Ice Climber's grabs and desynces

[Glass]

For me I seem to only be able to get 20% out of a wobble

 

[Iceman]

For me I seem to only be able to get 20% out of a wobble

Yeah I tested it out. It's not really worth it

 

[Ringbearer]

Random thoughts.

Continued experimenting with endless dair combo today. Can do it fairly consistently against a ealking cpu in training, and got it off a handful of times during fights against level 9 and 7 cpus, the main difficulty here being that it's hard to start up. It takes until about the second or third dair to be able to string them together as quickly as possible, and many cpus knock you off by that point. I've carried some cpus all the way across final destination with just to follow with a downsmash though.

It may prove more effective against some characters to fast fall with each dair, either with just popo (who jumps higher than a desynched nana) or both of them. Idk though. Also makes it significantly harder. University snow day tomorrow, so I'll investigate more then.

Also, if using the tether version of belay, an opponent can actually grab the ledge at just the right time and allow nana to recover while Popo sorta twitches at the end of his string and then falls to his death, lol.

 

[KingDozie]

I still dont know how to do the shield desynch thing do you have a step by step answer.

 

[Ringbearer]

I still dont know how to do the shield desynch thing do you have a step by step answer.

The three ways to desynch from shield that I know of are, listed from soonest activation to the slowest:
1) Simply shield and hit up on the c-stick. Popo jumps while Nana upsmashes. Popo's jump height depends on how lightly you flick the cstick. There are several uses for this, but some easy ones are immediately hitting down again on c-stick. Popo does a dair, and if the opponent is close enough, you knock them straight into the upsmash. You can also do a blizzard or an ice block if they're a little farther away, allowing Nana to then to follow up.
2) If you do a spot dodge OoS and input an attack right before they come back to vulnerability, only Nana will do it. Also, if you input a side-b a little quicker than this, Nana will do it by herself, which can be pretty useful.
3) If you roll OoS, you can input an attack right before they come out of the roll and only Nana will do it. If you want her to do a side-b by herself, though, you have to have her go backwards. If you input the side-b forwards, they'll either both do it or neither of them will.

4) I guess you can up-b out of shield to desynch if you want to... but I can't imagine ever really wanting to.

Sorry if you already knew the roll and spot-dodge desynchs. Figured I'd err on the side of over-information than under-information.

 

[Ringbearer]

Also, just to chronicle potential progress/futility, I think that the endless dair technique might have some potential. Having Nana and Popo fast fall along with each dair definitely makes it faster, but you have to almost make them dash before getting the jump out, otherwise they don't move far enough horizontally to keep up with the knockback on the opponent. Not able to do it consistently yet, but I know for a fact they are able to cover a significant distance with each dair even with a fast fall input and that they will stay desynched unless the timing gets off of you L-cancel. Still probably gonna be a few more days before I can do it with solid constistency/discern whether it's competitively viable. That's all.

 

[Iceman]

The three ways to desynch from shield that I know of are, listed from soonest activation to the slowest:
1) Simply shield and hit up on the c-stick. Popo jumps while Nana upsmashes. Popo's jump height depends on how lightly you flick the cstick. There are several uses for this, but some easy ones are immediately hitting down again on c-stick. Popo does a dair, and if the opponent is close enough, you knock them straight into the upsmash. You can also do a blizzard or an ice block if they're a little farther away, allowing Nana to then to follow up.
2) If you do a spot dodge OoS and input an attack right before they come back to vulnerability, only Nana will do it. Also, if you input a side-b a little quicker than this, Nana will do it by herself, which can be pretty useful.
3) If you roll OoS, you can input an attack right before they come out of the roll and only Nana will do it. If you want her to do a side-b by herself, though, you have to have her go backwards. If you input the side-b forwards, they'll either both do it or neither of them will.

4) I guess you can up-b out of shield to desynch if you want to... but I can't imagine ever really wanting to.

Sorry if you already knew the roll and spot-dodge desynchs. Figured I'd err on the side of over-information than under-information.

Remember to use the c-stick for 2) and 3) so you can roll and spotdodge on the earliest possible frame.

 

[KingDozie]

I really like the desynch side b option. Do you guys have a list of combo finisher like dthrow to fsmash and also that dair techique is hard.

 

[Ringbearer]

I agree, haha. A lot of factors play into it. Opponent weight/falling speed (I don't think there damage matters too much or at all). Depending on how far Popo gets ahead of Nana, her momentum will fluctuate as she tries to catch back up to him. So, assuming there's a way to do it viably, it'll be pretty dang precise. I'm trying to find the proper balance between when it is convenient to fast fall or not. It -maybe- seems like its good to fast fall between the first few dairs, then, once you're right up on the person instead of glancing off their outer edges, it's better to omit the fast fall. Maybe. Idk. After about 45 minutes of practice, my brain is mush.

I think that, assuming it is possible to string together, though, it'll likely be best to start it up using a grab and then some sort of nana dair/side-b. Idk. Lemme know if you discover/notice anything about it if you try to practice it more.

 

[Ringbearer]

For the endless dair technique, while I think it probably is possible to keep your opponent caught in it until you've walked them all the way to the edge, it seems to be better strategically to just keep doing dairs up until the time when Popo is able to get in for a grab.

I'm trying to find a way to start the dair combo up from a grab, but haven't found anything super reliable. Sometimes having Nana blizzard or squall hammer during a downthrow, and then waiting until towards the end of her attack to start the dairs with Popo can work pretty well, but only if your opponent doesn't break out from Nana's attack, and only if Nana manages to stay close enough to you to allow for the dair string combo.

Assuming these criteria are met, though, you should only have to do one dair with popo, then nana, and then you can go for the grab.

I'd like to find a way to consistently have nana use ice block or dair during a grab to start it up, but haven't found anything too promising as of yet.

But if you happen to start up a dair string without using a grab during a match, I think it's typically best to only keep it going for a few hits until Popo can get a grab.

 

[Iceman]

I was watching Xanadu the other day and Chudat was playing the Ice Climbers. He did a really cool desync that I have been enjoying. I think that the best way to describe it is alternating forward short hop Blizzards. He would desync the Ice Climbers and have one them trap the opponent in a Blizzard. While the opponent is DI'ing out, Chudat made the next Ice Climber jump forward and trap the opponent in a Blizzard. He keep alternating and was able to do this for awhile. He was able to carry the opponent a fair distance, and rack up tons of damage.

 

[Ringbearer]

Hylian has done that before in some of the vids he shared; I think it works on a lot of characters, but probably not all of them. Still sweet though. Racks up better damage than side b typically.

Without much scrutiny, the most useful thing I saw him do was the jab, pivotn dsmash combo. Works with sopo. Seems to pretty much always connect. Good stuff.

 

[KingDozie]

I was watching Xanadu the other day and Chudat was playing the Ice Climbers. He did a really cool desync that I have been enjoying. I think that the best way to describe it is alternating forward short hop Blizzards. He would desync the Ice Climbers and have one them trap the opponent in a Blizzard. While the opponent is DI'ing out, Chudat made the next Ice Climber jump forward and trap the opponent in a Blizzard. He keep alternating and was able to do this for awhile. He was able to carry the opponent a fair distance, and rack up tons of damage.

It works well against charcs that dont have projectiltes. Ex:Captian Falcon or Marth

 

[TensenROB]

Are we posting Ice Climbers desyncs?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNJDYHgEQ2E

 

[Iceman]

Are we posting Ice Climbers desyncs?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNJDYHgEQ2E

Thanks, but please only post viable desyncs next time

 

[EIiitti]

Thanks, but please only post viable desyncs next time

What are you talking about? That de-sync will be revolutionary to ICs game! Just you watch, top 8 of the next big Project M tourney will be all ICs just spamming this OP de-sync and killing all competition. The winner will obviously be decided by port priority.



#20XX

 

[Iceman]

This would be good if it exploded like Jigglypuff's shield in Brawl-

 

[KingDozie]

Are we posting Ice Climbers desyncs?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNJDYHgEQ2E

Can you please post viable desync not trying to bash on you tho. We need more Ices players.

 

[Darkshooter]

Icies player here.

Would be willing to learn about desynching the two.

 

[KingDozie]

Icies player here.

Would be willing to learn about desynching the two.

There should be more and most of this should work. http://smashboards.com/threads/guide-to-desynching-treat-your-opponents-even-more-coldly.53912/

 

[TensenROB]

I'm not sure how realistic this is for standard play but it's possible to l-cancel with only one of your ICs, meaning the other may be delayed long enough to input an action. here's a possible scenario:
1. You short hop a fair and l-cancel on Popo and not Nana
2. The opponent techs in place
3. You input a blizzard for Popo
4. Nana has recovered from fair, so you grab the enemy with Nana

Maybe a short hop is not enough to hit the opponent downward, however splitting the l-cancels is very possible with an understandably shorter timeframe than regular l-cancels.


An interesting thing to note is that if you spot dodge desync a charged f-smash, Nana will charge the smash but always face Popo, so she can turn around while charging the f-smash.

 

[KingDozie]

Yes tensen that is possible. I want to try the nana spot dodge desync fsmash charge.

 

[TensenROB]

Yes tensen that is possible. I want to try the nana spot dodge desync fsmash charge.

Having tried it again I was wrong. Nana doesn't face Popo, she only faces the same direction that Popo is facing.

Also I'm trying the stuck nana desync in the thread you linked and Nana is the one who fires the ice block and not Popo.

Another silly thing is when Nana meets up with Popo she'll do what ever action you have on your controller. Eg if I'm holding down on the analog stick and am holding the A button, Nana will start charging down smash as soon as she gets in the Nanabox.

And another: if Nana grabs an enemy and Popo isn't nearby, Nana won't throw them.

Related to the previous note: Nana will throw if you input a direction while Popo's inside the Nanabox. Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuOcnrJqDQk

 

[Meme]

I don't play Icies as much like in Melee but might as well throw the idea around, Popo D-Throw then Nana Footstool. Might not be as consistent/useful for chaingrabbing but could be used againts fast-fallers on the edge at early percents as a side option for D-throw/F-Throw + Fair Spike.

 

[Hylian]

Already tried making use of it. Doesn't work well enough :/.

 

[Iceman]

I'm always looking for videos of PM Ice Climbers. Does anyone have any videos of themselves playing the Ice Climbers? I almost never see any in tournaments, besides Chudat.

 

[KingDozie]

Dude cant go to tournaments im 15,no money,Parents at work, and no car . I usually play wifi or play in wifi tournaments so when i do get old enough to drive then i would start going to tournies.

 

[Iceman]

I really should start playing wifi. It seems pretty convenient.

 

[KingDozie]

I really should start playing wifi. It seems pretty convenient.

It depends on the connection i advise if you do, use 1v1 anyone east coast so it wont be as laggy. Also i saw chu vs gimr and i didnt really see that much desynch i dont know why.

 

[Ringbearer]

If you're talking about Chudats matches at xanadu as ICs, I noticed the same thing: he actually desynched pretty infrequently. Perhaps his thinking is that desynching them tends not to be as beneficial in most scenarios as being able to just keep them together and do double the damage. Desynching also tends to make them easier to swat apart and separate.

 

[Iceman]

I've noticed that watching Chu at Xanadu. He almost never desynches his Ice Climbers. I can agree that desynching them makes it easier to get separated if you are inexperienced. I personally enjoy the ability to cover and react to multiple options.

 

[Iceman]

I think the biggest obstacle with desynching is time. It can take a second or two to desync the Ice Climbers, and in that window the opponent can eliminate alot of space. I've learned that the solution to this problem is learning lots of methods to desynch and knowing which one to use in the current situation.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Hi guys I start playing ICs and if i grab combo them and they try to mess me up with not teching the d-throw what is best: A jab reset annoys me because if they DI both the Popo and the Nana hit right I can't regrab at certain percents. Is there any desync to maximize punish out of missed tech :D Thx for feedback

 

[KingDozie]

Hi guys I start playing ICs and if i grab combo them and they try to mess me up with not teching the d-throw what is best: A jab reset annoys me because if they DI both the Popo and the Nana hit right I can't regrab at certain percents. Is there any desync to maximize punish out of missed tech :D Thx for feedback

I really cant read this but i can try to answer. The way to maximize a miss tech/tech chase is do a another grab combo which reset that or a dsmash. Literally you can use any punish options that the ices climbers use.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Oh man I need to make simpler sentences :D The d-smash seems good. How to reset best? Jab resets often lead to issues because the Nana hit hits him out of combo range at some percent (if DI'd correctly)?. Should I use another move (maybe Ice Block) or a special desync technique (so just the Popo jab hits)?

 

[KingDozie]

Oh man I need to make simpler sentences :D The d-smash seems good. How to reset best? Jab resets often lead to issues because the Nana hit hits him out of combo range at some percent (if DI'd correctly)?. Should I use another move (maybe Ice Block) or a special desync technique (so just the Popo jab hits)?

For spacies or fastfallers in general i would advise jab reset or Bthrow Nana jump ice block with they dont tech. Just go for a another grab which that could lead to tech chase options EX: Dthrow to Fair,Upthrow to Fair,Fthrow to Fair.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

OK thank you

 

[Foxy K]

I'm having trouble landing the dthrow->fair spike. Is it percentage dependent? Opponent DI dependent? I can usually do it on larger characters, but smaller ones I either miss completely or hit them with a different hitbox of the fair, often the upward-hitting one.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

How to d-throw combo floaties? Regrab at very low %s is fine but then. Nana side-b doesn't really lead to a regrab, I havent that much success with Ice Block ( regrab probably only works on bad DI against floaties). Maybe just fair or is Blizzard an option?

 

[KingDozie]

I'm having trouble landing the dthrow->fair spike. Is it percentage dependent? Opponent DI dependent? I can usually do it on larger characters, but smaller ones I either miss completely or hit them with a different hitbox of the fair, often the upward-hitting one.

Try doing Fthrow to Fair and i also like up throw to fair as well but it doesn't always work.