I can't help but have the feeling.....

[PIKA321]

....that we are going to be SOOOOO disappointed in Smash 4. Especially the people that didn't even like Brawl. I just keep having the feeling that they're going to make it even more casual, take out more characters, and put in ones that we don't even want, and make them even more unbalanced. And make the stages even more horrible, with almost no good stages like FD and Smashville. And I'm not so sure about this Wii U - 3DS connectivity, I thought that it was gonna be the same game for different platforms, not have one version different and have different things. Now even though I think this might be the case I am still very excited for Smash 4! But I think I'm just gonna hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

 

[PikaJew]

Everyone whines and complains about everything so not everyone is going to be happy with this games new release. Just calm down and be thankful we're getting a new Smash game.

The only reason why people think they "****ed up" with Brawl is because it wasn't like Melee and all the tournament players got their panties in a bunch. The point is to adapt to a new game and master that, not make a Melee sequel.

Me and my friends love Brawl, and we still play it. That game had so much to offer and the only criticism it gets is for taking out Melee techniques that most people don't even know exist anyways. I like how they've added elements to make the gameplay more casual and even. It gives everyone a chance to win and makes matches more exiting.

64, Melee and Brawl all play differently. And the new one is going to be different too. You have to adapt to the new game and find ways to master it. Not complain about what it should have been. Want some nostalgia, go play 64. Want competition go play Melee. Want to have a fun and casual match play Brawl.

This new Smash will be great, no doubt about it. Think of all the features added to Brawl, and where they can develop those for the new game.

No matter what some people are going to complain and say they hate it, but they'll still play it. And many of the Smash fans will love it as much as we loved Brawl

 

[Carolus Rex]

I'm positively sure it's going to be the best in the series. Brawl did disappoint only because the project was bigger than the machine which runs it. Less characters? That's absurd.

Brawl was full of great stages and scenarios... You talking about only the more basic ones makes me think you're one of those who wants to play only on Final Destination without items. Then you're the problem, not Brawl.

 

[PikaJew]

I'm positively sure it's going to be the best in the series. Brawl did disappoint only because the project was bigger than the machine which runs it. Less characters? That's absurd.

Brawl was full of great stages and scenarios... You talking about only the more basic ones makes me think you're one of those who wants to play only on Final Destination without items. Then you're the problem, not Brawl.

Well said.

I'm so tired of all these tournament style players whining and complaining about every little thing.

They are such a small population of Smash players that play that way.

I love the crazy, unique stages. I love unpredictable items. It makes games more fun and exiting.

If you're going to complain that the games aren't like Melee, than just keep playing ****ing Melee. Stop trying to poison the experience for the rest of us because you want a Fox only battle on Final Destination with no items.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Well said.

I'm so tired of all these tournament style players whining and complaining about every little thing.

Y'know, at one point I would have agreed with you on this, but nowadays I see about as many people bashing anyone who dares to take Smash seriously or enjoy the game as anything more than as a random chaotic mess.

They are such a small population of Smash players that play that way.

So what? Does that mean the game shouldn't appeal to them at all?

I love the crazy, unique stages. I love unpredictable items. It makes games more fun and exiting.

Well, that's your opinion, and you're certainly entitled to it. I personally would prefer if Smash 4 felt fast enough that it didn't have to rely on random stages and items to feel exciting.

 

[Wario Bros.]

*Everything*

You've been here for 10 posts and I'm already liking you and agree with everything you've said.

But from my perspective, when a new games comes out (not just Smash) I keep my expectations low to avoid disappointments (but that doesn't mean I have zero expectations as I make some wishes I'd like).

And it's hard to get worried about a game when we have absolutely no solid gameplay details and especially we don't know what it LOOKS like. I'll probably start worrying when I actually see the games in action.

 

[Kink-Link5]

....that we are going to be SOOOOO disappointed in Smash 4. Especially the people that didn't even like Brawl. I just keep having the feeling that they're going to make it even more casual, take out more characters, and put in ones that we don't even want, and make them even more unbalanced. And make the stages even more horrible, with almost no good stages like FD and Smashville. And I'm not so sure about this Wii U - 3DS connectivity, I thought that it was gonna be the same game for different platforms, not have one version different and have different things. Now even though I think this might be the case I am still very excited for Smash 4! But I think I'm just gonna hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

So set your expectations low.

Once you get to the point where you expect to open the game case and find a cat turd, you're there.

"Well this game isn't that great, but at least it isn't a cat turd"

Just imagine everything in life is a cat turd until you know for sure otherwise.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

So set your expectations low.

Once you get to the point where you expect to open the game case and find a cat turd, you're there.

"Well this game isn't that great, but at least it isn't a cat turd"

Just imagine everything in life is a cat turd until you know for sure otherwise.

I dunno, some people are really into cat turds. Quite frankly I think no matter what's in the game box someone will be happy.

 

[TheCreator]

I've already decided that I'm going to enjoy it no matter what. Even if it's straight HORRIBLE. I'm going to find a way to enjoy it.

I'm expecting it to be good though, so.

 

[Renji64]

I feel the same way. You had melee that was geared towards hardcore fans then brawl comes out and it is slow and disappointing. Smash should appeal to both types of players tourament players are fans too. I played melee casually for years and enjoyed i don't understand what made it so hard. Hopefully this can get the series on the right track or it is just time to stop buying smash and play the only 2 good releases n64 and melee. I'm not expecting a melee 2 but i don't want a brawl 2.0 the next game needs to appeal to all players just not casual.

 

[PikaJew]

It's going to be a great game no matter what.
And people are going to have a problem with it no matter what.

Even if you didn't enjoy the play style of Brawl, you can't deny the fact that they had so many great options to make the playing experience more enjoyable. My Music was incredible. And although the storymode and stage builder could have been better, I'm really thankful they added those features.

@shinpichu ,
I'm not saying that this game should not appeal to the more hardcore gamers who flock to Melee, because no matter what it will. There are still competitive games for Brawl, options to set up a level playing field on Final Destination, Fox, no items, and all that stuff so they can compete.

And there are still people who can have a complete monopoly in Brawl matches and become an unstoppable force. People can get competitive with any game, Brawl just has smaller details to make it more of a level playing field.

I'm just tired of people complaining about Brawl because it wasn't a carbon copy of Melee's fighting style. The jump from 64 to Melee was almost unbearable. Side B moves?? Sidestepping?? Dodging in the air??? Throwing up and down?? But you got used to it, and many mastered it. Same with Brawl. They got used to the lighter feel. Got used to the frustrations of tripping.

The new Smash will cater to both competitive and casual gamers like Brawl did. Brawl didn't cater to Melee competitive players... but there are some amazing Brawl players out there...

 

[Banjodorf]

While I agree that Melee's competitivity sometimes alienated SOME players, even if they couldn't figure out the advanced techniques it was still a bit faster and no less fun. Why should elements that some find fun vanish when most have no problem with them in the first place?


I even know players who don't play competitively that found Melee a more satisfying experience than Brawl, and generally nowadays only want to play Poject M despite not knowing how to L-Cancel or Wavedash.


Just because you don't enjoy how some players make everything competitive, doesn't mean it's right to take it away from an "assumed" minority.

 

[DarkShadow20]

I liked all three games but was most disappointed with Melee since I much preferred the gameplay in the original and since Melee didn't add very many characters that I had wanted. I'm sure I'll like these next two games as well.

 

[Curious Villager]

Was Brawl... really that terrible...?

But yeah, just have a little faith in them. I'm sure they can work something out that works for everyone... ^^;

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Was Brawl... really that terrible...?

I don't care for it myself. Having said that, I do think that some Melee fans have a tendency to exaggerate how bad Brawl is.

 

[Kirbunny431]

I hope they speed the game up to about Melee speed. Something about swooping in and laying down a lot of damage on your opponent in Melee is incredibly satisfying and fun. In Brawl, it all feels too slow. Having said that, I still really like Brawl.

Although I think you need a bit more faith, OP. The team knows what they're doing. This is going to be the biggest and best Smash ever. On release day (or whenever you pick up the game), you'll be able to sit down and think, "Boy, I sure was wrong." I agree that some of Brawl's stages were horrendous (go die in a hole 75m and New Pork City), but all we can do is hope that Sakurai realizes that.

 

[Big-Cat]

I'm just tired of people complaining about Brawl because it wasn't a carbon copy of Melee's fighting style. The jump from 64 to Melee was almost unbearable. Side B moves?? Sidestepping?? Dodging in the air??? Throwing up and down?? But you got used to it, and many mastered it. Same with Brawl. They got used to the lighter feel. Got used to the frustrations of tripping.

The new Smash will cater to both competitive and casual gamers like Brawl did. Brawl didn't cater to Melee competitive players... but there are some amazing Brawl players out there...

Unbearable? Interesting word choice you have there. Sure, there was a lot of new stuff to learn, but you never hear of anyone saying learn those things was an arbitrary nightmare. At worst, it was a mild learning curve.

And it's not so much that people were disappointed with Brawl not being Melee 2.0, but rather that it actually downgraded itself in gameplay. I, myself, was disappointed that the potential that both 64 and Melee demonstrated in their core designs was never utilized in Brawl.

 

[nessokman]

It will only disappoint the melee fantards hoping for a melee clone. The only reason brawl was hated was because they removed techniques that nobody really cares about.Wavedashing is a glitch if i recall as well, Not a real technique. they made brawl alot less competitive.

Sakurai will still cram the game full of content, look at brawl and uprising.So much to do.... Its all about adapting to new styles of game play.I'll laugh my butt off when i get online on the early days of smash 4 and people are attempting to wavedash unsuccessfully.

Meleetards will be the only ones upset with the new smash.Hell they still haven't overcome their butthurt emotions that brawl brought upon them.They will experience triple the butthurt when the new smash has a brand new playstyle.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

It will only disappoint the melee fantards hoping for a melee clone. The only reason brawl was hated was because they removed techniques that nobody really cares about and made it alot less competitive.Sakurai will still cram the game full of content, look at brawl and uprising.So much to do.....

I could honestly care less is L-canceling or wavedashing returned. I just want the game to feel faster and for combos to be a thing again.

Meleetards will be the only ones upset with the new smash.Hell they still haven't overcome their butthurt emotions that brawl brought upon them.They will experience triple the butthurt when the new smash has a brand new playstyle.

There will likely be Brawl fans upset at changes made to the new game. There will walways be some people who complain about something just because its different.

 

[PikaJew]

Unbearable? Interesting word choice you have there. Sure, there was a lot of new stuff to learn, but you never hear of anyone saying learn those things was an arbitrary nightmare. At worst, it was a mild learning curve.

And it's not so much that people were disappointed with Brawl not being Melee 2.0, but rather that it actually downgraded itself in gameplay. I, myself, was disappointed that the potential that both 64 and Melee demonstrated in their core designs was never utilized in Brawl.

I had a lot of friends who went back to playing 64 until they forced themselves to adapt.

But like with Brawl there was that learning curve. The play style is completely different so you need to think of new combos, new ways to attack, find a new character to play with.

I didn't downgrade it's gameplay, it just wasn't Melee's gameplay. The problem is everyone is comparing it to Melee when they are two completely different games. Did you want it to be a Call of Duty thing where the gameplay stayed the exact same but just added new features? Where's the fun in that?

Not utilized? Brawl is easily the best out of the series. So much to offer and so much depth to it. 64 was great because you could easily dominate a match with any character, and Melee was just a bunch of Fox's and Falco's.

Brawl's gameplay adds more variety to the game and it makes the experience much more entertaining.

I said this a millions times, if you're going to complain about Brawl not being Melee, just be quiet and play Melee.

 

[Curious Villager]

I don't care for it myself. Having said that, I do think that some Melee fans have a tendency to exaggerate how bad Brawl is.

I suppose so. I mean, there were indeed a number of thing's I didn't like in Brawl either such as what they did with target smash and the trophies as well as tripping and I suppose the gameplay did feel a little slow but I honestly didn't think the game was that bad. I still quite enjoyed it.

But yeah, like it was said, just have a bit more faith in the developers.

 

[---]

Can we get this thread locked already like the rest of them that keep asking this same question? What is this, the third time someone has asked this?

The game itself will be different than previous games, that's just Sakurai's style (and because rehashes suck). If you're worried about the game, go play Uprising, as per Sakurai's recommendation, to determine whether or not you should be worried. Keep in mind, however, that no game is ever truly perfect or truly balanced so go in with a reasonable set of expectations.

As for the competitive stuff, yes Smash should start, for the first time, to take a bit more care in it's competitive side instead of always acting like Mario Kart (Blue Shells = Tripping). However completely giving into the demands of such a small part of the fanbase is ridiculous. As for what that should be, who knows, but it's a good bet that it won't be gameplay mechanic wise (except for possibly tripping).

As for support from Sakurai, honestly don't expect him to start supporting the competitive side anytime soon. It's not because he's against it, but because he doesn't like sticking to one project all the time, before he even started development of this game he's already confirmed his plans for the next game he's going to work on afterwards. Thankfully we have Harada who will probably be the one to serve as a slight balance to Sakurai's developing style as well as Nintendo (?) who seems to be starting to grow a bit more supportive in the past few years.

 

[PIKA321]

You totally misunderstood me. I love brawl, and I love melee too, and N64 also! And I really don't want a clone of any of them. I just wasn't sure how fun this game was gonna be.

Less characters? That's absurd.

I wasn't saying that it would have less characters I was saying that I hope they don't take out all the good characters and put in new crappy ones, or ruin the good ones like they did with mario's down special. (The F.L.U.D.D. is so ********.)

 

[nessokman]

You totally misunderstood me. I love brawl, and I love melee too, and N64 also! And I really don't want a clone of any of them. I just wasn't sure how fun this game was gonna be.

I wasn't saying that it would have less characters I was saying that I hope they don't take out all the good characters and put in new crappy ones, or ruin the good ones like they did with mario's down special. (The F.L.U.D.D. is so ********.)

F.L.U.D.D? Marios? Its great to help recover.If an opponent does the up special and falls in a vulnerable stance, you can blow them back.since it doesn't damage them, they can't up special again and die.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

F.L.U.D.D? Marios? Its great to help recover.If an opponent does the up special and falls in a vulnerable stance, you can blow them back.since it doesn't damage them, they can't up special again and die.

Cutting Tornado for FLUDD was an incredibly bad idea. It hurt his recovery, and gave no real other benefit, since Cape was already good enough for gimping recoveries.

 

[PIKA321]

Cutting Tornado for FLUDD was an incredibly bad idea. It hurt his recovery, and gave no real other benefit, since Cape was already good enough for gimping recoveries.

Agreed, the tornado was one of mario's best moves in my opinion, besides the cape.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Agreed, the tornado was one of mario's best moves in my opinion, besides the cape.

Meh, not really. It's very situational, only really being useful for his recovery. Cape is godlike though.

Of course, I don't actually main Mario, I main Doc, whose most important moves are different.

 

[PIKA321]

Meh, not really. It's very situational, only really being useful for his recovery. Cape is godlike though.

Of course, I don't actually main Mario, I main Doc, whose most important moves are different.

Are they really that different? I never really noticed the difference.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Are they really that different? I never really noticed the difference.

It's not something as obvious as, say, the difference between Marth and Roy. The differences are subtle enough that you can't say "Doc is like Mario, but he's more *insert easy to spot characteristic here*."
[COLLAPSE="Differences I can remember"]-Docs fAir isn't a meteor Smash
-Docs uTilt and dash attack have different trajectories than Marios
-Doc can only cape once and gain distance when in the air.
-Megavitamins have a different trajectory that Fireballs.
-His fSmash has a shorter range, but I think is more powerful.
-Doc has a faster air speed.
-His nAir sex kick has reverse properties of normal sex kicks(it grows stronger the longer it stays out).[/COLLAPSE]

 

[Kink-Link5]

It will only disappoint the melee fantards hoping for a melee clone. The only reason brawl was hated was because they removed techniques that nobody really cares about.Wavedashing is a glitch if i recall as well, Not a real technique. they made brawl alot less competitive.

Sakurai will still cram the game full of content, look at brawl and uprising.So much to do.... Its all about adapting to new styles of game play.I'll laugh my butt off when i get online on the early days of smash 4 and people are attempting to wavedash unsuccessfully.

Meleetards will be the only ones upset with the new smash.Hell they still haven't overcome their butthurt emotions that brawl brought upon them.They will experience triple the butthurt when the new smash has a brand new playstyle.

"fantards"

"removed techniques no one cared about"

"Wavedashing was a glitch."

"Wavedashing was not a real technique"

"Meleetards"

"Butthurt"

"Butthurt"


You are sort of the reason why very few people take this standpoint seriously.

 

[Falconv1.0]

You know I forget sometimes why I only post in the Pool Room and User Blogs, and then I stumble upon gems like PikaJew's inability to spell "exciting" and I do this:

 

[PikaJew]

You know I forget sometimes why I only post in the Pool Room and User Blogs, and then I stumble upon gems like PikaJew's inability to spell "exciting" and I do this:

So we got spelling misteighk Nazis on theis syte two?
Grate.

And of course the guy with the boner for Melee goes after anyone who calls Melee fanboys annoying.
But can't think of anything else to say besides a spelling mistake.

 

[Revven]

I said this a millions times, if you're going to complain about Brawl not being Melee, just be quiet and play Melee.

Okay, let's not constructively criticize what's wrong with anything. Let's just accept everything the way it is because... we have to! Because we have to adapt. Adapting is the answer. There's no other way around it. Adapting is the ultimate thing anyone can do to "fix" what they don't like about something.

Yes, let's ignore all the flaws about Brawl going into Smash 4 and not be cautious about how good it may be.

Give me a break, it's 2013 and you're still beating that dead horse about "adapting" and "mastering" Brawl like it's sacred and can't be hated? Brawl is not a special case. Sakurai made it abundantly clear how he felt about competitive players. He chose to alienate them by stripping Brawl completely of anything that made Smash a competitively enjoyable game to spectate and play.

Yes there is a competitive scene and I commend people for playing it. But the game, in my opinion, as a competitive game... I never had fun with it.

If you can't see why people don't like it, then there is no convincing you and you shouldn't be trying to tell others to "be quiet" when their opinions are just as valid as your own. Respect each other. Everybody is on this site for the same franchise, but each and every person likes/plays the series for their own reasons. Trying to shove your thoughts down some sect of the community's throats does not help whatsoever. Especially when this site is the hub of that sect of the community.

People who play Melee have been perfectly happy. There is no reason to go on this "I hate competitive players for stating flaws about the game I like, I take offense to it!" when they're not insulting you directly. Stop being overly sensitive.

For being someone new, I am hugely disappointed in your attitude. Clean it up.

 

[PikaJew]

Okay, let's not constructively criticize what's wrong with anything. Let's just accept everything the way it is because... we have to! Because we have to adapt. Adapting is the answer. There's no other way around it. Adapting is the ultimate thing anyone can do to "fix" what they don't like about something.

Yes, let's ignore all the flaws about Brawl going into Smash 4 and not be cautious about how good it may be.

Give me a break, it's 2013 and you're still beating that dead horse about "adapting" and "mastering" Brawl like it's sacred and can't be hated? Brawl is not a special case. Sakurai made it abundantly clear how he felt about competitive players. He chose to alienate them by stripping Brawl completely of anything that made Smash a competitively enjoyable game to spectate and play.

Yes there is a competitive scene and I commend people for playing it. But the game, in my opinion, as a competitive game... I never had fun with it.

If you can't see why people don't like it, then there is no convincing you and you shouldn't be trying to tell others to "be quiet" when their opinions are just as valid as your own. Respect each other. Everybody is on this site for the same franchise, but each and every person likes/plays the series for their own reasons. Trying to shove your thoughts down some sect of the community's throats does not help whatsoever.

People who play Melee have been perfectly happy. There is no reason to go on this "I hate competitive players for stating flaws about the game I like, I take offense to it!" when they're not insulting you directly. Stop being overly sensitive.

For being someone new, I am hugely disappointed in your attitude. Clean it up.

But Brawl can be competitive... just not in a Melee way.

Yeah Brawl is a "more fair" game to play but that in no way means you can't master it. It's just a different style that you need to master.

I don't understand why Brawl is the anti-christ of the Smash world for it's competitiveness. If you're comparing it to Melee (which everyone is) than no you can't master combos and do wavedashes or whatever you guys are upset about not being in Brawl.

All 3 of the Smash Bros games can be played competitively. The problem is everyone has that mindset of Melee being the token gameplay model. When the jump from Melee to Brawl isn't as crazy as many of you are saying.

It's fine if you don't like Brawl, but don't try to justify it by saying it's not competitive. It doesn't play like Melee, so you can't play it in a Melee way.

 

[Vkrm]

pikajew is a scrub. Don't waste time responding to him. Sakurai wanted to take the emphasis off winning and make smash more about the laughs. No one is mad that it's not melee 2.0. We all wanted something new. But we WEREN'T about to play something bad just because its new.

 

[Revven]

It's fine if you don't like Brawl, but don't try to justify it by saying it's not competitive. It doesn't play like Melee, so you can't play it in a Melee way.

Nowhere in my post did I say it wasn't a competitive game. I said I personally did not like it as a competitive game. Ergo I did not have fun playing it competitively for the time that I did.

Did I say Sakurai alienated competitive players? Yes. But that does not mean or equate to me saying Brawl isn't competitive. It has a competitive scene, I acknowledge that. But it fundamentally wasn't designed to be competitive. Melee was designed to be hardcore, Brawl wasn't. Sakurai said so himself 2 years ago in an interview.

If you're not a competitive player, you won't understand what people did not like about Brawl and why so many regard it as two steps backward.

I don't understand why Brawl is the anti-christ of the Smash world for it's competitiveness. If you're comparing it to Melee (which everyone is) than no you can't master combos and do wavedashes or whatever you guys are upset about not being in Brawl.

All 3 of the Smash Bros games can be played competitively. The problem is everyone has that mindset of Melee being the token gameplay model. When the jump from Melee to Brawl isn't as crazy as many of you are saying

Once again, you don't understand what makes Melee really good. It's not about the techniques or combos. It's more than that. Way more. So much more.

 

[Vkrm]

@ nessokman neither wavedashing or l canceling are glitches. In 2000 they released a demo disk to promote melee before it's release in Japan. It wasn't playable. All it had was footage of target test and different single player modes. The freaking devs used both l canceling and wavelanding in BTT before the game was released. If they didn't want it there, they could have taken that stuff out.


Not glitches. Even if they were they made the game much better. Jump installs in GG, kara throwing, even combos in sf2 were technically glitches. L cancel and wave dashing were both features taken out to accommodate weaker players who care about their performance enough to complain, but not enough to actually improve.

 

[Kirbunny431]

I'm not qualified to talk about the competitive aspects of either game (as I have zero idea about any of them), but I will fight to the ends of the Earth to defend my opinion that Brawl is not a bad game in general. Bad competitive game? I wouldn't know. Bad video game? Not by a long shot.

Wait, what am I doing? Am I really posting in another one of those Melee/Brawl discussions? What has happened to me? I'm going to get out while I can. Run!

 

[PikaJew]

L cancel and wave dashing were both features taken out to accommodate weaker players who care about their performance enough to complain, but not enough to actually improve.

That's a pretty arrogant statement.

Most people don't go on this site so they don't get the advantage of learning all these new techniques. You can be a great Melee player without knowing how to do these moves.
Not as good as professionals but they go to tournaments and spend every waking moment practicing so what do you expect.

No one mastered l-cancelling or wavedashing without seeing it done online. So that's pretty ignorant to say the only way you gain skill is by practicing techniques you'd normally never know about.

 

[El Duderino]

Wow, talk about melodrama. PikaJew must have been cryogenically frozen in 2008 because that is the last time I've heard someone this worked up over comparing Melee and Brawl's competitive potential.