if you were part of the buff/nerf patch team, what changes will you give megaman

[CopShowGuy]

Mega Man is sorely lacking in safe kill moves. Realistically, he probably has as many as kill moves as ZSS.

 

[Knight Dude]

Mega Man is sorely lacking in safe kill moves. Realistically, he probably has as many as kill moves as ZSS.

I noticed that too. While I'm not all that good, I do feel like Mega Man should be give some safer attacks. He has a few laggy ones. This could be easily fixed by speeding up the animations on a couple moves. Also, not sure if it's that important, but I would have Crash Bombs instantly use their explosions on a shield, as opposed to just...vanishing. It'd make for a better Shield pressure game. I'd also make Flame Sword faster too.

 

[PairODucks]

A fun change would be to reduce the knockback of sweetspot nair, and maybe reducing the knockback angle so as to create more tech chase scenarios at low percents.

 

[Sorichuudo]

After trying to use more leafshield>grab>pummel, i must say one buff that i would like, is a slightly faster pummel.

I'm not asking much here, just that if the opponent is at about 80%, let us pummel at least TWICE without them breaking free XD.

 

[Knight Dude]

After trying to use more leafshield>grab>pummel, i must say one buff that i would like, is a slightly faster pummel.

I'm not asking much here, just that if the opponent is at about 80%, let us pummel at least TWICE without them breaking free XD.

I agree. A faster Pummel would really be welcomed.

 

[ssbMars]

Yeah. Basically every guide for Megaman simply tells you "never pummel". Pummel doesn't help at all. It annoys me when characters have blatantly unviable moves that aren't even situationally useful. By the time your opponent has enough damage to be pummeled without a grab release, they can just be KO'd with a back throw, so there's no point.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

I think they should make the endlag on fair lower. I think that would be a huge help for mega.

 

[Hyruleslink]

Buffs:
- Skull Barrier slightly faster activation.
- Down Smash: either give it a fire type hitbox or less ending lag. As is, this move is near worthless.
- Ice Slasher goes a little further.
- Shadow Blade needs significant buff in damage.

Nerfs:
- Fix the double Danger Wrap glitch.

Neutral:
- Hyper Bomb explodes upon impact. Non-catchable. Explosion can hurt Mega Man in the same manner Link's bomb does to Link.
- Leaf Shield provides better protection, less attack power.
- Hard Knuckle stops Mega Man in midair always, just not at the height of the jump. Move reliability increases as does punishment for a miss.

 

[Knight Dude]

I guess if there's seriously, one major thing that needs buffing in Mega Man's playstyle, it's that he needs more speed for his attacks. By no means is he a bad character. Overall, he's very solid, with a bit of learning curve. He's got the power and projectile pressure you'd expect from Mega Man. But certain moves being faster would really help. I think his Flame Sword, Slide Kick and Pummel are the three moves that would really benefit from this the most. As would his Down Smash.

And like I said before, Having the Crash Bombs explode on contact with a shield, would be nice too.

 

[Skailler]

Just gonna bump this... If any of this is out of place or just bad, have mercy. Im pretty new to Mega Man to be honest^^ Which is also why Im not including Customs.

Buffs:

* Fair always autocancels on shorthop
* DSmash has hitboxes that linger longer and cover Mega slightly better
* FSmash has a tad less lag both on startup and cooldown
* DTilt can be jumped out of at the very first few frames, keeping the momentum
* Crash Bomb explodes on shield like it does on Luma
* Crash Bomb now KOs reliably Mario on the ledge at 140% or so, making it more risky and rewarding at the same time
* Crash Bomb does not harm Mega if he isnt stickied

Neutral:

* Metal Blade always disappears on the third contact with a surface
(*Slightly longer jumpsquat - is it just me/my controller layout or is it that hard to SH Lemon constantly?)

Nerfs;

* DTilt has a bit more ending lag
* Dair has a bit more landing lag
* Rush Coil has a bit more landing lag unless Lemon Cancelled (is that the official term?)
* Crash Bomb covers slightly less range in exchange for the increased Shield Pressure and KO potential


Thats pretty much all I can think of right now. Thoughts?

 

[Sorichuudo]

Skailler I don't know about those ideas for nerfs, i mean Dtilt and Crash Bomb would be fair considering the buffs we would trade for it, but Uair and Dair really don't need more landing lag, specially Uair, that would ruin one of our best tools.

Also Rush has enough landing lag as it is, if you don't lemon drop(i'm all for making this a term :D) it leaves quite an opening, combining that + no hitbox+ poor horizontal range that is only not terrible cause we can save our DJ, Rush Coil is pretty balanced as it is.

 

[Skailler]

Sorichuudo Is Uair that good? It always felt lacking to me, but youre the expert I guess... Just shows how "good" I am so far. About Rush, is there a reason to not Lemon Drop? Considering that you can get a lagless landing and throw out projectiles after an Up B, that doesnt seem too much of an issue to me unless Lemon Drop gets removed. I imagined it kinda working as a punish for messing up the Lemon Drop, and I kinda doubt that would make the Rush Coil lass balanced.

 

[Sorichuudo]

Sorichuudo Is Uair that good? It always felt lacking to me, but youre the expert I guess... Just shows how "good" I am so far. About Rush, is there a reason to not Lemon Drop? Considering that you can get a lagless landing and throw out projectiles after an Up B, that doesnt seem too much of an issue to me unless Lemon Drop gets removed. I imagined it kinda working as a punish for messing up the Lemon Drop, and I kinda doubt that would make the Rush Coil lass balanced.

Dude, im The weakest megaman here lol
Is just that uair is that good.
It is slightly safe on shield if you land behind your opponnent, and it is great for pressuring people on plataforms, more lag on it would ruin that

 

[Skailler]

I think you just lost that title... But you convinced me about the Uair part. Gonna edit that I guess...

 

[UmbreonMageBrando]

I feel like Rock could benefit from the following changes.

Buffs:
3 Frames of landing lag shaved off of Fair and Bair.

2-3 frames of decreased startup on Fair.

decreased end lag on DTilt by 2 frames.

decreased end lag on UpSmash by 3-4 frames.

To be honest I feel like Rock should have been able to angle his crash bomb diagonally downward when in the air like how crash man does in MM2 to act as a land mine which could result in more creative usage of the crash bomb.

 

[Unclesatan]

I say that if he had more kill options, he'd be borderline broken and I don't want that for Mega. Give him landing lag reduction on Fair, and give him far more BKB to his dtilt, so that it's actually useful to use at low percents. I feel like this would help him tremendously in dealing with rushdown characters (Fair already helps him in the Mario matchup alot), because right now dtilt is more of an eject button rather than a good option for combos/spacing, and fair is only useful if you space it perfectly lest you get punished.

Less landing lag on fair would fix having to be perfect with spacing the move, thus increasing it's usefulness ten-fold in my eyes.

More BKB on dtilt allowing it to shine in the early game as well as have a somewhat more subtle bonus to kill potential.

Granted if they buffed dsmash or fsmash I wouldn't complain.....

 

[Mega-Spider]

I'm not the biggest expert on frame data, so here's what I would change to Megs:
Give Fair less landing lag
Make Dair come out earlier
Give Fsmash less ending lag
Give Dtilt more BKB
Increase damage given from Usmash and less ending lag

I wouldn't mind a Dsmash buff, but seeing as how that's one of the strongest Dsmashes in the game, the only thing I would want changed is for there not to be a sourspot. I just want it to hit, and that's it. I think Megs is a great character already, but those slight improvements could make him better. Also, he has some great customs, and I would like to see Shadow Blade either be reworked to be more beneficial, come out a lot faster, or if you're going to have it come out the same way, I'd say make it do some damage, maybe 8% at least.

 

[Greward]

Just buff dsmash to make it useful beyond a broken shield scenario. The move is too bad atm.
Fsmash could use a buff too in projectile speed or start up so it can hit reliably. End lag on smashes would be nice but Mega Man's smashes are meant to have insane amounts on end lag.

 

[upsydwnsqr]

Manual Detonation for Crash bomb and he's solid. Or just faster detonation. Crash bomb as it stands has no real impact.

 

[Sleek Media]

There are some nice ideas here, but Mega Man only needs one thing to compete with top tier without overwhelming the rest of the cast:

Bring back Rush Cancel.

As it is, Mega loses the damage race badly against characters with any sort of speed or combo game. RC forces combo characters to repeatedly engage Mega for small bits of damage the same way he has to. At the same time, heavy hard hitting characters won't have new disadvantages, and can potentially counter Mega. It would help to create a much needed class balance in this game. Speed completely dominates the meta.

 

[upsydwnsqr]

There are some nice ideas here, but Mega Man only needs one thing to compete with top tier without overwhelming the rest of the cast:

Bring back Rush Cancel.

As it is, Mega loses the damage race badly against characters with any sort of speed or combo game. RC forces combo characters to repeatedly engage Mega for small bits of damage the same way he has to. At the same time, heavy hard hitting characters won't have new disadvantages, and can potentially counter Mega. It would help to create a much needed class balance in this game. Speed completely dominates the meta.

Actually Rush Cancel would break Mega Man. We have Rush escape which is more than enough to escape some combos/Kill confirms such as shiek downthrow and as of recently bowsers stuff, for example.

Megaman can be surprisingly fast with a metal blade in hand. His problem isn't speed, his problem is crash bomb and F smash. F smash should have 55-60 FAF instead of his abyssmal 70 FAF. His crash bomb has to be completely redone. Fix its hit box inconsistencies, make it explode faster, make it not give damage and/or knockback to megaman, make it move faster, perhaps 2 crashbombs, perhaps manual detonation (like snakes Down B in brawl/PM?). Something needs to change about it. Other than that, Mega is fine. Though a nicer window for auto canceling Fair would be nice but not necessary.

 

[Sleek Media]

The reason I stopped posting here is because I don't care to waste time arguing theorycraft, and this board is saturated with it. If you don't understand my reasoning, then go out and play some tournament sets against power ranked players. After you've challenged players like Boss and Kenny, come back and we'll have a real discussion on Mega Man's defensive problems.

I would add that it's very bad form to quote a post and act like some kind of authority in an idea thread like this.

 

[upsydwnsqr]

The reason I stopped posting here is because I don't care to waste time arguing theorycraft, and this board is saturated with it. If you don't understand my reasoning, then go out and play some tournament sets against power ranked players. After you've challenged players like Boss and Kenny, come back and we'll have a real discussion on Mega Man's defensive problems.

I would add that it's very bad form to quote a post and act like some kind of authority in an idea thread like this.

I mean, I do play in tournaments. I live in AZ and go against really good players here. I never meant to imply an authority but it is an idea thread and from experience with rush cancel, although id love it back, it is broken. Mess up? rush cancel. Don't know the matchup? Rush cancel. Its not healthy for the game and not healthy for the Mega Meta.

 

[Sleek Media]

Lots of characters have a free combo breaker. Ever play Luigi or anyone else with a fast nAir? Lots of other characters have a "get back to neutral for free" special, which also serves as an attack (Diddy), combo starter (Pika, Fox), or finisher (Shiek, ZSS). While they don't act out of hitstun, their move does what I am proposing, while ALSO functioning as an offensive too. There's a good reason that all those characters are A/S tier. Yes, Shiek's ability to chew on the A button an get reward is powerful, but it's the fact that she never has to play in a disadvantaged state for more than a second which makes her top tier. Same with the others I listed. Being able to return to neutral is HUGE, and it easily outweighs offensive power. Rush Cancel doesn't even let you direct it like the moves of the characters above. In fact, using Rush puts you in a disadvantaged position. It wouldn't break Mega Man, it would just prevent him from getting 0-60'd or confirm killed, which are things he can't do to his opponent either. If you just pick random moves that seem underwhelming and power them up, all you will accomplish is making his MUs against uncompetitive characters very positive while still losing horribly to the characters that he loses to now. That's all I'm saying on the matter. I'm out.

 

[Knight Dude]

Having played more recently, I think I'd personally make Flame Sword slightly faster and have less landing lag. I'd also make the Slide faster as well. Their damage output is fine though. Make the Charge shot have less cool down, I find that to be the only problem I have when using it.

Having Crash Bomb explode on contact seems good on paper, but I wonder how much that will change any shield breaking tech, and if those changes would be for the better.

 

[Sorichuudo]

Having Crash Bomb explode on contact seems good on paper, but I wonder how much that will change any shield breaking tech, and if those changes would be for the better.

I think the other person said that crash bomb should explode when hitting shields.

But, honestly, you only get a shield break with CB if your opponent is sleeping on the job.

 

[CopShowGuy]

You'd be able to keep up some pretty nasty shield pressure if Crash Bomb exploded on shields. Remember how fast you can fire them when they do explode on contact like on Luma/Villager trees/ROB Gyros? Suddenly Crash Bomb would become too strong of a close range tool because you can fire one while the previous one is still exploding.

 

[PseudoPac]

Crash bomb could really use a buff. While the explosion on shield is interesting and would be cool, I would much rather them just decrease the start-up lag by maybe 4-6 frames. There are so many possibilities that come with a stuck crash bomb I wish I could take advantage of but can't. There is just no reason for it to be slower than the average smash attack.

 

[uncaDon]

Actually if the aim of the changes is to make the character more fun and powerful:

1. Dsmash and fsmash endlag reduced to make them more useful, its stupid how dsmash is punishable even when it hits until your enemy is at high %, making pivot fsmash safer would be great. Could add windbox/later poke hitbox to dsmash instead of making it less committal.
2. F-air landing lag reduction, should be safer in neutral and on shield. Megaman doesn't HAVE to be built around only shooting lemons in neutral. And fair>dtilt would be a good reward for landing it at low %.
3. Possibly increase KBG on F-air slightly so it can be used as a more consistent offstage/ledge kill at +100%
4. Would also like to see less endlag on crash bomber so it's easier to use it as a mixup
5. And maybe change dtilt angle to be more similar to cloud's so you put enemy above you forcing them to 50-50 or jump

Megaman is fine though, more balanced than most characters in the game. But if I wanted to see him climb the tier list I'd want these changes.

I actually think Megaman is a contender for unchanged character in the february patch. Sakurai and the team seem to think he is in a good spot...

 

[nedskii-]

I would give about 2-3 frames of less start up lag on megaman's up smash. i feel that's not asking for much and a huge difference.

 

[Megamang]

Whoever asked for more jumpsquat frames... no, no no no no no. That would hurt his mobility so bad since he is leaving the ground often while doing lemon pressure.

Crash bomb exploding faster also hurts follow up potential, in some scenarios. In others, it would help.

I agree that megaman is a balanced character. I really enjoy playing him and don't feel like he needs any changes.

In terms of fixing his bad MUs: Pellets should stop needles. They are energy blasts, and somehow a needle thrown quickly goes right through them. This is a property of needles, not pellets. For other bad MU's, I agree that a faster pummel would go a long way, both in dealing damage and in refreshing the moves we need most. When given the chance, im gonna land a bair, but there are times when I really need it to be fresh. With fox, I simply grab someone and pummel them 7 times in the blink of an eye, shoot a laser, and im fine. To be fair though, mega has high damaging throws and leaf pummel, so I understand why they don't want him to be pummeling for 20 damage on top of all that.


Not my most articulate post, more like a stream of conscious style rant about how mega is fine, its just the characters that beat him are a little silly. He can have losing MUs, but currently I need a secondary for shiek and mario, and that hurts my feelings,

 

[Unclesatan]

after contemplating it for a while, what greward said about rush cancelling being literally all megaman needs to be absolutely viable.

think about it.. all his bad matchups are rushdown characters with easy combo starters / kill confirms. if used properly it could make all those matchups alot more even. doubtful that nintendo would put a glitch back in, but we can all hope

 

[Sorichuudo]

And no changes again. Lets Just accept that Mega will never get The buffs he needs, as usual: "at least we didnt get nerfed".

But good news, Sheik has been nerfed: Her weight was decreased... Very slightly... Lmao how will this help anyone that doesnt have a hoohaa or some other jank that kills off the top is beyond me.

 

[---]

Oh well. Maybe next patch/game? -_-

At least some of our harder matches technically got easier this patch.

 

[nedskii-]

They will never buff him. customs seriously ruined smash 4 and the balancing

 

[Greward]

hey guys don't worry
at least we're better than jigglypuff

 

[Mega-Spider]

hey guys don't worry
at least we're better than jigglypuff

Wow, way to sell Megs short. The updates this time felt... random, and apart from Marth and Lucina getting a couple of things, not much was changed. Besides, we don't know if there will be any balance updates in the future.

 

[Sorichuudo]

Wow, way to sell Megs short. The updates this time felt... random, and apart from Marth and Lucina getting a couple of things, not much was changed. Besides, we don't know if there will be any balance updates in the future.

Well, i know Roy got a bunch of landing lag buffs, ZSS and Rosa also got a weight reduction(hahahahaha)but other than that, nothing much.
Oh, Bowser got a nerf on his uthrow, says it wont connect to uair after 100%, but that doesnt mean much given most charaters die under that, and rage is still a thing.

 

[Mega-Spider]

Well, i know Roy got a bunch of landing lag buffs, ZSS and Rosa also got a weight reduction(hahahahaha)but other than that, nothing much.
Oh, Bowser got a nerf on his uthrow, says it wont connect to uair after 100%, but that doesnt mean much given most charaters die under that, and rage is still a thing.

I see. What got me personally upset is how pessimistic you guys are about patch updates. Yes, we usually don't get anything so we're safe from being nerfed, but responding with a knee-jerk "At least we didn't get nerfed," is selling the character short. Besides, it's not like Megs is a low tier character. He's mid tier at most currently, but that's not a bad place to be. Not every character has to be top tier to be considered good, y'know. I know that's common sense, but it seems like you guys get overly pessimistic about these things.

 

[Sorichuudo]

I see. What got me personally upset is how pessimistic you guys are about patch updates. Yes, we usually don't get anything so we're safe from being nerfed, but responding with a knee-jerk "At least we didn't get nerfed," is selling the character short. Besides, it's not like Megs is a low tier character. He's mid tier at most currently, but that's not a bad place to be. Not every character has to be top tier to be considered good, y'know. I know that's common sense, but it seems like you guys get overly pessimistic about these things.

Dude, after all this patches, all we got was leafshield actually working how it should have in the first place. We are not asking for much here, less cooldown in one of our smashes or more kill power in them to make up for the absurd lag, less landing lag on either fair or bair, anything, just one buff would make him a better character.
I said it a lot of times, i aint dropping him, and i am fine with him being mid tier.
But with several patches giving him "nothing and liking it", is it that bad to be mildly upset that we cant get one little thing to help in most of our bad mus while the balancing team is busy reducing the weight of the top tiers?