I can't just sneak up and snap his neck? I'm gonna need a different approach...

[East]

So I've been playing a friend who mains Marth, and I've slowly started to realize that every time I try the fair approach he just shields and grabs me. I was wondering, what are some of sheik's other viable approaches to not only Marth, but any character? Is there a way in which I can somehow space myself after the fair to not get grabbed?

 

[TLMSheikant]

Autocancel it into rapid jabs. Marth is a terrible match for sheik he has range and sheik doesnt thus the only way to win this matchup is by gimping him lol. U can force him to approach with needles.

 

[Exia 00]

Realistically, YOU control the pace of the match (or maybe its just me ). I dont find marth challenging at all. I just play it normally. Marth can counter out of your ftilt so be carefull. To **** with their heads I ftilt into a spot dodge into a grab or some jabs. Just be creative and DONT GET HIT.

 

[Villi]

I like short hopped chains against Marths 'cause it out ranges himpretty good and is difficult for him to punish. The chain will also poke through the bottom of his shield if you wiggle it down + down forward.

Alternatively, instead of falling into him as you fair, you could run toward him and do a retreating short hop fair or a full hopped rising fair (into a fast falled fair if you connect), both of which should hit him from his neutral stance while being shield safe. You could do this as you jump out of your shield incase he does an attack instead of just shielding -- then at least you'll have the chance to powershield it and punish.

Spacing yourself to hit him with the weak part of your nair and then retreating into a spaced dtilt should also keep you safe from shield grabs. It's just nair, DI away, c-stick down as you fall ... will give you an instant fast falled buffered d-tilt.

If he's waiting for YOU to attack, you have more options than you think... Try running behind him and forward tilting.

 

[Wildfire393]

If Fair keeps getting grabbed, switch to Bair. It has a much longer range, and you should be able to space it such that you can't get grabbed.

Also, as stated, throwing out the chain instead of fairing can throw him off.

Shorthop airdodge through him into jabs or tilts can be effective, though sheik does not have amazing horizontal air movement. It still will likely throw him off if you mix it up.

Needles are a great tool against Marth. You can use them at a variety of ranges to throw him off. Additionally, if he's not attacking you and instead is waiting for you to attack, simply charge your needles, and suddenly you have a much larger threat. You can bluff a fair and instead back up a little and loose a full barrage of needles. This can easily set up into a grab or Ftilt.

 

[Tristan_win]

Marth is one of sheik hardest match up just because you are completely disarmed of all of your reliable means to rack up damage.

Ftilt you can't do anymore then two or you will get ^B

Chain is next to useless as well since he can ^B out of it and his counter out ranges it as well so the only time you can use it is for selective encounter.

The jab can be ^B out of as well.

The utilt is also supposedly useless too since after that crazy Japanese guy (you know who I’m talking about) showed us that at 300% Marth can ^ B out of it.

Mix that all with the fact that Marth aerial advantage is greatly in his favor means you are left with nothing but your simple and for the most part avoidable “combos”

Meanwhile Marth side B stops all of sheik approaches including air at times so when it comes down to it you are force for the most part to play a defensive rooted game and worst yet play his type of game which is all hit and run.

Basically when I face Marths I keep two things in mind.
1. Marth has no range
2. He approaches mainly in the air.

So more or less what I do is camp and force him to become airborne once he starts to approach I dash forward into a shield and hope for the best.

Other then that it’s all punishing mistakes they make while weaving in and out of fsmash tipper range.

Oh, it’s good to keep in mind that if someone counter picks marth against you or is general new to marth they will use the fsmash a lot and that good more experience marths will mix their approaches with shield breakers as well.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

You shouldn't approach Marth if you can help it. Outcamp him. Use your needles to force Marth to approach

 

[Zankoku]

Uh...? If a 60:40 matchup is one of Sheik's hardest matchups, I guess.

Marth is annoying because he's got superior options to you overall. However, his margin of error is significantly smaller, and Sheik happens to be a character quite capable of punishing mistakes. The amount of ease you have based on the Marth player's skill practically increases exponentially as related to his tendency to make mistakes.

All in all, Marth is going to be either really easy to beat or hard as hell, depending on how many mistakes he makes.

 

[Tristan_win]

Uh...? If a 60:40 matchup is one of Sheik's hardest matchups, I guess.

Marth is annoying because he's got superior options to you overall. However, his margin of error is significantly smaller, and Sheik happens to be a character quite capable of punishing mistakes. The amount of ease you have based on the Marth player's skill practically increases exponentially as related to his tendency to make mistakes.

All in all, Marth is going to be either really easy to beat or hard as hell, depending on how many mistakes he makes.

Well most match ups sheik has some type of trick that can greatly add her and mix with her great ability to rack up damage will make up the difference, however for Marth she has no such thing and no solid combos to speak of. Even the DACUS comes short as he can just start doing double fairs.

Also like you said Marth options are superior.

 

[-Mars-]

Marth is not one of Sheiks hardest matchups, her punish game creates a lot of problems for him. You don't ever have to approach, so if you play smart you can force him into some bad spots. If he's doing the usual fair approach SHAD'ing behind him every once in a while is never a bad thing. Ftilt him twice.....then shield. Either he uses his up b and now you have a free hit/grab, or he does nothing and you still get a free grab. Offstage, Sheik destroys Marth.......simple chain tether hogs are very effective. When he's recovering, hit him with a needle storm and immediately grab the edge........lands you a free hit every time.

Marth still has a s*** load of range and that's always going to create problems for Sheik, you just have to be conscious of your spacing and as others have said...punish mistakes.

 

[Tristan_win]

Marth is not one of Sheiks hardest matchups, her punish game creates a lot of problems for him. You don't ever have to approach, so if you play smart you can force him into some bad spots. If he's doing the usual fair approach SHAD'ing behind him every once in a while is never a bad thing. Ftilt him twice.....then shield. Either he uses his up b and now you have a free hit/grab, or he does nothing and you still get a free grab. Offstage, Sheik destroys Marth.......simple chain tether hogs are very effective. When he's recovering, hit him with a needle storm and immediately grab the edge........lands you a free hit every time.

Marth still has a s*** load of range and that's always going to create problems for Sheik, you just have to be conscious of your spacing and as others have said...punish mistakes.

A strong bair will crush marth ^B if you do it away from the dolphin slash side. It's great for stage spikes

 

[Zankoku]

Well most match ups sheik has some type of trick that can greatly add her and mix with her great ability to rack up damage will make up the difference, however for Marth she has no such thing and no solid combos to speak of. Even the DACUS comes short as he can just start doing double fairs.

Also like you said Marth options are superior.

Marth's options are superior, but so are a lot of Wolf's, and that matchup is quite in our favor. Not only that but his usual options for many other matchups are no longer safe due to Sheik's running and attack speed. I'd personally be very happy if a slight disadvantage could be considered one of Sheik's worst matchups.

 

[Tristan_win]

Marth's options are superior, but so are a lot of Wolf's, and that matchup is quite in our favor. Not only that but his usual options for many other matchups are no longer safe due to Sheik's running and attack speed. I'd personally be very happy if a slight disadvantage could be considered one of Sheik's worst matchups.

That's a horrible example, Wolf is like combo crazy heaven for Sheik.

What I'm trying to get at is if a Marth and a Sheik of equal skill were to meet and they both knew the match up very well Marth would crush the Sheik.

Meanwhile someone say like Meta knight we could at least stand a chance because we have areas to grow into and improve upon, yes the match up is worst at the current top level but if we travel down the road long enough Marth will be worst for sheik then even Meta knight if we master everything since there I dare say potential to grow for the other match ups.

...That is if we can master everything.

Idk, I wish allisbrawl was up.

edit: oh and zelda sucks against him which doesn't help.

edit: made it a little more clear.

 

[SinkingHigher]

full needlestorm to DACUS?

DACUS in general could be good, but not if you spam it.

I think you could take advantage of Marths lack of projectiles with the chain.

 

[Zankoku]

That's a horrible example, Wolf is like combo crazy heaven for Sheik.

Yet Wolf generally has better options in a neutral situation, except for Sheik's dreaded ftilt.

What I'm trying to get at is if a Marth and a Sheik of equal skill were to meet and they both knew the match up very well Marth would crush the Sheik.

I somehow doubt that.

Meanwhile someone say like Meta knight we could at least stand a chance because we have areas to grow into and improve upon, yes the match up is worst at the current top level but if we travel down the road long enough Marth will be worst for sheik then even Meta knight if we master everything since there I dare say potential to grow for the other match ups.

At somewhere far along the road I imagine Meta Knights will be adept enough at keeping themselves safe with their overtly safe attacks that the grab release will not be of amazing help because it'll be hard enough getting a grab on him in the first place. Marth's game has not evolved much, beyond people simply learning to play more safely and make fewer mistakes. At practically every level of play, Marth is an easier matchup for Sheik than Meta Knight is.

 

[-Mars-]

I agree completely, Marth is far easier than MK. You actually have an advantage offstage in this matchup as opposed to the MK matchup where you take a chance of being gimped evrytime your off the stage.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Ankoku, what game is that in your signature? Is it the same as that Japanese game where they use cards as attacks often?

Also, unless there is some big discovery, Marth will never be a worse matchup then MK. The only thing Marth has over MK in that matchup is the fact he can counter the chain, where as MK has to go to the back to disrupt it. But that's it.

 

[Zankoku]

IaMP, Touhou fighting game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htcgAHXAjnA

 

[Blistering Speed]

That game...looks awesome. *goes to research*

Edit: Ok, it's a game made by people who do bullet hell games, I no longer have any need for Brawl XD

Edit: Is this game a free online project, or is what I've got the demo?

 

[Exia 00]

Is marth reeeeeeally that hard?........... O_o

 

[Zankoku]

I think you have the demo, Blistering Speed. You'll have to either buy the full game or find a download link for it somewhere.

 

[Blistering Speed]

I've now got it, Im an official Sakuya main . Thanks Ankoku!

 

[brinboy789]

1. Marth has no range

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