Ike Social Thread

[GeZ]

im joking too or else you'd be neck high in infractions :3

GG no re(ban)

 

[Badwolf]

So is there somewhere on here talking about Ike's stages? If not should I make a thread for it? And if so where?

 

[MLGF]

Does it have walls?

-> Yes
-> No

If yes, it's likely good for Ike.

I dunno, I find Green Hill to be his best personally.

 

[metroid1117]

Warioware and Fountain also nice because the side platforms set up for DACUS traps.

 

[Commander]

I like all stages. It depends entirely on the match up for me. Wario Ware is the best stage most often though.

 

[SparkingZero]

Warioware and Fountain also nice because the side platforms set up for DACUS traps.

I don't really use Dacus, but in what situations do you generally DACUS?

 

[grandpappy]

Ike's DACUS seems really hard to me. Does he have a smaller window of frames to perform DACUS in than other characters? I've been able to do it sort of consistently with, say, Wario and Ganon, but whenever I pull it off with Ike it almost seems like an accident.

 

[SpiderMad]

http://smashboards.com/threads/dacu...gs-applications-and-other-information.344701/

@ grandpappy You coming to the Gamer's HQ monthly tomorrow?
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd....078_684188771668772_3733001625911845088_n.jpg

 

[GeZ]

Ike's DACUS seems really hard to me. Does he have a smaller window of frames to perform DACUS in than other characters? I've been able to do it sort of consistently with, say, Wario and Ganon, but whenever I pull it off with Ike it almost seems like an accident.

I don't know if SpiderMad's link addressed this but Ike's DACUS is one of the easier ones to perform, I'd put it at about the same difficulty as Ganondorfs, just with slightly different timing.

 

[metroid1117]

I don't really use Dacus, but in what situations do you generally DACUS?

Depending on the opponent's DI, FThrow, BThrow, and DThrow can either combo into a DACUS or force a tech chase position near the edge from which a DACUS covers multiple options (tech in place and tech behind). You can also NAir -> DACUS if the opponent attempts to DI away.

Ike's DACUS seems really hard to me. Does he have a smaller window of frames to perform DACUS in than other characters? I've been able to do it sort of consistently with, say, Wario and Ganon, but whenever I pull it off with Ike it almost seems like an accident.

The timing available to DACUS depends on the jumpsquat frames of the character; Marth and Roy, for example, have 4-frame jumpsquats and have a 1-frame window to DACUS, whereas Ganon's is relatively easy to perform because his jumpsquat is 6 frames, so he has a 3-frame window to DACUS. Ike has a 5-frame jumpsquat, so he has a 2 frame window to DACUS; it should be the same difficulty as Wario's and slightly harder than Ganon's. I claw to DACUS, meaning I shift my right hand such that I dash attack (C-stick) with my thumb and up+A with my index finger.

 

[grandpappy]

Ah, ok. I guess it's just a timing issue with me then. Just gotta work on it more

 

[SparkingZero]

Depending on the opponent's DI, FThrow, BThrow, and DThrow can either combo into a DACUS or force a tech chase position near the edge from which a DACUS covers multiple options (tech in place and tech behind). You can also NAir -> DACUS if the opponent attempts to DI away.



The timing available to DACUS depends on the jumpsquat frames of the character; Marth and Roy, for example, have 4-frame jumpsquats and have a 1-frame window to DACUS, whereas Ganon's is relatively easy to perform because his jumpsquat is 6 frames, so he has a 3-frame window to DACUS. Ike has a 5-frame jumpsquat, so he has a 2 frame window to DACUS; it should be the same difficulty as Wario's and slightly harder than Ganon's. I claw to DACUS, meaning I shift my right hand such that I dash attack (C-stick) with my thumb and up+A with my index finger.

That's cool dude I'll try it out thanks

 

[SparkingZero]

Quick test sorry folks

 

[Commander]

You guys do know you can use Z for Ike's DACUS right?

 

[SparkingZero]

How often do you guys use Ike's Dair OoS? Someone suggested it to me at first I thought it was crazy , but then I thought about how long the hit box is there. What do you guys think?

 

[SpiderMad]

in a FH or SH? Up-air is only 1 frame or so longer than bair so that's an option too

 

[SparkingZero]

in a FH or SH? Up-air is only 1 frame or so longer than bair so that's an option too

SH

 

[SpiderMad]

Why not FH?

 

[Y-L]

Did you guys read the blog post on the PM website about recoveries being nerfed for the next update? RIP wall jumps?

 

[Commander]

Did you guys read the blog post on the PM website about recoveries being nerfed for the next update? RIP wall jumps?

I highly doubt Ike will be touched at all. He gets hit once at all and he is gone. Wall Jumps are the only way he can have any type of mixup in his recovery and having just 1 would be stupid. I'm personally against any and all recovery nerfs because I always go deep for edge guards and thus rarely had issues. I expect things to get easier for me and for players to keep being scrubs anyways.

 

[NWRL]

Yeah Ike excels at edgeguards and will probably be sick nasty with the changes.

I doubt his recovery will be touched, it's linear and exploitable.

 

[SparkingZero]

Why not FH?

Well it doesn't really matter I'm just asking in general if it's a good option OoS

 

[Y-L]

idk guys Ikes wall jumps are really good and difficult to punish.

 

[SparkingZero]

idk guys Ikes wall jumps are really good and difficult to punish.

Well Ike is pretty vulnerable while wall jumping , and just about any projectile will knock Ike out of his Aether , I think he's fine.

 

[Commander]

idk guys Ikes wall jumps are really good and difficult to punish.

They only function as a stall. You will eventually QD into the ledge or use aether. Ike is one of the easiest chars to edgeguard.

 

[Y-L]

They only function as a stall. You will eventually QD into the ledge or use aether. Ike is one of the easiest chars to edgeguard.

I don't agree with that, they aren't a stall because charge qd->walljump->instant aether makes Ike's recovery soo much better. And Ike is definitely one of the harder characters to edgeguard with his up b able to hit you through the stage and he accelerates with both options rather than move with a linear speed. Recovering with quickdraw also gives you a disjointed attack which makes it difficult to edgeguard.

 

[RomanCenturionX]

I don't agree with that, they aren't a stall because charge qd->walljump->instant aether makes Ike's recovery soo much better. And Ike is definitely one of the harder characters to edgeguard with his up b able to hit you through the stage and he accelerates with both options rather than move with a linear speed. Recovering with quickdraw also gives you a disjointed attack which makes it difficult to edgeguard.

Well I can't really agree with that, I know I can only speak for myself and I am well versed in Ike's quirks more than some of my practice partners (when they play Ike out of frustration at my Ike to show me how OP Ike is because of his recovery or for fun). When Ike lands on stage with Aether he takes a really long time to check himself for any cuts, bruises, or unidentifiable stains from his pre-match meal. As Snake, all I do is run away from Ragnell's range and then run up once he lands and get a free sticky. Or when he QD's on stage all I need to do is either fire a well timed mortar in the air to get a good combo setup, set down a mine for a combo set up, or a b reversed tranquilizer for a combo setup. Ike's recovery isn't really something to be feared unless you aren't in proper position to punish it or he sweet spots. Other characters have different means of defending against Ike's recovery but I know Snake the second best out of the cast so I used him as my example.

 

[Y-L]

Well I can't really agree with that, I know I can only speak for myself and I am well versed in Ike's quirks more than some of my practice partners (when they play Ike out of frustration at my Ike to show me how OP Ike is because of his recovery or for fun). When Ike lands on stage with Aether he takes a really long time to check himself for any cuts, bruises, or unidentifiable stains from his pre-match meal. As Snake, all I do is run away from Ragnell's range and then run up once he lands and get a free sticky. Or when he QD's on stage all I need to do is either fire a well timed mortar in the air to get a good combo setup, set down a mine for a combo set up, or a b reversed tranquilizer for a combo setup. Ike's recovery isn't really something to be feared unless you aren't in proper position to punish it or he sweet spots. Other characters have different means of defending against Ike's recovery but I know Snake the second best out of the cast so I used him as my example.

lol you never up b on or on to stage of course that's easy to punish. You can up b from the ledge, hold towards stage to get your sword to go through the stage, then hold back to grab the ledge again. Again, you don't quickdraw onto stage either unless you're forced to. Ike can use his quickdraw attack to hit opponents that don't have ledge invincibility off, plus it's disjointed. If you don't make it back you can opt to wall jump and quickdraw again as well. Worst case scenario is you get hit by a mine. I'm not saying Ike's recovery is OP or anything but it's definitely above average.

 

[RomanCenturionX]

lol you never up b on or on to stage of course that's easy to punish. You can up b from the ledge, hold towards stage to get your sword to go through the stage, then hold back to grab the ledge again. Again, you don't quickdraw onto stage either unless you're forced to. Ike can use his quickdraw attack to hit opponents that don't have ledge invincibility off, plus it's disjointed. If you don't make it back you can opt to wall jump and quickdraw again as well. Worst case scenario is you get hit by a mine. I'm not saying Ike's recovery is OP or anything but it's definitely above average.

I wasn't trying to say Ike's recovery was bad I was saying it isn't invulnerable to edge guarding and as such, is relatively simple to mitigate. But I will examine the scenario that I have encountered as an Ike main, should I over shoot the edge for whatever reason and need to drift back to the ledge to avoid what would be a punish that is likely to send me back off stage what I would do as Snake is:

1) Shield the sword hits and prepare to set up my stage game and limit Ike's options coming on the stage
2) Try to steal the ledge from Ike during the apex of Aether
3) Try to knock Ike out of Aether with a grenade

Now lets say I grab the ledge early and my invincibility wears off and the Ike player sees this and commit to QD at me to stage spike me I can do one of the following:

1) Attempt to use an edge dropped aerials to knock Ike away (probably won't work but you can try)
2) Eat the hit and tech the stage into a Cypher (Snake's Up-B)
3) Refresh invincibility with a Hax dash or get on stage and start setting up traps

I find it hard to believe that Ike would get any recovery nerfs or buffs based on the fact that Ike's recovery has answers to them that don't involve you taking some percent (Diddy) or just letting them gain positioning back on stage essentially for free (Pit or M2). Then again I don't believe recoveries should be nerfed in general and especially Ike's recovery shouldn't be nerfed, particularly when "Getting Iked" (getting it down and away offstage making it impossible for Ike to recover without a wall if that is just a term my friends use) is still a possibility.

 

[Y-L]

1) Shield the sword hits and prepare to set up my stage game and limit Ike's options coming on the stage
2) Try to steal the ledge from Ike during the apex of Aether
3) Try to knock Ike out of Aether with a grenade

Options 1 and 3 are viable but then again those are viable against anybody considering Snake is a setup character, preparing a setup game isn't even an edgeguard anyways and Ike has plenty of mixups to get on stage once he's on the ledge. Option 2 will probably get you killed (you don't recover high with Ike)

1) Attempt to use an edge dropped aerials to knock Ike away (probably won't work but you can try)
2) Eat the hit and tech the stage into a Cypher (Snake's Up-B)
3) Refresh invincibility with a Hax dash or get on stage and start setting up traps

Options 1 and 2 will probably get you killed and for option 3 why would you hax dash instead of just ledge dropping and grabbing ledge again, hax dash is slow and vulnerable with anyone except Falcon really and if you need to refresh your invincibility you risk losing the edge. The best way to edgeguard quickdraw is to wait at the ledge and threaten to space an attack to hit aether and if he decides to quickdraw to wavedash off right as he's coming towards you. However Ike can choose to wait and quick draw walk kick aether instead. Setting up on stage implies that Ike is already on the ledge where he's safe.

I find it hard to believe that Ike would get any recovery nerfs or buffs based on the fact that Ike's recovery has answers to them that don't involve you taking some percent (Diddy) or just letting them gain positioning back on stage essentially for free (Pit or M2). Then again I don't believe recoveries should be nerfed in general and especially Ike's recovery shouldn't be nerfed, particularly when "Getting Iked" (getting it down and away offstage making it impossible for Ike to recover without a wall if that is just a term my friends use) is still a possibility.

The blog post was mainly saying that recoveries should be more like melee where there are more choreographed edgeguards. If Ike was in melee there would be so much moaning about his recovery. I don't necessarily believe it should be nerfed either but it is definitely much much better than most of the cast. He has an accelerating, long ranged recovery with mixups and lots of active hitboxes which makes it pretty difficult to edgeguard if you know what you're doing.

 

[RomanCenturionX]

Options 1 and 3 are viable but then again those are viable against anybody considering Snake is a setup character, preparing a setup game isn't even an edgeguard anyways and Ike has plenty of mixups to get on stage once he's on the ledge. Option 2 will probably get you killed (you don't recover high with Ike)


Options 1 and 2 will probably get you killed and for option 3 why would you hax dash instead of just ledge dropping and grabbing ledge again, hax dash is slow and vulnerable with anyone except Falcon really and if you need to refresh your invincibility you risk losing the edge. The best way to edgeguard quickdraw is to wait at the ledge and threaten to space an attack to hit aether and if he decides to quickdraw to wavedash off right as he's coming towards you. However Ike can choose to wait and quick draw walk kick aether instead. Setting up on stage implies that Ike is already on the ledge where he's safe.


The blog post was mainly saying that recoveries should be more like melee where there are more choreographed edgeguards. If Ike was in melee there would be so much moaning about his recovery. I don't necessarily believe it should be nerfed either but it is definitely much much better than most of the cast. He has an accelerating, long ranged recovery with mixups and lots of active hitboxes which makes it pretty difficult to edgeguard if you know what you're doing.

Just to clarify things a bit, the first scenario was that the Ile player had already chosen to Up-B slightly above the edge of a stage and adjust to grab the edge on the way down as you presented in your previous post. So stealing the ledge from under Ike isn't entirely out of the question nor will it get me killed unless I get caught in aether. Also, by set up game I mean placing mines and throwings some projectile hitboxes out to limit Ike's options, I apologize if I wasn't clear.

For the second scenario I was using your provided example of Ike trying to hit me off a ledge using the QD attack while recovering. So refreshing invincibility by jumping gives Ike a free ledge and rolling is an impossibility in this scenario. Obviously Ike is at the advantage in this scenario so most of my options aren't good since in this case I wasted time to set up an edge guard by having a tea party on the ledge. This wasn't supposed to be how does Snake edge guard Ike post as I am not an complete expert on either of these characters but I know enough to have an opinion on what to do in a certain situation.

I wasn't referring to the blog post in my last paragraph, that was just a rant. Anyway, sorry if I came off as confrontational I certainly didn't mean it, especially to someone who enjoys playing the same character that I do

 

[grandpappy]

Guys is this the new Ike meta?

This is really hard to watch

 

[CBO0tz]

Guys is this the new Ike meta?

This is really hard to watch

This is amazing to watch. Please, somebody make this guy's voice Ike's voice.

 

[GeZ]

The trick is to believe you're Ike. Then your moves hit for like a million percent and your doubles partner never loses a stock, but only if he's your friend.

 

[Bryonato]

How's it going guys? Been putting in a bit of lab work with Ike for a few weeks now. I've always said if I didn't main Ness I'd main Ike.
I'm considering busting him out as a secondary in tournament soon here.

 

[Y-L]

How's it going guys? Been putting in a bit of lab work with Ike for a few weeks now. I've always said if I didn't main Ness I'd main Ike.
I'm considering busting him out as a secondary in tournament soon here.

Awesome! Us Ike players know he won't let you down, feel free to post if you have any questions we don't bite!

 

[NWRL]

We do bite actually, we don't need any dirty Ness players here

(Kidding, mostly)

 

[FoxBlaze71]

Hello, I play Samus/Fox. Just stopping by to further degrade your social with more impure non-Ike players.

 

[Bryonato]

We do bite actually, we don't need any dirty Ness players here

(Kidding, mostly)

MOSTLY, operative word

 

[grandpappy]

Hey. Come on. Ness is a cool guy. Ike can always use more friends to fight for.

Hello, I play Samus/Fox. Just stopping by to further degrade your social with more impure non-Ike players.

Stop everything and play Ike.