deadjames
Smash Lord
Here's the stream from a tourney I went to yesterday: http://www.twitch.tv/legendoflux/b/511453058 My match starts at 1:53:53. I welcome any constructive criticism.
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"I'm an earthquake in a can!" - Bowser video thread
- Thread starter Ace55
- Start date
Jacob29
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2013
- Messages
- 530
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY83ds605dI&list=UUK7tziygxPktXMbHpY5OnSQ
Some games vs G&W. Got rekt first game.
Any CC plz
Some games vs G&W. Got rekt first game.
Any CC plz
deadjames
Smash Lord
Here's some Bowser dittos of me and Strong Bad and then him bopping me with Snake: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FdPFQW6HQY
Constructive criticism is welcome.
Constructive criticism is welcome.
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyvzfTMaXKo
Games 2 and 3 I use Bowser vs. CT|Hungrybox's Mario.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6tBZc7PFi8
Games 2 and 3 I use Bowser vs. CT|Wizzrobe's Sonic. Help...?
Games 2 and 3 I use Bowser vs. CT|Hungrybox's Mario.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6tBZc7PFi8
Games 2 and 3 I use Bowser vs. CT|Wizzrobe's Sonic. Help...?
deadjames
Smash Lord
Biggest thing I noticed against Wizzy is that you let him bait you into way too many bad situations. It seemed like you were getting too impatient in neutral, make Sonic come to you, your tilts can shut down pretty much any of his approach options. Also try to be a little more conservative with your use of Bowser Bomb and dash attack.
Jacob29
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2013
- Messages
- 530
heh you very nearly SD'd just before you took Mario's 2nd stock on Warioware. If you go off the edge on the very last frame (or close to it) of Up-B you go helpless and die.
Seems vNice though still.. can I ask why you, what I assume, try to momentum cancel? I thought it was removed from PM?
also I assume the change to Wario was because of ZSS?
Seems vNice though still.. can I ask why you, what I assume, try to momentum cancel? I thought it was removed from PM?
also I assume the change to Wario was because of ZSS?
SmashAmass
Smash Journeyman
As a Bowser main, here's what I noticed:
*You were too reliant on Up-B OoS, try using Nair OoS or Fair OoS or Grab to punish. If you use Up-B, it's predictable and you can be punished for it, and even if it's not direct, it almost always puts you in a poor position if it misses.
*Try using less Side-B, it's punishable and often times only works between specific percentages for either kill or combo ability. On floaties, focus more on regular grabs, dash dancing, and well-spaced Fairs. Mewtwo doesn't have many options horizontally besides shadow ball to cover your big meaty Fair hitbox.
*Only use Up-B right when you're about to fall off the edge, not when you're heading towards the edge. The chances to SD are much slimmer and it's quicker and safer.
*Make sure to time your platform falling properly, so you can get those auto cancel frames on the Up-B and bait your opponent to approach and punish.
*Speaking of baiting, you did none of that! Mewtwo doesn't have to approach, but if you don't either, he's forced to. Mewtwo doesn't have a fantastic approach game and two passive characters in a MU, one's going to have to approach. If you stay passive and force your opponent to approach, instead of throwing out moves willy nilly, they will most certainly screw up.
*Try using more Down-B Cancel to follow up on maybe an up throw or bait them to move higher with their recovery to sweet spot fair or bair.
*Use more Nair, the armor frames can take a beating and it's a great pressure option against M2.
*You used Fair as an approach tool far too often, as he caught your habits quick. Stay fresh and unpredictable!
*Don't use Down-B so much on ledges, you have so many more options at that height above the stage, keep on baiting!
*Try using your ledge-jump, it auto-cancels as early as frame 5 or later I believe. You can ledge jump with invincibility, wavedash onto the platforms or aerial counter. It's a fantastic option rather than just getup attack, which more often than not puts you in a bad spot (like Up-B, rewarding when connects but very risky when used unwisely).
Otherwise, I thought you were pretty solid! Some creative stuff you did there with the Ftilts and jab resets, I liked your mobility, essential to such a big target. Also your reads were fairly good too! Keep working on it man, I'm liking what I see!
Well, I didn't die, so I guess it all worked out.
I like pressing buttons. You can't momentum cancel with an aerial in Project M.
The change to Wario was because of ZSS, yes. It feels like a pretty bad matchup to me.
Chesstiger2612
Smash Lord
Yes it is. They are far weaker though because of more hitstun. Bowsers fair is a pretty good momentum cancel.
Chaos_Blasta
Smash Journeyman
Momentum Cancelling is no longer a thing, at all.
Also, finally some tourney matches:
LF: Vs Jonas (Sheik) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5cWaScs3j0
GF: Vs Misa (Captain Falcon) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQjyaK002HI
Critics and opinions most welcome.
Also, finally some tourney matches:
LF: Vs Jonas (Sheik) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5cWaScs3j0
GF: Vs Misa (Captain Falcon) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQjyaK002HI
Critics and opinions most welcome.
Mr. Bones
Smash Journeyman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1zB9uNq2fQ
So I'm unhappy with my sloppy performance against Marth. I won my 2 dollars, but I wanted to 3-0 him. What sort of CC can you guys offer?
I know I tried approaching with Dash attack too much and charged a lot of unsafe silly smashes.
What are some of my offensive options against a Marth other than waiting for him to swing and punishing?
Also, what are some of the things I'm doing right for this match-up that I should work on? Thanks.
So I'm unhappy with my sloppy performance against Marth. I won my 2 dollars, but I wanted to 3-0 him. What sort of CC can you guys offer?
I know I tried approaching with Dash attack too much and charged a lot of unsafe silly smashes.
What are some of my offensive options against a Marth other than waiting for him to swing and punishing?
Also, what are some of the things I'm doing right for this match-up that I should work on? Thanks.
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SmashAmass
Smash Journeyman
Ok well I see how you didn't understand the matchup, so I'll tell you what you did right and what you could have done:
+You spaced your Fairs correctly! It's a great option to punish marth since he's a floaty, and it beats out his sword's spacing a good portion of the time
+Seems like you discovered the beauty of Up-B auto-cancel to Down Smash, good on ya! It's really helpful
+You used Up-B to punish on shield when you should have, it was very clean
-TOO MANY FLAME CANCELS! Flame Cancelling is not a possible punish tool, it's used to throw your opponent off guard or for edge guarding. You can't just throw it around, it technically has a startup as long as a jump with a lot of end lag to boot. If you just keep using it over and over, your opponent can prepare himself to punish, even if you weren't punished the 1st time.
-Try learning some more necessary tech like Ledge Cancelling, Down-B to Ledge, LedgeJump Cancels, Up-B Ledgegrab, etc. Bowser has a lot of specific technology only he can use, and there should be sub-forums on this character stating that.
-Have you thought about using Bair as an option? Bair's hitbox is nice and meaty, slightly disjointed, and has a downwards angle. It's really effective against Marth's Recovery, maybe you could use it to block out approaches or edge guard?
-Try mixing up your options, you were always full jumping, approach, full jump, firebreath, full jump, rinse and repeat. Again, stop using Firebreath Cancel to cover your approach options, it's punishable and doesn't have a good reward for that purpose.
-You didn't use Side-B at all! It's a very effective tool, even aerial approach Side-B can be good. Try going in the lab for a bit and experiment with that
-Opt for more Down-B Jump Cancel, it sets up for a lot of good things and is a great combo tool. It really only has the disadvantage of mis-timing it or missing the jump window all together. Practice with that.
-don't stand there waiting to be hit whenever marth is above you! You have mobility options, Up-Tilt is good for combo follow-ups and hard reads, but shouldn't be your primary option against your airborne opponent, bowser is good in the air too.
-Actually, you didn't use dash dance enough! most of the time you were just hopping around like a bunny, which isn't the best to do with a character 2x the size of most other characters.
-Don't use dash attack to tech chase, you have a ton of other options to follow up that are far more rewarding.
-Try going for jab resets more, you'll find it has a great amount of range and is awesome for setting up combos
As for marth specifically, just avoid being grabbed. Fakeouts, dash dancing, wavedashing, and some aerial shenanigans should suffice. you have tools to outspace him, so force him to approach and punish his aerials, since he will most likely use those besides grab to approach. Hopefully you'll find some use for this info, if you're wondering who I am I'm Amass, I am probably the best Bowser in SoCal, close to getting top 10 in local brackets. Keep working on it man!
Mr. Bones
Smash Journeyman
Friendlies:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvfuXdsqD2E Fat Bones(Fatality-Falcon + Mr. Bones Bowser) vs. BunnE and Sauce (R.O.B and everyone except Pichu)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiPU9QTtu_A Mr. Bones vs. Shoto (Diddy, Falco)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdUk1dvjl0w Mr. Bones vs. Scatz (Mario, Fox, Yoshi, Falco)
I know I tried a lot of Down-B from high up, which was silly. But I've improved since the money match(these are a week after the Marth matches)
Also, since these were friendlies, Smashville matches often involved me popping the balloon instead of edgeguarding when I could. =P
Also, Amass, will you have any videos soon? The best Georgia Bowser would like to see what the best SoCal Bowser can do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvfuXdsqD2E Fat Bones(Fatality-Falcon + Mr. Bones Bowser) vs. BunnE and Sauce (R.O.B and everyone except Pichu)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiPU9QTtu_A Mr. Bones vs. Shoto (Diddy, Falco)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdUk1dvjl0w Mr. Bones vs. Scatz (Mario, Fox, Yoshi, Falco)
I know I tried a lot of Down-B from high up, which was silly. But I've improved since the money match(these are a week after the Marth matches)
Also, since these were friendlies, Smashville matches often involved me popping the balloon instead of edgeguarding when I could. =P
Also, Amass, will you have any videos soon? The best Georgia Bowser would like to see what the best SoCal Bowser can do.
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SmashAmass
Smash Journeyman
I hope to get onto stream soon, but I can't guarantee when. I'll post it here as soon as I can
![Эикельманн [РУС]](/data/avatars/l/153/153661.jpg?1415225120){kind=avatar}
Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
plz critique my terrible p:m koopa. tired of being bad at this game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzdDLg1LCys
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JcfmemxKnk
http://youtu.be/XRasnyhVKDE?t=6m31s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzdDLg1LCys
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JcfmemxKnk
http://youtu.be/XRasnyhVKDE?t=6m31s
Crezyte
Smash Apprentice
Took a quick peek. Number one thing I noticed is that you don't abuse the Koopa Krouch. Bowsers armor from CCing is godlike it wouldve hurt the MK a lot. Also, don't be hesitant to go for janky super armor moves like koopa claw and dash attack if they are in the spacing for it ZSS has a problem when you get in her space because of this (from what I've seen of Kirks bowser anyway). There were also times where you edge guarded with get up attack. IMO get up attack is bad in PM is, in general, a bad option against the brawl characters.
For all it's worth, I think ZSS just ****s on Bowser. That said, you can CC paralyzer shots, so if you're not dash(danc)ing, you should be holding Down, IMO.
Some of PM Bowser's greatest advantages over Melee Bowser come from improved hitboxes. F-Tilt and B-Air have great range that can catch people off-guard very well. Crawl armor and the ability to choose whether or not to do the second swing makes D-Tilt a much better poke. N-Air's speed up, armor, and increased power makes it a great option to try and trade with. Jab1 has great range and combos into grabs. Dash grab has even better range. I'm sure you're no stranger to having to make hard reads to make something happen, and Bowser's tools make it safer and more rewarding to do that in PM.
Bowser's good edgeguarding options seem to be overlooked. Up-B is incredible against characters with linear recoveries if you know how to time it well, and you can just react to them. If they try to deviate (like Ganon using Forward-B), you can just hit him with down-angled F-Tilt, run off -> double-jump F-Air, crawl armor -> D-Tilt, etc. They work in tandem with the super-powerful Down-B to make people take loads of damage when they're off-stage. You should try to take advantage of this whenever possible.
For edgeguarding tethers, you should know that doing a ledge jump (pressing Jump while still on the ledge) has improved IASA across the cast, and Bowser's under-100% ledge jump is far and away the best in the game: He can attack as early as FRAME 4 of his Ledge Jump. As such, every forced tether hop should be getting punished by ledge jump -> aerial on reaction.
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Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
F-Air will probably hit no matter what (keep in mind that it has a tipper hitbox that is especially powerful now). Since they can steer the ledge jump, if they try to get sneaky and hold Away from the stage, you can can B-Air them into oblivion, though F-Air is probably the most reliable and would hit them either way.
When Bowser (and only Bowser) is crawling or just crouching, he gets light knockback armor. This means that if an attack that hits Bowser doesn't cause enough knockback, Bowser takes zero knockback. If it goes past a certain threshold, the light knockback armor doesn't affect knockback at all, so it's kind of an all-or-nothing dealie. Think of Yoshi's double-jump, except that if the armor is broken, he takes norma/full knockback.
This is great for dealing with weak attacks (as well as stronger attacks at low percents) and projectiles.
deadjames
Smash Lord
Here's a video of my rusty Bowser from my last tourney. I only went Bowser in game 2, critique is welcome, I need to shake off the rust for an upcoming regional. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Susg87uSf3I
CPU?
Smash Apprentice
Your Bowser seemed pretty fine. The few things I've noticed is you let Mario fall to the ground without him putting much work in. U-tilt pretty much beats every move in the game when timed properly, so you need to be trying as harder to not let a character reach the ground. Another thing was I felt you played too aggressively. a lot of attacks on Mario were f-airs and you got punished for it. Try staying on the ground a little more and abuse your d-tilt and f-tilt.
Here's my most recent match on NetPlay: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixQv6Utx8Ug Last two rounds are great :D
I'd say i'm kinda all over the place in this set. Otherwise not TOO bad.
I'd say i'm kinda all over the place in this set. Otherwise not TOO bad.
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Does it really do that?
CPU?
Smash Apprentice
I was referring to aerial moves coming down onto Bowser. It beats moves like Link's down air easily.
C2w
Smash Rookie
Is the first post going to be updated with new videos?
Mr. Bones
Smash Journeyman
OnFullTilt
Smash Apprentice
Anyone want to critique my Bowser?
Vs. Charizard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqVJJBmr34E#t=00h05m00s
Vs. Marth https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWwtmUuhGcw#t=00h05m08s
Vs. Charizard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqVJJBmr34E#t=00h05m00s
Vs. Marth https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWwtmUuhGcw#t=00h05m08s
The few things that I noticed could be better is your platform game and Fortress Hogging. Bowser's jump is bad, but his general airdodging speed is fine which in turn makes wavelanding useful for Bowser as much as anyone else. A place like Dreamland with a third platform gives you room to breathe and can help you avoid extra punishment. You stayed on the ground against Cfal most of the time though. Also, Bowser Bomb can be a very safe move to grab ledge, or a very unsafe move to grab ledge. Either way, Fortress Hogging is always a faster way to grab ledge which could have gotten you a stock in some of those situations. It sucks to lose a stock by missing, but it's so key that you should practice so you can keep it on tap.
Jacob29
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2013
- Messages
- 530
You need to edgehog marth more.
OnFullTilt
Smash Apprentice
Ok, thanks, my bowser is pretty new, so I don't have edgeguarding down. Do you mainly use dtilt for that?
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OnFullTilt
Smash Apprentice
Oh, righty-o. I think I need to figure out how to fortress hog. I'll work on edgeguarding Marth in general- thanks!
Jacob29
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2013
- Messages
- 530
http://www.twitch.tv/cushions29/b/552579413?t=1h14m
Critique away!
I get wrecked near the start but get into my groove towards the end of playing Bowser.
Critique away!
I get wrecked near the start but get into my groove towards the end of playing Bowser.
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Where are your nooches?? Sure, it has little range(relative since Bowser is still massive), but it's Bowser's only aerial with red armor which is HUGE in my book. Some of your whiffed superjump Fairs could have been complimented with a Nair while landing. Since Bowser ends up so close to the ground, the red armor+Lcancel can really cover your assbutt sometimes, and this can be followed by Crouch Cancel if need be. Plus it's a decent tech-chase option at times. Also, i'd suggest learning some more ledge tricks such as the ones I posted in the General Discussion so you're not always dropping down, sacrificing your midair jump while trying to stay safe at the ledge. Some of those Flame Breaths from ledge could have easily been grabs if you knew how to insta-waveland(?). I gotta say, that Lucas match on WarioWare had a particularly nice SDI against his offstage Dair. SLICK. Also LOLOLOL at ragequitting Lucas on PS2!!!
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Jacob29
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2013
- Messages
- 530
Alright cheers man, I always felt like I didnt add enough Nair into my game but I never really knew where to put it
Yeah the ragequit was pretty funny, but what was sad was the lucario start after. Get him to 60% and then I die to a fair side-b offstage...
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Good thing I put a question mark. I don't know what to call it, although it pretty much is a Waveland so let's stick with that for now. I'm referring to the technique where I hop from the ledge and then air dodge straight down so I land on the stage with one foot offstage. The foot part is very important because at that distance from the ledge, Bowser is guaranteed to fortress hog without going too far. To put it in perspective, try rolling as far off the stage as you can and try a hog from there and you'll get the same result from this particular Waveland. Neat!