Ike Moveset Speculation/Discussion

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Maybe he has a strong on stage game to compensate

I'll readily trade Captain Falcon speed for Quick Draw. In a heartbeat.

 

[NWRL]

Exactlty. People don't realize that Namco is helping balance this game, they have way more experience in fighters than Sakurai so expect a pretty decently balanced roster. I don't think we'll have a MK in Smash 4

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Exactlty. People don't realize that Namco is helping balance this game, they have way more experience in fighters than Sakurai so expect a pretty decently balanced roster. I don't think we'll have a MK in Smash 4

Actually, keeping PM version 2.1 in mind it's very easy to screw up and overbuff Ike.

So I have my fingers crossed :trollface:

Edit: How the MacDuff do I actually trollface

 

[Hong]

If Quick-Draw is left unchanged though I will give up on this game.

Hey, Quick Draw was actually usable. What did we use Eruption for in Brawl... Landing?

Valid, sure. But we can do better than that. Gosh, I rather have Ike pull out a hammer for a ghetto Shield Breaker. At least that move has design direction. Maybe the Hammer could give Ike super fast downward momentum when used in the air.

Not as good as just getting Ragnell's ranged attack, but I wouldn't complain, either.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Hey, Quick Draw was actually usable. What did we use Eruption for in Brawl... Landing?

Valid, sure. But we can do better than that. Gosh, I rather have Ike pull out a hammer for a ghetto Shield Breaker. At least that move has design direction. Maybe the Hammer could give Ike super fast downward momentum when used in the air.

Not as good as just getting Ragnell's ranged attack, but I wouldn't complain, either.

Well, look at the pros and cons:

a) Excellent recovery tool*
b) Good to cover ground quickly

But

1) Absurdly long endlag on hit, so impossible to follow up and easy to punish
2) No control over attacking
3) Linear recovery, easy to intercept
4) One can kill Ike by the mere action of jumping in front of him or tossing out an article for the auto-attack to strike, sending us in special fall and letting us fall to our deaths.

It's still a good tool in Brawl as I previously asserted but you can't say that it doesn't need some fixes with a straight face. Some very simple, minor and obvious changes at the very least are in order, if not a complete overhaul or conceptual redesign a la PM.

 

[Hong]

That's a good summary of it.

You know, if they actually leave Ike's specials as they were, it would be hilarious. Got to give someone mad props if he can single-highhandedly rustle the jimmies of hundreds of thousands of gamers.

At least I'll still have my favourite troll character.

 

[SmashBroski]

I can do without eruption. I wonder what changes sakurai is making to aether. Maybe it will heal him like it does in awakening

In the Fire Emblem games, Aether's pretty much Sol and Luna put together.

Aether in Brawl (and Smash 4 so far) is based on the "Sol" part of Aether, maybe we might get the Luna part if Ike hits the ground and the player presses B upon impact...?

 

[Xuan Wu]

Ike's recovery... Even though it is already decent, having two options, imagine being able to follow-up Aether from Quick Draw in this iteration. It would benefit him greatly, especially if he is sent flying at mostly horizontal trajectories. Could it be a possibility? There hasn't been any confirmation yet (I don't think) whether or not Ike retains his helpless animation when using Quick Draw in midair.

I agree that the recent screenshot may be hinting something about Ike, which worries me somewhat.

^-^

 

[Hong]

Unfortunately we really haven't had any information at all on Ike, really.

Of course, since he sucked so badly, it's only natural people will be curious as to his status. With such cool looking moves and an interesting play style, it was a real shame.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Ike's recovery... Even though it is already decent, having two options, imagine being able to follow-up Aether from Quick Draw in this iteration. It would benefit him greatly, especially if he is sent flying at mostly horizontal trajectories. Could it be a possibility? There hasn't been any confirmation yet (I don't think) whether or not Ike retains his helpless animation when using Quick Draw in midair.

I agree that the recent screenshot may be hinting something about Ike, which worries me somewhat.

^-^

I feel that would be way too good, but I wouldn't complain

Also, it might not be way too good. We still don't have a good handle on how floaty or fast this game is.

 

[Xuan Wu]

I feel that would be way too good, but I wouldn't complain

Also, it might not be way too good. We still don't have a good handle on how floaty or fast this game is.

Yes. I could see how it may detract from the balance.

I remember reading from several sources pointing out the game speed will be faster than SSBB but slower than SSBM. The following article is nearly a year old and physics of the game may be subject to change. Let's see if Sakurai keeps his word on this until release day. http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/14/4429220/super-smash-bros-for-wii-u-nintendo-3ds-removes-tripping

^-^

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Yes. I could see how it may detract from the balance.

I remember reading from several sources pointing out the game speed will be faster than SSBB but slower than SSBM. The following article is nearly a year old and physics of the game may be subject to change. Let's see if Sakurai keeps his word on this until release day. http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/14/4429220/super-smash-bros-for-wii-u-nintendo-3ds-removes-tripping

^-^

I care nothing for such statements until I can actually hold the game and shake things out for myself. Brawl and Melee had equal hit-stun values and average movement speed didn't change, but hitstun cancelling, low gravity and other things made it a very, very different engine. We'll see how much 'slower than Melee, faster than Brawl' it is when it's out.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Well, the return of Eruption is.. less than ideal. Perhaps the sword beam is still possible via custom movesets, but I doubt. Whatever.

 

[Morian]

No projectile, no blue flames, no indications of Eruption buff according to Sakurai's comment. Still I have hope for Aether and Quickdraw.

 

[Rattlehead2Deth]

Extremely disappointed to see Eruption coming back. At the very least, it should've had blue flames. Interesting that Sakurai was going to add sword beams in brawl, but removed it in play testing presumably (don't know if this was confirmed) because it made him too good. I'm sure he's aware of the tier list, and knows Ike can stand to see some buffs, so...why not add the beams? Greater source material, buff via projectile, etc. God I hope he's at least faster than Brawl. Ike isn't slow at all in Fire Emblem! D:

 

[Rattlehead2Deth]

I was playing Path of Radiance the other day, and it made me think how much I'd enjoy hearing the sound aether makes upon activation in Smash 4. I don't see them adding the second part of the attack, or minor health recovery, but adding that sound would be a nice touch... and the blue aura that goes with it. Don't recall if the sound happens in Radiant Dawn, though...

 

[Deleted member 212841]

I was playing Path of Radiance the other day, and it made me think how much I'd enjoy hearing the sound aether makes upon activation in Smash 4. I don't see them adding the second part of the attack, or minor health recovery, but adding that sound would be a nice touch... and the blue aura that goes with it. Don't recall if the sound happens in Radiant Dawn, though...

I think it was a generic chink sound like with all the other abilities and crits.

 

[FalKoopa]

No blue flames on Eruption. So much for his attention to detail.

Maybe next time.

 

[Sol0ke]

I still have hopes that Ike himself is faster then I wouldn't mind Eruption

 

[Hong]

You know, if they actually leave Ike's specials as they were, it would be hilarious. Got to give someone mad props if he can single-highhandedly rustle the jimmies of hundreds of thousands of gamers.

I am so glad that Eruption retains its spot as Ike's neutral B move. It reflects his character so well, especially the stock fire particle effect they probably created for another character and reshaped it to work for Ike. I am so glad they have given this so much thought.

 

[Neo Zero]

Hmm....perhaps you're all to quick to judge this PotD as a failure. A theory if I may

What do you see? Besides a shining spot and no blue fire. The answer? Mario. Now you might be asking why does Mario matter, he's in many PotD's. Tell me, what is Mario doing? He's currently in the middle of tripping

But Zero, tripping was removed. Random tripping was removed, however as Diddy has shown us, the forced trip state is very well alive. But what does this have to do with Eruption? Well, what are some things that happen when a Volcano erupts. Magma and Fire will spew out for one, but more importantly, tremors will likely be created, shaking the very earth around you. Now if you're in the middle of an earthquake, I must imagine it would be very hard to remain standing, why I think you might fall down quite easily....hmm, what's another word for falling down. Tripping.

What I theorize then is this, Eruption has seen a buff that, during some point of it, perhaps during all its active charge frames, perhaps when you release the button, will inflict a forced trip to anyone in the immediate vacanity much like Sing puts people near it to sleep.

Of course I cannot prove it, but there are no items in this picture. It is possible another character somehow caused Mario to begin tripping while being off screen for Ike to Erupt, but I highly doubt that. Basically what I'm saying is we may have very well gotten a buff we didn't ask for, and one tool that could be very useful.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

You guys should care less about the fact that the flames are red and more about the fact that he will hopefully be a little faster than brawl, considering how fast he is in PoR and RD. I'd say that is quite a bit more important than flame coloring.

No one uses eruption anyways so there's no point in complaining over its visuals. I'm more upset over the fact that the Ragnell sword beam dream is likely dead

Hmm....perhaps you're all to quick to judge this PotD as a failure. A theory if I may

He's currently in the middle of tripping

thats one of his taunts or a spot dodge, not a trip

 

[Neo Zero]

Check again, that is the same animation Mario takes when he trips backwards.

Edit: in fact, I'm even more sure now. Notice that large circle around Ike that Mario's inside? That's the visual to indicate where the trip can occur

 

[DraginHikari]

Meh, the blue flames would have been an interesting detail, but I can't even really find myself getting upset about it.

 

[Hong]

You guys should care less about the fact that the flames are red and more about the fact that he will hopefully be a little faster than brawl, considering how fast he is in PoR and RD. I'd say that is quite a bit more important than flame coloring.

Just because it is a concern, that does not mean we have dismissed the more important faults within Ike. Don't tell people what to care about or what to do if they are already doing. If the director is going on to make up moves for the character (which is 100% perfectly fine for a fighter), you may as well go be thematic to the source. It's part of the reason why Luigi's green flames are more Luigi, It's part of why Ganondorf's dark flames are more Ganondorf. It's just cooler.

My problem with Eruption is the fact it is a fixated charged melee attack. I have always thought they were a stupid idea for a Special. I'll grant that it has use when landing from above and while ledge guarding, but there were still better things you could do with that button. Even Fox Phantasm has its blessings as a recovery move.

Doesn't matter how strong they make it. It could deal 999% damage at full charge. It could deal 999% damage at 75% charge. If Ike is in a position to hit with it, 3/4 grounded situations he could have just did a timed f-tilt anyways, because if you are in a disadvantageous position to get hit by this you are going to die anyways. Hopefully with super armour and a harder time reaching the ledge, we can use it like we had used Flare Blade in Melee.

Of course, I am not dismissing a product before I have played it, so much as I will always think there were better options than this from a design stand point. It s my hope that his normals are more balanced for speed and power to necessitate a charged up, more powerful move. At least Marth's Shield Breaker has been further defined to have some kind of utility function, so I hope they do something with Eruption. A tremor effect like @ Neo Zero suggests is one of many ways of going about this.

 

[Neo Zero]

It's not a suggestion, it's an analysis, one that I strongly believe in I might add. After all we have a circle that wasn't in Brawl and a trip with no explanation. I do wonder if the higher the charge, the larger the circle or if the circle will be static though. Still, imagine hitting a few jabs, before going into Eruption, tripping them and leading to a potential kill move. It also makes it more dangerous in FFA's (and remember people, Sakurai balances with FFA in mind as well, not just 1v1 or 2v2).

 

[Hong]

(and remember people, Sakurai balances with FFA in mind as well, not just 1v1 or 2v2).

Oh, we know that.

But there are moves for FFAs that are bad for 1v1, but not moves that are for 1v1 but bad at FFA. All the characters like Sheik who are something of a profound duelist can handle themselves just fine as players improve. Since FFAs are always going to be partially chance driven, chaotic and imbalanced affairs, may as well align the balance direction in an area that works, because the FFA aspect of the game won't be negatively impacted.

I know full well what he is trying to do, I just don't agree with it.

 

[Shun_one]

Always figured Eruption was based on the Bolganone Tome, so I'm not really surprised it doesn't feature blue flames of any sort.

Actually happy this move is back. Unlike a lot of other players, I actually did use this move fairly often when I played Ike. It can be a decent edge guarding technique if you know how to utilize it properly. I am curious at to what that circle (shockwave?) is there for. Is it causing Mario to trip? Or is it there purely for visual effect?

 

[Neo Zero]

Oh, we know that.

But there are moves for FFAs that are bad for 1v1, but not moves that are for 1v1 but bad at FFA. All the characters like Sheik who are something of a profound duelist can handle themselves just fine as players improve. Since FFAs are always going to be partially chance driven, chaotic and imbalanced affairs, may as well align the balance direction in an area that works, because the FFA aspect of the game won't be negatively impacted.

I know full well what he is trying to do, I just don't agree with it.

Others don't seem to grasp that as well as you do. At any rate, tremor or no tremor, hopefully the move gains some other buffs as well. It's a nice gimmick, but right now it's still just a gimmick.

The Circle would just be a visual guideline. Think of it like the notes that appear around Jigglypuff during Sing, it lets you know the radius of the effect.

 

[Shun_one]

The Circle would just be a visual guideline. Think of it like the notes that appear around Jigglypuff during Sing, it lets you know the radius of the effect.

That was my thought upon looking at it. Too soon for us to tell what it does without having seen this all in motion, but I do think you're right in your initial analysis that the shock wave is causing Mario to trip. I look forward to figuring out exactly how this thing works.

 

[BBG|Scott-Spain]

Eruption, admittedly, was my least-used move in brawl. It had a couple niche applications, but nothing too major. I was actually okay with letting it go for something with more general purpose. Let's just hope it's faster.

 

[Neo Zero]

That was my thought upon looking at it. Too soon for us to tell what it does without having seen this all in motion, but I do think you're right in your initial analysis that the shock wave is causing Mario to trip. I look forward to figuring out exactly how this thing works.

Do note, as I'm sure someone will point out, this could also be the work of Custom Movesets. However, I somehow doubt that, after all, the caption would much more likely state something of how you can alter Eruption. Instead all it mentions is it's recoil point. Regardless, I share your optimism, I'm excited to see if this is the real Eruption or an edited one, and what else may come about to his other 3 moves we may yet not realize.

 

[Hong]

Well, I suppose we all knew Ike would merit play testing regardless of what we had seen.

I owe some time with Samus, being my Melee main for over a decade and all, but I'll make sure I check out Ike on June 11th and report.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I'm sure Ike's special moves will all stay pretty much the same as Brawl.

 

[Deleted member 212841]

It just looks like a backwords ledge teeter to me. Look how close Mario is to falling off.

 

[PyroTakun]

I'm actually ok with his specials being the same, as long as they get some buff of some sort.

Although I do have to admit, I'm kind of a sad panda about the lack of blue flames.

 

[SmashBroski]

No blue flames is very disappointing... I find it odd that Luigi gets green fireballs to fit his character (which isn't necessarily true in the Mario games, IIRC) but Ike doesn't get his signature blue flame effects.

 

[Hong]

Well, I suppose we all knew Ike would merit play testing regardless of what we had seen.

I owe some time with Samus, being my Melee main for over a decade and all, but I'll make sure I check out Ike on June 11th and report.

Something tells me the demo will have the same character as e3, so we might have to wait a bit longer to see what has changed with Ike.

Not like it matters. I'm sure we'll still see him in motion in whatever gameplay footage we see from e3 regardless, since there will be no doubt some character reveal trailers to analyze.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

That's a good summary of it.

You know, if they actually leave Ike's specials as they were, it would be hilarious. Got to give someone mad props if he can single-highhandedly rustle the jimmies of hundreds of thousands of gamers.

At least I'll still have my favourite troll character.

We still haven't seen Quick Draw yet, have we?

 

[Deleted member]

Not yet. I'm just waiting for jab, and a neutral air that doesn't kill you if you use it over the cliff.