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I miss Melee...
- Thread starter mikeHAZE
- Start date
- Status
araknophobik
Smash Master
a new generation of smashers
for alex to grime and take $ from
for alex to grime and take $ from
mikeHAZE
Smash Legend
rofl
RAAAAAAAAAAAAAPe
-MaNg0
RAAAAAAAAAAAAAPe
-MaNg0
Goldkirby
Smash Ace
Super Smash Bros Brawl? More like Super Camp Bros - Time to set up our tents.
3Years
Smash Lord
NeighborhoodP
Smash Hero
no, you're just probably high.
Nicktendo
Smash Ace
wow, everyone just ignored my post completely... please read this??
hey everyone in SoCal maybe we should try out heavy gravity mode in brawl? Maybe itd be better to make it competive. Read the first post of this thread
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=158712
Everyone should mess around with this for a while see how it plays and they like it, it sounds loads better than regular brawl (lower percent kills, combos, not as floaty, more punishment for camping, etc etc)
Maybe itll make brawl more competive
Nicktendo
Smash Ace
Uh well everyones saying how they hate Brawl and heavy gravity mode in options seems to make it better and more like melee so I thought people might want to try it out
I miss Melee but Brawl is the new game and is going to be around wether we like it not. Maybe heavy gravity should be the competive standard to make it better. So I was just suggesting it to make it better to play
I miss Melee but Brawl is the new game and is going to be around wether we like it not. Maybe heavy gravity should be the competive standard to make it better. So I was just suggesting it to make it better to play
Nicktendo
Smash Ace
Yeah I know I just wish and want Brawl to be better than it is
HyugaRicdeau
Baller/Shot-caller
This thread is full of myopic naifs.
Man, it's a good thing that so many people are actually giving Brawl a chance to grow and evolve.
And by giving it a chance, I mean: actually learning and studying the game, how to improve the speed, mobility, execution and combos their respective characters, and how to punish different offensive/defensive playstyles. Sadly, instead everyone has been "playing to win" from day 1 ( and with the only tactic people instinctually know how to use from the beginning when they suck at a game --- camping, in fear and timidity, as far away from their opponent as possible) without spending any time at all analyzing brawl and working on their game.
Also, I don't know where the hell are these random absolute generalities are coming from:
"Combos don't exist"
"Edgeguards are impossible"
"It's nothing but campy hit & run tactics everywhere"
"There's zero depth to this game"
"Gimp kills are a thing of the past"
"This game requires no spacing, mindgames or skill to succeed at it"
But they're ****ing everywhere right now. And whether you're the person saying them or just agreeing with them in stride...well, as far as trying to learn a brand new game, way to just give in, keel over and ****ing die. I don't know what scrubtacular game the rest of you are limiting yourselves to, but the people I play with see and experience Brawl in a completely different light than all this. It just "might" have something to do with us collaborating with each other, and experimenting with all the different aspects of this game.
Melee is a better game than Brawl? I don't know which avenue of logic i should probe first to find out how anyone has come to this conclusion after only 2 god**** months.
Is it because people are angry that not every single solitary tactic survived the transition between melee and brawl? Last I checked, a lot of SSB's physics engine didn't survive the switch either. That's because it iddn't NEED to for the next game to be competitive. So many people I've seen are trying to keep the same pace and flow of movement & attack that they utilized in melee, to be successful in Brawl. It just isn't going to happen; you need to adapt your pace slightly to compensate for the new physics, and realize that huge combos are still possible - they just require different transitions now, and aren't quite so automatic as in Melee. And as far as gimp kills go... I don't see how being able to remove entire stocks with just a few button inputs because your opponent literally had no other option of escape available to him, or being able to mindlessly destroy an opponent's recovery simply by pressing L/R and utilizing over a full SECOND of invincibility frames to hold a ledge while you aren't even on it anymore, qualifies as positive qualities for a game.
I'll also repeat the statement said by many, and fallen on so many more deaf ears, that this game has been out for 2 MONTHS. Most of which have been spent with players doing nothing to advance the metagame more than just camping one side of a stage. Melee has been out for what? 7 (SEVEN) YEARS. About 88 MONTHS now. It's just unbelievable that anybody would hold a grudge against Brawl for not appearing as deep as Melee. If anyone is reading this who actually doesn't suck balls at Melee, do you remember what it took to be amazing at melee, or what it took for the game to evolve as amazing as it did? It took an entire community dedicated to dissecting every minute aspect of the game YEARS to get Melee to its pinnacle.
From all I've seen, Brawl has every bit as much potential as Melee to be a terrific competitive game. This game has the combos, the speed, the pressure game, and the evasive maneuverability options to make it one hell of a show. But it isn't going to get there any time soon if people either don't try to study this game and learn how to play it effectively. It also isn't going to get there if people just ****ing give up on it because they're garbage at it when they've only had it a month, and wait to play it until the rest of the Brawl community puts forth the time and effort into evolving this game into something extraordinary. With a mindset like that, SSBM would still be nothing more than just another Mario Party game.
King Out
And by giving it a chance, I mean: actually learning and studying the game, how to improve the speed, mobility, execution and combos their respective characters, and how to punish different offensive/defensive playstyles. Sadly, instead everyone has been "playing to win" from day 1 ( and with the only tactic people instinctually know how to use from the beginning when they suck at a game --- camping, in fear and timidity, as far away from their opponent as possible) without spending any time at all analyzing brawl and working on their game.
Also, I don't know where the hell are these random absolute generalities are coming from:
"Combos don't exist"
"Edgeguards are impossible"
"It's nothing but campy hit & run tactics everywhere"
"There's zero depth to this game"
"Gimp kills are a thing of the past"
"This game requires no spacing, mindgames or skill to succeed at it"
But they're ****ing everywhere right now. And whether you're the person saying them or just agreeing with them in stride...well, as far as trying to learn a brand new game, way to just give in, keel over and ****ing die. I don't know what scrubtacular game the rest of you are limiting yourselves to, but the people I play with see and experience Brawl in a completely different light than all this. It just "might" have something to do with us collaborating with each other, and experimenting with all the different aspects of this game.
Melee is a better game than Brawl? I don't know which avenue of logic i should probe first to find out how anyone has come to this conclusion after only 2 god**** months.
Is it because people are angry that not every single solitary tactic survived the transition between melee and brawl? Last I checked, a lot of SSB's physics engine didn't survive the switch either. That's because it iddn't NEED to for the next game to be competitive. So many people I've seen are trying to keep the same pace and flow of movement & attack that they utilized in melee, to be successful in Brawl. It just isn't going to happen; you need to adapt your pace slightly to compensate for the new physics, and realize that huge combos are still possible - they just require different transitions now, and aren't quite so automatic as in Melee. And as far as gimp kills go... I don't see how being able to remove entire stocks with just a few button inputs because your opponent literally had no other option of escape available to him, or being able to mindlessly destroy an opponent's recovery simply by pressing L/R and utilizing over a full SECOND of invincibility frames to hold a ledge while you aren't even on it anymore, qualifies as positive qualities for a game.
I'll also repeat the statement said by many, and fallen on so many more deaf ears, that this game has been out for 2 MONTHS. Most of which have been spent with players doing nothing to advance the metagame more than just camping one side of a stage. Melee has been out for what? 7 (SEVEN) YEARS. About 88 MONTHS now. It's just unbelievable that anybody would hold a grudge against Brawl for not appearing as deep as Melee. If anyone is reading this who actually doesn't suck balls at Melee, do you remember what it took to be amazing at melee, or what it took for the game to evolve as amazing as it did? It took an entire community dedicated to dissecting every minute aspect of the game YEARS to get Melee to its pinnacle.
From all I've seen, Brawl has every bit as much potential as Melee to be a terrific competitive game. This game has the combos, the speed, the pressure game, and the evasive maneuverability options to make it one hell of a show. But it isn't going to get there any time soon if people either don't try to study this game and learn how to play it effectively. It also isn't going to get there if people just ****ing give up on it because they're garbage at it when they've only had it a month, and wait to play it until the rest of the Brawl community puts forth the time and effort into evolving this game into something extraordinary. With a mindset like that, SSBM would still be nothing more than just another Mario Party game.
King Out
MrPBody
Smash Journeyman
Such strong feelings.. I'm okay w/ brawl, I do have the best PT in SoCal.
Wonder what P has to say about this lol
Jem.
Smash Master
Wow King with the ****.
Little England
Smash Master
Nothing..
"If anyone is reading this who actually doesn't suck balls at Melee, do you remember what it took to be amazing at melee, or what it took for the game to evolve as amazing as it did?" -King
Lumpy..
Smash Ace
um...
wow...
i agree with just about every word of that...
so... you guys wanna play melee?
wow...
i agree with just about every word of that...
so... you guys wanna play melee?
xyouxarexuglyx2
Smash Lord
Wow, this proves I have no life. This post almost made me cry.
NeighborhoodP
Smash Hero
if this "debate" didnt bore me to tears i'd probably have something to say
Lovage 805
Smash Champion
kilo's PT is #1 in socal, baby
araknophobik
Smash Master
videos or it didn't happen
Nice post by King
Fabian - You'd have to show videos of people being unable to combo or that didn't happen either
Fabian - You'd have to show videos of people being unable to combo or that didn't happen either
Vincent Vega
Smash Journeyman
http://youtube.com/profile_videos?user=getyourtournamentNice post by King
Fabian - You'd have to show videos of people being unable to combo or that didn't happen either
Take your pick.
MrPBody
Smash Journeyman
Play me in tournament.
ProdigyKid
Smash Lord
Vincent Vega
Smash Journeyman
Lol I don't know if you were being sarcastic or serious about those videos. I sat through about as long as I could stand of a match with the KOF guy, and there were no combos lol. Just forward b camping. 
3Years
Smash Lord
ProdigyKid
Smash Lord
If you watch more than 1 match, youd see. But I forgot how useless it was to argue w/ a diehard melee fan.
Go King.
Go King.
benefluence
Smash Rookie
That is not a single combo. there's nothing longer than three hits that wasn't escapable, and Ganondorf repeatedly screwed up with high lag moves. had he taken any one of 4 openings he had to shield or airdodge, I doubt he would have died.
TheZhuKeeper
Smash Champion
King said huge combos and most people have yet to see them. As cool as KOF's ZSS is, the biggest combo I've seen from him is dsmash until opponent jumps out of the stun and then a simple usmash to chase the jump.
But then I've heard King can do some ridiculous things from sidefx and zelgadis, so I honestly would like to see vids.
kouryuuXfighter
Smash Ace
I was at a brawl tourney yesterday over a FFA. I wasn't exactly excited or looking forward to the tourney at all. I just went to hang out and to play the arcades 
Anyway, while I was at the tourney, I talked to a few good smashers and listened to their thoughts on Brawl. I mainly talked with Alex and Forward. Afterwards I realized that I was an idiot...
Alex - He doesn't think Brawl sucks at all. He told me that it's no different from Melee when it started out. He also told me that when it comes down to it, there are the originators and everyone else who follows after. The originators are those who figure the game out and the followers are those who wait and see what happens simply because they are too close-minded to notice potential when they see it.
Forward - (after I tell him that I think Brawl has no potential) "No Potential?!? Brawl has too much potential."
And now, King goes ahead and makes a great post like the one he did. I mean, these smashers aren't just any smashers that were talking about. And it seems many of them share a common view. Almost everything King said, I have to agree with.
What I'm getting at is, we shouldn't simply reject Brawl they way we are. It is a new game and there are many things to be found out if people think outside of the box. I still play Brawl and I have found many different trixies with certain characters. It just takes time and patience.
Do I think Brawl is boring? Yes I kinda do. Why? Because the game is not too developed yet.
But nevertheless, I still play the game in order to learn new things and because I know this game is going to reach a high level of competitive play. I don't want to be left behind the way I was in Melee.
So in the end, I just think we should consider what King has told us. Let's stop trash talking Brawl and comparing it to Melee. In a sense, they're different games. Let's give it time people... I know it may seem boring now but I also know that that won't be the case in the future.
Anyway, while I was at the tourney, I talked to a few good smashers and listened to their thoughts on Brawl. I mainly talked with Alex and Forward. Afterwards I realized that I was an idiot...
Alex - He doesn't think Brawl sucks at all. He told me that it's no different from Melee when it started out. He also told me that when it comes down to it, there are the originators and everyone else who follows after. The originators are those who figure the game out and the followers are those who wait and see what happens simply because they are too close-minded to notice potential when they see it.
Forward - (after I tell him that I think Brawl has no potential) "No Potential?!? Brawl has too much potential."
And now, King goes ahead and makes a great post like the one he did. I mean, these smashers aren't just any smashers that were talking about. And it seems many of them share a common view. Almost everything King said, I have to agree with.
What I'm getting at is, we shouldn't simply reject Brawl they way we are. It is a new game and there are many things to be found out if people think outside of the box. I still play Brawl and I have found many different trixies with certain characters. It just takes time and patience.
Do I think Brawl is boring? Yes I kinda do. Why? Because the game is not too developed yet.
But nevertheless, I still play the game in order to learn new things and because I know this game is going to reach a high level of competitive play. I don't want to be left behind the way I was in Melee.
So in the end, I just think we should consider what King has told us. Let's stop trash talking Brawl and comparing it to Melee. In a sense, they're different games. Let's give it time people... I know it may seem boring now but I also know that that won't be the case in the future.
mikeHAZE
Smash Legend
NeighborhoodP
Smash Hero
Do you ever think for yourself?
choknater
Smash Obsessed
sometimes people should let their ***** do the thinking for them!
Stuhddabahkz
Smash Apprentice
I miss Melee. I don't understand Melee OR Brawl as much as King and Forward probably do, but I just can't see how there is any potential to make it more suitable as a competitive game. Yes, maybe I wanted Melee 2.0 and I'm too used to it and all that other **** you people say, but I still don't see it. The game hardly requires skill. =(
This probably seems like I'm stating my opinion as fact, but debate is just as hard to do against anti-Melee people as it is against die hard Melee fans.
I wish people would stop with the "It's not Melee 2.0, it's a different game." You idiots act like they're both not ****ing Smash Bros. games. They're different games, but from the same ****ING series.
This probably seems like I'm stating my opinion as fact, but debate is just as hard to do against anti-Melee people as it is against die hard Melee fans.
I wish people would stop with the "It's not Melee 2.0, it's a different game." You idiots act like they're both not ****ing Smash Bros. games. They're different games, but from the same ****ING series.
HyugaRicdeau
Baller/Shot-caller
So you really think we've explored EVERY tactic with EVERY character and we know ALL there is to know about Brawl? We don't even know that much about MELEE which has been out for 6+ years. Brawl has been out, for most of us, for not even one month. When you say it has no potential, you're saying we've fully developed the metagame. What an ignorant thing to say. Brawl doesn't require skill? You don't even know what 'skill' is. Are you seriously that nearsighted?
Who says we're anti-Melee? Who even says we're pro-Brawl? We're anti-writing-sh
So? What law states that the next game in the series has to resemble the previous one as much as possible? You're just seeing a label on a game and making assumptions about it. Just look at it for what it ACTUALLY IS and not what word is on the disc's label.
Stuhddabahkz
Smash Apprentice
First of, thatnks for quoting my post and... saying ****. Seriously, no sarcasm... it made me smile... for some reason... o_O
I'm glad you quoted me though, I got a chance to clear **** up. I was gonna post a big wall of text in response to King, but I decided not to out of laziness, then posted this half a s s'd post instead. I'm glad I didn't though, I woulda gotten chewed up.. kinda like I just did. =/So you really think we've explored EVERY tactic with EVERY character and we know ALL there is to know about Brawl? We don't even know that much about MELEE which has been out for 6+ years. Brawl has been out, for most of us, for not even one month. When you say it has no potential, you're saying we've fully developed the metagame. What an ignorant thing to say. Brawl doesn't require skill? You don't even know what 'skill' is. Are you seriously that nearsighted?
Yeah, I agree with you. But, at least with me, I felt so restricted the first time I played Brawl, and it felt that was really nothing that would make it any better as a competitive game. I'm speaking from personal experience, not in general. As for the skill thing, I meant at the current standpoint, it takes almost no skill... other than camping skill. Lucas' PK Fire owns me. Again, personal experience.
EDIT: And I am extremely visually nearsighted. My lenses are THICK. So maybe if nearsighted in one field, nearsighted in ALL fields. =/
Who says we're anti-Melee? Who even says we're pro-Brawl? We're anti-writing-shit-off-after-only-playing-it-for-a-couple-weeks.
Wtf @ this one? This wasn't even directly at anyone. I was just talking about the anti-Melee people who were eventually gonna see this post. I didn't mean the people in this thread that were defending Brawl, I meant ACTUAL anti-Melee people. =/ You jumping the gun to defend yourself... makes you seem anti-Melee. J/k.
So? What law states that the next game in the series has to resemble the previous one as much as possible? You're just seeing a label on a game and making assumptions about it. Just look at it for what it ACTUALLY IS and not what word is on the disc's label.
No, no, no. I was referring to the fact every single time someone compares anything in Melee to Brawl and says said comparison is in Melee, there's almost two pages of posts that follows saying "It's not Melee 2.0. It's a different game." They're both Smash Bros. games, though. Comparisons can be made, it's freaking expected. Is there a law that states games of the same series can't be compared because they don't play similarly even though they were... kinda expected to? It's not like we're comparing Halo to Street Fighter. We're comparing Smash Bros. 2 to Smash Bros. 3. You don't see people posting "Brawl's a newer game" everytime someone brings up a aspect that's better in Brawl than in Melee.
NeighborhoodP
Smash Hero
The law of making good games, actually.
Very few all-time (9+ from your average reviewer, let's say) great games have a great sequel to it that strayed far from the original and yet was as good as the original.
And since 3D gaming has begun, it's that much harder.
HyugaRicdeau
Baller/Shot-caller
So it's not so much a law as an observation or conjecture. I mean, you wouldn't necessarily criticize Brawl simply because "it's not Melee" anymore than you'd criticize (insert band here) for not being Led Zeppelin.
I'd point you directly to the Mario games, or Final Fantasy for examples of successful series whose games generally differ from one another by a good degree.
To Stuhddabahkz:
I'm sure that basically everyone who played Brawl the FIRST time had some feeling of not knowing what they were doing. That's part of playing a new game. If you find that distasteful, maybe playing new games and building strats from the ground up just isn't for you. I personally am glad it's not exactly like Melee because I believe no good game should require a huge amount of technical skill to be good at.
And I don't think anyone is actually ANTI-MELEE. I think you're using that as a misnomer for "pro-Brawl" people, though I'd hesitate to even call them that. Most people are just saying that it's premature to make ultimate conclusions and judgments about the game.
As far as your "Melee 2.0" point, I never said you couldn't compare the two. The point that people are making when they go "NOT MELEE 2.0 BLAH BLAH" is that if you compare the two for the purposes of criticism, there's the tacit assumption that you wanted Brawl to be just like Melee (in whichever respect you're criticizing Brawl for) to begin with, which not everyone agrees with.
---
If you guys honestly wanted Melee with more characters, that's perfectly fine, and nobody can tell you you're stupid for wanting that; just own up to it, there is no shame in it. I'm sure there were as many expectations about Brawl as there are posters on this forum. Nobody is here to tell anyone that they have to like Brawl. It's just naive to say the final word on Brawl is out. It won't be for many months yet. I know all you kids are used to getting what you want RIGHT NOW and getting the convenient and timely conclusion at the hour's end of whatever Idol/contest/reality show you watch, but it's not gonna work that way here.
Chill, and take another look at it besides just comparing it to our naive expectations, and maybe you'll enjoy it. If you don't, fine. I don't really care how much most of you like or dislike it to be honest, I'm just here to point out poor arguments.
Shmooguy
Smash Champion
I heard a rumor that DBR/Isai figured out this amazing new technique that lets them own.
I also heard a rumor that I might have just made this up just now.
I also heard a rumor that I might have just made this up just now.
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