I have a very serious question about Sheik's gender!

[0211]

In the trophy description for SSBM Sheik, it clearly refers to her as a her.

I believe that that is just the English version, from what I've heard.

 

[0211]

Ignorance is really the only reason for anyone thinking Sheik is a guy.

Like i've said before, if I (as a male) dress up like a girl... Does that make me a girl? The answer... NO!!! Why the crap would it!?!?!?

There are many transgenders who would disagree with you, actually.

There are also people who believe themselves male/female, despite their anatomy.

 

[Reyairia]

The Metroid manual, I believe, was written so that Samus' gender would be a surprise at the end of the game. This is a little different.

*snort*
I'm sure that Sheik's identity was also meant to be a surprise near end-game.
Same thing, I'm telling you.

I just think it's a bit of a stretch that Zelda got a sex change in a Nintendo game.

 

[Onepost]

As far as her gender in the Smash Bros games, there is no question, Sheik is female. This does not necessarily mean the same thing for Ocarina of Time since Smash Bros is not considered Zelda canon.

 

[GameAngel64]

If you like to fantasize that Sheik was male in OoT I don't know if there's much to be said to sway you.

But in Melee, that Sheik, certainly in the American version, was female. It says so on her trophy, she is a bit feminine looking, and in Brawl she plainly has boobs. So if you're playing Sheik is Smash, and you wanna call her a "he," then you're just satisfying yourself, because I don't see any reason to believe she is male in those games. But I guess it's better to delude yourself than recognize you play a female character.

EDIT: ^ You and I were posting on the same wavelength, guy above me.

 

[Davidius]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY9OoVdQGHM
^I don't think Sheik sounds very manly.

 

[Xanthyr]

There will never, ever be a full agreement on this topic. In order to do so, we have to standardize our views on the subject, as it is easy to say that Sheik is both male and female, equally on each other's belief and reasoning.

The situation at hand is as follows:

A car is painted red on one side, and blue on the other. Perfectly in half, split down the middle. The people on the red side of the car think it's red, and vice versa for those on the blue. They will squabble all day long about it being their respective color, because there is definite proof for both sides, and the other is disagreeing with their blatant fact.

If you get someone from the red side to go to the blue, he will then see that the car is blue, no longer red. A blue goes to the red, and sees that it is red, so he believes it's red now, just as with the reciprocated member.

This is what we call circular logic, and we fell into its trap for 5 whole pages.

There are two equal sides to the argument.

Red = Sheik's persona.
Blue = Zelda's gender.

Sheik's persona/concept is male, Zelda's gender is female. We all agree on this, no one can contest these two facts. This is the argument at it's most base form.

When you try to mix these two to get an answer, a homo-magnetic polar repulsion happens, or it's like trying to mix oil and water. It doesn't happen.

Either way, both answers are correct. The only variance in this case are the fingers pointing at them.

That is why this will never rest.

However! If we all agree that the answer isn't a single point, but the inclusion of both, then we can set this to rest. If you don't want to be accepting of more than one definite truth out of obstinacies, then be my guest. I agree with both sides.

 

[Reyairia]

As far as her gender in the Smash Bros games, there is no question, Sheik is female. This does not necessarily mean the same thing for Ocarina of Time since Smash Bros is not considered Zelda canon.

To the storyline, maybe.
To the characters? That's a different story.
If Sheik truly was a guy, I wouldn't see any reason to change that.

 

[Deleted member]

Uggg, I cant believe these sickos still think Sheik is a dude. I especially love the one guy saying "virgin," "******," and "you proved yourself to be an idiot so Im going to stop arguing." He is like an amalgamation of all of the "Oh **** im losing an argument! If I say THIS I WINNNNN!!!!" The fact is, Batman is not different than Bruce Wayne, is he? Because John puts on a dress, a wig, and some makeup and calls himself Jane is Jane a woman?!! NO!! It doesn't work like that. All of you supporters of Male Sheik KNOW the only reason you want Sheik to be a dude is so you can keep writing sicko fanfictions about Link and Sheik spending long cold winter nights snowed in at the ole log cabin WITHOUT it being remotely not gay. How come it seems that Zelda fans are the most twisted? MALE Sheik? FEMALE Link?! Come on! You people make me sick.

LMAO

Sad but true.

 

[0211]

Does Link have male genitalia?

Does Snake have male genitalia?

Does Diddy Kong have male genitalia?

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

 

[Deleted member]

we Have A Winner!!!

We Have A Loser!!!

 

[Showbiz]

We all know that Sheik is Zelda in disguise, why are people arguing that Sheik is a guy? It is just plain fact from day one that Sheik is a girl in disguise.

Some people never played OOT and those people would assume Sheik is a guy.


/End Thread

 

[DraginHikari]

I always figured the whole obessesion with Shiek being Male was only by Yaoi Fangirls/boys for lemon fanfics XD

I can't think of any other reason this would even matter in the least.

 

[Onepost]

To the storyline, maybe.
To the characters? That's a different story.
If Sheik truly was a guy, I wouldn't see any reason to change that.

There was nothing to change, Sheik had no defined gender.

 

[Fawriel]

Don't I remember some scene where Sheik pulls down that cloth covering her face to reveal that she's Zelda?

If she had managed to change her gender, why would she need that extra disguise? If she could just freely change her shape like that, she might as well have gone for something that lets nobody even guess she might be Zelda in disguise.
And I doubt anyone's going to ask a random Sheikah for proof that they're a man. So there'd be no point anyway.

Zelda just changed her color, hair and suppressed her boobs with bandages or something. kbye.

 

[Reyairia]

I always figured the whole obessesion with Shiek being Male was only by Yaoi Fangirls/boys for lemon fanfics XD

I can't think of any other reason this would even matter in the least.

It's a scientifically proved fact that if you are aware you are playing as a female character your sexuality is to be doubted.
/sarcasm.

There was nothing to change, Sheik had no defined gender.

Sheik had a defined identity as Zelda. And unless I'm missing something, Zelda is a girl.

 

[0211]

*snort*
I'm sure that Sheik's identity was also meant to be a surprise near end-game.
Same thing, I'm telling you.

I just think it's a bit of a stretch that Zelda got a sex change in a Nintendo game.

And there is the flaw in your logic.

Yes, it would be unacceptable for Zelda to have a sex change IN AMERICA.

The manga, written solely for Japan, has one.

Sailor Moon, a once popular anime from Japan, had the main characters have a physical sex change as well. In the American version, they simply were 'cross-dressing'.



It's a matter of culture.
The likely reason that Sheik was made so feminine is due to the fact that Brawl (and Twilight Princess) are aimed at a huge American audience.

 

[0211]

We Have A Loser!!!

We are well aware of your existence. You can stop advertising, thanks.

 

[Alondite]

Technically, Sheik is physically male (magic can do those types of things), but it's also Zelda in disguise...so Sheik is still considered female.

 

[Reyairia]

And there is the flaw in your logic.

Yes, it would be unacceptable for Zelda to have a sex change IN AMERICA.

The manga, written solely for Japan, has one.

Yeah, but there's a difference;
The Sailor Moon manga, even in Japan, has a high rating, PG13 or R if I remember correctly.
Ocarina of time, however, was not.
One thing is for a character to cross dress (Birdo, Vivian), and another is to get a sex change altogether.

 

[Elysium]

Is this still going on?

Seriously people, read the first two pages the answer is right there. Everything after that was joking around, until people started insulting others...
Lock the thread before we get another flame war going on.

 

[Onepost]

Don't I remember some scene where Sheik pulls down that cloth covering her face to reveal that she's Zelda?

If she had managed to change her gender, why would she need that extra disguise? If she could just freely change her shape like that, she might as well have gone for something that lets nobody even guess she might be Zelda in disguise.
And I doubt anyone's going to ask a random Sheikah for proof that they're a man. So there'd be no point anyway.

Zelda just changed her color, hair and suppressed her boobs with bandages or something. kbye.

Sheik didn't pull down a cloth, it was a blinding magic flash...thing from the Triforce of Wisdom, don't know how to explain it exactly, but when it was over Zelda was standing there as we know her, dress and all.

Once again, I'm not insinuating that Sheik is a male. I'm just pointing out that it is a major possibility and Sheik has NO official definite gender outside of Smash Bros.

 

[MetalLink99]

Yea it is as obvious she is a girl. Also if you look there is a huge braid of hair behind her which means Shiek is still a girl.

Seriously I have never seen a male video game character with that long braid of hair.

 

[Showbiz]

The average IQ of this community brings me great remorse.

 

[Heretique]

Anybody who is still here saying that Sheik COULD BE a male is just here for the sake of arguing. Seriously, let it go. We understand you can come up with your own takes on it and that it's not fact written in stone that Zelda is even Sheik, but why are you even wasting your breath telling us this? You think we can't consider that?

There's overwhelming evidence that Zelda is Sheik and Zelda is female, thus Sheik is female. If you don't want to believe that, you're basically the same as someone saying Mario is a woman. That's fine and all, but it doesn't belong here, so, can it be gtfo tym nao plz?

 

[Titan05]

The average IQ of this community brings me great remorse.

Careful, you might get a couple of English Majors all over your ***.

Seriously, this was all fun and games... What happened?

 

[:034:]

I believe in the manga, Impa cast a spell on Zelda, putting her unconcious mind in the body of Shiek. Shiek was, in the manga, unaware that Zelda was inside of him, apparently. He was just a shell to carry Zelda, basically.

In the game, however Zelda and Shiek are one and the same. The game is the official source. Therefore, Shiek is female.

 

[0211]

Yeah, but there's a difference;
The Sailor Moon manga, even in Japan, has a high rating, PG13 or R if I remember correctly.
Ocarina of time, however, was not.
One thing is for a character to cross dress (Birdo, Vivian), and another is to get a sex change altogether.

Actually, the original series had the same rating as most currently popular anime and Finding Nemo...

The particular series I refer to has no rating, which denies you.

 

[Onepost]

Anybody who is still here saying that Sheik COULD BE a male is just here for the sake of arguing. Seriously, let it go. We understand you can come up with your own takes on it and that it's not fact written in stone that Zelda is even Sheik, but why are you even wasting your breath telling us this? You think we can't consider that?

Most people won't.

There's overwhelming evidence that Zelda is Sheik and Zelda is female, thus Sheik is female. If you don't want to believe that, you're basically the same as someone saying Mario is a woman. That's fine and all, but it doesn't belong here, so, can it be gtfo tym nao plz?

If you're going to be this ignorant there's really no point in countering this.

 

[The Kirby Kong]

Actually, the argument isn't that Zelda is a guy. We all know Sheik is Zelda in disguise. The common argument is that since Sheik is a made-up persona, Sheik IS a male.

For example, if my sister played the role of Macbeth, Macbeth would still be a guy, even though the person pretending to be him is a girl. This is because the fictional character is made to be male.

The example of your sister playing macbeth isn't the same thing as zelda playing sheik.

First you have a real person playing a fictional person. And second you have a fictional person playing a fictional person.

Since both Zelda and Sheik are fictional, it doesn't make sense that you want to refer the 'fictional person' as male.

Of course then there are also the nutjobs that actually argue vehemently that Zelda uses magic to grow a pair. Idk. Don't look that far into it.

Ehm, I got an interesting theory regarding Sheiks shape.

I think that they just didn't have enough memory in Ocarina of Time to give her a proper model. Don't think that I'm some psycho, but Zelda's breasts were pretty much 3 polygons each, they were friggin triangles. Having said that, of course they couldn't give Sheik breasts while still keeping the illusion that she might be someone else, that she might be a man.

So they had to overdo it, and keep the model mostly like a male. Hence also the crotch area I guess.

Then they simply copied that model into Smash Bros Melee, Even though by that time they already had the memory to make it look more realistic, they didn't have a reason to because she hadn't appeared in a new Zelda game yet.

Now then, why the more feminine form in Brawl? They finally had both a new use for Sheik (originally planned for Twilight Princess), and they had enough memory to give her a more realistic look.

So ehm, what I'm trying to say is.. I think Sheik was always meant to look this way, a bit more feminine, but not enough to make it obvious that she's Zelda.

Wow, trying to explain that theory really damaged the brain.

 

[0211]

Yea it is as obvious she is a girl. Also if you look there is a huge braid of hair behind her which means Shiek is still a girl.

Seriously I have never seen a male video game character with that long braid of hair.

Then you haven't played many videogames and I wonder why you're on this forum...

 

[TomH]

this really goes striaght down to whether you are talking about gender in a strictly physical sense, or something more. I mean, those who claim that sheik is female simply because of her genitalia would probably become confused with the question of the gender of a transgender. one side would state that if you switched from a man to a woman, you are a man becuse you were born male, and some would say you are female because you have female parts... Some believe that you can transform from male to female or vice versa without losing or gaining parts, because its all about perception, and how you are viewed to the world. Clearly sheik dresses like a male, and acts as if she is a male, much like a drag queen. If a man dressed as a woman is female, then Sheik is male.

My personal view is that i dont care becuase this is a stupid argument, and i call her a him because i think its funny, although if i was really pressed id probably go with female, but only because she is clearly not trying to hide her identity as a female considering that she transforms back to zelda all the time...

 

[0211]

Anybody who is still here saying that Sheik COULD BE a male is just here for the sake of arguing. Seriously, let it go. We understand you can come up with your own takes on it and that it's not fact written in stone that Zelda is even Sheik, but why are you even wasting your breath telling us this? You think we can't consider that?

There's overwhelming evidence that Zelda is Sheik and Zelda is female, thus Sheik is female. If you don't want to believe that, you're basically the same as someone saying Mario is a woman. That's fine and all, but it doesn't belong here, so, can it be gtfo tym nao plz?

You, sir, missed the point entirely.

 

[Superninjabreadman]

They built sheik in OoT so you wouldent say "lol, thats clearly Zelda" By he/she/it/potatoe's frame being too girly, so they gave Sheik a bulkier and more muscular frame (For a girl, atleast) To help hide her identity, I think they got rid of that this time around.


Didnt you notice how huge sheik's thighs were in Melee, compared to Zelda?

 

[0211]

The example of your sister playing macbeth isn't the same thing as zelda playing sheik.

First you have a real person playing a fictional person. And second you have a fictional person playing a fictional person.

Since both Zelda and Sheik are fictional, it doesn't make sense that you want to refer the 'fictional person' as male.




Ehm, I got an interesting theory regarding Sheiks shape.

I think that they just didn't have enough memory in Ocarina of Time to give her a proper model. Don't think that I'm some psycho, but Zelda's breasts were pretty much 3 polygons each, they were friggin triangles. Having said that, of course they couldn't give Sheik breasts while still keeping the illusion that she might be someone else, that she might be a man.

So they had to overdo it, and keep the model mostly like a male. Hence also the crotch area I guess.

Then they simply copied that model into Smash Bros Melee, Even though by that time they already had the memory to make it look more realistic, they didn't have a reason to because she hadn't appeared in a new Zelda game yet.

Now then, why the more feminine form in Brawl? They finally had both a new use for Sheik (originally planned for Twilight Princess), and they had enough memory to give her a more realistic look.

So ehm, what I'm trying to say is.. I think Sheik was always meant to look this way, a bit more feminine, but not enough to make it obvious that she's Zelda.

Wow, trying to explain that theory really damaged the brain.

Your first point is flawed.

In the context of the game, Zelda is real. That makes her situation exactly the same as a girl dressing up as Mcbeth.


Your theory is ridiculous as well because it ignores the fact that Zelda would want her disguise to be as convincing as possible, so any minute tell of feminity would risk her life.

 

[Heretique]

You, sir, missed the point entirely.

Then I probably wasn't talking to you.

Thx 4 explaining urself, tho~

 

[susu_atari]

I'm sure Sheik was referred to as male in OoT before you found out it was Zelda.

 

[The Noob Legend]

Shes a girl...

Or you might as well change "Transform" to "Sex Change"

 

[Heavyarms2050]

Snake: Mei Ling, Princess Zelda just... transformed!

Mei Ling: Yes, Snake. Zelda knows how to disguise herself with magic to turn into her alter-ego, Sheik. This lets her keep a low profile from anyone attempting to steal the crown of Hyrule.

Snake: But... she looks... different.

Mei Ling: “It is the beautiful bird which gets caged.” It's a Chinese proverb, Snake. It means, that your talents and gifts which come naturally, may earn you unwanted attention. Those expensive dresses and royal jewels won't help the Princess defeat an attacker.

Snake: Actually, I meant that "Sheik" looks more like a man than a woman.

Mei Ling: Well... it is a disguise, Snake.

Snake: No, really. I mean... how?

Mei Ling: How what?

Snake: How does she change her... ?

Mei Ling: Ohhhh. Ew. I. Uh.

...Look, ask Otacon. I'm sure that his anime shows deal with that sorta stuff.

 

[blayde_axel]

I'm sure Sheik was referred to as male in OoT before you found out it was Zelda.

Exactly.
...