Ike Edgeguarding Help

[Havoc Cycle]

I've been getting pretty good using Eruption for edgeguarding as of lately, I'm wondering if this is a bad habit. I mean, when you think about it you've got a really amazing edgegurad. Your sword dips downwards below the edge, your SA prevents anyone from giving knockback (Most people grab the edge anyway).

I've seen people try to F-tilt edgeguard...I've had no luck with it...

Trying to Aether edgeguard is the biggest Facepalm since "Tiers don exist" .

Apart from that, I've tried edgeguard to fast fall to counter which works some of the time, though I'm prone to missing. Situationaly I can also Bair off the edge for a K.O. I'm practicing my hugging but my Eruption EG seems to work beautifully.

Any comments as to why it could be a bad thing/ countered?

 

[•Col•]

I've been getting pretty good using Eruption for edgeguarding as of lately, I'm wondering if this is a bad habit. I mean, when you think about it you've got a really amazing edgegurad. Your sword dips downwards below the edge, your SA prevents anyone from giving knockback (Most people grab the edge anyway).

I've seen people try to F-tilt edgeguard...I've had no luck with it...

Trying to Aether edgeguard is the biggest Facepalm since "Tiers don exist" .

Apart from that, I've tried edgeguard to fast fall to counter which works some of the time, though I'm prone to missing. Situationaly I can also Bair off the edge for a K.O. I'm practicing my hugging but my Eruption EG seems to work beautifully.

Any comments as to why it could be a bad thing/ countered?

Meh... Mostly just that you're going to become predictable, and your opponent will eventually find away around it... However, against some characters, they cant do anything about it.... xD At least, I haven't seen them be able to... Cpt. Falcon, Ganondorf, Link's Spin attack, and it works really well on Luigi too surprisingly... o-o Probably because he's so floaty and it takes him a second to grab the edge... I'm sure it'd work for some other characters as well...

And for another edgeguarding tactic, I like to jump off the stage and fair people... Or if they're recovering from down low, you can try to do a walkoff dair...

 

[__V]

Dtilt and Dair.

 

[Alus]

Dtilt and Dair.

that....is how you get f-aird


oh and if your feeling lucky and are quite uhh....desprate....and they are below the stage trying to go up... you can always just dash off drop down and b-air...therefore spikeing them against the stage and have them fall to their deaths moments before you do...and then your opponent will probally never play brawl again...

 

[Lex Crunch]

Ike has alot of edgeguard at his disposal. You can dash off and b-air if they're yanking the edge for too long (which almost never works, but kills them), you can d-tilt (which works even less but can be mastered somehow, I think), you can gimp them with f-air (perhaps most effective), and if you mix it up enough to become less predictable so as to not let them make up a strategy against it (and sometimes even work against said strategy) you can start charging Eruption as soon as they grab the ledge. If you time it right (not that hard) then you'll hit them 80-90% of the time no matter what they do (except maybe ledge hopping which can actually fail them sometimes). If they're below 100% damage, release Eruption milliseconds immediately after you see the first get-up frame. If they're at 100% or higher, wait a little longer after the first frame. Eruption is my favorite edgeguard ever...

 

[metroid1117]

Edgeguarding with Eruption depends on the character; if they autosweetspot, then it's usefulness is very limited (i.e. against characters like Bowser, Marth, Fox, etc.). It's possible to hit them since the hitbox is so huge, but it is considerably more difficult to do. FTilt doesn't work very well against auto-sweetspotters and neither does DTilt, but DTilt can lead to gimp KOs so it's worth the try if you notice your opponent isn't sweetspotting.

Ike can guard the edge viciously against opponents coming from below the edge; walk-off FAir, DAir (make sure you have your C-stick set to "attack" so you don't auto-fastfall; there's a way to do it without changing your C-stick from "Smashes" but I don't know how and it's riskier), and even UAir (if it's fresh, it can kill more than 1/2 the cast from the ground level of FD at 105% without DI) are viable to counter such approaches. Walk-off FAir is the riskiest; if you miss your opponent, there's a very good chance that you'll need the edge to get back, so pray they don't edgehog you to punish you for your blunder. Walk-off UAir and DAir can be recovered from without using the edge much more consistently than walk-off FAir.

If your opponent is Olimar, ROB, or Pit and they are coming back to the stage from above, using reverse Aether when hanging onto the edge to try for an Aetherspike is an effective tactic; ROB or Pit can't airdodge during their up+Bs, so it's only a matter of timing and staying unpredictable.

Stalking opponents on the ground and using USmash is also a good tactic; many players get into the habit of airdodging before they hit the ground, so charge your USmash to bait the airdodge and punish them after their invincibility ends.

 

[Havoc Cycle]

Stalking opponents on the ground and using USmash is also a good tactic; many players get into the habit of airdodging before they hit the ground, so charge your USmash to bait the airdodge and punish them after their invincibility ends.

That is what I usuually do, I lack the timing to let them fall into the U-Air, though the duration makes it easy to hit with. the walkoff Fair is too risky IMO, I'd rather just Bair from the edge.

Any advice against edgeguarding Metaknight?My reverse Aethers and edge bairs are working fairly well. Eruption hits all the time but then I get Fair combo'd. My Wii is in for repairs when I get it back I'm gunna need to work on my edgegame, I appreciate the advice guys!

 

[akkon888]

Metaknight is tough because his last recovery (That twirling thing) is very tough to stop. If he dosen't do that, stay back a few paces from the edge, and f-smash if he just gets up from the edge, or n-air or u-smash if he jumps out of the edge.

 

[Kinzer]

Trying to edgegaurd MK is probably the riskiest thing you can do, as if ike wasn't enough at a disadvantage with his slow speed, MK is fast and has multiple ways to fly around you. I would suggest abusing your range, or if you don't feel like taking a chance just stay on the stage and don't approach him, but instead let him come to you.

As for me how can Eruption serve as an edgegaurd? I can understand when it is done onstage but if you try to intercept them with it I feel like to get it's real power takes some time and by then leaves little room for mistake in coming back to the ledge.

 

[Roager]

Ok, I'm about to go into a big long explanation of how I edgeguard with Ike. I consider Ike one of the best edgeguards in the game, mainly because he's so versatile. If you disagree, fine. If you have a better way, fine. Here's what I do.

Aether: If they try to go over you, as pit's glide likes to do, throw the sword into him. As long has he doesn't manage to DI out of it, you'll hit him down, but the extra hit that knocks people away when you hit the ground doesn't happen. Why? because you grabbed the edge on the way down. The hitstun keeps most of the cast far enough down to make sure they stay down. It helps cuz it goes up to hit them, and then kills, unless they're ROB.

Eruption: fun fun fun. Super armor. if they attack you directly, this'll knock them away. I use this more than counter, cuz even though you take the damage, anything they would hit you with on the way down is weak enough that counter isn't that useful. Eruption is far more constant.

D-tilt: Kills pretty much every time. Problem is, it's one of the toughest to hit with. It only really works if they missed the edge sweetspot on the way up, or have a good horizontal, but not so much vertical, recovery. DK be warned.

F-air: If they try to sweetspot, the large arc of this can reach down below the stage far enough to stop them from edgegrabbing. Not that good, but it's your only real option against people who are very good at sweetspotting. Like Captain Falcon.

B-air: It's risky as hell. Run off the edge, b-air them, and its a stage spike. Miss, and the lag may kill you.

D-air: you know how this works. you jump out, you hit them, they fall down and die. I don't use it much, cuz i suck at it.

Eruption: yeah, i said it already, but this is a different thing. Now, i mean aerial eruption. Super armor still applies, but this is laggy like bair. So you might die. But it's an alternative to fair if they go for the edge. Just jump off, charge it, and as they go for the edge, be there, exploding.

Counter: like grounded eruption. Take your pick. I like eruption more.

oh, yeah. @Kinzer: super armor and big hitbox. I probably give it too much credit, but that's my opinoin.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Bair......laggy?

That's like, one of the few of Ike's moves that isn't laggy. >_>

 

[Lex Crunch]

Edgeguarding with Eruption depends on the character; if they autosweetspot, then it's usefulness is very limited.

Well, not as much as you're letting off. If they don't auto-sweetspot, then definitely use F-Smash

 

[Kinzer]

Bair......laggy?

That's like, one of the few of Ike's moves that isn't laggy. >_>

It has some pretty considerable ending lag if you don't drop Ike to the stage to cut down on the initial ending lag. :/

 

[Alus]

Ok, I'm about to go into a big long explanation of how I edgeguard with Ike. I consider Ike one of the best edgeguards in the game, mainly because he's so versatile. If you disagree, fine. If you have a better way, fine. Here's what I do.

Aether: If they try to go over you, as pit's glide likes to do, throw the sword into him. As long has he doesn't manage to DI out of it, you'll hit him down, but the extra hit that knocks people away when you hit the ground doesn't happen. Why? because you grabbed the edge on the way down. The hitstun keeps most of the cast far enough down to make sure they stay down. It helps cuz it goes up to hit them, and then kills, unless they're ROB.

Eruption: fun fun fun. Super armor. if they attack you directly, this'll knock them away. I use this more than counter, cuz even though you take the damage, anything they would hit you with on the way down is weak enough that counter isn't that useful. Eruption is far more constant.

D-tilt: Kills pretty much every time. Problem is, it's one of the toughest to hit with. It only really works if they missed the edge sweetspot on the way up, or have a good horizontal, but not so much vertical, recovery. DK be warned.

F-air: If they try to sweetspot, the large arc of this can reach down below the stage far enough to stop them from edgegrabbing. Not that good, but it's your only real option against people who are very good at sweetspotting. Like Captain Falcon.

B-air: It's risky as hell. Run off the edge, b-air them, and its a stage spike. Miss, and the lag may kill you.

D-air: you know how this works. you jump out, you hit them, they fall down and die. I don't use it much, cuz i suck at it.

Eruption: yeah, i said it already, but this is a different thing. Now, i mean aerial eruption. Super armor still applies, but this is laggy like bair. So you might die. But it's an alternative to fair if they go for the edge. Just jump off, charge it, and as they go for the edge, be there, exploding.

Counter: like grounded eruption. Take your pick. I like eruption more.

oh, yeah. @Kinzer: super armor and big hitbox. I probably give it too much credit, but that's my opinoin.

youre going to get kiled by its lag anyway i think... its a suicide spike ...the trick is to get your oponent to die moments before you do.....

 

[Kirk]

youre going to get kiled by its lag anyway i think... its a suicide spike ...the trick is to get your oponent to die moments before you do.....

Nope you'll live...as long as you don't fast fall. You can run off with any aerial non-fastfalled besides Nair and come back alive.

 

[HeroMystic]

This is true. In rare moments I've been able to ledgedrop, do a b-air, and barely make it back to grab the edge. Surely a walk-off would be much more easier.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Yah I don't think Bair is all that risky. The lag shouldn't be greater if it missed than if it hits seems like a word choice problem to me.

As for that MK comment. Not edge guarding him is a horrible Idea, MK's light weight is a big disadvantage against Ike especially if you can land hits on him when he is already close to the kill zone. You may kill him as early as 60-70% if you get him off the stage with Fair or Bair. Plus the match up is 5-5 or 6-4 at worse, Ike isn't at a huge disadvantage.

 

[Lex Crunch]

Ike isn't at a huge disadvantage.

That is unless MK gets Ike so much as a yard or so off the stage, then Ike is dead meat.

 

[AndrewCarlson]

That is unless MK gets Ike so much as a yard or so off the stage, then Ike is dead meat.

Not entirely so. I believe we've discussed options to guard against a gimpy Meta Knight, with the most desperate being an Aethercide.

 

[zealotscout]

dont know if this will help but , dont get me wrong eruption is a great edge guard but , against a olimar ican do 2 things either if hes too low , id quicky grab that edge and refresh the invincibility frames , or grab the ledgde, do a ledge hop U air ,if the enemy is above , edge hop D air this is he comes from below , from the sides do a reverse aether or stall and aether ,< . this is more of a edge game rather than a guard game lol.

 

[raph21]

well, if i was u i'd start practicing more edgeguards, at first i sucked at the Dair but no everybody dies form that when they fight with m, even tought i loose. try ur aether spikes they're really useful aganist players who cant fly(kirby, mk, pit charizard). also if i was u id practice the edge hop Dair(i dont do it i dont kno how to edge hop >_>)