idk why this hasn't been made yet (BBR MU revision)

[phi1ny3]

I think it looks like all the other boards are doing edits/discussion on MUs recently, and I think we have a couple discrepancies coming up too that should be discussed. I think an appropriate format is to briefly list deviations from our current BBR MU ratios, then discuss why.

For reference:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=298484

 

[IceDX]

good idea.


i dont think we have that mutch of an advantage over sheik maybe 1 but not 2...

 

[Steam]

I think....

fox should be -2

Marth should be even

That's it pretty much. We had our matchups pretty spot on IMO

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

At this point in the metagame basing it off of the old + or - method... I feel...

S: Meta Knight -2
A: Diddy Kong 0, Snake -1, Falco +1
B: Marth 0, Wario 0, Ice Climbers 0, Olimar 0, Pikachu +1
C: Lucario lol Aura, King Dedede -2, Zero Suit Samus +1, Mr. Game & Watch +1, Toon Link +1
D: Fox 0, Wolf 0, Peach +2
E: Donkey Kong +1, Kirby +1, R.O.B. +1, Pit 0, Sonic +2
F: Ike +1, Sheik/Zelda +1, Luigi +1, Sheik +2, Ness +1, Yoshi +3, Pokémon Trainer +2
G: Lucas +1, Mario +1, Bowser +1, Samus +2, Captain Falcon +2
H: Link +3, Jigglypuff +2, Zelda +1, Ganondorf +3

MK is MK.

Falco I feel we beat even though the MU seems dead even; we still have better CPs than he does.

I could maybe see Marth being -1, but due to lack of CPs he can take us to and us being able to utilize just about any stage... Seems even to me.

King CGCGCG is King CGCGCG.

Pika is a MU I'm rather unsure about... I think if we camped more it might go back to +2, but we beat characters like Peach, Jiggs, much more solidly.

ZSS can't kill us until like 120%, read the Side Bs and the MU I feel is in our favor.

G&W guys, stop attacking his shield unless it is reduced a bit. His fighting style is still 2D.

TL we need to learn the friggin' Aura priority percents, guys. This MU becomes much easier if you do know stuff like at 104% fresh AS at equal stock beats any boomerang and arrow (for both Links).

Fox I wanna see Trela/junebug vs. TKD in tourney. Its really hard to say since there aren't many good Foxes out there, but definitely not a -2.

Peach is another MU where learning priority works wonders and you can force her into more stuff.

Donkey Kong if you can whittle his shield down just a bit it is so stupidly easy to approach and juggle him... If you get in his face.

R.O.B. BAir him in the air more. 2D fighting style.

 

[phi1ny3]

I feel personally feel the original list is good so far, I think mainly Olimar should be bumped to -1 (good killpower, hard to hard CP stagewise, frustrating), and G&W bumped to 0 (strong juggle game, good CPs on both ends, hard to land a kill move outside of fair on edgeguard, good oos/punish reactions for G&W).

@MTI: I can agree with TL being potentially favorable by a smidgeon, but agreeable as even to me as well. ZSS can still kill really well w/o sideB, she has a really good setup for her kill moves (sorta hard to land, but extremely safe dsmash), and her bair kills at like 90% and is safe on block

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

I feel personally feel the original list is good so far, I think mainly Olimar should be bumped to -1 (good killpower, hard to hard CP stagewise, frustrating), and G&W bumped to 0 (strong juggle game, good CPs on both ends, hard to land a kill move outside of fair on edgeguard, good oos/punish reactions for G&W).

@MTI: I can agree with TL being potentially favorable by a smidgeon, but agreeable as even to me as well. ZSS can still kill really well w/o sideB, she has a really good setup for her kill moves (sorta hard to land, but extremely safe dsmash), and her bair kills at like 90% and is safe on block

It won't kill you until at least 110% on neturals if you DI correctly. DI up and to the corner... How is that safe on block?

I wanna see your guys' numbers now and see how much they differ than before. When the time comes when they'll need it... well we're already done then. Its better than just letting some panel that we don't know about decide things for us.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Might wanna wait for the new one to come out before you jump on board this, because there will be changes.

 

[phi1ny3]

Oh, have you been suggesting ratios and whatnot to BBR?

@MTI, most of the time, it kills still very well nonetheless, and bair in many situations is safe unless they're having a horrible time spacing. Even so, it just takes uprooting lucario into the air or a dsmash and it's all ZSS needs. imo it's really even, but if anything I would say it's in ZSS' favor partially due to how the streak has been going in their favor and they do indeed trump very well in a lot of situations (AS is soooooo good in the MU though, so I personally can't see a clear-cut disadvantage against her).

 

[Steam]

the LBR can't help with the matchup chart this time? : (

don't let them screw us red.

also MTI why the hell do you have snake at only -1? 0_o

 

[culexus・wau]

I think we did before as far as LBR MU help went.

Spoiler

word on the street says there really are secret character MU panelmajigs going on right now, but you didn't hear it from me

anyways we all know my stance on numbers so I won't bother.

The only things I'd change from the BBR list [looking at it purely from + = we beat them and - = we lose to them]

I'd make G&W and Marth even, thats it. [I'm not too convinced in marth yet, but watching trela attentively, and playing marth a teensy bit more... I'm starting to think its even]

I'll address other opinions in this thread tomorrow

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'll tell more when it's all good and done.