If, Then! : How to fight MK with Marth, A situational Guide

[Paradigm]

This latest addition has been very helpful for me. Thanks, Pierce.

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

Haha, thanks. And FAWK YOU SPAM. I just reread that guide. It's very good. Still, I might as well fill in more **** since you're *****ing.

DI away after any throw. If it was Dthrow, DI away and Fair with the Cstick. Never DI up, or you will get comboed.

Always challenge with juggle traps with Fair, save your double jump in the air and don't airdodge, because Nair is more painful than Uair, and if you airdodge, you will get Naired. FF Fair and Dancing Blade stall, along with b reversal shield breaker to try and escape juggle traps. Jump around on platforms until you can land safely on the ground. Airdodge outward and then weave in when afraid of getting hit by a Shuttle Loop Gimp.

Ledgejump is your best option from the ledge (not ledgehop, you don't want to get gimped out of your second jump, only use this if MK is open or you have room), but it should be mixed in with Standing a lot. If MK is standing very close to the edge then fall away Fair and then UpB. When recovering, drop low. If MK grabs the edge then Dancing Blade to stall, then UpB him off. If he doesn't, just quickly grab it with UpB. If MK hits your shield with Dsmash then Dancing Blade. If you DI to the top corner of the screen, one mindgame is to being charging shieldbreaker, but let it go before it's fully released, so the MK will try to intercept you in the air and Dair or Nair. Then since you won't propel forward, they already are flying high, and mindgame them by Fast Falling and UpBing to the edge.

Use a lot of empty SHs and Falling Fair when MK or his shield is in range. Mix up Dtilt, Jab, and Grab after Fair, but try to get Shuttle Looped out of shield. If MK dashes up and shields after you jumped then retreating Fair or airdodge back.

Try to control the center of the stage a lot, as you can score damage off of pushing MK to the edge and it's hard to land a kill with MK when you're opponent is in the center. If MK tries to ledgehop, you should be out of range for all aerials, so he will probably airdodge. Punish with Dancing Blade. Take an extra step back on Yoshi's, and never shield against MK at the edge. If he uses tornado then just counter, fsmash, or retreating Usmash. Fsmash a whiffed Fair if you're fast enough

If MK glides at you, periodically mix in jab. It should clash if done properly, or hit MK otherwise. This can give you a nice bit of frame advantage.

If MK is gliding towards the edge, from high or low, and you are on stage, just give him space. He has good options from here.

If MK is platform pressuring you, and uses Uairs or Nair, and peaks above the platform, Dolphin Slash, then fast fall and land quickly.

Use Bair in a juggle trap first, it's hitbox reaches exceptionally far and high. If it connects, good. If MK airdodges, then Uair will connect. This trap is very godly. Double Jump Uair will sometimes catch a Dair camping MK off guard (Uair outranges MKs Dair). Use Dancing Blade if you can punish an airdodge into the ground. If you can't, use a grab or a pivot grab.

If MK is going to land on a platform in front of you, jumping and charging Shieldbreaker is a good idea. He might shield, in which case you can damage or break it. It also covers a good deal of the platform while you approach, and it beats tornado. If he falls through the platform, you can just charge it and hit him when he hits the ground. This might be hard to understand without seeing it.

If you get into a combo, make sure you DI. Generally, you want to DI hard left or right, but against moves with heavy knockback when you're at higher percentages, you should DI Up and towards the stage. This is crucial, and will help you live forever.

If MK hits you with first hit of ftilt, DI Up and away. NEVER airdodge, some MKs try to then use Dsmash to punish. If you trip from a dtilt, roll twoards MK.

If you need a quick kill and MK is above 130 percent, don't forget frame 6 dsmash. Try not to guess with this move though, as it's very laggy. It's great for punishing a perfected shielded spot dodge, or pivot dsmash to punish a Dash attack that crossed up when you shielded or a whiffed grab after you spot dodge (which you shouldn't really have done, but it happens in the heat of the battle, and if you really called out that grab then there you go.

If MK is on a platform in front of you, ftilt. This is probably the only time to use ftilt unless you've got a clean tipper ftilt for the kill. Dsmash, jab, or Utilt cover most other things you'd want to ftilt for.

Mix in shield breaker intelligently, especially around 50%. Before using shieldbreaker, you should try to condition your opponents by minimizing grab usage.

Pay attention to the slopes you are landing on, always. They will either mess up your spacing, or aid it or aid your retreat or cross-up.

This has a lot of things that can get easily baited if you keep doing them over and over pierce lol

Some of the options you listed MK's are even looking for


there's been times where I've d-tilt tripped people and charged an f-smash

DIing away from D-throw everytime can get you grabbed again, or Mk will just up-b through your falling f-air


a lot of times there never is something you should ALWAYS do, otherwise you just geat read really easily. there's exceptions yes, but some of this is misleading

 

[Eazy23]

A large part of winning with Marth vs. MK is learning your opponent's patterns. Many know that I was able to beat Shadow last weekend. However, I failed to then defeat DmBrandon immediately afterwards. Part of the reason this is, is because DM and Shadow, as well as most of the MKs here, have their own preferences and play styles. MK can cope very easily with Marth's pressure unlike most characters. Furthermore, he has a plethora of options at his disposal. To win, I MUST recognize which options are favorable to the MK at hand, and then pick the correct punishment options. I need to know how MKs like to recover (M2k likes Dimension Cape, Shadow likes Tornado, Brandon likes Drill Rush, Inui favors Shuttle Loop.) I need to know who favors Nair when jumping out of shield, and who favors Dair. I need to know who will go for the greedy SL gimps (Shadow, Ksizzle, and DMBrandon) and who will not, so I can judge whether airdodging is necessary. I need to know who favors what sequences after dtilt, or ftilt, and when they like to grab. I need to know how they like to end tornado, so I can determine whether to chase, or to wait, or to upB, or any method of appropriate punishment. I need to know who likes to roll away, so I can chase, or who likes to spot dodge, so I can dancing blade, or who likes to roll behind me, so I can use tipper dsmash to end a stock, or use reverse Dancing Blade.

SOOOOOOO many habits and patterns to remember, makes it difficult to win in a disadvantageous match-up, but I have a powerful mind, and can do it. However, to FORGET everything about a MK I just defeated, and then wipe my mind to immediately adjust to a new top level MK in later rounds is EXTREMELY strenuous, exhausting, and fatiguing, not to mention just straight up difficult. For this reason, I now have learned to simply analyze my mental state. It is foolish to try and play at top speed and power, AND employ mindgames when I am tired and handicapped by false conditioning from previous matches.-Pierce7D



People have no clue how hard it is to main marth in New Jersey, that is except, you and I my friend.

 

[BacklashMarth]

A thread like this should exist for Snake as well IMO (and maybe a few other difficult marth matchups *none come to mind*).


"When knocked far from the stage and recovering, ALWAYS grab the ledge immediately, then:"<--- I understood what you meant after a 5min session of blank staring. Revise for clarity plz? Also, about the DI on MK's throws, cant you just DI up and away and watch your opponent to decide whether to commit to DI up? Usually if you see MK jump after the throw then hes going to fair and if MK dashes then hes going to try a shuttle loop, run into shield and wait, or try a nair. Once you see the jump you can just DI backwards and fair instead and if not them just DI up.

 

[Pierce7d]

This has a lot of things that can get easily baited if you keep doing them over and over pierce lol

Some of the options you listed MK's are even looking for


there's been times where I've d-tilt tripped people and charged an f-smash

DIing away from D-throw everytime can get you grabbed again, or Mk will just up-b through your falling f-air


a lot of times there never is something you should ALWAYS do, otherwise you just geat read really easily. there's exceptions yes, but some of this is misleading

As people grow into higher levels of play, they will naturally understand that mix-ups are a mandatory part of the game (I'm pretty sure I noted on that in the first post) and will come to learn patterns they like. For the time being, I have listed the most reliable options that will have the greatest chance of success. People will florish and develop their own style, but I cannot do that for them. What I can do is provide a very specific action pattern for fighting the match-up in it's basics. Sometimes, people need a little more boost than "Zone MK and punish his approaches and watch for Tornado and don't get gimped."

People have no clue how hard it is to main marth in New Jersey, that is except, you and I my friend.

Too true madu.

A thread like this should exist for Snake as well IMO (and maybe a few other difficult marth matchups *none come to mind*).


"When knocked far from the stage and recovering, ALWAYS grab the ledge immediately, then:"<--- I understood what you meant after a 5min session of blank staring. Revise for clarity plz? Also, about the DI on MK's throws, cant you just DI up and away and watch your opponent to decide whether to commit to DI up? Usually if you see MK jump after the throw then hes going to fair and if MK dashes then hes going to try a shuttle loop, run into shield and wait, or try a nair. Once you see the jump you can just DI backwards and fair instead and if not them just DI up.

I'll look for that and try to clarify.

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

You should just play the match 1000 times like me so you have an M2K universal works-vs-everyone-game xD


then if u start losing u add thinking

 

[BacklashMarth]

You should just play the match 1000 times like me so you have an M2K universal works-vs-everyone-game xD


then if u start losing u add thinking

You win without thinking? Are you sure you've been using Marth and not MK this whole time? Usually the MKs I face bait thinking and punish my reaction-time lag.

 

[Shaya]

There's no thinking if you are vsing a scrub MK. And neo is so goood, everyone who isn't m2k is a scrub MK to him... or something

It's more like you naturally start to play reasonably campy, passive and hope they're too scrubby to do the same thing back.

 

[Megavitamins]

Lol i'm glad I live in LI, there are like two good people who main MK here =)

 

[Pierce7d]

You should just play the match 1000 times like me so you have an M2K universal works-vs-everyone-game xD


then if u start losing u add thinking

Did you even read the OP? What do you think this thread is? I don't think when I pick these options, I just do it, and win.

 

[hippiedude92]

Hey, Pierce, I have a hard time which way to DI and what option and decision I should take if MK happens to dthrow me. Espically at 0%, if he DThrows you, he has like a mini tech chase and can just chase you with a Fair. So I wanted to know if you can make a pile of options for that situation when he dthrows you, because when a mk dthrows me, I happen to get ***** from there on =(

 

[Steel]

if you DI up he can combo with fair, most of the time I DI away and then jump away while still in the air, you should still mix it up though.

 

[VietGeek]

At 0% you can also DI down and tech. Most of the time MKs will directly position themselves to capitalize on another Dthrow or for an aerial. Most never expect you'd tech right through them.

However, again it's a mix-up game.