I feel bad about using falco...

[Vorguen]

As Wolf, I actually let Falco get me to about 35-40% so I leave chaingrab range. As soon as the fight starts I eat all the lasers he wishes to throw my way, and spam mine until he reflectors it enough. I keep away from him with rolls and just laser. When I reach that %, the fight starts, and in my opinion, is still pretty even considering the 40% is pretty much the extra percentage a Falco would need to get on a Wolf for a KO.

As in, a Wolf can easily KO a Falco at 30-40% lower to begin with, so that extra damage won't be the end of the world.

Plus, on occasion, a few of my lasers actually land :D


I really think taking out Falco's chaingrab makes him WAAAAY easier. Not to mention you have a good shot at forcing him to approach because of your reflector.

I find the Wolf / Falco matchup to be VERY even or just barely slightly in Falco's advantage.

I guess in the number terms it would be a

50/50

or

45/55

Wolf to Falco


The only reason I would keep it a tiny bit on Falco's side is because Wolf's best part of his game is his punishing game, and a smart Falco would leave very little room for punishment. Also Wolf's recovery is 10 time worse than Falco's and even easier to gimp or edgehog for Falco. Wolf is also easy to spike for Falco, chaingrab or not.

However with no Chaingrab and a not 100% completely reliable laser game (because of reflector) and lack of KO moves and lightweight, this really brings the fight to a very close match for me.


These are of course mostly my thoughts, if you disagree, I would not mind discussing it further

Falco's only "2nd best" according to match-ups. Falco's match-up advantage over the rest of the cast is 34%, vs Meta Knight's 36%.

OK then, go play Dedede, the 6th best character. I mean, according to you, it's better to play a bad character, than playing the ones you like, right? By the way, avoiding the exact number of 5 top characters is weird.

I swear Brawl is the game with the most complaints about characters being good.

Umm, where did you come up with this stuff? Meta Knight 36%... Falco 34%?

How is he even second best to Meta Knight with characters like Snake? I understand you can say Falco has overall better matchups than Snake... But then you are taking out characters like Marth out of the equation who has no counters.

Yeah Falco may be a counter to more characters than Marth, but Falco can get owned by way more characters than Marth, who only has a small disadvantage on Meta Knight, Snake, and arguably DDD. With everyone else in the cast he goes toe-to-toe or actually has a small advantage. Personally he even has a small advantage on Falco himself.

Falco has a tough time with a lot of characters, like Meta Knight, Snake (which are slightly disadvantageous in my opinion), ROB who is also slight but a bit tougher, Marth, and has some harder counters like Kirby and G&W. I don't ever have problems with my Zelda or even Zelda/Sheik against Falco's either..

I just see no basis for your argument on Falco being #2 through matchups and DDD being 6 in any way shape or form.

DDD is considered 4 in the tier list... and his main competition would be Falco and G&W for 3-5. I think DDD even has a legit shot at being 3rd best, to me between him and Falco it is very very arguable. How you rank him 6 I have no idea.

 

[SpeedAcE]

You should feel bad. It takes little skill to SHDL and chaingrab. I just got out of a wifi game with this god**** falco who couldn't beat me with any other character other than G&W, so I hate you all.

Lrn2 perfectshield.

Space to avoid grabs at low percents.

Capitalize on Falco's obvious weaknesses.

???

Profit.

 

[Vorguen]

Capitalize on Falco's obvious weaknesses.

True, we should clip his wings.

 

[Denzi]

True, we should clip his wings.

He can't fly...

 

[Hyo]

He can't fly...

It's cause they already did. Before the clipped his wings, Falco had 10 jumps.

10Falcomeleejumps

 

[Vorguen]

He can't fly...

He can't fly because something's wrong with his G-diffuser.

 

[Air King]

If ya feel that bad, switch to Ganon and we can play each other =]

 

[8AngeL8]

Wolf either has to sit there and defend himself at a distance from a vastly superior Laser game mixed in with the occasional IAP, or approach and get shut down. Either way, advantage is pretty clearly for Falco.

What's Falco going to do if Wolf sits right on the edge? He can't IAP or he'll risk overshooting and SD'ing. From there, Wolf can just sit in his reflector all day. It's a stalemate at that point, and one player will eventually grow impatient.

The fact remains that it's there and can be used to punish any mistake Wolf makes at early percents, and punish it hard. Wolf can't say the same against Falco. Plus, the mere existence of the chaingrab forces Wolf to stay further away from Falco at lower percents, which is exactly where Falco wants him to be.

Granted, but even with the CG damage, Falco still has to deal almost as much damage to Wolf as Wolf has to deal to Falco to get to kill range.

Game and Watch trying to Dsmash you? Shine it. Pikachu going for a Dsmash? Shine. Kirby Fsmash? Shine like a madman. If Shining kill moves was that easy, Wolf would never die. I'm yet to see any Wolfs use the Shine to the level of effectiveness you're describing.

It's not infallible, but with Falco's kill moves that are pretty easy to see coming, it can work. Play a Wolf like Jumpman and you'll see what I mean.

Wall of Bairs is an amazing approach against the majority of the cast, but the majority of the cast don't have the sheer number of options that Falco has. For the majority of the cast, shielding Wolf's Bair does nothing, since he can just DI out of range of being punished. Falco's IAP OoS doesn't have that problem. For the majority of the cast, they don't have moves that can beat it out. Falco has both Bair and Dair, which both beat it and both come out faster than Wolf's Bair.

IAP works pretty well, but doesn't do much damage. For bair and dair, Wolf could do an empty RAR, fast fall and punish with Fsmash. It's not perfectly effective, but it becomes a game of rock paper scissors. Wolf has Bair, but Falco has Dair, but Wolf has a fakeout smash, but Falco has IAP, but Wolf has priority, etc. It becomes a question of who can read the other one better, and Wolf has more room for mistakes once he's past CG percentage.

 

[pure_awesome]

What's Falco going to do if Wolf sits right on the edge? He can't IAP or he'll risk overshooting and SD'ing. From there, Wolf can just sit in his reflector all day. It's a stalemate at that point, and one player will eventually grow impatient.

Falco's IAP, spaced properly, can hit Wolf out of his Reflector without sending Falco over the edge no matter how close Wolf is. The spacing is fairly easy; I got it on my first try with Wolf right on the edge by just guessing the distance using my basic knowledge of IAP's length.

Long Range Advantage - Falco.

Granted, but even with the CG damage, Falco still has to deal almost as much damage to Wolf as Wolf has to deal to Falco to get to kill range.

It's actually not that bad. From the middle of FD, Wolf's fresh Dsmash will only kill Falco at about 120-130% if Falco DIs correctly. Falco's Upsmash is a guaranteed kill at roughly the same percentage if Wolf DIs correctly. Wolf should be living longer, but not by much.

It's not infallible, but with Falco's kill moves that are pretty easy to see coming, it can work. Play a Wolf like Jumpman and you'll see what I mean.

It does work. It's a very valuable asset to Wolf. But it's not going to work all the time, and it's not enough to swing the match-up in Wolf's favour.

Do you see where I'm coming from on this? Since Falco's kill moves aren't disjointed or anything, Wolf's Shine really just acts like a very quick, high priority attack. It's like Zamus' 1 frame jab. In theory, she could jab all Falco's kill attempts. Heck, her jab is probably less punishable than Wolf's Shine. It's a good idea in theory, but it's just not as effective as we'd like it to be.

IAP works pretty well, but doesn't do much damage. For bair and dair, Wolf could do an empty RAR, fast fall and punish with Fsmash. It's not perfectly effective, but it becomes a game of rock paper scissors. Wolf has Bair, but Falco has Dair, but Wolf has a fakeout smash, but Falco has IAP, but Wolf has priority, etc. It becomes a question of who can read the other one better, and Wolf has more room for mistakes once he's past CG percentage.

Not to sound like a broken record here or anything, but Falco's Dair and Bair "beat" Wolf's Fsmash (most likely due to it's terrible vertical range), so that won't work. Unless you mean just baiting and punishing, at which point we're getting dangerously close to mindgame territory.

As for the low damage thing... I mean, the Whorenado doesn't do much damage, either.