Ike's wall of pain/Use of F-air

[3xSwords]

Ok we all know Jiggs has the wall of pain and kirby has a fence of pain but what about Ike? Sure he can't WoP like floaties, but hell I'm sure you guys have done this before too. Consecutive f-airs on the opponent off the ledge and spacing properly so he can't do anything. Then when he tries to grab the edge you FF f-air him again.

I've done this before on my friends Wolf, and it was epic. He couldn't do anything from like 20-75%. How many of you guys have done this? I think we should call it the iron wall or something. So then basically I want to know what do you guys use the f-air for epic spacing ownage or a killing move?

EDIT: you flame me for the name I say "Grand Viper" lol

 

[Doval]

This is a joke, right?

 

[xYz]

This is a joke, right?

no.

he's right.
you can fair to double jump fair off the stage for a somewhat version of WoP, I find it easier to do it off a platform.

 

[Doval]

He's right in that it can be done. However, it's nothing like a real Wall of Pain, and no one's going to run into the f-air so many times in a row that he'd take 55% damage without sucking really hard.

 

[xYz]

you'd be surprise at how you can catch your opponent off guard with two consequtive fairs. it's a sick technique to add on your gameplay.

 

[3xSwords]

Yeah also guys notice the 2nd part of the post. Asking would you guys use a f-air as a killing move or a damage builder? The only time I kill w/ an f-air is when the opponent is around 90% after I die, then the move denigration wears of and f-air is at full power. And since it is so easy to kill w/ should f-air be used as a finisher or should it stay as a damage builder?

 

[comboking]

you opponent can't help it when they are recovering

 

[Doval]

3xSwords: N-air and B-air are better for racking up damage simply because they're faster and also have less landing lag (especially N-air, since it covers such an insane area and can be followed up immediately with AAA upon landing.)

Comboking: Most opponents can air dodge and still recover.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

3xSwords: N-air and B-air are better for racking up damage simply because they're faster and also have less landing lag (especially N-air, since it covers such an insane area and can be followed up immediately with AAA upon landing.)

Comboking: Most opponents can air dodge and still recover.

Most players will see an approaching Ike while getting edgeguarded, and go
"Holy Crap, I'm gonna get Faired/Daired"
Airdodge by instinct because Ike's close
Then proceed to get to hit by the Fair because they airdodged early

You'd be surprised how often this happens. Especially if you condition your opponent into knowing you'll fair. Still, I tend not to jump off the stage to guard because Ike has such a piss poor recovery.

 

[3xSwords]

3xSwords: N-air and B-air are better for racking up damage simply because they're faster and also have less landing lag (especially N-air, since it covers such an insane area and can be followed up immediately with AAA upon landing.)

Comboking: Most opponents can air dodge and still recover.

Ummm...
so does that mean you don't use the f-air as a damage builder? I mean f-air has lag on landing but if you spaced correctly then you can't be punished even when you get shielded. But would the f-air be a good finisher since it is so ridiculously easy to hit with and is pretty powerful. Or do you guys prefer to use n-air and f-air more to deal damage and then finish with a b-air?

 

[Doval]

Most players will see an approaching Ike while getting edgeguarded, and go
"Holy Crap, I'm gonna get Faired/Daired"
Airdodge by instinct because Ike's close
Then proceed to get to hit by the Fair because they airdodged early

You'd be surprised how often this happens. Especially if you condition your opponent into knowing you'll fair. Still, I tend not to jump off the stage to guard because Ike has such a piss poor recovery.

I hate to be this blunt, but an opponent that gets caught that way more than once really sucks at air dodging. I can forgive screwing up an air dodge once, but Ike doesn't have much aerial movement and he pretty much telegraphs how he's going to try to kill you in advance since he has very little choice in the matter.

Ummm...
so does that mean you don't use the f-air as a damage builder? I mean f-air has lag on landing but if you spaced correctly then you can't be punished even when you get shielded. But would the f-air be a good finisher since it is so ridiculously easy to hit with and is pretty powerful. Or do you guys prefer to use n-air and f-air more to deal damage and then finish with a b-air?

I use whichever attack is safest. If I see an opportunity to use F-air, I will. But you'll connect far more often with N-air, plain and simple, simply because it's both faster, and harder to punish. In other words, it's safer.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

ive done that sometimes but i usually get air dodged after the 1st one but when it works its pretty good so it doesnt hurt to try and i dont know very many ways to edge guard with ike.

and i use fair as a dmg builder i just cant seem to get the range right with nair i miss right when they are by me and then get smashed with fair i can space a bit better and i do k0 with it sometimes either at high dmg or after i respawn

 

[Ussi]

sometimes air dodging means you're gonna die anyways cause you'll miss the ledge. I had a snake eat a forward smash cause if he dodged he'd fall through the ledge and couldn't come back since he used his Up B already.

 

[thewiredknight]

I find b-air a bit better due to it havig more push, cost is it has to be lined up better and an airdodge can more easily kill it. F-air I use more as a damage builder and a spacing tool.

 

[Doval]

sometimes air dodging means you're gonna die anyways cause you'll miss the ledge. I had a snake eat a forward smash cause if he dodged he'd fall through the ledge and couldn't come back since he used his Up B already.

If by "sometimes," you mean "once in a blue moon," yes. Ike doesn't have any attacks that'll send an opponent straight horizontal, so almost every character will have enough height to air dodge and still recover.

and i use fair as a dmg builder i just cant seem to get the range right with nair i miss right when they are by me and then get smashed with fair i can space a bit better and i do k0 with it sometimes either at high dmg or after i respawn

I find it hard to believe that you could get smashed after a properly timed n-air (i.e. fastfallen as the blade is swinging down, so you get an arc that extends in front of you all the way to the ground) considering how little lag n-air has upon landing.

 

[3xSwords]

.I use whichever attack is safest. If I see an opportunity to use F-air, I will. But you'll connect far more often with N-air, plain and simple, simply because it's both faster, and harder to punish. In other words, it's safer.

I guess its personal preference but when you think about it f-air is just as safe as n-air b/c it has pretty much double the range. And so if you are hitting with it properly aka at max range. Then even if the opponents shields it, the time they need to dash forward and attack can be countered w/ AAA or shield grab etc, b/c the landing lag isn't that bad for the f-air. Although n-air is definitely better for setting up combos.

And Doval since you seem to know how to use the n-air very well, would like to give me advice on how to hit with the tip of it? I always find myself missing or getting hit out of it, b/c I DI'd too much towards the opponent. Any advice like when to FF while DI'ing towards the opponent and such would be helpful? Although it might just be the curved arc of the attack that's throwing me off....

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

I hate to be this blunt, but an opponent that gets caught that way more than once really sucks at air dodging. I can forgive screwing up an air dodge once, but Ike doesn't have much aerial movement and he pretty much telegraphs how he's going to try to kill you in advance since he has very little choice in the matter.

Then this likely makes sense for me because I only jump off the stage when I'm pretty certain that my opponent isn't expecting me too. I probably jump off to fair once every 2 matches. I hate jumping off the edge with Ike, its just not safe. The hunter can become the hunted very easily in that situation.

The only time I'll jump off nowadays is to a Dair to spike a recovery that's easy to predict. And even thats becoming harder nowadays.

 

[Doval]

I guess its personal preference but when you think about it f-air is just as safe as n-air b/c it has pretty much double the range. And so if you are hitting with it properly aka at max range. Then even if the opponents shields it, the time they need to dash forward and attack can be countered w/ AAA or shield grab etc, b/c the landing lag isn't that bad for the f-air.

You're assuming they won't spot dodge in your face, which is a very real possibility considering that the f-air has so much start-up, that you have to start it before you actually get within hitting range.

Anyways, the proper way to do a short-hopped n-air is to wait 'til the peak of your jump, n-air, and fastfall shortly afterwards. If you think of the n-air as a circle, you'll see the top right quarter of the circle come out. You should land with the sword roughly parallel to the ground. If you do it that way, it's very hard to punish, because you land with the sword in front of you, and few things can close the gap before you can shield, roll, or AAA. I don't know what to tell you about spacing it, just try it and practice I guess.

The only time I'll jump off nowadays is to a Dair to spike a recovery that's easy to predict. And even thats becoming harder nowadays.

Yeah, I know what you mean.

 

[3xSwords]

Ok Doval thx for the tip on n-air. Although I do consider the fact that they spotdodge in my face and if you do it at max range then they won't be able to counter b/c you will have recovered from the landing lag which has IASA frames. Also if you are a very aggressive person then I guess your situation would differ from mine, b/c I play a safe-aggro style where I am constantly pressuring them but the hits won't land all the time. They will be at the tip or just barely miss the tip of the blade so that when they try to charge it will hit them in their face.

I guess f-air is more suited for me right now b/c of the fact that I play like this, while you on the other hand might like the n-air and b-air more b/c you favor their quickness in close combat. I guess our style differences might explain our different views on what to use more, but then again I'm only guessing what your style of play is. But I guess I should learn to be more aggressive.

 

[Chompskee]

Ike's recovery is not as bad as people make it sound, what is hard is once you have the ledge to be able to come back up. I don't usually get gimped unless its my own fault for trying to sweet spot when i shouldn't have at the time.

I Think its fundamental to understand that even though Ike's recovery is not that great you have an advatage edge guarding over others due to footing. So it just takes practice to know what to do and when. I think I am very aggresive on the edge with Ike and about half the time it pays off. Before i used to die a lot trying different things on the edge but now it just made my recovery very good and my edge game better.

About the double Fair, its situational but it works xYz does it to me all the time.

I use the Fair also to edge guard , i dont know if any of you do but i feel its the least punishable move due to range and cancelling with a short hop. It covers a roll , a jump and ever hits them if the hold the ledge for too long and you're still far enough that must ledge attacks with invs. don't hit you. The hard part is the timing.