Ice Climbers Match-Up Thread *Game & Watch*

[Nintendude]

I disagree about the blizzard. When I play PC's Meta Knight, he spaces himself well and doesn't let me get in blizzard range unless he's prepared for something like that. MK is really fast and has multiple jumps, so he can punish missed blizzards.

The MK fight is all about spacing. You can outrange him and forward-B can get through a lot of his attacks, even clashing with the tornado. If he uses tornado you can just sit in your shield and it rarely penetrates it. (may open up a grab opportunity too, as he lands) Use a lot of f-tilts to keep him away and look for grab opportunities since MK is really easy to chaingrab. You can even chaingrab him with a solo climber it seems.

Like most characters MK can have a hard time getting past the Uairs you throw at him when he's above you. Use forward-B to get him in that position.

If you are above MK and he's going for an up-B, you can use forward-B to quickly change your momentum in either direction to avoid it. Combine this with air-dodges to make yourself really unpredictable and MK will rarely hit you with the up-B. Being above MK is still a bad thing though, so try to not get in that position.

Lastly, don't try to punish his down-smash, tilts, or lag-canceled glide attack. It just never seems to work. Just sit in your shield until you have a good chance to get away.

 

[Miller]

I disagree about the blizzard. When I play PC's Meta Knight, he spaces himself well and doesn't let me get in blizzard range unless he's prepared for something like that. MK is really fast and has multiple jumps, so he can punish missed blizzards.

The MK fight is all about spacing. You can outrange him and forward-B can get through a lot of his attacks, even clashing with the tornado. If he uses tornado you can just sit in your shield and it rarely penetrates it. (may open up a grab opportunity too, as he lands) Use a lot of f-tilts to keep him away and look for grab opportunities since MK is really easy to chaingrab. You can even chaingrab him with a solo climber it seems.

Like most characters MK can have a hard time getting past the Uairs you throw at him when he's above you. Use forward-B to get him in that position.

If you are above MK and he's going for an up-B, you can use forward-B to quickly change your momentum in either direction to avoid it. Combine this with air-dodges to make yourself really unpredictable and MK will rarely hit you with the up-B. Being above MK is still a bad thing though, so try to not get in that position.

Lastly, don't try to punish his down-smash, tilts, or lag-canceled glide attack. It just never seems to work. Just sit in your shield until you have a good chance to get away.

Haha man, you love to disagree with me >_<

I still believe SH Blizz is a great idea, as well as what you mentioned, Squall is going to be really important here, as he gets knocked up into the air. After that Uairs will most likely connect if your smart about it. Don't forget Up B, it can be a really useful finisher as they will not expect it.

 

[Ekoix.exe]

Haha man, you love to disagree with me >_<

I still believe SH Blizz is a great idea, as well as what you mentioned, Squall is going to be really important here, as he gets knocked up into the air. After that Uairs will most likely connect if your smart about it. Don't forget Up B, it can be a really useful finisher as they will not expect it.

Dont you want him out of the air? Since his Air game is AMAZING compared to IC's

 

[Nintendude]

Dont you want him out of the air? Since his Air game is AMAZING compared to IC's

If you are under Meta Knight he can have a hard time since ICs Uair has really good range.

 

[Miller]

Uair is one of their best moves aswell as it can combo into another uair or up B

 

[Ekoix.exe]

Doesn't his Dair have more priority..? Also a disjointed hit box that has longer reach the the IC's disjointed uair

 

[Miller]

You'd be surprised at how well Uair is. It usually beats out glide attacks as well as Dair. It has a lot more range then you'd expect

 

[KRDsonic]

Meta Knight's can really do anything about your Up Air except to try to air dodge it, I've found Meta Knight's to be a lot easier to fight when you have them directly above you.

 

[Miller]

Thats why Squall is such a good choice, as it sends them where you want them to be. Dash attack also fits the bill well.

 

[Corner-Trap]

I'm about to add those Uair tips to the first page.

 

[Miller]

Also add that Dash Attack and Squall are amazing setups to get people in the air.

 

[Ekoix.exe]

Generally, I would have to say MK's has a large advantage against IC as he's really fast and has an insane prioritized move set. He's great at racking up damage really quickly, and what sucks even more for us is that he has a great edge hog game.

 

[Miller]

Generally, that's only because people cant find ways to beat MKs, like yourself.
Blizzard, Squall, Dash Attack, Up Air, Up B, all essential for beating MKs, aswell as Chain Grabs of course

 

[Corner-Trap]

Obviously there are ways to beat MK but there's no denying that he has the easier time in this match-up.

 

[Ekoix.exe]

Generally, that's only because people cant find ways to beat MKs, like yourself.
Blizzard, Squall, Dash Attack, Up Air, Up B, all essential for beating MKs, aswell as Chain Grabs of course

I never said you can't beat MK, get it through your head. I just said that MK has more of an advantage.

 

[Miller]

I never said you can't beat MK, get it through your head. I just said that MK has more of an advantage.

Did I even say that? No. MK Doesn't have as big of an advantage as you would expect.

 

[Nintendude]

Obviously there are ways to beat MK but there's no denying that he has the easier time in this match-up.

That's not necessarily true. I think that it's easier for Meta Knight to LEARN his side of the matchup but at the top level of current play it's pretty near even.

It's kind of like Sheik vs. Marth in Melee. Sheik can learn the matchup really easily and at lower levels of play Sheik wrecks Marth, but it really levels out at peak play to the point of a near even matchup.

 

[Miller]

That's not necessarily true. I think that it's easier for Meta Knight to LEARN his side of the matchup but at the top level of current play it's pretty near even.

It's kind of like Sheik vs. Marth in Melee. Sheik can learn the matchup really easily and at lower levels of play Sheik wrecks Marth, but it really levels out at peak play to the point of a near even matchup.

I completely agree with all of that. People just do not realize ways around MK. People are focused on making their strengths even stronger, but what people are not doing is turning their weaknesses into their strengths.

 

[Percon]

Anything that gets past the tornado is good, and ICs have a move that does just that. The matchup is in MK's favor, but isn't horrible.

I don't play ICs, but here are some general anti-MK tips :

Predict grabs. This may not apply that well to ICs, since there's two of them and nobody ever wants to grab, but if you can see one coming for whatever reason spotdodge then attack/grab behind you.

Anything that kills MK off the top is good, for ICs this seems to only be Usmash out of grab and UpB (as Miller said, just make sure it's a surprise)

I guess you can't powersheild the Dsmash with ICs.... so just run away from it. It's near unpunishable.

Oh, and try and blizzard all glide attacks... I hate glide attacks :/ Anything that gets around it is good.

That's about it. Powershielding makes this matchup SOOO much easier, but eh... oh well, ICs cg > spike is the only spike that will ever land on a good MK. So yeah.

 

[Miller]

Anything that gets past the tornado is good, and ICs have a move that does just that. The matchup is in MK's favor, but isn't horrible.

I don't play ICs, but here are some general anti-MK tips :

Predict grabs. This may not apply that well to ICs, since there's two of them and nobody ever wants to grab, but if you can see one coming for whatever reason spotdodge then attack/grab behind you.

Anything that kills MK off the top is good, for ICs this seems to only be Usmash out of grab and UpB (as Miller said, just make sure it's a surprise)

I guess you can't powersheild the Dsmash with ICs.... so just run away from it. It's near unpunishable.

Oh, and try and blizzard all glide attacks... I hate glide attacks :/ Anything that gets around it is good.

That's about it. Powershielding makes this matchup SOOO much easier, but eh... oh well, ICs cg > spike is the only spike that will ever land on a good MK. So yeah.

The all knowning Percon :O

Seems you lurk my boards then Niko does >_<

 

[Corner-Trap]

I guess I'll turn the match-up into a 2 instead of a 1.

 

[Miller]

Actually its closer to a 7/3

 

[Miller]

Will people bring more discussion to this thread ?!

 

[billythegoat]

I'll add my 2 cents
I have found that the synced squall hammer is one of your best opptions out of your shield. All to often some Meta-knight starts thinking he's invincible if he simply continues to side-step and down smash. If you shield his smash, then you can jump out of your shield and land right ontop of him with your squall. Its like 25% and puts him above you, just spam your u-airs.
I'm having the most trouble in this match-up when he starts going up-b>glide-attack-cancel>downsmash>repeat the whole blasted thing. Were is the best place to intercept him during this, and with what? Right now I have simply been trying some dash shield grabs on the glide-attack>down-smash, but this usually doesn't work.Plz help!!!

 

[Miller]

Blizzard would be your best bet, try that out

 

[Corner-Trap]

For a character with so many bad match-ups you would think people would be more enthusiastic while discussing the IC's match-ups.

 

[Dark_Meow1]

I dunno if you care, but Peach has a pretty good game over IC's. At least I have never had trouble with ICs other then Hylian's, and well, we all know why that is.

 

[Miller]

I dunno if you care, but Peach has a pretty good game over IC's. At least I have never had trouble with ICs other then Hylian's, and well, we all know why that is.

Are we talking about Peach? Were talking about MK right now...

But Corner-Trap, Ive said all I can, Id try and bring more discussion to this thread but theres no more knowledge that I know

 

[Ulevo]

Constructive thread, still has a ways to go though. I hope this becomes something bountiful and informative, as it would be nice to refer to. Keep at it.

* Subscribes *

 

[Miller]

Constructive thread, still has a ways to go though. I hope this becomes something bountiful and informative, as it would be nice to refer to. Keep at it.

* Subscribes *

Maybe you could actually contribute to the thread instead of noting its shortcomings.

I think Its time to switch the character though

 

[ChopingBoard]

if you are any good at chaingrabs, then the only thing you need to worry about it actually landing a solid grab on metaknight. can be an easy 0-death if you can grab the dude. use back throws over and over again (which i find really easy to time on metaknight). practice the chaingrabs on metaknight and you'll realize that it may not be as hard as you think.

 

[Miller]

if you are any good at chaingrabs, then the only thing you need to worry about it actually landing a solid grab on metaknight. can be an easy 0-death if you can grab the dude. use back throws over and over again (which i find really easy to time on metaknight). practice the chaingrabs on metaknight and you'll realize that it may not be as hard as you think.

Im sorry, but to everyone that reads this, DO NOT FOLLOW THIS ADVICE

IC need to focus on their physical game, not their grab game against a MK

 

[choknater]

*Sigh* Metaknight, Metaknight, Metaknight... What can I say about Metaknight...

Well, the first time I ever played IC's vs MK, it was against someone who had never used MK before. And I was *****, badly. I've had other experiences with this matchup but they have all been bad. The only way I've beaten him is because I was lucky enough to grab and unleash VERY devastating grab combos (I had no other choice; I was unsure if I'd ever grab him again.) As MK players get even better at pressuring and maneuvering, IC's have a harder and harder time being able to damage him, let alone grab him.

Needless to say....

Even for a really good IC player, it's hard figure out know where to begin with this matchup. Sure, he's light and easily KO'd if you can nick him with a smash, uair, or bair. But other than that, I have no idea how to beat this mofo besides switching my character. This is worse than fighing Peach in melee, lol.

Only advice I can give:
- Ice blocks and blizzards are your BEST FRIEND.
- It helps a lot of you play AS Metaknight to know his about his openings, which he has very few of.
- Capitalize as much as possible if he really does mess up and gives you a grab opportunity.
- Shuttle loop and tornado **** everything, as usual. Except blizzard. (But even if he does tornado into your blizzard, it's not like you have dealt a lot of damage or created a guaranteed follow up.)
- This is an uphill battle up the ***. Solo popo is even worse, nigh impossible IMO.

The matchup itself is not impossible, just super hard. IC's really do deserve a 1/5 against MK more than any other character. Many props to the IC's who actually do beat MK's, and even more props to those who beat good MK's.

EDIT: I posted this without reading Millar's earlier posts. From what he's saying, it seems the IC's really do have a chance...? Hahah, we should talk on AIM bro. Show me the ropes of IC's vs MK!

 

[ChopingBoard]

Im sorry, but to everyone that reads this, DO NOT FOLLOW THIS ADVICE

IC need to focus on their physical game, not their grab game against a MK

hence why i said "if" you can grab him. I made sure that if i grab metaknight, it is going to be a stock loss on metaknight. it isn't hard to chain him 0-death. so practoce your chaingrabs on him. be patient. and spam blizzards properly.

a good way to spam blizzards is to desynch. alternate blizzards with jumps too. a very solid approach against mk

 

[Corner-Trap]

Whoops, I forgot I made this thread. Well ummm........... I'll update the MK match-up and we'll talk about Game & Watch now.

>Choknater

Why did you change your av? IC footstool not good enough for you?

 

[choknater]

LOL, I'm sorry man. I had to say goodbye to the footstool avatar since everyone can do customs now. Though, it was fun while it lasted... I remember back in some threads where eight posts in a row would have the same avatar, hahaha.

But yeah, Nia wins. I have gotten a lot of compliments on this new avatar ^^;

Ouch, hm... Mr. Game & Watch.

Well, I'll add more on this later.

- Blizzards are still your best friend
- Ice blocks work great too
- Keep his freaking priority away from you
- IC's are fast enough to nick him in the air sometimes with bair, nair, uair
- Uairing from underneath you is annoying, but it doesn't happen a lot since the IC's play a ground game
- His edgeguarding is strong
- His priority is great, and this is still an uphill battle for IC's, but it's not nearly as hard as MK because GW doesn't have the great speed behind his range and priority. This makes it easier to grab him, or punish his mistakes. Watch closely, and know how to space his ranged attacks.

(I like this thread, and I'm glad to be back on the IC boards lol. I've been hanging around the Sheik threads a lot. As you can see, guys, I changed my main.)

My sig, however, should make many of you smile.

 

[Miller]

LOL, I'm sorry man. I had to say goodbye to the footstool avatar since everyone can do customs now. Though, it was fun while it lasted... I remember back in some threads where eight posts in a row would have the same avatar, hahaha.

But yeah, Nia wins. I have gotten a lot of compliments on this new avatar ^^;

Ouch, hm... Mr. Game & Watch.

Well, I'll add more on this later.

- Blizzards are still your best friend
- Ice blocks work great too
- Keep his freaking priority away from you
- IC's are fast enough to nick him in the air sometimes with bair, nair, uair
- Uairing from underneath you is annoying, but it doesn't happen a lot since the IC's play a ground game
- His edgeguarding is strong
- His priority is great, and this is still an uphill battle for IC's, but it's not nearly as hard as MK because GW doesn't have the great speed behind his range and priority. This makes it easier to grab him, or punish his mistakes. Watch closely, and know how to space his ranged attacks.

(I like this thread, and I'm glad to be back on the IC boards lol. I've been hanging around the Sheik threads a lot. As you can see, guys, I changed my main.)

My sig, however, should make many of you smile.

Hahaha thats the best siggy ever.

Also, Ill go on Aim sometime today hopefully and talk to you about anything you need to know

Just 2 days ago at a tourney, every MK I faced was a super close matchup, and it was one of the best, if not THE best MK around. We were both on our last stock at 120 each, sadly he got the first hit off

But yea, that was good advice for G&W, except I find G&W one of the easier match ups for me. G&Ws have a certain amount of choices they can do at all times, and its quite limited aswell, usually involving a Bair. Not difficult at all. Plus, when your on Halberd, all you gotta say is "Man, you can actually absorb the laser with your bucket :D". IRL Mindgames are quite fun :D

 

[Corner-Trap]

Alright, I nominate Choknater for having the best sig ever. And I just realized that I didn't change the thread title.

 

[choknater]

Haha thanks I'm glad you like it.

 

[Nintendude]

I have a really hard time in this matchup, or maybe I just have a really hard time playing against omegablackmage.

It's like impossible to get inside a GW who spaces himself with like every attack he has. Down-tilt stops ground approaches, Nair stops air approaches, the bucket stops projectile approaches (if you blizzard the bucket it fills up instantly), and the turtle is self explanatory.

If GW gets under you you are just screwed it seems. There's no safe way to get back to the ground and moving off the edge is a horrible idea. If you ever use forward-B and GW gets under you with uair, he can just keep uairing you while you are in your disabled state and he gets a free f-smash or something.

The only thing I can do is space myself and eventually squeeze in a squall and work from there. Nothing else seems to work against GW. It's possibly the hardest matchup.