Important Hyrule Warrior - The Sheik Matchup Database

[Absol]

Been having issues with fighting Kirby's lately. Got sent to losers by one first, than knocked out by one. I would normally try to force them to approach with needles (Kirby doesn't have the best neutral game), but they crouch under everything. I usually charge needles and then cancel into grab, but they down tilt when they see me approach. Any advice?

Just make Kirby approach and counter attack. That's literally the answer. You don't need to force an approach against a slow character. Especially when he has some of the best frame data in the game.

 

[Hoenn]

If a kirby just sits in place and ducks, I like to dance around his range, but not commit to anything, in a way that I can't be punished, at a range where he can't just react to what I throw at him, then he starts to stop ducking, maybe shield, maybe roll or spot dodge
Like, the only thing you should be committing too is walling or running options incase he starts to approach

but at this point, he has to stop ducking, if he isn't ducking, he is just a normal slow character and do what absol said

If he insists on ducking, keep pressuring him in this way, but keep not committing, if the kirby keeps insisting on not leaving the ducking animation, then hit him with something he can't react to, he is literally giving you a free hit, he is being reactive, so again, just don't let him react

but throwing things at a ducking kirby is really risky, I want to emphasize that, so only commit to hitting him when you are sure that he is being reactive, kirby will win just by damage output if you guess wrong, BUT dancing around him has almost no risk if you do it safely and don't commit, but the ONLY purpose to committing with really fast options that beat out reaction time is to make them know that they cannot get away with ducking too much

IDK this is how I play this matchup, I used to help another good sheik practice this matchup with my kirby, and I have played a few good kirby players with my sheik, I am no expert, but this DID work for me really well

 

[WondrousMoose]

If a kirby just sits in place and ducks, I like to dance around his range, but not commit to anything, in a way that I can't be punished, at a range where he can't just react to what I throw at him, then he starts to stop ducking, maybe shield, maybe roll or spot dodge
Like, the only thing you should be committing too is walling or running options incase he starts to approach

but at this point, he has to stop ducking, if he isn't ducking, he is just a normal slow character and do what absol said

If he insists on ducking, keep pressuring him in this way, but keep not committing, if the kirby keeps insisting on not leaving the ducking animation, then hit him with something he can't react to, he is literally giving you a free hit, he is being reactive, so again, just don't let him react

but throwing things at a ducking kirby is really risky, I want to emphasize that, so only commit to hitting him when you are sure that he is being reactive, kirby will win just by damage output if you guess wrong, BUT dancing around him has almost no risk if you do it safely and don't commit, but the ONLY purpose to committing with really fast options that beat out reaction time is to make them know that they cannot get away with ducking too much

IDK this is how I play this matchup, I used to help another good sheik practice this matchup with my kirby, and I have played a few good kirby players with my sheik, I am no expert, but this DID work for me really well

Do you mind posting that in the dedicated Kirby matchup thread? I feel it's best to keep everything as organized as possible.

 

[{Kyro}]

I think that the vs. Cloud matchup is actually worth discussing. Although it could be argued that Sheik has an advantage over Cloud (which I agree with, as a Cloud secondary), with his early limit break kills and Shulk-esque range combined with speed and moves that are safe on shield, it's worth noting.

While Sheik combos Cloud really hard, Cloud combos Sheik almost harder, due to Sheik's lack of downwards attacks making her easy to juggle with Cloud's amazing uair, utilt and usmash. In addition, it can be argued that Sheik has to approach Cloud in this matchup due to his limit break charge.

What do you guys think? In my opinion it's worth mentioning.

 

[Absol]

I think it's too early for his meta to discuss right now. I'd give it one more month.

 

[{Kyro}]

Can someone give me tips on Peach? Smashlader just reminded me how much I hate playing against Peach... Ugh

 

[R0m4n]

I'd need some advice against Mario. I try to space fair to the max but as soon as he starts nairing and bairing I can't seem toi hit anything...

I also can't OoS-punish him cause all his aerials come out so quickly it's just very annoying and getting grabbed once means like 70+%. I might DI terrible but oh man...

 

[Absol]

Can someone give me tips on Peach? Smashlader just reminded me how much I hate playing against Peach... Ugh

Just keep the timer in your head of when they have to drop. Most aggressive Sheiks do not so well against peach. Adopt a more patience play style against her, and understand when she can combo break

I'd need some advice against Mario. I try to space fair to the max but as soon as he starts nairing and bairing I can't seem toi hit anything...

I also can't OoS-punish him cause all his aerials come out so quickly it's just very annoying and getting grabbed once means like 70+%. I might DI terrible but oh man...

The name of the game is to only be killed by marios bthrow. Don't over extend, stay grounded, use Nair to stuff his aerials. Also if you flick down during his dair hitting you sheik slides down

 

[Xinc]

Hello everybody! On behalf of the Ganon boards, I would like to extend to you all a visit to our wonderful lair here. We are currently doing a matchup analysis and we are up to Ganon v Sheik.

I promise this will be a peaceful negotiation and we will refrain from laying siege to Hyrule during our negotiation.

Thank you.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The Rosalina sub-forum is analyzing Sheik again this week. Here's the link to the page if you have anything to contribute.

http://smashboards.com/threads/408233/

 

[Aldolies]

I need some help against Jigglypuff. Between her really good aerial mobility, long-lasting hitboxes on her fair and bair, and her lack of weight keeping me from stringing any sort of combo together, I can't get any momentum going. I also feel like I get hit by rest way more than is normal. Can anyone give me some advice?

i have never fought against Jiggly but the way she always been played is in the air, i think the best way to fight against her is not in the air but in the ground she would have the adventage on the air, but in the ground she is pretty slow, she still have some strong attacks on the ground but they are easy to punish, don't try to combo her, just be pacient and build up damage, staying pacient would give you the chance to recognize your opponets habits and optimize your punish against your opponent

 

[Gemba Board]

Is it too early for a corrin MU discussion or nah?

 

[WondrousMoose]

Is it too early for a corrin MU discussion or nah?

He's been out almost two months at this point, but I feel we have more important matchups to discuss. To be honest, though, rather than figure out how to fight others, we're all still figuring out how to play Sheik....

 

[Gemba Board]

He's been out almost two months at this point, but I feel we have more important matchups to discuss. To be honest, though, rather than figure out how to fight others, we're all still figuring out how to play Sheik....

Oh okay, thanks anyway. The corrin threads don't have anything solid on shiek yet and I was hoping you guys had gotten to it already.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Oh okay, thanks anyway. The corrin threads don't have anything solid on shiek yet and I was hoping you guys had gotten to it already.

Sheik....

Not shiek

 

[WondrousMoose]

Sheik....

Not shiek

Bro, he's trying, bro.

 

[JesusMorpheus]

Hello fellow sheik players! We Blue Bombers are discussing our matchup with you at the moment and would greatly appreciate any input! Here is the link to our thread:

http://smashboards.com/threads/boss-select-megaman-matchup-discussion-2-0-week-5-sheik.431933/page-3

 

[Gearitz]

What do you guys think shiek's losing matchups are post patch?

 

[{Kyro}]

What do you guys think shiek's losing matchups are post patch?

I'll answer Ryu before Absol goes on a five-page tirade

 

[ArikadoSD]

What do you guys think shiek's losing matchups are post patch?

Ryu, Lucario, Rosa, and maybe Pikachu... and maybe yoshi

and a lot of even mus. basically if u play a character thats not little mac or ganon you have a pretty damn good chance against sheik.

 

[Dr.Peabody]

lol Ryu. Have you tried ducking against him?

 

[Smashkid13]

which are the most "difficult" MU for sheik?

Probably Mario, Sonic, and maybe Yoshi

How do you guys fight Shulk ?
I have many problems against him because he outranges me everytime with nair and i can't get in.

Do you have any tips for that matchup ?

Get in his face a lot, don't let him switch to Smash or Buster and DON'T GET HIT

http://smashboards.com/threads/vs-sheik-matchup-discussion-and-analysis.422136/
Hey guys. Any vs insight? @A_Kae opened up a discussion thread for this match up a little while ago found in the link above. I'd like to get a decent understanding of what makes sheik tick when she's up against marth. The neutral game against sheik in particular is what bothers me. She makes me feel like marth's disjoints aren't really disjoints. Anyway, our discussion thread on this matchup is still empty if anyone wants to share over there. Thanks guys!

Get in his face to avoid tippers, and when you're away just use needles

 

[McWaffles]

Having issues with Pac-Man and Olimalph... any advice? Thanks!

 

[Subtilizer]

Having major issues with sonic and his spin dash especially any help?

 

[Daymaster]

Having major issues with sonic and his spin dash especially any help?

Sonic's Spin Dash has no "priority" (for lack of a better world; there is no priority in Smash 4), meaning that Fair, Needles and so on have absolutely no problem hitting him out of it. So long as Sonic is at a distance so you have time to react, you can punish it extremely hard if your spacing is on point, or at least get free Needle damage if not.

 

[Subtilizer]

Sonic's Spin Dash has no "priority" (for lack of a better world; there is no priority in Smash 4), meaning that Fair, Needles and so on have absolutely no problem hitting him out of it. So long as Sonic is at a distance so you have time to react, you can punish it extremely hard if your spacing is on point, or at least get free Needle damage if not.

I've tried all this and just can't seem to actually hit that blue ball, guess my spacing just sucks but I always seem to miss my fair and then get punished hard same with needles, sonics just seem to to jump over them and punish me pretty hard during end lag. I can't really find a way to approach sonic as a result which seems to be my main problem

 

[Daymaster]

I've tried all this and just can't seem to actually hit that blue ball, guess my spacing just sucks but I always seem to miss my fair and then get punished hard same with needles, sonics just seem to jump over them and punish me pretty hard during end lag. I can't really find a way to approach sonic as a result which seems to be my main problem

You should probably just ask someone to play with you in training (or 99 stock if it's online) and have them spam Spin Dash at you until you can space it correctly; this should help your spacing as well as reactions to the move. In the case that you can't do this, however, you should try to keep your distance, but not longer than the max Needle range. This will give you more time to react when they approach as well as ensure that they can't punish if the Needles end up missing. In that case, try and roll towards them when they would be just about to hit you so that they miss, reseting neutral.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Fully convinced now that the bowser mu is in the range of 45:55 to 55:45, leaning towards the latter, but that mu is honestly horrendous lmao

Her main approach option (fair) is shut down by bowser's fair/bair both of which outrange it but are slower a bit, up angled ftilt, dtilt, pivot grab, or shielded and punished w/ up b oos. You can try a low fair to the ground and jab afterwards to not lot him up b oos but it doesn't always work for reasons I don't understand yet. Needle camping only gives him stage positioning, and he can kill with uthrow uair at like 60-70% and side b is an aerial/grounded command grab that comes out frame 8/11, which is absurd. Not to mention his other random kill options, usmash, bair, fair, a randy uair, dtilt. Usmash especially can cover landings really well if you've exhausted ur dj + bf. Aaaaand uthrow nair does like 25-30% lmao

Then comes the fact that Bowser is amazing at covering all ledge options one way or the other.

This mu has never been bad for bowser, maybe 60:40 prepatch but that's the worst it's ever gotten besides prepatch bowser.

It feels very weird to say this but I've been thinking this for a while and thought it was just me, but lord mix beating void and vinnie's sheiks isnt a coincidence, and even he himself has sheik at 45:55 (our favour) lol

 

[Daymaster]

Fully convinced now that the bowser mu is in the range of 45:55 to 55:45, leaning towards the latter, but that mu is honestly horrendous lmao

Her main approach option (fair) is shut down by bowser's fair/bair both of which outrange it but are slower a bit, up angled ftilt, dtilt, pivot grab, or shielded and punished w/ up b oos. You can try a low fair to the ground and jab afterwards to not lot him up b oos but it doesn't always work for reasons I don't understand yet. Needle camping only gives him stage positioning, and he can kill with uthrow uair at like 60-70% and side b is an aerial/grounded command grab that comes out frame 8/11, which is absurd. Not to mention his other random kill options, usmash, bair, fair, a randy uair, dtilt. Usmash especially can cover landings really well if you've exhausted ur dj + bf. Aaaaand uthrow nair does like 25-30% lmao

Then comes the fact that Bowser is amazing at covering all ledge options one way or the other.

This mu has never been bad for bowser, maybe 60:40 prepatch but that's the worst it's ever gotten besides prepatch bowser.

It feels very weird to say this but I've been thinking this for a while and thought it was just me, but lord mix beating void and vinnie's sheiks isnt a coincidence, and even he himself has sheik at 45:55 (our favour) lol

You make it sound like Fair is our only way of getting in. We not only have our Nair and RAR Bair, but also a fast dash speed which lets us effectivly use extended dash dancing, a decent Perfect Pivot and Pivot F-tilt. Also, even if Fair and Bair cover our SH Fair, we do have ways of mixing up our aerial approaches, with Fullhops, C-bounces, B-reverse Needles and potentialy Shorthop Airdodge. Needle camping is not really a thing anymore; we mainly just use it to occasionaly tack on damage at mid range now. It's a challenge for Bowser to get a grab, meaning that him killing at those very early percents it not going to happen too often, but it's still a factor especialy given out weight nerf. Getting us to exhaust our Double Jump and BF in the first place is a challenge, but Up Smash could still come in to play. You are right about his ledge coverage and U-throw U-air.

 

[ArikadoSD]

You make it sound like Fair is our only way of getting in. We not only have our Nair and RAR Bair, but also a fast dash speed which lets us effectivly use extended dash dancing, a decent Perfect Pivot and Pivot F-tilt. Also, even if Fair and Bair cover our SH Fair, we do have ways of mixing up our aerial approaches, with Fullhops, C-bounces, B-reverse Needles and potentialy Shorthop Airdodge. Needle camping is not really a thing anymore; we mainly just use it to occasionaly tack on damage at mid range now. It's a challenge for Bowser to get a grab, meaning that him killing at those very early percents it not going to happen too often, but it's still a factor especialy given out weight nerf. Getting us to exhaust our Double Jump and BF in the first place is a challenge, but Up Smash could still come in to play. You are right about his ledge coverage and U-throw U-air.

There's no denying fair is the best way to get in though, nair is ok and I don't think bair would be viable as an approach option in this mu, it's hitbox placement is a bit weird and you can't land on shield against bowser w/ it, that's basically asking to get punished with one of bowser's oos options.

Extended dash dancing ain't gonna help you get in though lol, it's really good for falcon cuz he's always on the lookout for dash grabs and marcina cuz it's a great movement option for them, but what does sheik get out of it? not only is her fox trot bad, but she also doesn't have the same amount of options that characters who benefit a lot from extended dash dancing do, at least out of a dash. Sheik prefers walking because that allows us to do ftilts and dtilts on command, with running as an option if walking is too slow.

SHAD is useless, because if you don't cancel it with fair/nair before landing (which don't bring out the hitbox) then u'll suffer lag, and if you do u'll suffer their 10 frames of landing lag, but eh, a mixup's a mixup i guess.

I also definitely don't think it's a challenge for bowser to get a grab what with his absurd pivot grab and his ok dash grab/good run speed.

 

[Daymaster]

There's no denying fair is the best way to get in though, nair is ok and I don't think bair would be viable as an approach option in this mu, it's hitbox placement is a bit weird and you can't land on shield against bowser w/ it, that's basically asking to get punished with one of bowser's oos options.

Extended dash dancing ain't gonna help you get in though lol, it's really good for falcon cuz he's always on the lookout for dash grabs and marcina cuz it's a great movement option for them, but what does sheik get out of it? not only is her fox trot bad, but she also doesn't have the same amount of options that characters who benefit a lot from extended dash dancing do, at least out of a dash. Sheik prefers walking because that allows us to do ftilts and dtilts on command, with running as an option if walking is too slow.

SHAD is useless, because if you don't cancel it with fair/nair before landing (which don't bring out the hitbox) then u'll suffer lag, and if you do u'll suffer their 10 frames of landing lag, but eh, a mixup's a mixup i guess.

I also definitely don't think it's a challenge for bowser to get a grab what with his absurd pivot grab and his ok dash grab/good run speed.

You're right about most of this, but if the player is consistant with Foxtrots, Sheik's grab game can be greatly assisted by EDD. In addition to helping with mindgames to alow forn grabs, EDD also lets you Perfect Pivot and Quickstep at almost any moment, letting Sheik use Tilts out of a dash. It's benefits like this that confuse me as to why people only EDD with Falcon and Mac.

 

[Derpnaster]

Hello, I'm having an issue with R.O.B as Link so I'm looking at using Shiek to counter it. Any advice on how I should go about that?

For an Idea of my skill level, I know exactly zero ATs for Shiek, at least not to a consistent level. I'm still just learning Shiek.

 

[ArikadoSD]

My first advice is to learn how to spell Sheik correctly.

 

[WondrousMoose]

My first advice is to learn how to spell Sheik correctly.

Wow, great help, bro.

 

[Daymaster]

Hello, I'm having an issue with R.O.B as Link so I'm looking at using Shiek to counter it. Any advice on how I should go about that?

For an Idea of my skill level, I know exactly zero ATs for Shiek, at least not to a consistent level. I'm still just learning Shiek.

Could you be more specific? What is it about them that is giving you issues?

 

[Derpnaster]

Could you be more specific? What is it about them that is giving you issues?

Well as Link ROB tends to just box me in and proceed to pull off nothing but grab combos and top pressure until I'm forced offstage and thus to death because Link lacks a really safe recovery when dealing with ROB.

Today I tried a little labbing with a friend who has a very good ROB. I got past the pressure with Sheik's godly movement speed but I've really only really gotten that far. What I need now is a way to push what I have once I break the zone and get ROB in the disadvantage.

 

[Daymaster]

At low percents, you are able to do at least 19% off a grab (f-throw to Bouncing Fish or D-throw to Perfect Piviot Up Tilt into F-tilt combos). At mid percents, Fair strings and soft-hit Nair combos are your friend. At all times you should make sure that you are not abusing Shield as the Beep Bop combos he can do off D-throw are very damaging.

 

[Derpnaster]

At low percents, you are able to do at least 19% off a grab (f-throw to Bouncing Fish or D-throw to Perfect Piviot Up Tilt into F-tilt combos). At mid percents, Fair strings and soft-hit Nair combos are your friend. At all times you should make sure that you are not abusing Shield as the Beep Bop combos he can do off D-throw are very damaging.

Thank you very much for the advice I will try to make use of it next time I fight ROB.

 

[McWaffles]

yo guys still need help on the pac-matchup and the corrin matchup.

 

[Derpnaster]

Corrin has absolutely no priority except with her projectile over needles. She's also a midweight with somewhat slow running speed so as long as you respect her reach you can pretty much just get in with nair and do standard Sheik Things to her. However Corin does have some wide aerials so it's best not to challenge as you will lose more than you win. Her Recovery is also not too great but you can't really gimp it because the wings are disjointed.

I should note that I mainly use Link against corin so it's more theory right now. Link and Sheik do share a similar nair and Link's absolutely eats anything Corin has which makes approaches easy for a slow swordsman. With Sheik you have a lot more options and a much better combo game so get in get combo get out is much more viable on paper. Though now I do have to test this for myself.