I'd like to ask how the few invalidate the many? Its a self centered argument.
I would use your same argument against you. It's self-centered to exclude anyone.
Your argument isn't even being self-centered, it's an appeal to the masses - this is "herd mentality" or "mob rule" which invalidates valid arguments and disregards reasoning in favor of a brutish "might makes right".
I'll give you a great example of why this way of thinking is incorrect for us: Two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for dinner.
There is one more wolf than sheep therefore they ask how the few (sheep) invalidate the many (wolves) and that the sheep is simply just self-centered in arguing not to be visciously torn to pieces and consumed by the wolves.
In our case those competitors who are going to compete in EVO may be considered self-centered for not wanting Customs pushed on them by the wolves.
Let's stop talking in terms of mob rule.
Again though, the major factors for the reasons the MK ban failed was how slowly and incrementally they tried for it.
It wasn't incrementally at all, it was a sudden and unilateral sweeping rule dropped like a bomb on the front page of SWF and AiB.
Look at how you worded this:
The MK ban talk started in 2010, only even beginning to come to fruition in 2012.
"talk started" in 2010 & "come to fruition" in 2012.
Until there are concrete facts to show incremental steps we just got ourselves a pair of rose-tinted glasses like the rest of the Custom Movement wears.
That's not panacea, that's kool-aid!
Personally though, I think it's less "now or never" and more "Why wait?"
Probably haven't read much of the posts being made regarding this movement - or at least not without the rosy glasses.
Please, tell me exactly what waiting would solve.
The great divide.
Put Customs into tournaments as a side-event and if it's as good as the zealots claim then it'll come into its own without the schism. Additionally it will have worked through most all the potential bugs so it will give ease to the players who do not want get janked. And finally it doesn't (potentially) pose to make SSBU look like a scrubfest the way including Items did to Brawl which ultimately paints the core image of the game - going back to a pure Smash will carry the "not competitive" image along with it, but if seen as a much greatly improvement over Brawl then goes to Customs next year and this same sitation happens it will not matter because the competitive image is still there.
You keep giving these vague "I thinks" and "I feel" but I don't give a damn about your feels.
Strange, seeing as most everyone tells me I don't think with feelings and am very logical.
You may feel differently.
Unless you'd like to evidence this accusation I'll just chalk it up to projection and ignore it.
I want facts, I want objective reasoning, I want you to give actual reasoning.
I gave you some very practical reasons above, so I'll see if you respond reasonably nor not. If so than you will be able to see my concerns. If not then I'll stay off the Customs boat and wish you luck.
But, if you are being strictly reasonable then I'd reckon you would agree with the competitive reasoning that a game is played through by its default settings (as even the EVO rules start with) and any changes are adopted as they are verified in their formal way (this is how Stock came to be used vs Time, this is how Items were turned OFF, this is how everything has come into play naturally), so, reasonably, the burden of proof is on those of us who want to change the standard to Customs ON.
It really is not reasonable to shift Burden of Proof onto me to disprove the claim to deviate from the standard.
Do you agree to the reasonability of this?
Now, whoever it was that contacted the EVO staff should have taken
great steps to
get an OK from the competitors going to EVO and the competitive Smash Community before making any demands for these EVO competitors to change the rules.
Considering I didn't see any of this
I have to strongly disagree with the MEANS behind the ends - and that is really why I am not supporting this movement, because it became a sham at that point in my years-long nation-wide competitive eyes.
A pro/con list for both waiting and what's happening now with EVO from you would aid be greatly
I don't think that kind of thing means squat.
The obvious facts were stated and this kind of issue isn't to lend itself to weighing pros and cons. That kind of attempt just leads to majority rules problems - with the majority of keyboard warriors being newbs/scrubs/randoms and the minority being veteran competitors I'd say that's about the worst way to go about it.
It has to replace something in most likelihoods, I'd imagine.
I noticed it was odd for someone to juxtapose reasoning and imagination.
Obviously pointing out how I am required to provide reasonable facts while the other side of the argument works with rosy imagination.
When are are objective means to determine that opinion, it can be considered a fact.
Pretty sure "objective means" is just rewording "rosy imagination" - until it is
reasonably demonstrated to be a fact it won't be considered fact.
Player stagnation and inclination towards familiarity over time being a powerful factor, especially in smash.
The fact that simply doing it later has absolutely no guarantee to solve your submitted issues
I am hoping for the sake of conversation that you realize that statements are not facts. Facts are demonstrated to be real.
The statements you made are rather ambiguous at best and appeal to ignorance.
My concerns may be justified through past EVO issues (real case of Items used for Brawl at EVO), but the reality of the situation is I stand by a competitive standard and have been welcoming of rule changes (trust me, somewhat infamous for deviations in rules) but believe there's a proper way of doing this and the way the Custom Movement went about this with an "above-the-law" attitude "now-or-never" sinking ship scenario alienated me and anyone else who honors competitive values.
These are real events and real actions I am judging my opinions on and not fanciful statements. I would feel hypocritical staying with the Custom Movement just the same I abandoned the Meta Knight Ban movement due to their similar actions.
The fact is, EVO was the only foreseeable point we could even begin to make this happen. It very would could have been "now or never." If it was or not, we'll likely never know. But to deny it'd get harder over time like you are is absurd.
I disagree with your speculations and feel that the true reason it'd get more difficult over time is the negative mindset the entire movement seems to share with you. The "it will never happen unless we do something extreme right now!" mindset is the exact mentality that hut down MK ban and other failed movements.
Not saying this will doom customs to failure, but it certainly doesn't help and makes those of us who would be allies evacuate.
So, I just leave it as "good luck" like I did with the MK ban.
Incorrect, the Xanadu poll was for frequent Xanadu attendees only. Also, generally super casuals don't frequent tournament discussion I'd imagine.
There you go with your imagination again.
Maybe you'd like to put that aside and get the info of how many of those who voted are actually registered for EVO?
Facts are facts.
