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"I need a weapon" - Master Chief

Lionfranky

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I’m keeping my fingers crossed for a Switch port, I’d 100% buy it again. & at that point, there’d be absolutely nothing stopping them from putting Chief into Smash.
The only true obstacle is Japanese market... but I already addressed that issue again and again. I don't think Halo and Banjo are in world of difference there.

And if there is fp3 on the way, Chief is as good as deconfirmed for this pass. Because I doubt they would unload heavy hitters all at once in the same pass.
 

MattX20

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Chief's only shot at this point is a third Fighter Pass, and even then, he still faces competition from Doomslayer for a potential FPS rep since Microsoft owns them both now
 

Lionfranky

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Chief's only shot at this point is a third Fighter Pass, and even then, he still faces competition from Doomslayer for a potential FPS rep since Microsoft owns them both now
I think MS owning ID Soft makes Chief even more likely. MS has all the reason to put Chief over Slayer. Master Chief is their true mascot, so they would want to choose their poster boy over someone who just recently joined. This situation is entirely different from either Banjo or Steve, so don't bring those two as counter examples.
I think Nintendo would also choose Chief as Halo is still overall more financially attractive series to promote.
 

Ridley_Prime

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I think Nintendo would choose Doom given the rich history the series has had with their platforms, but whose to say. MS would choose Halo though no doubt. Sakurai also has a part in choosing, who to be fair credited John Carmack as the father of FPS’s.

I personally am ready for this DLC speculation era to be over soon regardless of who the last three characters are, and whether either green supersoldier is among them or not. Already feels like this cycle has gone on plenty long enough, and a 3rd wave of DLC would amount to over 5 years of Ultimate being worked on post-launch, which is longer than most games have been supported. If Sakurai changes his mind about ending on pass 2 and does another one I’ll respect it, but the former is my preference. Gotta leave some character options for a next game too, yeah? Unless they’re just gonna future proof Ultimate I guess.
 
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Lionfranky

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It's still iffy that how much Nintendo history matters... especially with Joker on board.

And I think it would be better to turn Ultimate into live service game like platform... in line with GTA Online, Fortnite, etc. That way, people can still hope for their characters. Sakurai can just pass the seat to his successor.
 

ceterisparibus

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Chief's only shot at this point is a third Fighter Pass, and even then, he still faces competition from Doomslayer for a potential FPS rep since Microsoft owns them both now
I think MS owning ID Soft makes Chief even more likely. MS has all the reason to put Chief over Slayer. Master Chief is their true mascot, so they would want to choose their poster boy over someone who just recently joined. This situation is entirely different from either Banjo or Steve, so don't bring those two as counter examples.
I think Nintendo would also choose Chief as Halo is still overall more financially attractive series to promote.
The better way to put it is that Nintendo tends to prioritize the biggest stars of their respective genres as the first inclusions - we've seen that with Street fighter over SNK and FF7 over any other FF/DQ, despite DQ being the one with more "history" and nintendo connection.
"Legacy" and "history with nintendo" tends to be overplayed, especially when you look at how most of the big inclusions tend to be first and foremost the ones with the biggest sales in their franchise.
Of course, this could easily mean fortnite (which i can see happening first too) as the first FPS rep if it continues its trend.

I think Nintendo would choose Doom given the rich history the series has had with their platforms, but whose to say. MS would choose Halo though no doubt. Sakurai also has a part in choosing, who to be fair credited John Carmack as the father of FPS’s.

I personally am ready for this DLC speculation era to be over soon regardless of who the last three characters are, and whether either green supersoldier is among them or not. Already feels like this cycle has gone on plenty long enough, and a 3rd wave of DLC would amount to over 5 years of Ultimate being worked on post-launch, which is longer than most games have been supported. If Sakurai changes his mind about ending on pass 2 and does another one I’ll respect it, but the former is my preference. Gotta leave some character options for a next game too, yeah? Unless they’re just gonna future proof Ultimate I guess.
He name-dropped carmack while listing a whole list of game devs born in a certain year (some of whom have not seen their games in smash either) so i dunno why people keep using that statement as an endorsement. And carmack made a lot of different FPS games, not just doom.
Plus as i mentioned earlier, if history was the defining reason we wouldn't have gotten Snake, cloud or persona. It's pretty indicative they go for worldwide recognizability and popularity, especially when they double dipped on FF7 instead of going for a FF rep with more "nintendo connection".
 

Lionfranky

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The better way to put it is that Nintendo tends to prioritize the biggest stars of their respective genres as the first inclusions - we've seen that with Street fighter over SNK and FF7 over any other FF/DQ, despite DQ being the one with more "history" and nintendo connection.
"Legacy" and "history with nintendo" tends to be overplayed, especially when you look at how most of the big inclusions tend to be first and foremost the ones with the biggest sales in their franchise.
Of course, this could easily mean fortnite (which i can see happening first too) as the first FPS rep if it continues its trend.
Steve kinda deconfirms Jonesy because I highly doubt Sakurai would put two characters that share the same gimmick in the same pass. Fortnite's shtick is gathering materials and buildings stuff on spot just like Minecraft. That's what sets it apart from other shooter. Maybe, later on another pass or next Smash if it really comes out, but not on in this pass. And I also seriously doubt Sakurai would want to repeat hellish coding process of every stage. Steve was already pushing far enough.
 
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ivanlerma

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It's still iffy that how much Nintendo history matters... especially with Joker on board.

And I think it would be better to turn Ultimate into live service game like platform... in line with GTA Online, Fortnite, etc. That way, people can still hope for their characters. Sakurai can just pass the seat to his successor.
I feel that turning Smash Ultimate into what those games are could ruin it for some and make it unaccusable for so many for a the time when online stops for it.
 

SpectreJordan

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I think Nintendo would choose Doom given the rich history the series has had with their platforms, but whose to say. MS would choose Halo though no doubt. Sakurai also has a part in choosing, who to be fair credited John Carmack as the father of FPS’s.

I personally am ready for this DLC speculation era to be over soon regardless of who the last three characters are, and whether either green supersoldier is among them or not. Already feels like this cycle has gone on plenty long enough, and a 3rd wave of DLC would amount to over 5 years of Ultimate being worked on post-launch, which is longer than most games have been supported. If Sakurai changes his mind about ending on pass 2 and does another one I’ll respect it, but the former is my preference. Gotta leave some character options for a next game too, yeah? Unless they’re just gonna future proof Ultimate I guess.
Its not too far off from where Tekken 7 & Street Fighter V are at though. I could see Sakurai wanting to give Smash a simile treatment to those two series.
 

Ridley_Prime

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It’s interesting how some people say history with Nintendo or games being on Nintendo platforms doesn’t matter much, yet also say Chief will be good as confirmed for Smash in the off chance that MCC does somehow get ported for Switch... Almost as though y’all are trying to create some double standard for Chief, downplaying Nintendo history in the case of Doom and others since there aren’t any Halo games on Nintendo right now. (And Doom is easily the most recognizable of Carmack's games)

So does a series being well associated with Nintendo hardware matter or doesn’t it? Or just when it's convenient for you/Chief?

Oh, far as sales, Banjo's series is much lower than Halo's, and he still got in first. Nintendo connection isn't the end all be all, no, but it was certainly a factor for him. Some characters can and do get in on that merit, while others can without. It's not mutually exclusive.
 
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ceterisparibus

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It’s interesting how some people say history with Nintendo or games being on Nintendo platforms doesn’t matter much, yet also say Chief will be good as confirmed for Smash in the off chance that MCC does somehow get ported for Switch... Almost as though y’all are trying to create some double standard for Chief, downplaying Nintendo history in the case of Doom and others since there aren’t any Halo games on Nintendo right now. (And Doom is easily the most recognizable of Carmack's games)

So does a series being well associated with Nintendo hardware matter or doesn’t it? Or just when it's convenient for you/Chief?

Oh, far as sales, Banjo's series is much lower than Halo's, and he still got in first. Nintendo connection isn't the end all be all, no, but it was certainly a factor for him. Some characters can and do get in on that merit, while others can without. It's not mutually exclusive.
Before you try to get in with a gotcha - no, i've never thought that nintendo history has ever been a determining factor for whether a character gets in, and the current inclusions have been more or less consistent with that. And the context in which i speak in is tied to the first reps from a franchise where they clearly go for the biggest ones - in which case Halo and Fortnite stand out (you can even make a case for Overwatch!). Banjo isn't applicable in this case.

Did nintendo history factor in for Solid Snake and Final fantasy? The 2 standout stars of their respective genres? We didn't get SNK or DQ over the others first for the fighting/JRPG genres - which indicates a preference for the most iconic stuff irregardless of the nintendo connection. Heck, we got 2 reps from the most iconic JRPG instead of terra or black mage where they had games on nintendo consoles!

also fun fact he mentioned carmack as the "father of FPS" which is more indicative of his work on the first FPS wolfenstein (and nintendo choosing the pass alongside with him!)
 

Ridley_Prime

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Fortnite I don't really see getting in now for the reasons Lionfranky pointed out. Halo, sure, but Overwatch? lmao, Crash has a bigger case for him out of Activision.

Would Bayonetta have even been considered for Smash if Nintendo didn't acquire her and she was just left with her one game on the PS3/360? If Banjo wasn't originally an N64 platformer would he have been on the radar for people as he was? Nintendo connection has played a factor for some characters getting in, it's just indisputable. The same is also true for others being big enough to get in without a prior Nintendo history. Again, is not mutually exclusive. Sakurai likes what he likes, although Street Fighter to my memory has been on Nintendo more than SNK, but it got in first and foremost because it's the bigger fighting series.

Doom is more iconic than Wolfenstein. The Sakurai Carmack namedrop can really be taken as a complement to either series, though I guess after how I've seen you post in the Doomguy thread, hell forbid Doom having anything going for it.
 

ceterisparibus

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Fortnite I don't really see getting in now for the reasons Lionfranky pointed out. Halo, sure, but Overwatch? lmao, Crash has a bigger case for him out of Activision.

Would Bayonetta have even been considered for Smash if Nintendo didn't acquire her and she was just left with her one game on the PS3/360? If Banjo wasn't originally an N64 platformer would he have been on the radar for people as he was? Nintendo connection has played a factor for some characters getting in, it's just indisputable. The same is also true for others being big enough to get in without a prior Nintendo history. Again, is not mutually exclusive. Sakurai likes what he likes, although Street Fighter to my memory has been on Nintendo more than SNK, but it got in first and foremost because it's the bigger fighting series.

Doom is more iconic than Wolfenstein. The Sakurai Carmack namedrop can really be taken as a complement to either series, though I guess after how I've seen you post in the Doomguy thread, hell forbid Doom having anything going for it.
You keep ignoring the point so i'm not going to keep at it anymore - but i'm just going to say it one more time to re-emphasis that i'm referring to the first character from said genre, not just how characters are being chosen in a vacuum. In which you explicitly agreed by stating Street fighter being included first because its the bigger series.
(I'm talking about future smash entitles, not just ultimate and FP2 mind you. So yea fortnite is relevant. And overwatch having 50 million players isn't relevant to the topic of an FPS rep?
It's as simple as sakurai listing a whole bunch of devs born from a year (of whom some of them have not gotten their characters in either) and he randomly mentioning carmack, who has developed a whole bunch of games. That's it. It's not an explicit endorsement to DOOM, sakurai can still like the game for all we know but it's not a strong point. If i really wanted to dig into articles i'll find one where sakurai explicitly praised Half-life 2. That's a lot more "proof" of a game that sakurai likes, isn't it?

Also if you want to dig up my post history i did say that i see doom being one of the frontliners, but there are other FPS franchises with a better shot at it. How is that "forbid doom for having anything going for it"? If you want to post stuff go for it, just be prepared for people to discuss about it. Isn't it as simple as that?
 
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IanTheGamer

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You keep ignoring the point so i'm not going to keep at it anymore - but i'm just going to say it one more time to re-emphasis that i'm referring to the first character from said genre, not just how characters are being chosen in a vacuum. In which you explicitly agreed by stating Street fighter being included first because its the bigger series.
(I'm talking about future smash entitles, not just ultimate and FP2 mind you. So yea fortnite is relevant. And overwatch having 50 million players isn't relevant to the topic of an FPS rep?
It's as simple as sakurai listing a whole bunch of devs born from a year (of whom some of them have not gotten their characters in either) and he randomly mentioning carmack, who has developed a whole bunch of games. That's it. It's not an explicit endorsement to DOOM, sakurai can still like the game for all we know but it's not a strong point. If i really wanted to dig into articles i'll find one where sakurai explicitly praised Half-life 2. That's a lot more "proof" of a game that sakurai likes, isn't it?

Also if you want to dig up my post history i did say that i see doom being one of the frontliners, but there are other FPS franchises with a better shot at it. How is that "forbid doom for having anything going for it"? If you want to post stuff go for it, just be prepared for people to discuss about it. Isn't it as simple as that?
Sakurai also is stated to have liked Halo 2
 

Ridley_Prime

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You keep ignoring the point so i'm not going to keep at it anymore - but i'm just going to say it one more time to re-emphasis that i'm referring to the first character from said genre, not just how characters are being chosen in a vacuum. In which you explicitly agreed by stating Street fighter being included first because its the bigger series.
(I'm talking about future smash entitles, not just ultimate and FP2 mind you. So yea fortnite is relevant. And overwatch having 50 million players isn't relevant to the topic of an FPS rep?
It's as simple as sakurai listing a whole bunch of devs born from a year (of whom some of them have not gotten their characters in either) and he randomly mentioning carmack, who has developed a whole bunch of games. That's it. It's not an explicit endorsement to DOOM, sakurai can still like the game for all we know but it's not a strong point. If i really wanted to dig into articles i'll find one where sakurai explicitly praised Half-life 2. That's a lot more "proof" of a game that sakurai likes, isn't it?

Also if you want to dig up my post history i did say that i see doom being one of the frontliners, but there are other FPS franchises with a better shot at it. How is that "forbid doom for having anything going for it"? If you want to post stuff go for it, just be prepared for people to discuss about it. Isn't it as simple as that?
Well in that context, sure, Fortnite has a fair shot in the future, but if Overwatch was going to be in Smash, think it would've been in by now. Not to rule it out completely, but point remains about Crash Bandicoot being a bigger pick for Activision than anyone from Overwatch.

Sakurai likes a lot of things, but doesn't necessarily mean they'll be in Smash, yeah. Even if he explicitly said he liked Doom I wouldn't say it'd be a sure thing for Doom. Just pointed out that him mentioning Carmack was praiseworthy, from one developer to another. For another example Sakurai really liked Nier Automata, but in the end we got Sephiroth over 2B for another Square character. I actually forgot he said he liked Halo 2 until Ian brought it up, so that's another cool point, but still.

I don't remember you saying that, so I may have pegged you wrong based on my memory of the arguments in the other thread, but fair enough. My apologies.
 

SpectreJordan

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It’s interesting how some people say history with Nintendo or games being on Nintendo platforms doesn’t matter much, yet also say Chief will be good as confirmed for Smash in the off chance that MCC does somehow get ported for Switch... Almost as though y’all are trying to create some double standard for Chief, downplaying Nintendo history in the case of Doom and others since there aren’t any Halo games on Nintendo right now. (And Doom is easily the most recognizable of Carmack's games)

So does a series being well associated with Nintendo hardware matter or doesn’t it? Or just when it's convenient for you/Chief?

Oh, far as sales, Banjo's series is much lower than Halo's, and he still got in first. Nintendo connection isn't the end all be all, no, but it was certainly a factor for him. Some characters can and do get in on that merit, while others can without. It's not mutually exclusive.
I don’t think having a Nintendo game is required to get into Smash, especially with how flimsy the cases for Cloud (in Smash 4) & Joker (before Strikers) are. But it does help a bit. I think if Halo got ported to Nintendo, there’d be a decent amount of discussion between MS & Nintendo about it. This could very well lead to Smash as a piece of marketing for both sides.

As for DoomGuy, he’s in my top 5 most wanted characters. So I’d be ecstatic if he got in. I, obviously, want Chief in more due to my personal history with Halo & Chief being a bigger icon (one of my favorite things about Smash). But DoomGuy would be almost as good. I’d be active in his support thread, but I think Id’s comments seemed pretty definitive about his chances.
 

Schnee117

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Shocker: The new place to play is a new map for Halo 3 and the new way to pay is a Custom Game Browser (Note: This isn't shocking at all).


It's still wild that Halo 3 is getting new maps 14 years down the line though

I don’t think having a Nintendo game is required to get into Smash, especially with how flimsy the cases for Cloud (in Smash 4) & Joker (before Strikers) are. But it does help a bit. I think if Halo got ported to Nintendo, there’d be a decent amount of discussion between MS & Nintendo about it. This could very well lead to Smash as a piece of marketing for both sides.

As for DoomGuy, he’s in my top 5 most wanted characters. So I’d be ecstatic if he got in. I, obviously, want Chief in more due to my personal history with Halo & Chief being a bigger icon (one of my favorite things about Smash). But DoomGuy would be almost as good. I’d be active in his support thread, but I think Id’s comments seemed pretty definitive about his chances.
Yeah Cloud's case was essentially just that he was in a couple of Kingdom Hearts games on Game Boy and DS which is pretty much the same as Chief being in Fortnite on Switch. Of course Cloud had Theatrerhythm too but that was literally announced just before his Smash trailer.

At the least a port of some kind shuts up the Nintendo purity bull****.
 

SpectreJordan

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I don’t think he’ll happen tomorrow, he’s definitely an E3/TGAs character. But I’m obviously not arguing if he shows up tomorrow lol

I said this in the General Discussion thread, but I really think we’re getting a FP3 reveal tomorrow. So that would make Chief’s chances skyrocket.
 
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IanTheGamer

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I don’t think he’ll happen tomorrow, he’s definitely an E3/TGAs character. But I’m obviously not arguing if he shows up tomorrow lol

I said this in the General Discussion thread, but I really think we’re getting a FP3 reveal tomorrow. So that would make Chief’s chances skyrocket.
If Halo MCC is revealed tommorrow, Chief becomes a virtual lock for a FP3
 

Houndstooth

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Yeah, I don't suspect Chief tomorrow at all either. Would be a nice surprise.

I really would like to hear an announcement of a 3rd Fighter Pass. Or, like stated before, an official MCC trailer/announcement for the Switch.

Random reach of hope of "New Place to Play" ending up having a double meaning?
 
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Lionfranky

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I know that port or announcement doesn't usually equal inclusion, but Chief's case is super different. Microsoft already put two characters. They allow Switch port, yet let inclusion chance slip away? And Nintendo wouldn't promote on top of that? That doesn't make sense at all.
 

SpectreJordan

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IDK why but the Pyra inclusion makes me more scared for Chief’s chances than Steve ever did. It really hammers home the theory that this Pass is mainly just to finish up some missed opportunities. I really doubt Chief was on the table pre-FP2. There’s still always the chance that they snuck him in & he’s the reason we have 6 characters instead of 5, but I’m worried.

If we don’t get Fighter Pass 3 announced with the next character, then I truly think these last 2 will be it for Ultimate. Fingers crossed, ladies & gentlemen. 🤞
 

Gazorpazorpfield

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IDK why but the Pyra inclusion makes me more scared for Chief’s chances than Steve ever did. It really hammers home the theory that this Pass is mainly just to finish up some missed opportunities. I really doubt Chief was on the table pre-FP2. There’s still always the chance that they snuck him in & he’s the reason we have 6 characters instead of 5, but I’m worried.

If we don’t get Fighter Pass 3 announced with the next character, then I truly think these last 2 will be it for Ultimate. Fingers crossed, ladies & gentlemen. 🤞
Chief's always been a bit of a longshot, having purely western popularity. I assume worldwide notoriety is generally the Smash team's priority, barring outstanding circumstances like with Hero or Ridley (Banjo to a lesser extent; though he was a huge western request, he was still somewhat popular in Japan as well). They'd have to decide on a 100% western fanservice character to go with him, and they may have figured Steve would satisfy westerners enough anyway.

I agree that he's toast if this is about finishing up older deals, although I maintain that they've almost definitely had Chief brought up given the other 2 MS characters and Sakurai's meeting with Phil Spencer. If not in Ultimate, he may be a prime candidate for next game's dlc.
 

One-Winged Bagel

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Chief's always been a bit of a longshot, having purely western popularity. I assume worldwide notoriety is generally the Smash team's priority, barring outstanding circumstances like with Hero or Ridley (Banjo to a lesser extent; though he was a huge western request, he was still somewhat popular in Japan as well). They'd have to decide on a 100% western fanservice character to go with him, and they may have figured Steve would satisfy westerners enough anyway.

I agree that he's toast if this is about finishing up older deals, although I maintain that they've almost definitely had Chief brought up given the other 2 MS characters and Sakurai's meeting with Phil Spencer. If not in Ultimate, he may be a prime candidate for next game's dlc.
It's probably helped that Dragon Quest still is pretty popular in the West too, and very well known. Hero himself less so than Slime, but this could be why Sakurai went with a class. It's a default character that has the core idea reused in tons of RPG's as is. So it's a very sellable character. He also chose someone to represent it first that is worldwide(Luminary), with Erdrick as the secondary costume. Though the interviews suggest he wanted Erdrick as the first one, but it makes sense why the choice went that way. He was surprised he got Eight(massively popular in the West) and Solo(from a game with some unique stuff, so a good final costume).

B&K yeah, worldwide helped. Ridley is from a first party franchise, Metroid, which has a very continued existence right now. Dark Samus, mind you, was both an echo and a fan request. It made a ton of sense why she was added too in that regard.

Master Chief isn't in a similar position, as you said, because he lacks Japanese popularity. Halo is known there, just as others like Mortal Kombat is, etc. However, the inability to much get sales can be problematic. That said, they don't have an issue with outright advertising the Xbox, so it's not even an MK situation. I think he can get in. The fact we got Steve might not matter as much when he's a worldwide and multiplatform character in comparison. Halo isn't. This could be part of why it wasn't as much on the table(not even a Spirit Event or costume, though...).
 

Lionfranky

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It's probably helped that Dragon Quest still is pretty popular in the West too, and very well known. Hero himself less so than Slime, but this could be why Sakurai went with a class. It's a default character that has the core idea reused in tons of RPG's as is. So it's a very sellable character. He also chose someone to represent it first that is worldwide(Luminary), with Erdrick as the secondary costume. Though the interviews suggest he wanted Erdrick as the first one, but it makes sense why the choice went that way. He was surprised he got Eight(massively popular in the West) and Solo(from a game with some unique stuff, so a good final costume).

B&K yeah, worldwide helped. Ridley is from a first party franchise, Metroid, which has a very continued existence right now. Dark Samus, mind you, was both an echo and a fan request. It made a ton of sense why she was added too in that regard.

Master Chief isn't in a similar position, as you said, because he lacks Japanese popularity. Halo is known there, just as others like Mortal Kombat is, etc. However, the inability to much get sales can be problematic. That said, they don't have an issue with outright advertising the Xbox, so it's not even an MK situation. I think he can get in. The fact we got Steve might not matter as much when he's a worldwide and multiplatform character in comparison. Halo isn't. This could be part of why it wasn't as much on the table(not even a Spirit Event or costume, though...).
I seriously question gap between Halo and Banjo in Japan. 400k vs 110k... if we bring later installment failing, Banjo falls in that category too. It's not like 3.8 million base all know Banjo... of course more popular the better, but 3.8 million is far away from major playerbase.
At least, Chief's case is better than likes of Rayman, Doom Slayer and Reimu.

We don't know what's behind the curtain.
 

One-Winged Bagel

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I seriously question gap between Halo and Banjo in Japan. 400k vs 110k... if we bring later installment failing, Banjo falls in that category too. It's not like 3.8 million base all know Banjo... of course more popular the better, but 3.8 million is far away from major playerbase.
At least, Chief's case is better than likes of Rayman, Doom Slayer and Reimu.

We don't know what's behind the curtain.
And Dragon Quest is way weaker in sales in the US, where Banjo-Kazooie is higher. That's the point. They compliment each other but have their own circumstances. Besides, both were notable requests at the time.

Master Chief also doesn't have a ballot advantage due to many thinking he's impossible cause he had no game on Nintendo. It's common people do that anyway. That's why Cloud was treated as "not happening" by many. This is also because PushDustIn accidentally mistranslated Sakurai's article. A Nintendo appearance was thought needed, but it's just a courtesy at best. Now, for Nintendo, that's a whole different ball game. But Joker seems more of a case of "maybe only if we get a game exclusive", since the timing is a little suspicious. He wasn't literally having a Nintendo appearance that got him in, but him going to have one may be part of why they chose him. The primary reason is still obvious and quite specifically "Persona 5 being a major game", though.
 

SpectreJordan

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I think how big Master Chief/Halo is in the west could overcome any doubts about it not being popular in the east.

The series has been a staple of the western gaming scene since its debut. Even now when it’s not as popular as it once was (Hopefully that ends with Infinite’s release), it’s still on the video game toy aisle at Target alongside the likes of Mario, Sonic, Pokemon, Minecraft & Fortnite. There’s still big memes made about it like Craig or countless high school kids singing the theme in bathrooms.

I think Nintendo & Sakurai know that, so it wouldn’t be an issue that he’s not popular in Japan. Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if a good amount of hardcore Japanese gamers know of Halo due to its legacy in the west. I feel that’s largely how Dragon Quest was over here before Smash.

I definitely feel like Doom Slayer & Rayman have a harder fight in this regard. Since their series aren’t as huge as Halo. Though, Doom has the history bonus as well as a huge revival in recent years.
 
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One-Winged Bagel

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I think how big Master Chief/Halo is in the west could overcome any doubts about it not being popular in the west.

The series has been a staple of the western gaming scene since its debut. Even now when it’s not as popular as it once was (Hopefully that ends with Infinite’s release), it’s still on the video game toy aisle at Target alongside the likes of Mario, Sonic, Pokemon, Minecraft & Fortnite. There’s still big memes made about it like Craig or countless high school kids singing the theme in bathrooms.

I think Nintendo & Sakurai know that, so it wouldn’t be an issue that he’s not popular in Japan. Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if a good amount of hardcore Japanese gamers know of Halo due to its legacy in the west. I feel that’s largely how Dragon Quest was over here before Smash.

I definitely feel like Doom Slayer & Rayman have a harder fight in this regard. Since their series aren’t as huge as Halo. Though, Doom has the history bonus as well as a huge revival in recent years.
I don't think either have a "harder fight" either. Keep in mind Doom and Rayman both are on Nintendo consoles and not the mascot of a rival company. Albeit, in a sense, the "popularity" goes more towards Master Chief, yes. But it's important to look at the full picture, too. Rayman is sold worldwide(not the best popularity) on, as I noted, Nintendo consoles. Is that the case for Doomguy? If yes, then that means Nintendo themselves would see them as already viable. Keep in mind Banjo & Kazooie are the only third party you can't play any games they're in on a Nintendo system right now. Joker appeared already in some Persona games by that point. This may be the sole special situation.

If it was Sakurai, yeah, I think Chief would be much more likely. But it's not. It's Nintendo. Also, remember that BK happened because of Minecraft too. If it weren't for that, all the ballot votes in the world wouldn't be enough either. Microsoft is getting a great deal out of both characters. They got more than just advertisement, but a Minecraft 3DS itself. They were allowed to effectively advertise Halo for the Xbox Systems via the Halo Mash-Up Pack too. This is big. This is also why I can see Chief getting in for the same reason, that is, to advertise the Xbox Halo games only. On the other hand, maybe we do need a Halo game on Switch for Nintendo to be okay with it. It could go either way. It's funny too; we've talked about "appearances on Nintendo not being required", but that's Sakurai's view. Nintendo? Well... they are a business, not just a game lover. They have their own thoughts, and if they can't get a good business deal, they wouldn't go for it. This could be why the Chief is not in at this time. Though to be fair, Steve was the biggest gaming icon among Microsoft anyway(and super worldwide popularity). BK kind of was lucky too, but I'd have given the core competition with Chief. After Ultimate is over, Chief now has to deal with Doomguy(I legit don't know if Doom is popular in the East too).

BTW, I think you meant "about it not being popular in the east" in that first paragraph. XD
 
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MattX20

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I think the only thing left to question is if 3rd parties will double dip in the same pass. Nintendo proved it can, and if Microsoft double dips, it's the best hope for him
 

One-Winged Bagel

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I think the only thing left to question is if 3rd parties will double dip in the same pass. Nintendo proved it can, and if Microsoft double dips, it's the best hope for him
I'd say it doesn't count that Nintendo did. They're outright the owners of the IP and can do what they want.

Third party companies are more questionable in how they reply. We don't know the negotiations too well. It might be a case of usually setting up content(with the except of Square and Enix at best) like it's their only content in general. Could it be that limiting? Maybe.
 

Ridley_Prime

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As kinda aforementioned, pass 2 seems mostly about tying up loose ends for earlier planned promotional additions. Has felt that way since Byleth to be honest. Sephiroth is definitely the most hype character from pass 2 imo and at this point is hard to see the last two characters topping him, unless it's miraculously Master Chief, Doomguy, or someone of high notoriety (or maybe Dixie or Bandana Dee out of remaining 1st party picks). Pass 1 definitely had a better set of characters and unless one of the last two additions is a real game changer, my opinion will stay that way.
 
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Houndstooth

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I kinda feel the "tying up loose ends" except with Sephiroth. But, I see most people's point in here about that.

I do think that Chief is super unlikely at this point, but he isn't completely out. Nintendo double dipping is much easier than a third party company doing it, but it isn't impossible.
 
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