Ideal Changes for Samus to become viable

[MOM Samus]

Nope we got screwed over

Fix'd.

 

[White_Pointer]

As a Samus main is frustrates me at times, because the character has potential but there's just some aspects that are holding her back. This is what I think should be done with Samus to make her more viable.

- First of all, fix her jabs so jab 1 and jab 2 can actually properly chain together. I can't believe this still isn't fixed after so many updates (10! at time of writing).

- Secondly, she needs a better recovery. I don't know how you can look at Samus' recovery, and then look at Zero Suit's recovery and think that things are remotely balanced. She needs to gain a little more height from using down b in the air, possibly by gaining more height if the bomb explodes on top of her, and she needs to enter into the invincibility frames the moment her tether recovery grabs the edge, not when her hands grab it (length of invincibility frames remains the same however). Her actual tether grab could stand to have a bit more range on it too, especially when you compare it to ZSS's tether recovery and the insane range that can work from (not to mention ZSS has many other recovery options).

- Her speed to weight just doesn't make any sense. She's slow and floaty, and that's not a good combination. She either needs to be heavier to match her speed, or faster to match her floatiness. This doesn't need to be a huge tweak, but it needs tweaking nonetheless. This is probably one of the biggest things that needs looking at.

- Increase her roll speed slightly and reduce the end lag on her roll slightly too.

- Her bombs need to explode when they make contact with an opponent. I don't care if that's not canon, they need to explode when they make contact with the opponent as this is one of the main tools she needs for dealing with fast characters and interrupting their movement.

- Her up smash was buffed in 1.08, which is nice, with a slightly bigger hitbox and better KO power...but it's still not quite good enough. Unless it's hit square on, the opponent can actually still fall out of it, which is pretty stupid. Nobody else with a multi hit up smash can have that happen. That needs to be fixed. The hitbox itself also needs tweaking so it can hit behind her and so it doesn't completely miss smaller characters.

- She desperately needs either a kill throw or a genuine kill setup off a throw (down throw to up b is the best she's got and that relies on your opponent reacting poorly). Not only because she's really lacking in genuine KO options in the first place, but also because her grab is close to the worst in the game, with huge end lag if it misses for little reward. Possibly her up throw could be a kill throw from around 140% because at the moment up throw is pretty useless.

- Speaking of genuine KO options, she needs more that are reliable. As it stands she's got her charge shot as her primary kill move, and then a bunch of secondary but not really reliable kill moves that pretty much all need to be sweet spotted to actually KO...fsmash, usmash, up b, bair, dair (spike), fair (near the blast zone). Utilt can kill at the ledge, and on centre stage utilt and dtilt both kill eventually but not at any meaningful percents. She needs some better and more threatening kill options, perhaps remove the sour spot from her fsmash, give her back air a larger hitbox, give her up b more priority, fix her up smash and give her a kill throw/kill setup off a throw as previously mentioned.

- Charge shot needs some changes. It's her primary kill move but so many of the cast can completely nullify it with either reflectors/similar moves like Villager's pocket, Rosa's gravity, Link's shield etc, or by clanging/beating it with their own projectiles (why the hell does a fully charged shot clang with Duck Hunt's clay pigeon? Why does it flat out lose to Ness' PK Fire?). I think that one of these changes needs to happen:

a) Option A is to allow the charge shot to be chargeable in the air and keep the rest of it the same.
b) Option B is if the charge shot is to remain chargeable on the ground only, then a fully charged shot should beat out almost any other projectile in the game (aside from other fully charged attacks like Lucario, Mewtwo and WFT) and not clang or lose to them.
c) Option C is to give Samus a way of reflecting a reflected charge shot back at the opponent, similar to how Mewtwo and Mii Gunner can. One way I can think of doing this is by giving her perfect shield a unique reflector property (kind of like how perfect shields worked in Melee) that only reflects a charge shot. Either that or just make a fully charged shot flat out unreflectable (ie it breaks the reflector).

- Lastly, her nair needs to come out much faster. Because she's so floaty, she needs it as a combo breaker. She doesn't necessarily need her old nair back (although that would be nice), it just needs to come out a lot faster. Her dair could have better priority on it and come out faster too because as it stands it's beaten out by pretty much any move the opponent can throw out. Both of these should be safe on shield too as she doesn't really have anything else that is (except I think short hop uair).

Overall I don't think these changes are too much to be asking for, and it will make Samus a much more viable character.

 

[KayJay]

http://smashboards.com/threads/ideal-changes-for-samus-to-become-viable.409754/page-3#post-19797860

 

[White_Pointer]

I think this thread is better because there's more reasoning here and more points of discussion Not biased or anything...

 

[Afro Smash]

Well no this could of just been a post in that other thread, this didn't need to be its own thread is the point

 

[KayJay]

Well no this could of just been a post in that other thread, this didn't need to be its own thread is the point

Exactly.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Merged Buffing Samus thread into a thread already discussing the topic.

 

[White_Pointer]

Wasn't sure what the rules were in regards to bumping threads as it has been a while since anyone has posted in this one.

 

[MOI-ARI]

Samus needs a One hit KO move in form of a taunt..yeah that. Balance. ^_^

 

[Hark17ball]

Just gonna keep grinding away and when a fix does come.....taking the restraints off and gonna tear everyone maliciously!

 

[BlackCephie]

Im reposting this from the "whats one change" thread because I truly do think that, moreso that just fixing her current design, a redesign is not only appropriate but warranted considering the fact that for 3 whole games now the only move thats changed has been neutral air, which was for worse and not better.

A complete redesign that includes-
1. An fsmash that iterrates plasma beam from the metroid games into a mid ranged chargeable oscillating burst that functions like mega mans fsmash.
2. A down b that replaces bomb with beam switch on neutral b to ice beam that results in less knockback than charge beam, but gives us a freeze.
3. Replace awful dsmash with power bomb drop that kills at reasonable percent.
4. I love dair, but she still needs bomb jump, so make dair the aerial down b bomb that we have now, but still spikes if bomb hits.
5. Replace jab with what is now fsmash, so that it functions similar to Ganons jab, with less knockback than current fsmash but is a single powerful blow with solid get-off-me knockback plus sets target on fire cuz that would be sweet.
6. Give her the Project M dodge, and make morphball a crawl, cuz it just makes sense.
7. Fix the rest of her janky moves like usmash, uair, and neutral air so that they hit more reliably.
6. Charge shot chargeable in air for goodness sake.
7. Reduce landing lag on all aerial projectiles. Even if the landing lag on aerial normals remained, this would reinforce the idea of her being a zoning character.

 

[krazyzyko]

Missiles should auto cancel on landing.
Bombs should explode on contact, samus should act out of bombs.
Down smash should be a kill move.
Melee's Nair would be nice.

 

[FlAlex]

Im reposting this from the "whats one change" thread because I truly do think that, moreso that just fixing her current design, a redesign is not only appropriate but warranted considering the fact that for 3 whole games now the only move thats changed has been neutral air, which was for worse and not better.

A complete redesign that includes-
1. An fsmash that iterrates plasma beam from the metroid games into a mid ranged chargeable oscillating burst that functions like mega mans fsmash.
2. A down b that replaces bomb with beam switch on neutral b to ice beam that results in less knockback than charge beam, but gives us a freeze.
3. Replace awful dsmash with power bomb drop that kills at reasonable percent.
4. I love dair, but she still needs bomb jump, so make dair the aerial down b bomb that we have now, but still spikes if bomb hits.
5. Replace jab with what is now fsmash, so that it functions similar to Ganons jab, with less knockback than current fsmash but is a single powerful blow with solid get-off-me knockback plus sets target on fire cuz that would be sweet.
6. Give her the Project M dodge, and make morphball a crawl, cuz it just makes sense.
7. Fix the rest of her janky moves like usmash, uair, and neutral air so that they hit more reliably.
6. Charge shot chargeable in air for goodness sake.
7. Reduce landing lag on all aerial projectiles. Even if the landing lag on aerial normals remained, this would reinforce the idea of her being a zoning character.

WOW. Those are some great ideas for a redesign. I especially like that down-smash idea. Like Solid Snake's in Brawl...

 

[shinhed-echi]

Im reposting this from the "whats one change" thread because I truly do think that, moreso that just fixing her current design, a redesign is not only appropriate but warranted considering the fact that for 3 whole games now the only move thats changed has been neutral air, which was for worse and not better.


5. Replace jab with what is now fsmash, so that it functions similar to Ganons jab, with less knockback than current fsmash but is a single powerful blow with solid get-off-me knockback plus sets target on fire cuz that would be sweet.

I like them all, but this one's my favorite. Don't know why nobody thought of this before. :O

I fantasized with this idea back in Project M.

Basically, to keep Fair and Usmash intact, but make them shoot small plasma bursts (even if they deal 1-2%).
I know this doesn't fix the rest of the character, but it'd be awesome for her to rely more on her shooting the arm-cannon.

 

[Vyrnx]

Im reposting this from the "whats one change" thread because I truly do think that, moreso that just fixing her current design, a redesign is not only appropriate but warranted considering the fact that for 3 whole games now the only move thats changed has been neutral air, which was for worse and not better.

A complete redesign that includes-
1. An fsmash that iterrates plasma beam from the metroid games into a mid ranged chargeable oscillating burst that functions like mega mans fsmash.
2. A down b that replaces bomb with beam switch on neutral b to ice beam that results in less knockback than charge beam, but gives us a freeze.
3. Replace awful dsmash with power bomb drop that kills at reasonable percent.
4. I love dair, but she still needs bomb jump, so make dair the aerial down b bomb that we have now, but still spikes if bomb hits.
5. Replace jab with what is now fsmash, so that it functions similar to Ganons jab, with less knockback than current fsmash but is a single powerful blow with solid get-off-me knockback plus sets target on fire cuz that would be sweet.
6. Give her the Project M dodge, and make morphball a crawl, cuz it just makes sense.
7. Fix the rest of her janky moves like usmash, uair, and neutral air so that they hit more reliably.
6. Charge shot chargeable in air for goodness sake.
7. Reduce landing lag on all aerial projectiles. Even if the landing lag on aerial normals remained, this would reinforce the idea of her being a zoning character.

Dang, awesome ideas

Fair landing lag is way, way too high. If you make a small mistake like missing the stage cancel or sh fair you're gonna eat ridiculous lag for a move that isn't even that good.

 

[White_Pointer]

You know what? I just had a bit of a crazy idea...hear me out and tell me what you think.

I know this is kind of out there, but what if Samus' grab could actually grab the opponent on the way back? That is, the grapple beam can grab opponents on the way out, like it currently can, but can also grab when Samus is pulling it back in!

This I don't think will make a huge difference overall, but what it WILL do is take away the option of spot dodging Samus' grab, as if they spot dodge it, the grapple beam will grab them on the way back anyway.

I realise this will make Samus' grab unique, being the ONLY grab that has this kind of mechanic, but I think it would make Samus' grab game a lot more viable and a little bit safer. Opponents can always roll dodge it or potentially jump it, of course.

What do you guys think about that?

 

[Varia31]

You know what? I just had a bit of a crazy idea...hear me out and tell me what you think.

I know this is kind of out there, but what if Samus' grab could actually grab the opponent on the way back? That is, the grapple beam can grab opponents on the way out, like it currently can, but can also grab when Samus is pulling it back in!

This I don't think will make a huge difference overall, but what it WILL do is take away the option of spot dodging Samus' grab, as if they spot dodge it, the grapple beam will grab them on the way back anyway.

I realise this will make Samus' grab unique, being the ONLY grab that has this kind of mechanic, but I think it would make Samus' grab game a lot more viable and a little bit safer. Opponents can always roll dodge it or potentially jump it, of course.

What do you guys think about that?

Heh, Samus' grab is actually like this in Brawl Minus. It doesn't seem too overpowered there, it just lingers, so as long as it's out, it will grab someone. Not a bad idea!

 

[White_Pointer]

Heh, Samus' grab is actually like this in Brawl Minus. It doesn't seem too overpowered there, it just lingers, so as long as it's out, it will grab someone. Not a bad idea!

Yeah, pretty much.

The effect of this is to stop opponents just mindlessly spot dodging. Like they don't exactly know WHAT attack is coming out, they just spot dodge knowing that will get the job done. If her grab effectively can't be spot dodged, that makes them a lot more cautious about just throwing out spot dodges. If you start baiting out other reactions, you can start punishing them and really play mind games. For example you could bait out a back roll after several unsuccessful spot dodges, which will give you a chance to land a charge shot.

 

[meticulousboy]

I feel like the second jab should be 5% for some reason instead of 6%.

 

[Bowserboy3]

I made a sort of "wish list" of what I would like to see in changes for Samus. I'd like to see people's opinions on these (just a point, in regards to values like knockback growth etc, I used frame data from other characters to get a general understanding of how powerful the move would be. Not saying that it is perfect, but just a solid guess).

· Jab’s first hit knocks the opponent slightly upwards with set knockback, deals slightly more hitstun and has slightly less IASA frames, allowing it to link more consistently.

· Jab 2’s damage decreased. From 8% -> 6%.

· Forward tilt sourspot at middle part of leg removed, essentially reverting it to its original Smash 4 version but keeps the increased damage sweetspot from 1.0.6.

· Down Smash has increased damage and knockback growth, allowing it to kill slightly earlier without it being a strong option. 10% front/12% back -> 11% front/13% back. Knockback growth front hit 46/back hit 48 -> front hit 56/back hit 58.

· Forward Aerial has at least 4 frames less of landing lag. From 24 -> 20.

· Forward Throw knockback increased, killing earlier. Base 60/ growth 55 -> base 75/ growth 70 (similar knockback to Up Throw)

· Down Throw angle changed, allowing for more reliable follow ups. Fom 80° -> 85°.

· Super Missiles deal more knockback. From base 50/growth 65 -> base 60/growth 75. Additionally the launch angle is changed from 65° to 45°.

· Bomb base damage increased. From 4% -> 5%.

· Bomb base knockback decreased From 22 -> 20.

Ok, what do you guys think of my wish list? I really like Samus in this game, very underrated. Just a few more buffs to make her tournament viable please Sakurai!

 

[White_Pointer]

Been thinking about this some more recently and really, I think there's probably only one balance patch remaining (to coindide with Corrin and Bayonetta, assuming they arrive at the same time). So these are the changes I really want to happen:

- Give her a kill throw (up throw preferably) or a kill confirm off a throw ala what they did with Bowser
- Reduce the frames on her grab like they did with Lucas
- Make her slightly less floaty so she doesn't die so early (not much use being fairly heavy if she dies early anyway)
- Full charge shot should NOT clank or be beaten out by any other projectile, except for possibly other charge moves. Either that or make it chargeable in the air
- Make down smash a kill move
- Increase her roll speed
- Buff her overall frame data slightly

I'd also like it if jab 1 actually properly linked to jab 2.

 

[LancerStaff]

Been thinking about this some more recently and really, I think there's probably only one balance patch remaining (to coindide with Corrin and Bayonetta, assuming they arrive at the same time). So these are the changes I really want to happen:

- Give her a kill throw (up throw preferably) or a kill confirm off a throw ala what they did with Bowser
- Reduce the frames on her grab like they did with Lucas
- Make her slightly less floaty so she doesn't die so early (not much use being fairly heavy if she dies early anyway)
- Full charge shot should NOT clank or be beaten out by any other projectile, except for possibly other charge moves. Either that or make it chargeable in the air
- Make down smash a kill move
- Increase her roll speed
- Buff her overall frame data slightly

I'd also like it if jab 1 actually properly linked to jab 2.

Fast fallers take more hitstun upwards to mostly negate the whole "heavy floaties don't work" thing, and it's a mechanic that's been in place since Brawl.

 

[White_Pointer]

Fast fallers take more hitstun upwards to mostly negate the whole "heavy floaties don't work" thing, and it's a mechanic that's been in place since Brawl.

Regardless of that, her floatiness really works against her. She's equal 6th heaviest character in the game alongside Bowser Jr (the only characters heavier than her are Bowser, DK, DDD, Charizard and Ganondorf) yet dies off the top sub 100% because of how floaty she is. It's especially apparent if you look at other characters lighter than her and realise they tend to live longer because they are nowhere near as floaty (characters like ROB, Falcon, Yoshi, Ike and Ryu).

I'm not asking for much, just to make her slightly less floaty. It's one of her biggest problems IMO.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Regardless of that, her floatiness really works against her. She's equal 6th heaviest character in the game alongside Bowser Jr (the only characters heavier than her are Bowser, DK, DDD, Charizard and Ganondorf) yet dies off the top sub 100% because of how floaty she is. It's especially apparent if you look at other characters lighter than her and realise they tend to live longer because they are nowhere near as floaty (characters like ROB, Falcon, Yoshi, Ike and Ryu).

I'm not asking for much, just to make her slightly less floaty. It's one of her biggest problems IMO.

Thing is, being floaty has plenty or benefits too. Samus has arguably one of the best horizontal recoveries, thanks to her floatiness, weight, and the number of options she has to extend it. Thanks to these, she can live to incredibly high percents horizontally. Making her less floaty would hinder what is arguably one of her best traits.

The floatiness also helps with combos, as well as catching air dodges. If Samus wasn't as floaty, she most likely would not be able to do her highly damaging aerial combos You'd also probably not be able to do Fair off the ledge into a shield and retreat back to the ledge and instantly snap it as the move ends. You'd more than likely have to resort to using Up B again, weakening one of her safer ledge get up options

I could say exactly the same thing about Fox for example. If Fox was made more floaty, he wouldn't die so early off the side, but he would die a lot earlier off the top. Not every character is perfect. Characters that can survive horizontally well usually die off the top earlier (Samus) and characters that die off the side earlier die off the top later (Fox, Sheik), and characters that survive well off the side and the top tend to either have bad recoveries, or get combo's really easily (Bowser, Ganondorf, Dedede). Each character has strengths and weaknesses.

 

[GooberGaming]

Regardless of that, her floatiness really works against her. She's equal 6th heaviest character in the game alongside Bowser Jr (the only characters heavier than her are Bowser, DK, DDD, Charizard and Ganondorf) yet dies off the top sub 100% because of how floaty she is. It's especially apparent if you look at other characters lighter than her and realise they tend to live longer because they are nowhere near as floaty (characters like ROB, Falcon, Yoshi, Ike and Ryu).

I'm not asking for much, just to make her slightly less floaty. It's one of her biggest problems IMO.

I find her floatiness not as bad now that I am used to it. It does in fact help with air juggling opponents.

Also, imo it does fit her the canon characteristics of her character. Playing through the Metroid Prime series, she is very floaty!!

 

[Hark17ball]

I'd still want the M2/Lucas treatment.
Slightly less lag on moves (Grab!)
Slightly faster run speed
Fix USmash/Fair hitboxes
Strengthen DSmash
Strengthen UpB or give invincibility frames on its start up. Being beat out by jabs is duuuumb! Lol

Just a few of these would do wonders. The speed buff would allow to to capitalize on follow ups far better than she can now.

 

[Bowserboy3]

I'd still want the M2/Lucas treatment.
Slightly less lag on moves (Grab!)
Slightly faster run speed
Fix USmash/Fair hitboxes
Strengthen DSmash
Strengthen UpB or give invincibility frames on its start up. Being beat out by jabs is duuuumb! Lol

Just a few of these would do wonders. The speed buff would allow to to capitalize on follow ups far better than she can now.

I honestly don't understand the problem people have with Fair... I could understand if we were still playing Melee, but it actually links pretty consistently now. I never seem to have a problem with it. Am I missing something here?

Everything else you stated (aside from maybe the run speed, but that would indeed be nice) is vital, and would help Samus immensely IMO, especially the grab buff. I would also like to see Dash Attack come out on Frame 8 instead of Frame 10 (like in Brawl, it came out on Frame 8, no problems) so that it would put to bed all the misconceptions about it being a bad move. And Jab link... please...

 

[Hark17ball]

I honestly don't understand the problem people have with Fair... I could understand if we were still playing Melee, but it actually links pretty consistently now. I never seem to have a problem with it. Am I missing something here?

Everything else you stated (aside from maybe the run speed, but that would indeed be nice) is vital, and would help Samus immensely IMO, especially the grab buff. I would also like to see Dash Attack come out on Frame 8 instead of Frame 10 (like in Brawl, it came out on Frame 8, no problems) so that it would put to bed all the misconceptions about it being a bad move. And Jab link... please...

I have no real problems with it linking.
Use Fair against 90% of other moves and you I'll get beat out, the hit box is absurdly tiny. Swords, Kicks, Fairs etc everything beats it. The flame doesn't behave like Marths Sword which is my biggest gripe with Fair. Even if you jump and fade away with it other characters who have bigger disjoints will eat through it with a move. Sheiks Fair is a prime example there's no trade she just straight goes through it, as can ZSS, Falcon, Fox etc.

Edit- my main training buddy is a great ZSS. If you try to Dthrow and follow up with Fair her Uair beats it, she lands and SHE can follow up. I want to hit him when that happens hahaha

 

[Xygonn]

Regardless of that, her floatiness really works against her. She's equal 6th heaviest character in the game alongside Bowser Jr (the only characters heavier than her are Bowser, DK, DDD, Charizard and Ganondorf) yet dies off the top sub 100% because of how floaty she is. It's especially apparent if you look at other characters lighter than her and realise they tend to live longer because they are nowhere near as floaty (characters like ROB, Falcon, Yoshi, Ike and Ryu).

I'm not asking for much, just to make her slightly less floaty. It's one of her biggest problems IMO.

She doesn't die "early" vertically she was 12th before DLC, Roy and Ryu probably both die later than her vertically. Her gravity, low fall speed, and weight make her able to escape many combos that are guaranteed on other characters (due to lower hitstun which is tied to launch velocity). Ryu's utilt gets one or two hits on us, it is infinite on fastfallers. Mario's utilt hits us twice. Many characters eat that all the way to 40%. I like being floaty. The weakness is in landing options, but compared to Bowser, we have options.

 

[JAZZ_]

I think the floaty-ness is amazing, if I have trouble landing in can either juke my opponent out with the amazing bomb mobility or use that same mobility to get to the ledge and back on stage.
One change I want (other than grab which every Samus main can agree needs help)
Fsmash hit box reworked to provide a protective hitbox, I don't mind having the same ending to it as long as I don't have this dumb thing that happens where your spaced so that Fsmash should hit them at the tip, they throw out their fsmash and instead of a clank you get blown out of the sky because their move extended through yours even if your body appears to be away from the targets hitbox. If I was any other character it would at least clank. I also find it offensive that a plumbing glove can make a massive fireball hitbox but a massive gun just shoots out flame colored streamers.

 

[Hark17ball]

I think the floaty-ness is amazing, if I have trouble landing in can either juke my opponent out with the amazing bomb mobility or use that same mobility to get to the ledge and back on stage.
One change I want (other than grab which every Samus main can agree needs help)
Fsmash hit box reworked to provide a protective hitbox, I don't mind having the same ending to it as long as I don't have this dumb thing that happens where your spaced so that Fsmash should hit them at the tip, they throw out their fsmash and instead of a clank you get blown out of the sky because their move extended through yours even if your body appears to be away from the targets hitbox. If I was any other character it would at least clank. I also find it offensive that a plumbing glove can make a massive fireball hitbox but a massive gun just shoots out flame colored streamers.

Flame colored streamers.....lmao I'm totally using that.

 

[Vyrnx]

Floatiness is Samus' distinguishing trait in every Smash game and it's a pretty good thing, too. Going from Samus' to Link is a huge adjustment because of his fall speed... He escapes no combos, loses jumps when he tries to jump out of combos (making it 10x worse), and his horizontal recovery is really meh. With Samus' floatiness Link would have a great recovery. People really understate Samus' ability to escape combos, it takes playing as characters who can't escape combos to really realize how good she is at it. I can't stand when I read, "floaty mess who still gets comboed and can't land...". Just because she doesn't escape all combos doesn't mean she gets comboed hard, because she doesn't. It also means Samus can just stay in the air and float over to the edge mostly uncontested, so she doesn't have to land on the stage like fast fallers (though retreating to the ledge is still problematic).

Samus needs changes to be viable, as much as I like her. It would take some big changes to make Samus high tier. I never agree with people who say, "ahh be careful buffing Samus or you will push her over the edge..!"...no. It would take major changes to, "push Samus over the edge".

With some small changes, Samus will be a solid mid tier, which I would be content with, and I wouldn't keep asking for buffs.

With some bigger changes Samus could be high tier:
-9 frame landing lag uair, like Falcon.
-Lower end lag on dtilt
-Better dthrow angle (or)
-Killthrow
-Lower landing lag on nair
These are major changes that would make Samus high tier.

To push her over the edge, we'd have to be talking:
-Higher KB on up b so we have ZSS style kill combos
-Guaranteed CS combos at kill percents
-Killing dtilt in conjunction with other buffs, like low landing lag uair.
Nobody wants this, so when people are criticizing Samus mains for, "wanting their character buffed to oblivion," keep in mind that we aren't asking for these things, and there's no risk of it happening.

 

[DungeonMaster]

I routinely kill myself playing other characters, I go for fast-fall d-airs and d-air, d-air jump d-air up-B style of offstage play only to realize it was a yolo option for that character and it's just par for course for Samus...
Floaty is great, really would not change that for the world, irrespective of pro player opinions.
Despite my occasional griping I still believe Samus once mastered will be a strong character, flaws and all. There are simply too many options and we're not using them to the fullest, upcoming video will help with that I think.

There are many many things that could be done to improve basic play, quality of life and not "break" the game, there are already full tilt broken characters that have not been addressed in patches so I'm not sure how anyone would be able to say Samus with buffs, even ike level buffs, could "break" the game balance. Shiek, Rosa, ZSS, Mario all need to be hit with a nerf bat before anyone can talk about game breaking.
We need 2 frames of jumpsquat removed, that would have immediate impact on making all combos looser, improve the SHAD, make the full jump variants of CS combos true, allow for d-air FJ true combos, and the list goes on.
It's tuned just wrong at present.
Less frames of d-air landing lag would make a huge benefit, a larger d-air hitbox and shorter startup to the spike hitbox (i.e. more frames of spiking) would go a long way.
Alternatively global increasing the hitstun from the big hits d-air, up-tilt to the level where they show combos in training mode would make the character *GREAT*.
Making teching more tight a window, all forms, would really help this character, it's too easy to tech now, I've been saying this for awhile.
Increasing the hitstun from z-air 4th hit, giving us proper 45 frame basic missiles, I mean there are a lot of things that could be done. I'm not sure the dev team have the courage to do so. Maybe the SHI-G tier list will have some impact.

 

[Afro Smash]

I wouldn't mind our floatiness if we had 1 decent landing option.

• Brawl Nair would've been good, they changed it
• Dair very slow start up
• Upair no hitbox directly beneath
• Horrible air speed
• Bombs leave you vulnerable, offer minimal hitstun

I've said it before but what I really want is bombs to offer super armour whilst in morph ball and maybe reduced damage, similar to Ryu's Focus Attack, because right now we have no safe landing options, everything is reliant on mix ups, which are unreliable and dependant on your opponent, which makes them inconsistent, and inconsistency is not something anyone wants to bring to a tournament

 

[Vyrnx]

Yeah buffing Samus' moveset... I mean, she has the few bad moves but the majority of her moves are overwhelmingly good, it's just that they are on a character who can't land. So I've been saying we should buff her moveset, but it wouldn't solve her actual biggest flaw (unless it were to landing type moves). Super armor down b would be really cool...

I wish that this game had one good dair for landing and contesting opponents below. There are literally no dairs in the game that are actually good for that, and really no dairs that are that good except for Peach's, only because of the float mechanic. I would love for Samus' dair to have some drastic change that made it a landing option. Range, shield push back, better startup significantly lower landing lag, or maybe some insane AC window (maybe too op..). Obviously not al of those things. It would be a nice change for the game and would probably instantly make Samus a lot better.

 

[White_Pointer]

I'd like it if down b acually provided a bit of height when done in the air too. At the moment it doesn't. Either that or I like the idea of having super armour during the move...even heavy armour like what Yoshi gets for his double jump is better than nothing.

Also...grab and throws...please fix them. Make her grab less risky, and make her throws actually worth something. Either a kill throw or a throw that confirms into a kill (they've given them to Bowser and DK, show Samus some love!).

 

[FlAlex]

Why would Morph Bomb ever get Super Armour? It would be nice to have, but canonically (and logically) it should not have super armour.

I want an easier time landing, but on the off chance Nintendo is listening in on us, shouldn't we list off more.... easily acceptable buffs? If I can use the first kick on Nair low enough to the ground that a crouching G&W gets hit, I would be fine.

 

[White_Pointer]

Why would Morph Bomb ever get Super Armour? It would be nice to have, but canonically (and logically) it should not have super armour.

I want an easier time landing, but on the off chance Nintendo is listening in on us, shouldn't we list off more.... easily acceptable buffs? If I can use the first kick on Nair low enough to the ground that a crouching G&W gets hit, I would be fine.

Canon and logic doesn't really apply here though. Why does Mario have a huge disjoint on his usmash that makes his head basically invincible? Because of reasons. There's no canon or logic there.

Samus has issues against short characters in general, so any change that makes it easier to deal with short characters is welcome. But she does need some kind of proper landing option, and down b seems like a good a move as any to allow her to do that. I'd like down b to give her a little vertical height when done in the air...not a lot, but enough to throw off the positioning and timing of an opponent that's trying to juggle you.

 

[LancerStaff]

Canon and logic doesn't really apply here though. Why does Mario have a huge disjoint on his usmash that makes his head basically invincible? Because of reasons. There's no canon or logic there.

Samus has issues against short characters in general, so any change that makes it easier to deal with short characters is welcome. But she does need some kind of proper landing option, and down b seems like a good a move as any to allow her to do that. I'd like down b to give her a little vertical height when done in the air...not a lot, but enough to throw off the positioning and timing of an opponent that's trying to juggle you.

Mario's Usmash being invincible is just an old fighting game thing so anti-airs, well, anti-air. Since aerials have a tendency to beat most things it's kinda important.

Now that I'm thinking about it, nearly all Usmashes have some kind of disjoint. Samus even has her flamethrower deal.

 

[LIQUID12A]

Less endlag on missiles would make them a more effective pressure tool imo. And a safe landing option wouldn't hurt, since basically everything that one could use to land safely has downsides and more often than not it's just retreating to the ledge every single time unless you play risky mindgames with an opponent.

Why would Morph Bomb ever get Super Armour? It would be nice to have, but canonically (and logically) it should not have super armour.

Just wanna point out that canon is often disregarded Smash-wise.

I mean, 'canonically', the Screw Attack murders nigh-everything it touches, but here it's just a recovery move.