be of use which is why a traditional style of scum-hunting involves both digging and discerning.

Tbh, I would be upset either way if town had a boat load of information, but was too lazy to assess the game and threw away everything in end-game or if town tried to over-assess on every little thing and therefore failed to generate reasonable content to base rational town/scum tells on.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Holy **** that's a perfect response. Kudos.

 

[ranmaru]

Hey I tried re-reading yet I got the wrong idea about you, sorry for doubting you bro.

 

[Omni]

Hence why I'm always pushing to kill inactives D1/D2 @ Point 4.

Everything else is sensible, alas, it's also the reason why I stopped playing Mafia.

- Inactivity, inactivity, inactivity. Which then turns into 5 replacements before D2 and suddenly trails become cold.
- Ad hominems galore.
- Suddenly it's become cool to be a total **** and act like you're God's greatest gift to Mafia.

 

[ranmaru]

I actually don't get ad hominems. What are those again?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

There are no ad hominems, there are insults.

An ad hominem is when an insult is an argument. These games just include insults.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I haven't seen an insult itself become an argument but I've damn well heard the "you're bad at mafia" defense a few times recently.

 

[Omni]

The insults tie in with ad hominems.

What ends up happening is that people start attacking the actual person in an attempt to take credibility out of their arguments or to instill credibility in their own statements. Thus the insults themselves become ad hominems.

It's becoming more and more common from what I've noticed.

Mind you, I enjoy a healthy back-and-forth. But only if it's a battle of logic. People who tend to lean on ad hominems and insults are normally squirming scum or pressured townies.

Or just jerks.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Most ad hominems have some pertinence though. For example, I don't see comments like, "Don't listen to Red Ryu's foses, he's a fur fanatic which shows you how rational his sense of discernment is when it comes to evaluating things." I do see, "Don't listen to Red Ryu, he thought that J was town in FF IX mafia when she was leading a bw against him." More often than not, most ad hominems I've seen are meta related and meta is something that is important in judging the slot for the type of play that it is dishing out. It shouldn't be the only factor that drives you to lynch someone, but it does have realistic pertinence and bringing that to the attention of town can be crucial, even if it is done in an unsavory manner.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

That is an argument. "Your accusations are invalid because your skill is subpar."
Not an insult per se but a legitimate negative remark based on results/opinion.

Also, insults are perfectly legitimate in a mafia game. When pressured I first insult and try to discredit the accusation using those before actually responding, and it has saved me some hassle a great amount of times as both town and scum.


double ninja all the way across this thread

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

double ninja all the way across this thread

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Most ad hominems have some pertinence though. For example, I don't see comments like, "Don't listen to Red Ryu's foses, he's a fur fanatic which shows you how rational his sense of discernment is when it comes to evaluating things." I do see, "Don't listen to Red Ryu, he thought that J was town in FF IX mafia when she was leading a bw against him." More often than not, most ad hominems I've seen are meta related and meta is something that is important in judging the slot for the type of play that it is dishing out. It shouldn't be the only factor that drives you to lynch someone, but it does have realistic pertinence and bringing that to the attention of town can be crucial, even if it is done in an unsavory manner.

Acrostic did I ever tell ya I love your posts.

:3

~

I will take full blame for inactivity, that is my fault for letting that happen in games Zen is talking about.

 

[Ramen King]

It seems more logical to state that your major concern is that lurking is the problem and to list the four points you made as sub-topics that contribute to why people lurk in games.

No it doesn't. I made it that way intentionally.

 

[th3kuzinator]

imo err1 play like Gorf

this .

 

[Ramen King]

Koozziiieieeieieieoee :D

 

[Swiss]

The insults tie in with ad hominems.

What ends up happening is that people start attacking the actual person in an attempt to take credibility out of their arguments or to instill credibility in their own statements. Thus the insults themselves become ad hominems.

It's becoming more and more common from what I've noticed.

Mind you, I enjoy a healthy back-and-forth. But only if it's a battle of logic. People who tend to lean on ad hominems and insults are normally squirming scum or pressured townies.

Or just jerks.

Yeah but some people are BAD. Plus is it an insult if its true?

 

[KevinM]

I try and not insult a person's perceived skill in mafia unless they're blatantly town and just being stubborn about a read of theirs.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'm tired of bad players trying to make themselves look special by faking vig or some other power role they don't have. If you need attention that badly you should probably look somewhere else. You're not suddenly becoming a good player or somebody 'important' because you pretend to be a vig or something.

 

[Gova]

They also don't get better if everyone ignores them in game.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

*smh*

 

[Omni]

They also don't get better if everyone ignores them in game.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Is that, like, Spongebob with no holes or somethin?

 

[Marshmellowman]

*smh*

lmao

ghebby/omni u so correct y :D?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I haven't seen an insult itself become an argument but I've damn well heard the "you're bad at mafia" defense a few times recently.

Are people seriously taking this kind of defense as any form of legit?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Yes, if brought well and mixed with some other insults, it comes a long end.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Thats incredibly ********.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Expecting logic to be equal or stronger thanemotions and feelings is ********.
Pathos ethos > logos



I often insult an attack on me before replying, and the reply itself might even be full of insults. This works and helps as either alignment. Calling something ******** often makes people see it as ********. See also: illusion of truth, say something often enough and someone will be implied to see it as truth. Our brains are easily played with. Overal insulting attacks is strong.


Ugh posting from phoan so unstructured

 

[#HBC | J]

Still using insults is just poor sport especially when they sometimes get personal. Though lately it hasn't really been a problem so that's a good thing. However:

Hence why I'm always pushing to kill inactives D1/D2 @ Point 4.

Everything else is sensible, alas, it's also the reason why I stopped playing Mafia.

- Inactivity, inactivity, inactivity. Which then turns into 5 replacements before D2 and suddenly trails become cold.
- Ad hominems galore.
- Suddenly it's become cool to be a total **** and act like you're God's greatest gift to Mafia.

The insults tie in with ad hominems.

What ends up happening is that people start attacking the actual person in an attempt to take credibility out of their arguments or to instill credibility in their own statements. Thus the insults themselves become ad hominems.

It's becoming more and more common from what I've noticed.

Mind you, I enjoy a healthy back-and-forth. But only if it's a battle of logic. People who tend to lean on ad hominems and insults are normally squirming scum or pressured townies.

Or just jerks.

This is exactly what I had felt and which is one of the big reasons I decided to take a break from mafia because of the fact that it was becoming more common and the like. The three bullets Omni said held truth to the past of DGames a bit and the remnants are still around a tad in today's DGames but its not as present.

Why insult someone? I honestly don't get the logic of it all besides just being a ****. I don't mean the logic of "I'm doing it so I can appear as a threat, or get reads, or gain thread control." because honestly there are much better ways to go about it and people don't have to be a jerks.

I guess I just have a different train of thought on things then some. ;P Anyways, just my two cents.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

J, have you've like, ever gotten into a fight with someone in life? o_o

 

[#HBC | J]

Depends what you classify as "fight".

If you are talking about like "drama" fights where people are just turn into caddy little *****es, then a few under my belt, yup.

I just try and learn from them. ;P