Legend of Zelda I think I'm growing out of Zelda...

[Grim Tuesday]

So one of the first games I played was OoT for the 64 (I'm only a young'un) and I loved the game. I played MM too and loved it even more. I grew up playing some of the older Zelda games like OoA, LA, and aLttP. I bought WW and TP for Gamecube, and enjoyed both of them. Yet neither lived up to MM and OoT for me. I got PH when it came out and... was pretty disappoined in the easyness and lack of depth in the game.

Now, pre-TP I've always been a die-hard Nintendo fanboy, and not owning any non-nintendo consoles. Portal was one of the first non-nintendo games I bought and really got stuck into, this lead me to Steam and I've been addicted to FPS games ever since. I found myself not getting ST when it came out, and I still haven't bought it. I played it at my friend's house and just couldn't find any enjoyment out of it (apart from convincing my friend's little brother that he could find a hidden triforce shard in each dungeon, prompting him to replay each dungeon and search for the hidden pieces). And I'm not too sure that the new Zelda game will live up to my expectations either.

Now, looking back, I can say that I would only have the patience to play MM again, any of the others would just bore me. I'm asking you fellow Zelda-fans, have I out-grown Zelda? Is this just a phase I'm going through? Has anyone else experienced something similar?

 

[Spire]

It's hard for me to play the games any more because they're all feeling too redundant, unenthusiastic, and easy in comparison to more contemporary games. That is why I'm looking forward to Zelda Wii so much because I want Nintendo to break through so many bounds that have been created since OoT. You're not alone.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

It's hard for me to play the games any more because they're all feeling too redundant, unenthusiastic, and easy in comparison to more contemporary games. That is why I'm looking forward to Zelda Wii so much because I want Nintendo to break through so many bounds that have been created since OoT. You're not alone.

I agree completely. I want a new, difficult, original Zelda game with an in-depth story and less redundant gameplay. As a game designer myself, I naturally formulate ideas on what I'd like in a Zelda game, I have them stored in a .txt on the computer somewhere, so I feel I'm going to be disappointed by the new Zelda anyway because I have such high expectations and wants.

 

[Luigitoilet]

I don't really get this topic.

Twilight Princess and the two DS games are mediocre-to-bad games. Nintendo failed to innovate Zelda the way they've innovated Mario. The series is beginning to stagnate and become redundant at this point. As for the older games, many Zelda fans have played several of the games over and over again. Of course this is going to make these games redundant and easy. I don't think it's a case of "growing out" of the series but a combination of becoming too familiar with the older games, and Nintendo not taking the series anywhere. They've got to innovate hardcore with Zelda Wii or they're going to lose many devoted fans.

 

[Spire]

I agree completely. I want a new, difficult, original Zelda game with an in-depth story and less redundant gameplay. As a game designer myself, I naturally formulate ideas on what I'd like in a Zelda game, I have them stored in a .txt on the computer somewhere, so I feel I'm going to be disappointed by the new Zelda anyway because I have such high expectations and wants.

Care to share the ideas in your .txt doc? I'd surely like to see what you've come up with.

I don't really get this topic.

Twilight Princess and the two DS games are mediocre-to-bad games. Nintendo failed to innovate Zelda the way they've innovated Mario. The series is beginning to stagnate and become redundant at this point. As for the older games, many Zelda fans have played several of the games over and over again. Of course this is going to make these games redundant and easy. I don't think it's a case of "growing out" of the series but a combination of becoming too familiar with the older games, and Nintendo not taking the series anywhere. They've got to innovate hardcore with Zelda Wii or they're going to lose many devoted fans.

I think you understood the topic just perfectly then. That what both Grim and myself were getting at.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Care to share the ideas in your .txt doc? I'd surely like to see what you've come up with.

Sure
• Orchestrated music.
• Larger, more realistic Hyrule.
• Less linear.
• Much darker theme, focus on hopelessness.
• Pieces together some of the secrets left unrevealed in the Zelda Series and maybe reveals the timeline.
• The NPCs will have a different schedule everyday and problems for you to help them with, like in Majora's Mask.
• The weather in-game can be synchronised with real-life weather by connecting to the Weather Channel.
• Multiple difficulty settings.
• Rather than being based after elements, the game's Dungeons are themed around something more original (elements?).
• Compatibility with Wii-Vitality Sensor?
• Lots of new items and weapons the player can use.
• New Shield-Bash attack which stuns enemies, breaks pots, etc...
• Huge dungeons.
• Rather than the Sword and Shield being auto-equipped items, any C-Button items can be equipped instead of the Shield or Sword. Items equipped to R will be used defensivley, items equipped to B will have more complex abilities and items equipped to the C-Buttons will have basic abilities.
• Instead of item's being held above the player's head, the character carries them more normally in his hand.
• Similar plot to the Deluge Project rumor. Set in-between OoT and WW and chronicle the events of the flood (that idea really resonated with me, not sure why) or a new, original plot (not the whole, bad guy wants to take over the world, Link has to stop him with new magical artefact)
• If using that flood idea, the flood should happen in real-time.
• A way of travelling and sidequests that aren't dead boring.
• Not full on steampunk, but more of an influence by it.
• 3D
• Versus Multiplayer (actually fighting, not mini-games) and co-op multiplayer (play through main quest with a friend a la FSA).
• No. Ganon. I am sick of him, he has been used way too much, he is generic (except in WW, he actually is pretty cool there) and lacks any depth. I want a new, better villain.

I have quite a few more specific ideas, like dungeons, bosses, etc... but they aren't at all fleshed out.
The thing I had the most trouble with was trying to think up original and useful item ideas, I have a few, but I don't think they are worth sharing

I think you understood the topic just perfectly then. That what both Grim and myself were getting at..

Yeah, that's what we were getting at. Zelda's getting too redundant for us to enjoy any more.

OFF TOPIC:
Hey Spire, if the new project is a game of some sort, I'd be interested in helping with it.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

It's hard for me to play the games any more because they're all feeling too redundant, unenthusiastic, and easy in comparison to more contemporary games. That is why I'm looking forward to Zelda Wii so much because I want Nintendo to break through so many bounds that have been created since OoT. You're not alone.

Spoken like a true Legend of Zelda fan.
I agree with this statement completely.

 

[Willow's Tara]

Perhaps you just need to take a break? I sometimes get bored of games and then don't touch it for weeks to months even close to years (Like WW or TP, but TP got corrupted and couldn't be bothered doing it all over again). But then when I start playing again or replay it I get right back into it and realize why I love Zelda (So I restart WW and TP.. I think I completed WW but not sure and TP too).

Of course after playing TP I readjust myself to the graphics to MM, OT and WW, although all good looks different for a bit after playing TP so much.

 

[Kingdom Come]

Sure
• Orchestrated music.
• Larger, more realistic Hyrule.
• Less linear.
• Much darker theme, focus on hopelessness.
• Pieces together some of the secrets left unrevealed in the Zelda Series and maybe reveals the timeline.
• The NPCs will have a different schedule everyday and problems for you to help them with, like in Majora's Mask.
• Multiple difficulty settings.
• Compatibility with Wii-Vitality Sensor?
• Lots of new items and weapons the player can use.
• New Shield-Bash attack which stuns enemies, breaks pots, etc...
• Huge dungeons.
• Versus Multiplayer (actually fighting, not mini-games) and co-op multiplayer (play through main quest with a friend a la FSA).

OFF TOPIC:
Hey Spire, if the new project is a game of some sort, I'd be interested in helping with it.

I believe they are doing all of those things. They had the shield bash in TP. Multiplayer in PH and ST. They always come up a with a few new items and weapons. They are definitely making a better story and larger Hyrule. They have changed everything up supposedly. I am just waiting to play this game. Zelda is always good at worst.

And Spire won't reveal his secret to anyone. But since you say you design he might let things slide. This better be an RPG thing. That would be ossimness.

 

[Luigitoilet]

At the least I think orchestrated music is a given, considering Galaxy 1-2's soundtrack.

I just want Shiggy to come back and direct again

 

[Chill]

I came in here to say that you haven't been outgrowing the games they've just been getting worse but it looks like everyone else already agrees with that.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I believe they are doing all of those things. They had the shield bash in TP. Multiplayer in PH and ST. They always come up a with a few new items and weapons. They are definitely making a better story and larger Hyrule. They have changed everything up supposedly. I am just waiting to play this game. Zelda is always good at worst.

And Spire won't reveal his secret to anyone. But since you say you design he might let things slide. This better be an RPG thing. That would be ossimness.

They had Shield Bash in TP? I mustn't have been paying attention.
Multiplayer in PH wasn't very good imo, it was just like playing pacman with Zelda characters, I've never played ST's multiplayer. How do you know they are making a larger Hyrule?

Well, I don't really mind if Spire doesn't want to spill the beans, just putting the option out there. I'm only in the middle of one project at the moment and that is still in the design stages, so I'm pretty free.

At the least I think orchestrated music is a given, considering Galaxy 1-2's soundtrack.

I just want Shiggy to come back and direct again

We all thought orchestrated music was a given for TP, and well...

I came in here to say that you haven't been outgrowing the games they've just been getting worse but it looks like everyone else already agrees with that.

Yup

 

[Kingdom Come]

I can understand you being disappointed by TP. But why were you disappointed with WW the game was so incredibly fun and so many sidequests. The story was perfectly thought out. Gannondorf was a REAL being. Aside from the tedious sailing part I really don't see any faults.....

 

[Luigitoilet]

It was great the first time. But nowadays I don't find any of the dungeons that fun, let alone the boring sailing to a bunch of identical looking islands that had nothing exciting on them most of the time. The end is my favorite of the whole series, outside of Link's Awakening.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I can understand you being disappointed by TP. But why were you disappointed with WW the game was so incredibly fun and so many sidequests. The story was perfectly thought out. Gannondorf was a REAL being. Aside from the tedious sailing part I really don't see any faults.....

• Cartoony graphic-style.
• Sailing.
• Lack of dungeons.
• That stupidly long and tedious fetch-quest halfway through the game.

Apart from that, it was good.

It was great the first time. But nowadays I don't find any of the dungeons that fun, let alone the boring sailing to a bunch of identical looking islands that had nothing exciting on them most of the time. The end is my favorite of the whole series, outside of Link's Awakening.

Agreed.

 

[finalark]

• Cartoony graphic-style.

Kids these days and their "EVERYTHING HAS TO BE F$#@ING GEARS OF WAR" mentality...

Spoiler

No offense to you, just annoys the hell out of me when people hate on WW for it's graphics. God forbid that Nintendo actually try to do something new...

Other than that, everyone has more or less said what I was going to say.

Actually, that's pretty much the reason why I've kind of lost interest in Nintendo. Seriously, these days when I play Zelda I feel like I'm playing OoT with better graphics (which is why I loved WW, it felt like Nintendo was at least trying to do something new), Pokemon has gotten really stale with each game feeling like the same ones I played when I was six (which is why I loved Colosseum, it did things differently), and I got bored of the Fire Emblem shortly after playing Radiant Dawn. It's a **** shame that most Nintendo fans do nothing but complain whenever they change something.

 

[Luigitoilet]

Kids these days and their "EVERYTHING HAS TO BE F$#@ING GEARS OF WAR" mentality...

Spoiler

No offense to you, just annoys the hell out of me when people hate on WW for it's graphics. God forbid that Nintendo actually try to do something new...

Other than that, everyone has more or less said what I was going to say.

Actually, that's pretty much the reason why I've kind of lost interest in Nintendo. Seriously, these days when I play Zelda I feel like I'm playing OoT with better graphics (which is why I loved WW, it felt like Nintendo was at least trying to do something new), Pokemon has gotten really stale with each game feeling like the same ones I played when I was six (which is why I loved Colosseum, it did things differently), and I got bored of the Fire Emblem shortly after playing Radiant Dawn. It's a **** shame that most Nintendo fans do nothing but complain whenever they change something.

Agreed. WW's graphical style is one of the best things about it, not a detriment in any sense. But you realize what you're saying is kind of silly? By "These days when I play Zelda I feel like I'm playing OoT with better graphics". It's obvious you're referring to Twilight Princess, which is one game. The DS games suck, but they don't suck because they're too much like OoT. They just suck for other reasons.

and it's also silly because Majora's Mask is miles better than Wind Waker

 

[finalark]

Agreed. WW's graphical style is one of the best things about it, not a detriment in any sense. But you realize what you're saying is kind of silly? By "These days when I play Zelda I feel like I'm playing OoT with better graphics". It's obvious you're referring to Twilight Princess, which is one game. The DS games suck, but they don't suck because they're too much like OoT. They just suck for other reasons.

and it's also silly because Majora's Mask is miles better than Wind Waker

Well yeah, MM is the best Zelda. I just really liked WW, even though MM is better. And while I did freaking love Twilight Princess, I wasn't actually referring to it directly. I honestly meant most of the games after OoT, seriously, the core game play hasn't changed a bit since then (perhaps baring MM). And the structure of Zelda hasn't been changed since ALttP! And I didn't like the DS Zeldas either. Seriously, making me do everything with the stylus? Lol wat?

TL/DR: TP was awesome, but almost every Zelda since OoT has more or less the same exact game play.

 

[Luigitoilet]

I agree wholeheartedly that the series needs serious innovation. But at the same time, LttP wasn't THAT much of a departure from Zelda 1. Zelda 2 is where the innovation came in, and many people hated/hate it to this day. And at the end of the day, we all still want a recognizable Zelda game. There are fundamentals to the series that just NEED to be there or else its..."not Zelda". I don't think I'm alone feeling that am I?

 

[Spire]

I agree wholeheartedly that the series needs serious innovation. But at the same time, LttP wasn't THAT much of a departure from Zelda 1. Zelda 2 is where the innovation came in, and many people hated/hate it to this day. And at the end of the day, we all still want a recognizable Zelda game. There are fundamentals to the series that just NEED to be there or else its..."not Zelda". I don't think I'm alone feeling that am I?

People felt the same about MM because it followed heavily in AoL's footsteps. I often draw the analogy:

LoZ : OoT :: AoL : MM

You are not alone. If the rumors so far about Zelda Wii are true, then it sounds like they're sticking to the fundamentals while changing quite a bit up, essentially placing it in AoL/MM tier.

 

[finalark]

I agree wholeheartedly that the series needs serious innovation. But at the same time, LttP wasn't THAT much of a departure from Zelda 1. Zelda 2 is where the innovation came in, and many people hated/hate it to this day. And at the end of the day, we all still want a recognizable Zelda game. There are fundamentals to the series that just NEED to be there or else its..."not Zelda". I don't think I'm alone feeling that am I?

I do agree with you there, keeping familiar themes and game play elements is important to a franchise. But as you and I agree on, the series needs innovation. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you need to completely revamp the game play in sequels, what I'm saying is that it's good to mix things up a bit. As you said, ALttP wasn't too different from Zelda 1, but what it did do was kept what worked while adding and changing many game play elements to create a new experience.

Also, I actually liked Zelda II...

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Kids these days and their "EVERYTHING HAS TO BE F$#@ING GEARS OF WAR" mentality...

Spoiler

No offense to you, just annoys the hell out of me when people hate on WW for it's graphics. God forbid that Nintendo actually try to do something new...

Other than that, everyone has more or less said what I was going to say.

Actually, that's pretty much the reason why I've kind of lost interest in Nintendo. Seriously, these days when I play Zelda I feel like I'm playing OoT with better graphics (which is why I loved WW, it felt like Nintendo was at least trying to do something new), Pokemon has gotten really stale with each game feeling like the same ones I played when I was six (which is why I loved Colosseum, it did things differently), and I got bored of the Fire Emblem shortly after playing Radiant Dawn. It's a **** shame that most Nintendo fans do nothing but complain whenever they change something.

It doesn't have to be gears of war, I just don't like the graphic style. Just like some people may not play Mad World because it's in black and white.

[rant]
Also, you need to think of it from the pro-non-changingl fans point of view. They feel that they like Zelda as it is (that's what makes them fans) and then they have this minority (as you pointed out in your post) who want to change the game.

Myself, I want the series to be changed, but it is just a case of differing opinion. Imagine if the majority of Zelda fans wanted the series to change, then it didn't change because of the views of a minority, the majority would be pretty annoyed wouldn't they? This is why MM wasn't very well received by a lot of people, it was different when the fans wanted the same.
[/rant]

But most intelligent fans seem to be pro-change now, which is good.

 

[Untrust Us]

I loved Twilight Princess. Visually and gameplay wise.

 

[Luigitoilet]

Also, Wind Waker was only an innovation aesthetically/graphically. It's the same game style as OoT, with less exploration. People seem to talk about WW as if it's a radically different direction for the series but gameplay-wise it really isn't at all. Gameplay is where I want to see the change.

 

[Reg15]

Also, Wind Waker was only an innovation aesthetically/graphically. It's the same game style as OoT, with less exploration. People seem to talk about WW as if it's a radically different direction for the series but gameplay-wise it really isn't at all. Gameplay is where I want to see the change.

Wind Waker has to be one of the best Zelda games ive ever beaten.

 

[Luigitoilet]

that's fine, your taste is your taste, but you can't really say it was a radical departure from the norm or anything.

 

[Reg15]

Yea but still. One of the best including Ocarina.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

Okay so, I went into Zelda world a few months ago, actually a long time ago, the start of the school year this year.

Anyways I beat Zelda: Link to the Past and noticed why it, the first one, oracle of ages/seasons (I'm a direhard fan of those Capcom games), and maybe OoT were so good. They were hard. Moreso the 2D ones, they were hard. I'm talking throw a couch into the ceiling hard. (to me, anyways) Maybe that's why I've liked Final Fantasy XII so much lately... anyways:

I noticed afterwards OoT was much easier, yet still an amazing game. Then the Windwaker kind of gave us a way less-linear new direction, and Toon Link is my favorite Nintendo character.

Alas though, the DS games are pathetically easy and mediocre at best. Honestly the Capcom games are the only two good handheld titles. (Any hardcore minish cap people here?)

All this too say I believe the lack of difficulty was what deteriorated the love for Zelda. Making it less linear is always a great idea, god I hate FFXIII for what they did, but I don't think linearity is the sole reason, maybe 25%. I'd say the rest is difficulty, the old hard ones were the best.

The only reason OoT is so lovable is storyline, Link is older, 3d, etc combined with a decent difficulty. If the older games had the visuals and storyline, they'd be even better. Windwaker would've been the best had it been harder. And now TP shows us the difficulty has yet to rise. To me, there is no bad Zelda game, but it is going to get boring until they make it hard.

And you know, if they want to make it easier for the young people, just make difficulty settings, is that really so hard to do? >_> Hypermode Link lets go!

 

[Luigitoilet]

Okay so, I went into Zelda world a few months ago, actually a long time ago, the start of the school year this year.

Anyways I beat Zelda: Link to the Past and noticed why it, the first one, oracle of ages/seasons (I'm a direhard fan of those Capcom games), and maybe OoT were so good. They were hard. Moreso the 2D ones, they were hard. I'm talking throw a couch into the ceiling hard. (to me, anyways) Maybe that's why I've liked Final Fantasy XII so much lately... anyways:

I noticed afterwards OoT was much easier, yet still an amazing game. Then the Windwaker kind of gave us a way less-linear new direction, and Toon Link is my favorite Nintendo character.

Alas though, the DS games are pathetically easy and mediocre at best. Honestly the Capcom games are the only two good handheld titles. (Any hardcore minish cap people here?)

All this too say I believe the lack of difficulty was what deteriorated the love for Zelda. Making it less linear is always a great idea, god I hate FFXIII for what they did, but I don't think linearity is the sole reason, maybe 25%. I'd say the rest is difficulty, the old hard ones were the best.

The only reason OoT is so lovable is storyline, Link is older, 3d, etc combined with a decent difficulty. If the older games had the visuals and storyline, they'd be even better. Windwaker would've been the best had it been harder. And now TP shows us the difficulty has yet to rise. To me, there is no bad Zelda game, but it is going to get boring until they make it hard.

And you know, if they want to make it easier for the young people, just make difficulty settings, is that really so hard to do? >_> Hypermode Link lets go!

That is complete heresy. The Oracle games are good but don't hold a candle to Link's Awakening. They wouldn't even exist WITHOUT Link's Awakening...and plus, they're just not as good. Minish Cap is worse than the Oracle games.

But yes, I hope they go the Galaxy 2 route with at least a decent amount of challenge with the option to find very difficult parts if you seek them.

I also wouldn't mind a Cosmic Guide thing like in Galaxy 2. I hated the concept of the game playing itself for crappy players, but they implemented it perfectly.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

I'm sorry but I never got to play Link's Awakening. IIRC it's a GB game, yes? <.< Bet it's so rare I can't find it...

 

[Luigitoilet]

yeah. There was an enhanced remake for Gameboy Color as well. I wonder why they haven't remade it for any of the other GB's.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

Hmm. Seems like I'm going to go on a quest to obtain it. >_>

 

[Grim Tuesday]

IMO, they go like this (in order of awesomeness):
MM > OoT > LA > aLttP > WW > TP > MC > OoA/OoS > PH > ST > FSA > AOL

Maybe swapping around aLttP with WW, this is of course only my opinion.

 

[MuraRengan]

I fail to see the decreasing value in Zelda games. I thoroughly enjoyed TP and felt that it did very much for the series. It was the first game in which the story's points of interest were mainly in the other characters. IT revamped the styles of all the characters, and created an atmosphere appropriate for the nature of it's story. It incorporated the Twili idea with excellence and had an amazing story. As far as progressing the series goes, I don't see what it lacks.

PH and ST naturally won't be as good as one of the major console titles because they're DS games. But what you have to look at is their worth as a DS game. I guess I'm one of the few that enjoyed TS (I actually like it more than PH.) The train thing was a strange idea, btu they definitely pulled it off. Some will disagree, btu the gameplay was far from easy. The use of the touch screen made for innovation in puzzles.

What I see from Nintendo in the Zelda series is constant improvement on an excellent formula. I consider OoT to be the best game of all time, but even still, I think people get so caught up in how good it was that they can't judge another title in the series independently. Honestly, comparing TP to OoT, TP would win in terms of story, gameplay, and graphics. OoT gets such acclaim because it was revolutionary in a time where video games were still in a state of infancy. As gaming progresses, there's naturally gonna be less games that are as revolutionary as OoT, and to judge games based on how much ground they break is unfair. OoT set the standard for all the games that follow it, but the honest truth is that the games are getting much better.

I play every Zelda like it was my first one.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I fail to see the decreasing value in Zelda games. I thoroughly enjoyed TP and felt that it did very much for the series. It was the first game in which the story's points of interest were mainly in the other characters. IT revamped the styles of all the characters, and created an atmosphere appropriate for the nature of it's story. It incorporated the Twili idea with excellence and had an amazing story. As far as progressing the series goes, I don't see what it lacks.

PH and ST naturally won't be as good as one of the major console titles because they're DS games. But what you have to look at is their worth as a DS game. I guess I'm one of the few that enjoyed TS (I actually like it more than PH.) The train thing was a strange idea, btu they definitely pulled it off. Some will disagree, btu the gameplay was far from easy. The use of the touch screen made for innovation in puzzles.

What I see from Nintendo in the Zelda series is constant improvement on an excellent formula. I consider OoT to be the best game of all time, but even still, I think people get so caught up in how good it was that they can't judge another title in the series independently. Honestly, comparing TP to OoT, TP would win in terms of story, gameplay, and graphics. OoT gets such acclaim because it was revolutionary in a time where video games were still in a state of infancy. As gaming progresses, there's naturally gonna be less games that are as revolutionary as OoT, and to judge games based on how much ground they break is unfair. OoT set the standard for all the games that follow it, but the honest truth is that the games are getting much better.

I play every Zelda like it was my first one.

TP lacks difficulty and originality. It is pretty much OoT 2.0 for Casual Gamers.
LA was one of the best Zelda games ever made, and that was on the Gameboy! The DS games suffer the same problem as TP, but are even easier. I didn't really like any of the characters and the dungeons and items all felt boring to me.
I disagree about TP>OoT, looking up any review of the games should explain why.

 

[MuraRengan]

OoT wasn't particularly difficult, and originality can be derived from many different aspects. TP had the following things that other Zelda games didn't:

Revamped/ More realiztic designs of characters
Inclusion of Twili
Considerably deeper story than previous titles
New Items
New Central characters
Arguably the best boss battles of the whole series

I'm sure that most of the things you consider unoriginal can found in OoT or are outweighed by the other original things in TP.

Also, I don't think TP is better than OoT because OoT revolutionized the series. There's just no denying that the games have been improving.

 

[Luigitoilet]

OoT wasn't particularly difficult, and originality can be derived from many different aspects. TP had the following things that other Zelda games didn't:

Revamped/ More realiztic designs of characters
Inclusion of Twili
Considerably deeper story than previous titles
New Items
New Central characters
Arguably the best boss battles of the whole series

I'm sure that most of the things you consider unoriginal can found in OoT or are outweighed by the other original things in TP.

Also, I don't think TP is better than OoT because OoT revolutionized the series. There's just no denying that the games have been improving.

-Revamped designs and graphics are a given for any new installment of an old series.
-Including the Twili doesn't improve the game specifically.
- The story is irrelevant, and it really isn't that great anyways.
-New Items? Well, geez I would hope that a new Zelda game would have new items, just like every Zelda game before it has done.
-I personally found all the new characters very bland and homogeneous.
-I barely remember any of the boss fights from TP so I can't comment except that they were all pretty forgettable.

Beyond that, TP takes absolute ages to even get started. The graphics are lifeless, colorless and muddy. The game has no personality beyond "OoT, but bigger!". Ganon is shoehorned into the game for no reason. The Hyrule Field is by far the worst one in the whole series. etc etc ad nauseum

 

[MuraRengan]

-Revamped designs and graphics are a given for any new installment of an old series.
-Including the Twili doesn't improve the game specifically.
- The story is irrelevant, and it really isn't that great anyways.
-New Items? Well, geez I would hope that a new Zelda game would have new items, just like every Zelda game before it has done.
-I personally found all the new characters very bland and homogeneous.
-I barely remember any of the boss fights from TP so I can't comment except that they were all pretty forgettable.

Beyond that, TP takes absolute ages to even get started. The graphics are lifeless, colorless and muddy. The game has no personality beyond "OoT, but bigger!". Ganon is shoehorned into the game for no reason. The Hyrule Field is by far the worst one in the whole series. etc etc ad nauseum

-In that case, OoT's 3D advancement is irrelevant.
-The Twili are a completely new race who play a major role in the story. How does this not improve the game?
-Irrelevant? You're saying that the story does not play a major part in how good the game is? Are you serious? TP's story was much more extensive in comparison to other Zelda, including OoT.
-In that case, OoT's new items are irrelevant.
-And OoT's characters had depth? Show me where.
-Nothing I can say to that, you probably remember OoT's fights more than TP's because you never gave TP a chance.

The only valid points you've given are that of Ganon's inclusion and hyrule field. Tell me exactly what OoT's strengths are since you feel so strongly.

 

[Luigitoilet]

-In that case, OoT's 3D advancement is irrelevant.
-The Twili are a completely new race who play a major role in the story. How does this not improve the game?
-Irrelevant? You're saying that the story does not play a major part in how good the game is? Are you serious? TP's story was much more extensive in comparison to other Zelda, including OoT.
-In that case, OoT's new items are irrelevant.
-And OoT's characters had depth? Show me where.
-Nothing I can say to that, you probably remember OoT's fights more than TP's because you never gave TP a chance.

The only valid points you've given are that of Ganon's inclusion and hyrule field. Tell me exactly what OoT's strengths are since you feel so strongly.

-No it isn't. Adding a new spatial dimension is a totally different thing than more detailed textures. Nothing about the graphical advances of TP changed the gameplay.
-I don't judge games on stories.
- Yes, I'm serious. Zelda is Zelda because of its archetypal nature. The more Nintendo tries to make a unique story, the more sour the series becomes. I can't quantify this statement, it's just how I feel about games and game design. Zelda shouldn't be trying to approximate other mediums. It should be innovating inside its own medium, i.e. gameplay. Mario Galaxy 2 is an example of what I feel is the most progressive form of game design. All but completely took away the story, 100% focus on new and interesting gameplay ideas.
-I suppose you're sort of correct about that in a general sense, but I just feel like TP had nothing very special to add in terms of items. There was the chain n ball, that was cool. But then there's stuff like The Spinner and Dominion Rod which are decent concepts that are basically used solely in the dungeons you find them.
-Not depth, but they came alive as vibrant and seperate characters, rather than just mundane props for villages and plot points. Again this is just the way I feel.
-I played through all of TP. It was the first Zelda where I had to struggle to finish. I wanted to love it, I even pretended I did for as long as I could but at the end of the day it's an exercise in mediocrity.

edit: I'm not an OoT fanboy. I'm a Majora's Mask fanboy.

 

[MuraRengan]

-No it isn't. Adding a new spatial dimension is a totally different thing than more detailed textures. Nothing about the graphical advances of TP changed the gameplay.
-I don't judge games on stories.
- Yes, I'm serious. Zelda is Zelda because of its archetypal nature. The more Nintendo tries to make a unique story, the more sour the series becomes. I can't quantify this statement, it's just how I feel about games and game design. Zelda shouldn't be trying to approximate other mediums. It should be innovating inside its own medium, i.e. gameplay. Mario Galaxy 2 is an example of what I feel is the most progressive form of game design. All but completely took away the story, 100% focus on new and interesting gameplay ideas.
-I suppose you're sort of correct about that in a general sense, but I just feel like TP had nothing very special to add in terms of items. There was the chain n ball, that was cool. But then there's stuff like The Spinner and Dominion Rod which are decent concepts that are basically used solely in the dungeons you find them.
-Not depth, but they came alive as vibrant and seperate characters, rather than just mundane props for villages and plot points. Again this is just the way I feel.
-I played through all of TP. It was the first Zelda where I had to struggle to finish. I wanted to love it, I even pretended I did for as long as I could but at the end of the day it's an exercise in mediocrity.

edit: I'm not an OoT fanboy. I'm a Majora's Mask fanboy.

-So what? No game is obligated to update it's graphics or go 3D, it's just a natural course in advancing developments. It was bound to happen.
-Funny how you can be a MM fanboy and not value a storyline. Storylines are as important to games as anything else.
-Zelda is Zelda because of it's storylines as well. It's the only thing that sets MM apart from OoT, and the only thing that sets other Zeldas apart. Mario Galaxy 2 is an atrocious milking of a cash cow and nothing more, using all kinds of gimmicks in order to make gameplay more varied. Taking the story out of the games removes a vital element of personal growth, much like reading a book. I don't see what's wrong with having gameplay and a story, and Zelda certainly does a good job with both. If you see no worth in the story of a game, then you clearly don't understand the intent of the game itself (unless you're playing tetris.) Nintendo has shown in many ways that the stories of their games, especially Zelda, are very important. You should know this very well, given the plethora of obvious messages in MM.
-All of those items were reused in sidequests throughout the game. You'd know that if you'd played at all after the end og the game.
-With depth comes personality, but you seem to enjoy characters with fabricated personality and no backstory. Clearly, you don't take your games as seriously as I do.
-I've yet to play a Zelda game that I haven't thoroughly enjoyed. TP was far from mediocre.

You're a MM fan, fine. What are it's strong points? I consider MM to be the best game ever made, but that's because of the story. So I wonder what you could possibly see in it to consider it better than OoT. My best bet yould be the mask-sidequest system.