Ike: Official Character Discussion

[Ulevo]

Discussion for Ike. Anyone can suggest anything for any of these topics, and it'll be noted. Popular suggestions/values will be marked as such. Final values will be determined by popularity, so voice your opinion!

Suggested Offensive Modifications:

Suggested Defensive Modifications:


Default Physics:
SH:
FH:
FF:
DGrav:
Grav:

Physics Changes:

Specific Move Fixes:


Anything else:

 

[Dark Sonic]

Erruption could use a small lag reduction after releasing (so that you can get to the SA frames faster) to make the move more useful.

D-tilt could use a windown lag reduction, so that it's easier to combo from it and not as punishable (though Ike already has Dash cancel jabs for ground approaches)

Upthrow either needs less knockback and less knockback scailing, or just less windown lag, because right now you can't really combo from it unless it's a fast faller at like 0%.

More changes as I think of them.

 

[The Cape]

F tilt less winddown lag?

Nair less winddown lag, so you can actually do it off the stage. I would like to see him be able to full hop nair and then rejump personally.

D tilt, U throw, and eruption changes I agree to.

Also, D throw should have less scaling off KB allowing for more Ike throw combos.

 

[Ulevo]

So far I am in agreement for all the changes mentioned.

 

[CT Chia]

Erruption could use a small lag reduction after releasing (so that you can get to the SA frames faster) to make the move more useful.

I don't know about this. I've always sort of being real meh about moves that easily cause super armor, and there's a place for them for sure, but most moves that do (olimar downB, DK upB) aren't extreme powerhouse moves like eruption lol. a lil harder to get to super armor is a fair trade off i think for its power. leave as is imo.

D-tilt could use a windown lag reduction, so that it's easier to combo from it and not as punishable (though Ike already has Dash cancel jabs for ground approaches)

agreed

Upthrow either needs less knockback and less knockback scailing, or just less windown lag, because right now you can't really combo from it unless it's a fast faller at like 0%.

i like adding less kb. not 100% sure what u mean by less scaling. if it just has less normal kb (so its low at low %s and higher as % increases) thats fine. the combos could be disastrous and awesome for low percents and harder/not possible to pull off at high percents. ike needs early control of matches to be good consider how much he gets ***** off stage.

F tilt less winddown lag?

eh, idk. this is a pretty monstrous move as it is, and the lag is a fair trade off for its power.

Nair less winddown lag, so you can actually do it off the stage. I would like to see him be able to full hop nair and then rejump personally.

yes yes yes lol. it might not be the most useful off stage, but i hate when it happens by accident and ur guaranteed like auto death lol. its not THAT amazing of a move to have such extreme cooldown.

Also, D throw should have less scaling off KB allowing for more Ike throw combos.

agreed

 

[Dark Sonic]

I don't know about this. I've always sort of being real meh about moves that easily cause super armor, and there's a place for them for sure, but most moves that do (olimar downB, DK upB) aren't extreme powerhouse moves like eruption lol. a lil harder to get to super armor is a fair trade off i think for its power. leave as is imo.

The problem is that the move has few onstage uses because it has high startup lag, and even when you do get to charging you have to release quite a while before the opponent even attacks if you want to make use of the SA. It takes a long time to get to those SA frame, making them useless for anything except for interrupting extremely predictable recoveries.

Also, Wario's f-smash has immediate super armor after release, is powerful, has little startup lag, and has much less ending lag, and you're worried about eruption becoming OP? A move with lot's of startup lag, mediocre horizontal range (especially compared to the rest of his moves), and lot's of ending lag?

 

[CT Chia]

true, good points. make the lag after releasing the b button a lil faster lol.

 

[goodoldganon]

The eruption timing was fine is the slower atmosphere of vBrawl but needs sped up to be useful with the speed buffs. I think Ike is fine as he is but I highly recommend speeding his N-air up to prevent the auto-deaths it can cause when pushed off the stage. It can even happen on lower buffers too.

 

[kupo15]

I have two suggestions.

Remove the sour spot in the dtilt and make it a spike. This acts like the ftilt but the ftilit is always preferred since it has more range and is faster making this an arbitrary sour spot. The dtilt should only be used for spiking and popping people up.

Also, other members think about speeding up the utilt

 

[kupo15]

His counter is so ****ty. Should we do something to it like more power? We don't necessarily have to make it instant like marths

 

[Revven]

Actually, his counter isn't that bad. It can be used offstage quite well against characters like Ness against PKT2, he can counter it and it will go through Ness' recovery and knock him back farther where as Marth's will not. I'm not so sure his counter needs a buff, it functions as it should, a GTFO move. The only buff I can see for Ike is a faster wind-down on Utilt. (Probably can't be implemented until Almas is done rewriting the Frame Speed Modifier).

 

[MuBa]

Here's what I think needs to be changed


-Raise the jump height (From hex 6 to 7) , and give more aerial momentum (In Hex -> 2200) .

Jump /Grav value code
22468550 -> 22478550

Momentum Capture Data
22 being Ike's character ID
00 being the momentum.

-Lower the KB of Ike's Dthrow to make it comboable

 

[MuBa]

Here's what I think needs to be changed


-Raise the jump height (From hex 6 to 7) , and give more aerial momentum (In Hex -> 2200) .

Jump /Grav value code
22468550 -> 22478550

Momentum Capture Data
22 being Ike's character ID
00 being the momentum.

-Lower the KB of Ike's Dthrow to make it comboable

 

[Dark Sonic]

Here's what I think needs to be changed


-Raise the jump height (From hex 6 to 7) , and give more aerial momentum (In Hex -> 2200) .

Jump /Grav value code
22468550 -> 22478550

Momentum Capture Data
22 being Ike's character ID
00 being the momentum.

-Lower the KB of Ike's Dthrow to make it comboable

Umm...Ike's d-throw *****. With no DI it combos into uair at KILL PERCENTS. With DI it pretty much always combos into fair (which puts them off stage)

As for aerial momentum, idk if it will really help Ike. He typically hits his opponents too far to chase anyway. A little more ground speed (which can be done with Plan Zero) would be a much better buff.

Jump height could be looked into (I don't really see the benefit of increasing it, if you could tell me I would appreciate it).

A slightly larger second jump would help him though (once again, using Plan Zero to seperate it from full jump values).

 

[Almas]

Well, PW has explained how second jump height works now. Instead of it having it's own launch power, it works as a ratio of the launch power of the initial jump. Which sheds light on why I couldn't find it before. That said it doesn't really suggest how it should be found now.

 

[The Cape]

For the Ike D throw KBG idea. I think it. The move has 120 KBG and around 130% or so if you get a grab then the move is basically useless and he falls into Melee Marth syndrome. With less KBG the move may actually have a more solid use until around 150% or so, giving Ike a slightly larger window of success.

 

[Dark Sonic]

For the Ike D throw KBG idea. I think it. The move has 120 KBG and around 130% or so if you get a grab then the move is basically useless and he falls into Melee Marth syndrome. With less KBG the move may actually have a more solid use until around 150% or so, giving Ike a slightly larger window of success.

what's wrong with falling into melee Marth syndrome? It's a punishment for Ike not killing them earlier like he's supposed to. His job is to get low percent kills, if he fails to do so then the opponent reaps the benefits.

And at such high percents, he can still easily get them off the stage with just a fair, jab, d-tilt hilt, f-throw, or b-throw. Or he can striaght up kill them with f-tilt, uptilt, d-smash, upsmash, f-smash (lol?), neutral B, bair, uair, or weak hit dair. He's perfectly fine on kill options, it's mobility that's hurting him imo, which is why I suggested faster run speed and a higher double jump.

 

[goodoldganon]

Agreed on all accounts with DS. I say just increase his run speed. That will give him a little more momentum to won't it?