If you were in charge of roster picking for an upcoming Smash!!

[FunAtParties]

Uh, quick question. What is the term "Dark Horse" supposed to mean?

I think it's something like an unknown underdog. Not really well known, and those who do know them don't think they have any chance.

 

[Koopaul]

Yup, I have a whole stable of Dark Horses.

 

[SimonBarSinister]

I think it's something like an unknown underdog. Not really well known, and those who do know them don't think they have any chance.

How many characters can that type of logic really apply to? I can think of a few characters who were a bit unexpected, but I don't know what others think.

 

[FunAtParties]

How many characters can that type of logic really apply to? I can think of a few characters who were a bit unexpected, but I don't know what others think.

As pertaining to characters that actually made it in or what?

As far as characters that actually made it in, I'd say Wii Fit Trainer, Robin, and Greninja count, at least by my poor definition. Not a whole lot of people knew OR expected them, so I'd say they're all pretty good examples of "dark horses".

As for DLC, I think the majority of characters fit the word pretty well. Not many characters are thought to have any real kind of chance, and outside of the dedicated community how many of these characters are exactly "well known"? Tons of dark horses out there.

As I think about it though, I'm starting to think that dark horse is just another phrase for underdog. I don't think either of them have to be relatively unknown like I previously stated; I think that, as long as the odds are against them, they're a pretty much "dark horse".

Excuse me while I Google this.

 

[SimonBarSinister]

As pertaining to characters that actually made it in or what?

As far as characters that actually made it in, I'd say Wii Fit Trainer, Robin, and Greninja count, at least by my poor definition. Not a whole lot of people knew OR expected them, so I'd say they're all pretty good examples of "dark horses".

As for DLC, I think the majority of characters fit the word pretty well. Not many characters are thought to have any real kind of chance, and outside of the dedicated community how many of these characters are exactly "well known"? Tons of dark horses out there.

As I think about it though, I'm starting to think that dark horse is just another phrase for underdog. I don't think either of them have to be relatively unknown like I previously stated; I think that, as long as the odds are against them, they're a pretty much "dark horse".

Excuse me while I Google this.

Any character in the current roster. You noted a few already, and I'd be willing to add Shulk to that list. As for possible newcomers, you probably have the right of it, there are really only a handful of characters among the many ranks of them that might be relatively known.

 

[FunAtParties]

Any character in the current roster. You noted a few already, and I'd be willing to add Shulk to that list. As for possible newcomers, you probably have the right of it, there are really only a handful of characters among the many ranks of them that might be relatively known.

I was considering adding Shulk, but I don't think Shulk was all that unlikely. Even outside of the Gematsu leak, he was starting to get a following, and he just came from a game that was a pretty big deal. I think he was a pretty likely choice, all in all.

Anyway, the wikipedia definition:
"A dark horse is a little-known person or thing that emerges to prominence, especially in a competition of some sort or a contestant that seems unlikely to succeed."

They also mentioned that it was coined by gamblers for horses that there was little known about, thus making them hard to know what they're chance really were, so I think I will stand by my first definition after all.

 

[SimonBarSinister]

I was considering adding Shulk, but I don't think Shulk was all that unlikely. Even outside of the Gematsu leak, he was starting to get a following, and he just came from a game that was a pretty big deal. I think he was a pretty likely choice, all in all.

Anyway, the wikipedia definition:
"A dark horse is a little-known person or thing that emerges to prominence, especially in a competition of some sort or a contestant that seems unlikely to succeed."

They also mentioned that it was coined by gamblers for horses that there was little known about, thus making them hard to know what they're chance really were, so I think I will stand by my first definition after all.

Shulk seems more like a one-off character. I mean, how likely is it that we will ever see him again in the Xenoblade series, or Smash for that matter? Well, I suppose he is a very unique character, which is something Sakurai looks for when determining roster eligibility, so I guess there's always that chance of him making a return.

 

[FunAtParties]

Shulk seems more like a one-off character. I mean, how likely is it that we will ever see him again in the Xenoblade series, or Smash for that matter? Well, I suppose he is a very unique character, which is something Sakurai looks for when determining roster eligibility, so I guess there's always that chance of him making a return.

Now how seems like a one-off character because of all the XCX info we've gotten, but not too long ago he seemed like an integral part of a new, important franchise. I guess he could of still been considered a dark horse, but I think there was enough known about him to have a decent understanding of his chances. Same can't be said for a character like WFT who, despite being part of one of the biggest Nintendo franchises in terms of sales all time, was relatively unknown during the beginnings of Smash 4's speculation.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Shulk seems more like a one-off character. I mean, how likely is it that we will ever see him again in the Xenoblade series, or Smash for that matter? Well, I suppose he is a very unique character, which is something Sakurai looks for when determining roster eligibility, so I guess there's always that chance of him making a return.

Marth???

 

[SimonBarSinister]

Marth???

Hasn't Marth made multiple appearances in his series? Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[FunAtParties]

Hasn't Marth made multiple appearances in his series? Correct me if I'm wrong.

He has, either way he's pretty much the series' main protagonist (or at least the first one (legacy character)), and that counts for something. Then again, so is Shulk so....

 

[Troykv]

Hasn't Marth made multiple appearances in his series? Correct me if I'm wrong.

He is the main character in two games (Dark Dragon and Sword Light and Mystery of Emblem), their respective remakes (Shadow Dragon/New Dark Dragon [...] and New Mystery of Emblem) and make cameos in Awakening with the "Marth" thing, the Spotpass Character and the DLCs.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Hasn't Marth made multiple appearances in his series? Correct me if I'm wrong.

He's had 2 appearances only, not counting remakes and was added to and kept in smash despite there being newer and more relevant lords, hes pretty comparable to Shulk

 

[TikiFan]

Here's my roster....

 

[Kenith]

View attachment 75829
Here's my roster....

Spoiler

Yes:
Paper Mario
- Young Link
- Ashley
- Inkling
- Octoling
- Excitebike
- DKC represent
- Anna / Tiki
- SAMI
- Midna

No:
- Andy
- Magnus
- Wonder Red
- Three Yokai Watch characters? (one is a stretch imo)

Overall the good here def. outweighs the bad.
Still...don't get the Yokai Watch characters...

My turn!

Notes:
- Ganondorf is decloned
- Pit and Dark Pit share a new FS: Daybreak. Their victory poses are different, taunts are the same, but also new
- Lucina is now a semi-clone, a Great Lord that uses skills from Awakening and throws javelins
- Impa and Sheik are alts of each other

Again, I put a lot of thought into these, so ask me a question about a choice or character and I will answer.
One at a time tho...

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

Spoiler

Yes:
Paper Mario
- Young Link
- Ashley
- Inkling
- Octoling
- Excitebike
- DKC represent
- Anna / Tiki
- SAMI
- Midna

No:
- Andy
- Magnus
- Wonder Red
- Three Yokai Watch characters? (one is a stretch imo)

Overall the good here def. outweighs the bad.
Still...don't get the Yokai Watch characters...

My turn!
View attachment 75831

Notes:
- Ganondorf is decloned
- Pit and Dark Pit share a new FS: Daybreak. Their victory poses are different, taunts are the same, but also new
- Lucina is now a semi-clone, a Great Lord that uses skills from Awakening and throws javelins

Again, I put a lot of thought into these, so ask me a question about a choice or character and I will answer.
One at a time tho...

One question. Are Sheik and Impa alts or transformations of each other, or do they share a slot for other reason?

 

[Autumn ♫]

Spoiler

Again, I put a lot of thought into these, so ask me a question about a choice or character and I will answer.
One at a time tho...

Spoiler

Impa and Shiek confuse me. Who's the playable one, or are they both playable like how Ice Climbers were?

View attachment 75829
Here's my roster....

Interesting roster, a few nitpicks from me, but the only major thing is Yokai Watch.
Why Young Link instead of Toon Link, though?

 

[Kenith]

One question. Are Sheik and Impa alts or transformations of each other, or do they share a slot for other reason?

Impa and Shiek confuse me. Who's the playable one, or are they both playable like how Ice Climbers were?

Whoops.
I fixed it. They are alts, yes.
They're both equally playable.

 

[Burruni]

Spoiler

Yes:
Paper Mario
- Young Link
- Ashley
- Inkling
- Octoling
- Excitebike
- DKC represent
- Anna / Tiki
- SAMI
- Midna

No:
- Andy
- Magnus
- Wonder Red
- Three Yokai Watch characters? (one is a stretch imo)

Overall the good here def. outweighs the bad.
Still...don't get the Yokai Watch characters...

My turn!
View attachment 75831

Notes:
- Ganondorf is decloned
- Pit and Dark Pit share a new FS: Daybreak. Their victory poses are different, taunts are the same, but also new
- Lucina is now a semi-clone, a Great Lord that uses skills from Awakening and throws javelins
- Impa and Sheik are alts of each other

Again, I put a lot of thought into these, so ask me a question about a choice or character and I will answer.
One at a time tho...

1) No kind of expansion for Pokemon or Fire Emblem?
2) ... Skull Kid over Ganon?
3) Your grounds against Bandana Dee

 

[Kenith]

1) No kind of expansion for Pokemon or Fire Emblem?

No way to know which characters are going to be popular or relevant in the future, so I went with who's relevant now (although calling Roy relevant is a stretch)
I didn't want to have placeholders.

2) ... Skull Kid over Ganon?

Ganon is in. Ganondorf's moveset uses a trident, and he turns into pig Ganon for his Final Smash.

3) Your grounds against Bandana Dee

ahahahahahaha
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

 

[Burruni]

No way to know which characters are going to be popular or relevant in the future, so I went with who's relevant now (although calling Roy relevant is a stretch)
I didn't want to have placeholders.

Ganon is in. Ganondorf's moveset uses a trident, and he turns into pig Ganon for his Final Smash.

ahahahahahaha
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

1) Understood.
2) My bad. Didn't know your idea of him decloned.
3) ....Okay. I'mma sit here with my spear.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Dark Matter's better than Bandanna Dee anyways, and my opinion is always right.

 

[Burruni]

Dark Matter's better than Bandanna Dee anyways, and my opinion is always right.

How's that Vaati treatin' ya?

 

[Kenith]

I like FE where it is, FYI.
I think at least Marth, Ike, and Lucina will stay popular for a long time
Lucina being her own character makes up for no newcomer, I guess. It does for me at least.

I choose Skull Kid because I played Majora's Mask recently and it was great and it doesn't have representation in Smash.
Though honestly I like Young Link better :y

I could add a Pokemon character, but who? I'd have to add a placeholder as a new Pokemon will probably come from Gen 7 or whatever. Otherwise, I'd obviously pick Weavile.

I'm amazed no one has questioned the third parties.

I also feel it's apparent this roster is catered to my tastes. And I hold my tastes in high regard.
However, they do change, so I will be revising it soon.

 

[Autumn ♫]

How's that Vaati treatin' ya?

Same old, same old. He's been in a better mood lately thanks to his chances in HW shooting up.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

I would post my new roster, but since the only change would be the addition of (Classic) Ganon to "Biased" roster, I don't see the point.

 

[Autumn ♫]

I like FE where it is, FYI.
I think at least Marth, Ike, and Lucina will stay popular for a long time
Lucina being her own character makes up for no newcomer, I guess. It does for me at least.

I choose Skull Kid because I played Majora's Mask recently and it was great and it doesn't have representation in Smash.
Though honestly I like Young Link better :y

I could add a Pokemon character, but who? I'd have to add a placeholder as a new Pokemon will probably come from Gen 7 or whatever. Otherwise, I'd obviously pick Weavile.

I'm amazed no one has questioned the third parties.

I also feel it's apparent this roster is catered to my tastes. And I hold my tastes in high regard.
However, they do change, so I will be revising it soon.

Only change I see needed to FE is adding Anna as playable and Tiki as an Assist, then it'd have perfect representation in my eyes.

Meowth would also be a good non-placeholder Pokemon, imo.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with your 3rd parties. I only find Snake unlikely, and that's because of how Konami's been acting as of late.

 

[TikiFan]

Spoiler

Yes:
Paper Mario
- Young Link
- Ashley
- Inkling
- Octoling
- Excitebike
- DKC represent
- Anna / Tiki
- SAMI
- Midna

No:
- Andy
- Magnus
- Wonder Red
- Three Yokai Watch characters? (one is a stretch imo)

Overall the good here def. outweighs the bad.
Still...don't get the Yokai Watch characters...
QUOTE]

I thought Level-5 is second-party and have therefore added multiple YW characters. This is apparently not the case.If one Advance Wars-character is an alt? Is that good?[/

 

[DutchPichu]

1 can get it that at least 1 Yo-Kai Watch character is joining the battle in the next Smash, to be honest, but three?

 

[TikiFan]

1 can get it that at least 1 Yo-Kai Watch character is joining the battle in the next Smash, to be honest, but three?

The Yokai Watch is the new Pokémon (in Japan anyway). But now I know that YW is third-party, there will be one or even no character from YW in the roster.

 

[Megadoomer]

View attachment 75829
Here's my roster....

I'd be fine with it for the most part, (decent mix of additions for both new and returning series, balanced out the characters among returning series well instead of adding a bunch of characters for a few series and none for the rest) but my biggest gripe is the removal of all third party characters. In particular, cutting Sonic seems like a strange choice.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

I'd be fine with it for the most part, (decent mix of additions for both new and returning series, balanced out the characters among returning series well instead of adding a bunch of characters for a few series and none for the rest) but my biggest gripe is the removal of all third party characters. In particular, cutting Sonic seems like a strange choice.

Well, at least there's three Yo-Kai Watch characters to compensate.

 

[TikiFan]

I'd be fine with it for the most part, (decent mix of additions for both new and returning series, balanced out the characters among returning series well instead of adding a bunch of characters for a few series and none for the rest) but my biggest gripe is the removal of all third party characters. In particular, cutting Sonic seems like a strange choice.

I've never been a fan of third-party characters. I do not use them. Sonic has many bad titles to his name. Mega Man has now only a few smaller games. Pac-Man is not known due to Nintendo. Ryu has (except a remake) no more titles on a Nintendo console.
Snake has only some mediocre selling games on a Nintendo console.

That is my opinion.

 

[Blue_Sword_Edge]

Spoiler

Yes:
Paper Mario
- Young Link
- Ashley
- Inkling
- Octoling
- Excitebike
- DKC represent
- Anna / Tiki
- SAMI
- Midna

No:
- Andy
- Magnus
- Wonder Red
- Three Yokai Watch characters? (one is a stretch imo)

Overall the good here def. outweighs the bad.
Still...don't get the Yokai Watch characters...

My turn!
View attachment 75831

Notes:
- Ganondorf is decloned
- Pit and Dark Pit share a new FS: Daybreak. Their victory poses are different, taunts are the same, but also new
- Lucina is now a semi-clone, a Great Lord that uses skills from Awakening and throws javelins
- Impa and Sheik are alts of each other

Again, I put a lot of thought into these, so ask me a question about a choice or character and I will answer.
One at a time tho...

Overall, I would play your dream roster were it part of a real game. Why did you choose a Toad for your roster? I'd like to know since Peach has one as a counter.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

View attachment 75829
Here's my roster....

So many questionable inclusions... I mean, a few in a game are fine, but... still, why so many? Not to mention this roster makes Ridley look puny. And that's only going to result in a bad metagame.

 

[Kenith]

Overall, I would play your dream roster were it part of a real game. Why did you choose a Toad for your roster? I'd like to know since Peach has one as a counter.

Toad isn't a counter for Peach here - that role is taken by Toadsworth.
Toad here uses a moveset inspired by different spin-off series.

 

[FunAtParties]

Toad isn't a counter for Peach here - that role is taken by Toadsworth.
Toad here uses a moveset inspired by different spin-off series.

Why not just have her blow a powder (like a kiss) for her counter eliminating the whole Toad thing altogether with. I think it'd fit her character better, and it wouldn't change the actual effect of the attack so all would be good.

 

[Kenith]

Why not just have her blow a powder (like a kiss) for her counter eliminating the whole Toad thing altogether with. I think it'd fit her character better, and it wouldn't change the actual effect of the attack so all would be good.

That seems bizarre and impractical...Toadsworth works better imo.

 

[FunAtParties]

That seems bizarre and impractical...Toadsworth works better imo.

More bizarre then pulling a random person out of nowhere and making him spray a random gas when danger calls?

Okay...

 

[Burruni]

More bizarre then pulling a random person out of nowhere and making him spray a random gas when danger calls?

Okay...

The toads defensively and instinctively release out spores when struck, like the Toadstool subspecies of actual fungi.
The idea of Peach pulling a Toad out of hammerspace, much like her Sand Wedge, Frying Pan, and Tennis Racket for this is more reasonable for Smash than her just not being harmed by the hit and blowing a kiss that somehow counters the damage.