Huge Johnz 2: Justice shall be served April 28th Portage IN venue confirmed

[Zjiin]

look at these 3 stages:
fd has no platforms
ps has low platforms
dl64 has high platforms

fd has a medium sized ceiling/deathbox
ps has a low ceiling
dl64 has a high ceiling


they all balance each other out pretty well, no one is really polarized by them (battlefield haters need not apply, lol), and you dont run into the problems w/ only 2 stages on random

I personally think this is fantastic.

 

[Undefined]

5150, I see your point, I know what you are saying about neutrals, but if you really want to get the point across then maybe you should point that out when you are playing somebody instead of by banning the stages.

no you still dont get it. we've been trying that in the mw FOREVER. but when you have different parties telling noobs opposite things, the noobs will listen to waht gives them that 1 win, not what helps them in the long run. so if the kid wont eat his broccoli, we aren't going to let that kid leave the table till its ALL gone.

I agree with you that learning to play on neutral stages is not a choice, and I think you don't understand that. But you have to understand where I am coming from too. If somebody counter picks corneria or dk64 because I won the first match, I would rather beat them 2-0 then risk losing the set because I don't know how to fight on non-neutral stages.

its funny, you STILL dont get it after hours of explaining to you. CORNERIA IS NOT HARD TO LEARN. NOR IS ANY STAGE IN THIS GAME. saying "learn the stages" is stupid. ive played on corneria longer than you've been playing this game (yes including before you knew about swf), and im not joking about that.

the stage is easy to learn. so is camping. learning to fight is not easy. where do you do that? neutral 6 levels.

oh and btw who cares if they take a game off you in corneria??? look what happened to b-ryan vs chad. chad camped him out on corneria, then bryan 3 stocked him next match. no one cares about it.

P.S. Crashman if you read this, I asked for your help on aim and you blocked me because I said you weren't the best samus. If you don't want to help me then I don't want your help. I can always talk to somebody like HugS or Wes (I have both of them on my AIM buddy list), and talk to THE BEST, not somebody who cries because they aren't the best. You should have felt good that somebody would even try to get help from you, not get all mad because they said you aren't the best.

i lolled at this. i lolled HARD.

I personally think this is fantastic.

make my tourney then. its prob gonna be june 2 in barrington il. ill post the thread when its 100% official.

 

[Mars-]

Blah...

make my tourney then. its prob gonna be june 2 in barrington il. ill post the thread when its 100% official.

Rofl. You continue to say I don't get it, and keep repeating what I just said. So please tell me, what don't I get? You keep saying that people need to learn to fight on neutral stages, I agree, and then you say that I don't get it? WTF are you talking about?

BTW, you keep acting like you are superior to new people by continually saying that noobs only do stupid stuff. Noobs get their information from these boards. Go find me one thread that says "Camp every battle" or something along those lines.

 

[Undefined]

Rofl. You continue to say I don't get it, and keep repeating what I just said. So please tell me, what don't I get? You keep saying that people need to learn to fight on neutral stages, I agree, and then you say that I don't get it? WTF are you talking about?

BTW, you keep acting like you are superior to new people by continually saying that noobs only do stupid stuff. Noobs get their information from these boards. Go find me one thread that says "Camp every battle" or something along those lines.

ok mars i give up ive posted it like 100x and ive told you on aim 100x. you ar ea lost cause.

 

[Mars-]

ok mars i give up ive posted it like 100x and ive told you on aim 100x. you ar ea lost cause.

You give up because you know I am right. I have been making logical statements and you come back with personal attacks. I was getting tired of responding to your illogical posts, so thank you for giving up.

 

[Undefined]

You give up because you know I am right. I have been making logical statements and you come back with personal attacks. I was getting tired of responding to your illogical posts, so thank you for giving up.

ok i've been very patient with you mars. ive exlained on here in like 100 posts. ive explained to you on aim. i have not personally attacked you.

but here goes, you cant read for ****, so far you are the only one who doesnt get it. coincidence? zjin gets it, maybe he can read. you are also VERY bad at this game and very new. that's not the problem though, the problem is you are dumb, AND stubborn, so you will never learn. gg keep being a scrub.

 

[Mars-]

ok i've been very patient with you mars. ive exlained on here in like 100 posts. ive explained to you on aim. i have not personally attacked you.

but here goes, you cant read for ****, so far you are the only one who doesnt get it. coincidence? zjin gets it, maybe he can read. you are also VERY bad at this game and very new. that's not the problem though, the problem is you are dumb, AND stubborn, so you will never learn. gg keep being a scrub.

Please reply to this otherwise you won't have the last word.

Zjiin gets it I get it, you just can't seem to get that I get it.

And you don't beleive me that your posts are all personal attacks?

but here goes, you cant read for ****, so far you are the only one who doesnt get it. coincidence? zjin gets it, maybe he can read. you are also VERY bad at this game and very new. that's not the problem though, the problem is you are dumb, AND stubborn, so you will never learn. gg keep being a scrub.

Wow. I can find more if you want me too. I'm not new to this flaming game. If you haven't noticed. If you really want me too, I can do more then just typing in caps. But enough of this. Big C has already decided, there is no point of arguing any further. KK thnx.

 

[Undefined]

Please reply to this otherwise you won't have the last word.

Zjiin gets it I get it, you just can't seem to get that I get it.

if you got it, you would say, "ok you are right, i was wrong"

And you don't beleive me that your posts are all personal attacks?

yes. i have not been so patient with someone like this in a LONG TIME. i can be alot more harsh but i choose not too. you just cant ****ign read / take contexts. thats why you thought crashman actually hated you. that is HILARIOUS. seriously, LOL.

Wow. I can find more if you want me too. I'm not new to this flaming game. If you haven't noticed. If you really want me too, I can do more then just typing in caps. But enough of this. Big C has already decided, there is no point of arguing any further. KK thnx.

i flamed there on purpose, DUH. jesus.

 

[Mars-]

if you got it, you would say, "ok you are right, i was wrong"

yes. i have not been so patient with someone like this in a LONG TIME. i can be alot more harsh but i choose not too. you just cant ****ign read / take contexts. thats why you thought crashman actually hated you. that is HILARIOUS. seriously, LOL.





i flamed there on purpose, DUH. jesus.

Rofl, I don't think crashman hates me. Wanted to point that out. Don't know where you got that.

Good night, I <3 you 5150.

Edit: Also I think of all of your arguements as funny, so please don't tell me that I am that stupid that I don't know when you are doing something because of what I said.

 

[Undefined]

Rofl, I don't think crashman hates me. Wanted to point that out. Don't know where you got that.

ok,

P.S. Crashman if you read this, I asked for your help on aim and you blocked me because I said you weren't the best samus. If you don't want to help me then I don't want your help. I can always talk to somebody like HugS or Wes (I have both of them on my AIM buddy list), and talk to THE BEST, not somebody who cries because they aren't the best. You should have felt good that somebody would even try to get help from you, not get all mad because they said you aren't the best.

you ****ing idiot.

Edit: Also I think of all of your arguements as funny, so please don't tell me that I am that stupid that I don't know when you are doing something because of what I said.

you expect me to take you seriously when you cant even form a ****ign sentence???????/ JESUS CHRIST.

 

[Mars-]

ok,

you ****ing idiot.



you expect me to take you seriously when you cant even form a ****ign sentence???????/ JESUS CHRIST.

Good night. You are taking this thread, no wait, this game way to seriously. Anyway, it's almost 1, good night for serious this time.

 

[Zjiin]

Why are mommy and daddy fighting?

make my tourney then. its prob gonna be june 2 in barrington il. ill post the thread when its 100% official.

Sounds like the best one i've attended in ages, i'll be there.

 

[Overswarm]

Modified Stage List:
Banned Stages: Yoshi's Island, MKI, MKII, Venom, Big Blue, Flatzone, Icicle Mountain, Hyrule Temple, Fourside, Brinstar Depths, Princess Peach's Castle, Jungle Japes, Onett, Green Greens, Kongo Jungle, and flip flopping on corneria
teams are same but with ,mute city and FoD banned

I modified the stage list because of the massive amount of camping on those stages and how a retreating fox can win almost guaranteed there.

haha... BIG C is bad

 

[Brightside6382]

He's just trying to make personal attacks against my Fox. Don't worry BigC as long as I still have FD and DL64 I can still laser the **** out of you

 

[Overswarm]

He's just trying to make personal attacks against my Fox. Don't worry BigC as long as I still have FD and DL64 I can still laser the **** out of you

Not to mention DK64



Alright, I'm going to tell you guys a little story, and then bring you up to date on a little philosophy.

First, the story.

Back at FC6, my main was Falco. I found KoreanDJ and asked him to play, because I had seen and heard great things about him. The first match we play is my Falco vs. his Sheik. I win. Was he sandbagging, did I get lucky (I did get a low % edgeguard)? Dunno, but I won the game. Dreamland 64 was our stage.

He switches to Fox and then 3 stocks me with % to spare on pokemon stadium.

Now these were just random friendlies. If for some reason it had played out this way in a tournament, I am now in the position to counterpick.

EVERYONE can play neutrals. People that say the midwest can't are missing a chromosome, because we play them all the time. In fact, the first match of every set is always a neutral, and the majority of the counterpicks in the MW are STILL neutrals.

I won on a neutral, but I got decimated by his actual main character on a neutral. I definitely don't want to do that again. What do I do?

I pick a stage that I excel at.

This was friendlies, so we continued to play neutrals (I never got him below 2 stock when he was fox, and never beat his sheik for the remaining games), but in a tournament I would have immediately listed off a stage that he might not know how to play as well as I do.

Maybe Mute City, since Falco can jank Fox's recovery with lasers and then spike him?

Maybe Green Greens so I can laser camp and shinespike with Falco?

Maybe Jungle Japes so I can phantasm all over and laser him until he approaches me?

The list goes on and on, but the point is that I would counterpick so that I had the advantage. What Big C and other likeminded people are saying is that we should give up that advantage because it should magically make us better.

It does the opposite. It removes from us one of the advantages we HAVE over the coasts.

Tournaments that ban a ton of stages and that counterpick only neutrals are tournaments that don't know how to play the game. In short, they are just bad kids who wish they were good, so they attempt to minimalize the game to such a degree that they can be good.

You've got to realize that counterpicking DOES work, and camping DOES work, at ALL levels of play.

Why isn't it the end-all of strategies in tournament play? Because the top level players are smart enough to get around it. It's a brick wall that MW routinely throws up, and only the good kids get past it.


The stages aren't broken. I three stocked Trail on Kongo Jungle at SMYM7, and the only people that I either didn't beat, or didn't have a close game against, on my counterpick, were Dope and Husband (green greens failed me).

Trail, on the whole, is better than me. However, he doesn't know how to play these other maps. He should have stayed ice climbers. Kongo Jungle is not a bad ice climbers stage at all, as long as you stay away from the rock.

Chu, on the whole, is better than me, and is another ice climber player. People pick counterpicks like pokemon floats against him all the time. What does he do? He stays ice climbers, laughs, and then 3 stocks them anyway. He didn't whine and complain and then just be all for banning stages that hurt the "let's all rush at each other real fast" style of play that most people play as. He learned, adapted, and got better.

What this tournament is doing is a flawed attempt at a flawed idea.



If the stages are broken beyond repair, ban them.

If the stages give an advantage to the player who counterpicks them, stop whining. They're supposed to.

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

undefined im pretty sure counterpicks are not what keep the mw down in terms of skill... its more the vast expanse of space between all its good players and few major tournies for them to meet at. i was getting counterpicked up the *** at Gauntlet and the only diff. i saw there was the level of the average smasher at such a tournie, im pretty sure most of my sets went to the last game there..... which is something im not used to.

 

[Mars-]

Not to mention DK64



Alright, I'm going to tell you guys a little story, and then bring you up to date on a little philosophy.

First, the story.

Back at FC6, my main was Falco. I found KoreanDJ and asked him to play, because I had seen and heard great things about him. The first match we play is my Falco vs. his Sheik. I win. Was he sandbagging, did I get lucky (I did get a low % edgeguard)? Dunno, but I won the game. Dreamland 64 was our stage.

He switches to Fox and then 3 stocks me with % to spare on pokemon stadium.

Now these were just random friendlies. If for some reason it had played out this way in a tournament, I am now in the position to counterpick.

EVERYONE can play neutrals. People that say the midwest can't are missing a chromosome, because we play them all the time. In fact, the first match of every set is always a neutral, and the majority of the counterpicks in the MW are STILL neutrals.

I won on a neutral, but I got decimated by his actual main character on a neutral. I definitely don't want to do that again. What do I do?

I pick a stage that I excel at.

This was friendlies, so we continued to play neutrals (I never got him below 2 stock when he was fox, and never beat his sheik for the remaining games), but in a tournament I would have immediately listed off a stage that he might not know how to play as well as I do.

Maybe Mute City, since Falco can jank Fox's recovery with lasers and then spike him?

Maybe Green Greens so I can laser camp and shinespike with Falco?

Maybe Jungle Japes so I can phantasm all over and laser him until he approaches me?

The list goes on and on, but the point is that I would counterpick so that I had the advantage. What Big C and other likeminded people are saying is that we should give up that advantage because it should magically make us better.

It does the opposite. It removes from us one of the advantages we HAVE over the coasts.

Tournaments that ban a ton of stages and that counterpick only neutrals are tournaments that don't know how to play the game. In short, they are just bad kids who wish they were good, so they attempt to minimalize the game to such a degree that they can be good.

You've got to realize that counterpicking DOES work, and camping DOES work, at ALL levels of play.

Why isn't it the end-all of strategies in tournament play? Because the top level players are smart enough to get around it. It's a brick wall that MW routinely throws up, and only the good kids get past it.


The stages aren't broken. I three stocked Trail on Kongo Jungle at SMYM7, and the only people that I either didn't beat, or didn't have a close game against, on my counterpick, were Dope and Husband (green greens failed me).

Trail, on the whole, is better than me. However, he doesn't know how to play these other maps. He should have stayed ice climbers. Kongo Jungle is not a bad ice climbers stage at all, as long as you stay away from the rock.

Chu, on the whole, is better than me, and is another ice climber player. People pick counterpicks like pokemon floats against him all the time. What does he do? He stays ice climbers, laughs, and then 3 stocks them anyway. He didn't whine and complain and then just be all for banning stages that hurt the "let's all rush at each other real fast" style of play that most people play as. He learned, adapted, and got better.

What this tournament is doing is a flawed attempt at a flawed idea.



If the stages are broken beyond repair, ban them.

If the stages give an advantage to the player who counterpicks them, stop whining. They're supposed to.

Thank you.

 

[Jazzness]

So ... why can't we have BF & FD as unbannable random/neutrals and everyone's counterpicks on?

It places emphasis upon the first match, but allows counterpicking to be as uneven as can be by assuming everyone wins on their counterpick.

It feels like nobody read my post except Undefined.
... and I still stick to my original statement that Yoshi's Story and Dreamland 64 are already used as frequent counterpicks... and shouldn't be considered neutrals q:

 

[Undefined]

Not to mention DK64



Alright, I'm going to tell you guys a little story, and then bring you up to date on a little philosophy.

First, the story.

Back at FC6, my main was Falco. I found KoreanDJ and asked him to play, because I had seen and heard great things about him. The first match we play is my Falco vs. his Sheik. I win. Was he sandbagging, did I get lucky (I did get a low % edgeguard)? Dunno, but I won the game. Dreamland 64 was our stage.

He switches to Fox and then 3 stocks me with % to spare on pokemon stadium.

he was sandbagging.

Now these were just random friendlies. If for some reason it had played out this way in a tournament, I am now in the position to counterpick.

EVERYONE can play neutrals. People that say the midwest can't are missing a chromosome, because we play them all the time. In fact, the first match of every set is always a neutral, and the majority of the counterpicks in the MW are STILL neutrals.

do you notice how the good players only counterpick on neutrals? i wonder why that is....maybe because they are superior at fighting, and they know the neutrals don't inhibit their superior fighting.

I won on a neutral, but I got decimated by his actual main character on a neutral. I definitely don't want to do that again. What do I do?

I pick a stage that I excel at.

This was friendlies, so we continued to play neutrals (I never got him below 2 stock when he was fox, and never beat his sheik for the remaining games),

more evidence he was sandbagging

but in a tournament I would have immediately listed off a stage that he might not know how to play as well as I do.

Maybe Mute City, since Falco can jank Fox's recovery with lasers and then spike him?

Maybe Green Greens so I can laser camp and shinespike with Falco?

Maybe Jungle Japes so I can phantasm all over and laser him until he approaches me?

here's the thing you don't understand. good players, as you later say in this post aren't affected by this. saying you "know how to play there" is like saying "I can wavedash". there is no MYSTERY about green greens, japes, or corneria, or mute, etc. they are all very simple stages. good players know how to play on those stages, its just that the stages are so stupid that if you dont change your character, you will more than likely lose.

The list goes on and on, but the point is that I would counterpick so that I had the advantage. What Big C and other likeminded people are saying is that we should give up that advantage because it should magically make us better.

It does the opposite. It removes from us one of the advantages we HAVE over the coasts.

here's the thing. that's a myth. we DONT have better counterpicks than any other coast. as trail later says, the ec were counterpicking there as well (the bad players). so we DONT HAVE an advantage there.

Tournaments that ban a ton of stages and that counterpick only neutrals are tournaments that don't know how to play the game. In short, they are just bad kids who wish they were good, so they attempt to minimalize the game to such a degree that they can be good.

heres where i started to rofl. ill try to be very patient in explaining this for the 44th time.

1. camping is not fighting
2. this is a fighting game
3. if you can fight better than you're opponent you will ALWAYs win on a neutral level
4. therefore, if you can fight better you will 2-1 your opponent, at least, EVERY TIME. why do you think the best players in the nation, the ones that can FIGHT the best, go to neutrals every time?
5. "In short, they are just bad kids who wish they were good, so they attempt to minimalize the game to such a degree that they can be good." LOLOLOLOLLO, no yousee, thats what the non-neutral counterpick kids are. they cant fight, so they go to a stage where they can camp / do 1 hit then run away. and saying "bad kids?". ROFLOFLOFFOLFL here's a list of payers who support this

jazzness
pete chen
eddie
cunning
tink
bigc
myself
nickb
bigd
and more that i cant think of off the top of my head

You've got to realize that counterpicking DOES work, and camping DOES work, at ALL levels of play.

ok heres where i lolled again. READ THE NEXT THING YOU TYPED

Why isn't it the end-all of strategies in tournament play? Because the top level players are smart enough to get around it. It's a brick wall that MW routinely throws up, and only the good kids get past it.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. YOU JUST CONTRADICTED YOURSELF...........IN THE NEXT LINE!!!!!!!!!!!!

The stages aren't broken. I three stocked Trail on Kongo Jungle at SMYM7, and the only people that I either didn't beat, or didn't have a close game against, on my counterpick, were Dope and Husband (green greens failed me).

Trail, on the whole, is better than me. However, he doesn't know how to play these other maps. He should have stayed ice climbers. Kongo Jungle is not a bad ice climbers stage at all, as long as you stay away from the rock.

i guarantee you trail knew how to play there. its not a ****ign scooby doo mystery. such stages just favor certain characters too heavily that he couldnt get around it. and no it is not a good ic stage. IT IS NOT AT ALL. all someone has to do is sit on the side w/ peach and dsmash and climbers = done.

next, referencing your matches vs really good players on yoru counterpicks and how they were close is an awful idea, because that implies you got ***** on the neutral stages, aka, where you have to fight / not camp to such extremes. it just shows you are way worse than them.

Chu, on the whole, is better than me, and is another ice climber player. People pick counterpicks like pokemon floats against him all the time. What does he do? He stays ice climbers, laughs, and then 3 stocks them anyway. He didn't whine and complain and then just be all for banning stages that hurt the "let's all rush at each other real fast" style of play that most people play as. He learned, adapted, and got better.

no you see, thats against BAD people. i guarantee you if a player of equal skill took him there he would not be laughing.

and the "let's all rush at each other real fast" style is what wins. the top 7 players ALL use this. its called being aggressive. and if you start to say "well then ill just show them that my camping style works", im just gonna blcok your posts so i cant read them anymore.

If the stages are broken beyond repair, ban them.

If the stages give an advantage to the player who counterpicks them, stop whining. They're supposed to.

if a stage FORCES you to change characters, its broken. gg.

undefined im pretty sure counterpicks are not what keep the mw down in terms of skill... its more the vast expanse of space between all its good players and few major tournies for them to meet at. i was getting counterpicked up the *** at Gauntlet and the only diff. i saw there was the level of the average smasher at such a tournie, im pretty sure most of my sets went to the last game there..... which is something im not used to.

trail, the counterpicks are part of a larger theme. the theme is "dont fight, camp". this is what ultimately keeps us down, along with low tournament amounts.

So ... why can't we have BF & FD as unbannable random/neutrals and everyone's counterpicks on?

It places emphasis upon the first match, but allows counterpicking to be as uneven as can be by assuming everyone wins on their counterpick.

It feels like nobody read my post except Undefined.
... and I still stick to my original statement that Yoshi's Story and Dreamland 64 are already used as frequent counterpicks... and shouldn't be considered neutrals q:

they are used as counterpicks based mainly on preference. and the advantages arent major, like on say green greens or corneria.

for example, on yoshis story, marth can platform tipper, but falco can also use the platforms to help him combo more and can shine ko off the otp.

on dl64, peach can live alot longer, but those platforms also help chars avoid turnips and it also fairly large, so running away lasers is very possible. id have no problem facing a peach on dl64 with my shiek. i would not like facing a peach with my shiek on mute city.


in conclusion, the only people who really want such stupid counterpick stages on are people who can't fight.

 

[AOB]

Nevermind who's right--I can't help wondering if there is an ulterior motive to all this talk, like maybe someone just plain old doesn't like camping?

 

[Mars-]

do you notice how the good players only counterpick on neutrals? i wonder why that is....maybe because they are superior at fighting, and they know the neutrals don't inhibit their superior fighting.

Maybe you should ask them.

here's the thing you don't understand. good players, as you later say in this post aren't affected by this. saying you "know how to play there" is like saying "I can wavedash". there is no MYSTERY about green greens, japes, or corneria, or mute, etc. they are all very simple stages. good players know how to play on those stages, its just that the stages are so stupid that if you dont change your character, you will more than likely lose.

Notice how pros, um, change their characters?

here's the thing. that's a myth. we DONT have better counterpicks than any other coast. as trail later says, the ec were counterpicking there as well (the bad players). so we DONT HAVE an advantage there.

He also said that they (East coast players) did better on their counterpicks as well. Maybe that might mean that you are wrong?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. YOU JUST CONTRADICTED YOURSELF...........IN THE NEXT LINE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Much like you do every post.

i guarantee you trail knew how to play there. its not a ****ign scooby doo mystery. such stages just favor certain characters too heavily that he couldnt get around it. and no it is not a good ic stage. IT IS NOT AT ALL. all someone has to do is sit on the side w/ peach and dsmash and climbers = done.

Okay if trail knows how to play there, and wins, maybe the problem is that you are crying to much and not trying to get better on the stage?

next, referencing your matches vs really good players on yoru counterpicks and how they were close is an awful idea, because that implies you got ***** on the neutral stages, aka, where you have to fight / not camp to such extremes. it just shows you are way worse than them.

No, I'm sorry, that implies that good players can play well on any stage, not that he is bad.

and the "let's all rush at each other real fast" style is what wins. the top 7 players ALL use this. its called being aggressive. and if you start to say "well then ill just show them that my camping style works", im just gonna blcok your posts so i cant read them anymore.

You said yourself on AIM that Ken plays defensive. I believe he is #1 if I'm not mistaked.

if a stage FORCES you to change characters, its broken. gg.

Umm, if you can change your character to take away some of their advantage, then do it?

in conclusion, the only people who really want such stupid counterpick stages on are people who can't fight.

In conclusion, the only people who want counterpicks off are people who constantly get beat by people who use counterpicks, and are too lazy to learn how to use the stages. If they are sooo easy to use, then what is the problem?

 

[Undefined]

Nevermind who's right--I can't help wondering if there is an ulterior motive to all this talk, like maybe someone just plain old doesn't like camping?

like ive said a thousand ****ing times.

do good players camp? no.
does midwest camp? yes.
is midwest good? no.

for us people who still play the game aob, mw's skill is an important thing.

oh, and why dont i like cmaping? because it is hte stupidest thing, besides going low tier, that you can do to your smash career because you never learn to fight, and thus fail at higher levels of play.

Maybe you should ask them.

i dont need to ****ing ask them.

Notice how pros, um, change their characters?

ROFL. thats why drephen changes his character against trails ic.

no, they dont.

He also said that they (East coast players) did better on their counterpicks as well. Maybe that might mean that you are wrong?

the bad players did. not the good ones.

Much like you do every post.

i find this comment lol worthy, coming from a scrub *** samus that didnt know samus couldnt play aggressively.

Okay if trail knows how to play there, and wins, maybe the problem is that you are crying to much and not trying to get better on the stage?

DID YOU EVEN READ THE POST. HE LOOOOOOSSTTTTTTT THERE, EVEN THOUGH HE KNEW HOW TO PLAY THERE.

No, I'm sorry, that implies that good players can play well on any stage, not that he is bad.

if you lose on neutrals, you are bad at fighting. no ifs ands or buts about it.

You said yourself on AIM that Ken plays defensive. I believe he is #1 if I'm not mistaked.

i have NEVER SAID THAT IN MY ****IGN LIFE. i have the whole aim convo saved and i never said that.

Umm, if you can change your character, then do it?

if you are forced to change your character, then that means the stage is so imbalanced that it warrants a ban.

In conclusion, the only people who want counterpicks off are people who constantly get beat by people who use counterpicks, and are too lazy to learn how to use the stages. If they are sooo easy to use, then what is the problem?

i dont care if i get beat on ****ign mute city etc. an example:

me vs sliq. egl chicago:

1st match i 2 stock his jiggs on bf
he takes me to mute, 3 stocks me
i go yoshis story, he goes falco. i win.

his win on mute city didn't matter.

mars you really shouldn't post if you are so new that you have to come to ME for ****ing samus character matchup advice, when i dont even play the ****ing character.

 

[Mars-]

like ive said a thousand ****ing times.

do good players camp? no.
does midwest camp? yes.
is midwest good? no.

for us people who still play the game aob, mw's skill is an important thing.

oh, and why dont i like cmaping? because it is hte stupidest thing, besides going low tier, that you can do to your smash career because you never learn to fight, and thus fail at higher levels of play.

i dont need to ****ing ask them.




ROFL. thats why drephen changes his character against trails ic.

no, they dont.





the bad players did. not the good ones.




i find this comment lol worthy, coming from a scrub *** samus that didnt know samus couldnt play aggressively.



DID YOU EVEN READ THE POST. HE LOOOOOOSSTTTTTTT THERE, EVEN THOUGH HE KNEW HOW TO PLAY THERE.




if you lose on neutrals, you are bad at fighting. no ifs ands or buts about it.




i have NEVER SAID THAT IN MY ****IGN LIFE. i have the whole aim convo saved and i never said that.

Umm, if you can change your character, then do it?

if you are forced to change your character, then that means the stage is so imbalanced that it warrants a ban.




i dont care if i get beat on ****ign mute city etc. an example:

me vs sliq. egl chicago:

1st match i 2 stock his jiggs on bf
he takes me to mute, 3 stocks me
i go yoshis story, he goes falco. i win.

his win on mute city didn't matter.

mars you really shouldn't post if you are so new that you have to come to ME for ****ing samus character matchup advice, when i dont even play the ****ing character.

Rofl, you are so fu... Nevermind. You obviously do care that you lose concidering you were making such a big deal about SMYM7. As for coming to you for samus help, rofl. I didn't pay attention to anything you said. It was all worthless ****. Your telling me that because fox is fast, he is aggressive and because samus is slow, she isn't. That doesn't mean ****.

Anyway, you shouldn't be talking any ****. You almost lost to me, and then you make the excuse that you were sandbagging, I'm pretty sure you weren't, because you aren't good enough to know how to sandbag.

 

[Undefined]

ok after that unintelligent post im officially blocking you. you not only didnt get sarcasm, but you denied things that EVEN HUGS AGREED WITH. not only that, but you are so embarrased of your unintelligence you go back and erase yoru posts. you are done, and your opinion is so worthless its ridiculous.

 

[Mars-]

ok after that unintelligent post im officially blocking you. you not only didnt get sarcasm, but you denied things that EVEN HUGS AGREED WITH. not only that, but you are so embarrased of your unintelligence you go back and erase yoru posts. you are done, and your opinion is so worthless its ridiculous.

Rofl, apparently you don't understand this, but e-sarcasm doesn't work that well. And sarcasm coming from you is even worse. Anything you say, that I tell you is wrong, you say you were being sarcastic about it. Maybe you should just say your whole argument is sarcasm and that you really want counterpicks. HugS said, Wes is offensive. Then you try saying that he also said sometimes overly offensive, so therefore, any time he is being offensive, he isn't playing right. Please do block me. Maybe then you won't be making stupid points in an argument.

 

[_marth1_]

this thread is so dumb

 

[saZmus]

So... I actually LIKE this game. Who's with me? >.>

 

[Overswarm]

he was sandbagging.

Maybe, but if he was he was consistently sandbagging for the dozen or so friendlies we played, because none of the Falco vs. Sheik matches were one sided. It was always down to the last stock.

do you notice how the good players only counterpick on neutrals? i wonder why that is....maybe because they are superior at fighting, and they know the neutrals don't inhibit their superior fighting.

...They don't. Watch VoD, it's free. Hell, go back a couple years. Do you know why Onett is banned? Ken with his fox. Peach players pick Mute city all the time. Jiggs players pick mute city all the time. Fox players used to pick Onett, but now pick pokemon stadium and corneria often.

Or hell, watch Forward play on Jungle Japes at SMYM7. Do you think he just learned that map off the top of his head?

more evidence he was sandbagging

It also might be helpful to note I have no space animals to play, so Falco vs. Fox was a difficult matchup for me. And it was KoreanDJ. He beat PC's Falco. With Fox.

here's the thing you don't understand. good players, as you later say in this post aren't affected by this. saying you "know how to play there" is like saying "I can wavedash". there is no MYSTERY about green greens, japes, or corneria, or mute, etc. they are all very simple stages. good players know how to play on those stages, its just that the stages are so stupid that if you dont change your character, you will more than likely lose.

You're kidding, right?

I could school you on every counterpick in the world that you frown upon because there are SO many nuances to every map that it is impossible to know how they work without study and repeated play.

How long does Rainbow Cruise last before a revolution is complete?
How long does it take for apples to come on Green Greens?
The blocks that fall on Green Greens are a variable. What makes them speed up? What makes them slow down?
What is the ratio of bombs to blocks on Green Greens? Is there one?
What is the timing of the barrel rotation on Kongo Falls? On DK64?
What about the Klap Traps in Kongo Falls and Jungle Japes?
What characters can b-throw spike on Jungle Japes against the platforms? F-throw spike?
What characters can up+b to a ledge on Jungle Japes from the water? From which area?
Where can Falco shinespike on these stages?
What trajectory do you need to knock someone out if they are underneath the corneria fin?
Where on the ship do they need to be for the vertical knockout to be closer than horizontal?
Where do they need to be for horizontal to be closer than vertical?
What are the hot spots for the Arwing blaster zones?
What is the timing for the Arwings on Corneria?
What is the timing for the wind on Green Greens? What determines the direction it blows?
How long can you stay in a barrel before it shoots you?
How long does a klap trap stay in a barrel before it is shot?

That's just the START of random factoids about the maps that you need to know before truly understanding the matchup. That's not even counting the brick walls that I can throw up with various characters on each map.

Educate yourself. What you just said is like someone saying "all Nascar cars are the same".

here's the thing. that's a myth. we DONT have better counterpicks than any other coast. as trail later says, the ec were counterpicking there as well (the bad players). so we DONT HAVE an advantage there.

Yeah, we do.

We have a much more advanced metagame on those maps. Watch the best MW players pick their maps, and then watch the EC or WC play on them. Some players do well on different maps that aren't neutral (like Husband with Green Greens), but for the most part they are obviously fish out of water.

heres where i started to rofl. ill try to be very patient in explaining this for the 44th time.

1. camping is not fighting

And? Who said it was? Camping helps you win. I don't care if it is defined as fighting.

2. this is a fighting game

It is a videogame, sir.

3. if you can fight better than you're opponent you will ALWAYs win on a neutral level

On a neutral level. So considering that there will ALWAYS be someone better than you, shouldn't you learn a non-neutral level that can give you that slight edge?

4. therefore, if you can fight better you will 2-1 your opponent, at least, EVERY TIME. why do you think the best players in the nation, the ones that can FIGHT the best, go to neutrals every time?

They don't. However, they are neutrals, which means it is unlikely that they will get janked. Keep in mind which "neutrals" they pick though. They are all picked for a reason.

Also, if you can counterpick well, you will 2-1 your opponent virtually every time as well. There weren't many people that I didn't take at least one game from at the tournaments I go to, and that is saying something.

5. "In short, they are just bad kids who wish they were good, so they attempt to minimalize the game to such a degree that they can be good." LOLOLOLOLLO, no yousee, thats what the non-neutral counterpick kids are. they cant fight, so they go to a stage where they can camp / do 1 hit then run away. and saying "bad kids?". ROFLOFLOFFOLFL here's a list of payers who support this

Oh, a list, this'll be fun.

jazzness
pete chen
eddie
cunning
tink
bigc
myself
nickb
bigd
and more that i cant think of off the top of my head

How many of those players REALLY don't care?

If I can beat them (and I have beaten several) on a "gay" counterpick, why shouldn't I?

ok heres where i lolled again. READ THE NEXT THING YOU TYPED


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. YOU JUST CONTRADICTED YOURSELF...........IN THE NEXT LINE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Howso?

You've got to realize that counterpicking DOES work, and camping DOES work, at ALL levels of play.

Why isn't it the end-all of strategies in tournament play? Because the top level players are smart enough to get around it. It's a brick wall that MW routinely throws up, and only the good kids get past it.

I said it worked, but it wasn't the end-all of strategies in tournament play. I fail to see how that is a contradiction. I didn't say counterpick was an instant win, I said it does work. As in give you an advantage. As in help you get that one crucial win.

Top players are often counterpicked, and yes, Chu would laugh. I watched him do it at FC6, and again at MLG NY. He's good en ough to where he just realizes when and what to do.

i guarantee you trail knew how to play there. its not a ****ign scooby doo mystery. such stages just favor certain characters too heavily that he couldnt get around it. and no it is not a good ic stage. IT IS NOT AT ALL. all someone has to do is sit on the side w/ peach and dsmash and climbers = done.

I'd bet you $100 I know more about playing Ice Climbers on Kongo Jungle than Trail does. I picked Kongo Jungle because I knew Trail would go Marth, and I have handled his Marth in the past with my Fox in crew battles. His marth is very shine friendly because he rushes in a lot and uses his jump too early.

If he had known ice climber strategies on Kongo Jungle (such as using the ice block off the ramps or u-throw to b-air combos off the platforms) he more than likely would have stayed the ice climbers.

next, referencing your matches vs really good players on yoru counterpicks and how they were close is an awful idea, because that implies you got ***** on the neutral stages, aka, where you have to fight / not camp to such extremes. it just shows you are way worse than them.

Who said they were close?

On all my counterpicks I did very well. I beat Iggy, I 3 stocked Trails Marth (I have a picture near the end of the match if you want), I beat Juntah's sheik on green greens, and a plethora of other people lost that one game to me on various neutral stages.

My neutral stages weren't that bad either. I almost beat Trail in an ice climber ditto, I had a close game with Husband on Fountain of Dreams, I beat Iggy on our neutral.... Husband ***** me on my counterpick, not the neutral, and Dope ***** me on both (he always does...).

I'm not "way worse" than them. I'd be willing to bet that I'm not as good as them, but I'm closing in on their skill level, and if a few games had been slightly different (that ONE hit I missed) I would have done much, much better.

no you see, thats against BAD people. i guarantee you if a player of equal skill took him there he would not be laughing.

Chu doesn't care. That's why he doesn't ban it. He's good at those stages. He knows the trixies tha they pull, and knows how to get around it.

and the "let's all rush at each other real fast" style is what wins. the top 7 players ALL use this. its called being aggressive. and if you start to say "well then ill just show them that my camping style works", im just gonna blcok your posts so i cant read them anymore.

It is what wins for some players. Not all.

if a stage FORCES you to change characters, its broken. gg.

What stages do that, dare I ask? Ones that aren't banned already, of course. (Not counting this goofy list)

trail, the counterpicks are part of a larger theme. the theme is "dont fight, camp". this is what ultimately keeps us down, along with low tournament amounts.

Have you even watched the MW play on counterpicks? It's "run and camp until you have an advantage". Seems smarter than "rush in and hope for the best".

they are used as counterpicks based mainly on preference. and the advantages arent major, like on say green greens or corneria.

Those both have HUGE advantages for certain characters.

for example, on yoshis story, marth can platform tipper, but falco can also use the platforms to help him combo more and can shine ko off the otp.

on dl64, peach can live alot longer, but those platforms also help chars avoid turnips and it also fairly large, so running away lasers is very possible. id have no problem facing a peach on dl64 with my shiek. i would not like facing a peach with my shiek on mute city.


in conclusion, the only people who really want such stupid counterpick stages on are people who can't fight.

Are you trying to tell us how to play, and at the same time telling us DL64 is a stage peach uses as a counterpick?



Andy, I believe you are right. Seems this guy is just bitter because he's too much of a bad kid to play the game the way others do

You're one step away from saying "but items show skill too", sir.

 

[mathos]

OS you need to shut up sometimes

:-)

 

[Overswarm]

OS you need to shut up sometimes

:-)

sometimes


but a scary trend is occuring in the melee community at the moment, where people think of banning anything that they don't like or that even slightly conflicts with what melee was, or "should be" in their eyes.

Right before Brawl, too. That's scary. Imagine what this game would be like if people had decided sheik was broken from the getgo and banned her? Or Fox?

Bad kids are banning stages that they don't like for the sole reason that they don't like them and don't like to think. It is sadness.

 

[Hoefler]

sometimes

could you please turn off the john factory? it's polluting my forums.

thanks :3

 

[that 1 guy]

I have to disagree with the statement that learning a stage is easy. Otherwise squared wouldn't always win on poke floats. Now fox does have a large advantage on that stage so maybe the stage is broken, but that's not my point. The thing is he beats other amazing foxes on that stage all of the time. If stages were so easy to learn how come he never loses on that stage? You have to play on a stage more than a couple of times to actually know it. It takes a lot of practice and a lot of experimenting, and even then there is a possibility of learning something new.

Also making a list of respected smashers that agree with you is pretty pointless in my opinion since someone could probably make a list of respected smashers on the opposing side.

and please keep the flaming to a minimal

 

[Black Hayate]

i hope this is not in 21, i can't make it if that's the date @_@

 

[Tapion013]

I just feel the need to put a word in...

Undefined/dr. Steve Brule/magnum opus/cherokee warrior/5150: Don't worry about Mars and Overswarm. You've wasted too much time as it is not getting your point across to these people. Whether or not you hate camping or counterpicking is completely irrelevant to what you are trying to do for the midwest. I thank you heavily, and maybe some day they will actually understand it.

Mars: You keep saying you get it... but you don't, and until you realize you don't, you never will. Unfortunate isn't it? 5150 cares about how he does in tournaments, but he's not saying anything out of selfish ambition. Midwest won one round at FC6, and we got like 20 stocked by east coast, and just barely lost to south + chu (wtf? at losing to south + chu, not chu being there, which is also wtf). Only ones we beat were europe... yay?

The point being is that he's not worried about himself, he wants to get the entire midwest, THE ENTIRE MIDWEST GOING CAPS FTW LOL DOES IT WORK CAN YOU READ IT CUZ THAT'S WHAT YOU DO IS PUT THINGS IN CAPS I'LL PROBABLY ERASE THIS LATER SO YOU CAN'T QUOTE IT EVEN THOUGH IT ALREADY WILL BE DAMMIT I LOSE! He wants us to get better at fighting. We cannot do that if we rely on camping stages for one win of a set. you can have the last word...

OS: I'm gonna quote mathos here except get rid of a word

OS you need to shut up

You, just like Mars, aren't getting it. If you're happy with only getting to the point where you can only 1-2 good players, and get 0-2'd by pros, then fine. Stick to your counterpicking camping ways and good luck to you. If you want to actually be considered a top midwest player though, you may want to actually think about learning what to do in close quarters, because you will not get any better if you continue to use camping as your main strategy. I've said all I've wanted to you. You can also have the last word...

 

[Overswarm]

I just feel the need to put a word in...

Undefined/dr. Steve Brule/magnum opus/cherokee warrior/5150: Don't worry about Mars and Overswarm. You've wasted too much time as it is not getting your point across to these people. Whether or not you hate camping or counterpicking is completely irrelevant to what you are trying to do for the midwest. I thank you heavily, and maybe some day they will actually understand it.

Mars: You keep saying you get it... but you don't, and until you realize you don't, you never will. Unfortunate isn't it? 5150 cares about how he does in tournaments, but he's not saying anything out of selfish ambition. Midwest won one round at FC6, and we got like 20 stocked by east coast, and just barely lost to south + chu (wtf? at losing to south + chu, not chu being there, which is also wtf). Only ones we beat were europe... yay?

The point being is that he's not worried about himself, he wants to get the entire midwest, THE ENTIRE MIDWEST GOING CAPS FTW LOL DOES IT WORK CAN YOU READ IT CUZ THAT'S WHAT YOU DO IS PUT THINGS IN CAPS I'LL PROBABLY ERASE THIS LATER SO YOU CAN'T QUOTE IT EVEN THOUGH IT ALREADY WILL BE DAMMIT I LOSE! He wants us to get better at fighting. We cannot do that if we rely on camping stages for one win of a set. you can have the last word...

OS: I'm gonna quote mathos here except get rid of a word



You, just like Mars, aren't getting it. If you're happy with only getting to the point where you can only 1-2 good players, and get 0-2'd by pros, then fine. Stick to your counterpicking camping ways and good luck to you. If you want to actually be considered a top midwest player though, you may want to actually think about learning what to do in close quarters, because you will not get any better if you continue to use camping as your main strategy. I've said all I've wanted to you. You can also have the last word...

I very much "get it". The opposing side just has their mind set on a logical fallacy.

Opposing side: We need to get better!

Overswarm: I agree sir

Opposing side: We need more tournaments!

OS: Agreed!

Opposing side: Let's ban a bunch of stages!

OS: Wait, what? Why?

Opposing side: Because it will make us better!

OS: How does limiting our options make us better?

Opposing side: Because then everyone will play neutrals, and that OBVIOUSLY is what it takes to make you good. It isn't that the coasts have a larger population of smashers, more frequent tournaments, a much more skilled population, and have a better mindset about the game. That isn't that at all. Sure, the coasts might say "if it works, do it", but us MW say "if it works, but isn't what other people do, we better stop!"

OS: Anyone that is good at counterpicking that truly knows the stage and character matchups for the stage has an innate advantage. That will inevitably give them that one game in the set. I know, because I have done it against many, many people that would normally 2-0 me.

Opposing side: That's exactly why you should stop!

OS: But that means I'll just get 2-0'd. Having good counterpicks doesn't mean that I don't play neutrals. I know how to play on neutrals just fine.

Opposing side: but it makes you worse!


And round and round we go.


If you talk to anyone even halfway decent out of the midwest, and ask them what they think about the midwest camping style, they ALL hate it. Why do they hate it? Because it works. It is effective, and it is unique.

What YOU are suggesting, is to give up everything unique about the midwest and emulate those that consistently beat us on the whole.

I say the only thing we should emulate is their frequency of tournaments, their consistent teams, and their effort to get other good players to come visit them.


If someone can tell me one reason why taking out an option that gives you one game out of three, meaning you only have to win one neutral, is a good idea, I'd have stopped talking. But everyone seems to think "well OBVIOUSLY the Midwest would be a million times better if we played two or three neutrals in a set instead of one or two. That must be the problem."


Stop looking for an easy way out. You want to win? Practice. Practice everything that works. It doesn't matter if it is new, old, or weird. If it works, do it.

You want the midwest to get better? Hold more tournaments. The only people that have made virtually any effort on a grand scale are the Kishes, along with their respected tournament hosters. Holding more tournaments would be better. We've got several states full of smashers, why is there only one, maybe two, tournaments a month that are within driving distance for the majority?

EC, WC, The South, they all beat the Midwest because they are better than the midwest. They pick the stages they are comfortable with, not because the other stages are "bad" (I find it slightly odd that on one hand you are saying that counterpicking makes us worse, but at the same time say that stages that give you an advantage is bad), but because they are just comfortable with a few.

If you want to get better just play the game, stop goofing off and hoping to find an easy way out.

Hell, you don't even have an example to go off of. Look at the other coasts, since that is what this is all about.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=94747
Stages banned? Reasonable.
Confirmation list for the 21rst? Over 70.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=51422
Ken himself hosting So Cal biweeklies to train the socal players. We have a MW circuit thanks to the kishes, and it is a start, buti f you want to get better let's try and get as many bi-weeklies in as many places as we can so that we stay fresh, and learn more than once a month.


Every coast gets it. Play more, win more. Play more, learn more.

There isn't a single twisted training regimen that is going to be a miracle cure. Just play more, that's all there is to it.

 

[Tapion013]

If someone can tell me one reason why taking out an option that gives you one game out of three, meaning you only have to win one neutral, is a good idea, I'd have stopped talking. But everyone seems to think "well OBVIOUSLY the Midwest would be a million times better if we played two or three neutrals in a set instead of one or two. That must be the problem."

This is the only thing I'm gonna respond to. Here's MY reason for it.

First off, going 2-1 against someone does not matter except maybe for round robins. You still won't get anywhere in a bracket if you go 2-1.

Second, if you are much better at the neutral stages. Look what happens. You win the first match. Second pick is a neutral stage, you still have a shot! If you lose, you have a guaranteed third win. CONGRATULATIONS YOU WON THE SET BECAUSE YOU WON THE FIRST MATCH! That's what we're trying to do! You win the first match, you're solid and still hard to beat on the 6 "neutral" stages, and you are going to be one HELL of a threat.

That is all...

 

[kirkq]

i have a hot date on the 21st lol

even though i may not be going anyway i'd just like to throw this out there

<I>but a scary trend is occuring in the melee community at the moment, where people think of banning anything that they don't like or that even slightly conflicts with what melee was, or "should be" in their eyes.</I>

i really do believe this statement has some merit

kinda pisses me off when you guys ban all my counterpicks because you don't like them

i only get 1 counterpick anyway, so you should end up beating me 2-1 if we're both too good on our counterpicks if you're actually better than me

on the subject of camping - i consider that my falco plays via positioning, not camping

theres a difference between hiding in the lower right hand corner of onett where 1 slip kills you and waiting under the fin of corneria where you feel you have the advantage

why should i get off the top platform in battlefield when peach can down smash the hell out of me, and i know its lame, but so is peach's down smash vs space animals.....same thing vs ice climbers, stay the hell off the ground

i think counterpicking takes strategy and gives a chance to those who utilize it to the maximum

and now we're down to 4 counterpicks for this tourney, and i play really well on one of them but stage bans are still on

eventually its gonna be like the japanese stage list, and we'll just be watching character matchups on dream land and fd

i really dont think that watching the same two stages over and over is that exciting

in regards to crew battles, i do think it should all be played on neutral stages so that 1 player doesnt get screwed by the next persons counter, so you obviously dont need someone who counters well, but in regards to a set, if you cant handle the counter then just win the first match

k, well maybe overswarm is an *** when it comes to arguing, but i do agree with some points he makes that you guys are shooting down, im welcome to input on my statements

i suck at this game

 

[Overswarm]

This is the only thing I'm gonna respond to. Here's MY reason for it.

First off, going 2-1 against someone does not matter except maybe for round robins. You still won't get anywhere in a bracket if you go 2-1.

Second, if you are much better at the neutral stages. Look what happens. You win the first match. Second pick is a neutral stage, you still have a shot! If you lose, you have a guaranteed third win. CONGRATULATIONS YOU WON THE SET BECAUSE YOU WON THE FIRST MATCH! That's what we're trying to do! You win the first match, you're solid and still hard to beat on the 6 "neutral" stages, and you are going to be one HELL of a threat.

That is all...

Thanks for picking out one thing and attempting to respond to it. That doesn't leave a length of things left to discuss at all.


Going 2-1 against someone DOES matter. If you go 2-1 consistently, at worst, that means you have two chances to win one game, and that one game is all that matters. Since, as you have said, the good players only counterpick neutral stages, does it really matter if it is the first match?

I don't disagree with your logic that getting good at neutral stages is a good idea. But.... why does that suddenly mean banning stages you don't like? I don't get the connection. You're just spouting johns. Change the rules, you will still lose. Make more tournaments if you want to get better.

 

[Undefined]

im done posting in here. people have dyslexia / can't read / don't understand basic tournament mechanics / don't understand basics of the game / so i'll just leave the rest to tapion if he wants. if he doesn't who cares cuz no matter what we type some people won't change their 8-year old views on the subject.

but the last thing i have to say is...

if our region has 1 unique thing about us (camping/counterpicking), but is also maybe the worst region in terms of smash, then i think it's safe to say that our 1 unique thing is probably a shot in the leg rather than a bullet in our gun. IT'S LOGIC HOLMES, USE IT.

I don't disagree with your logic that getting good at neutral stages is a good idea. But.... why does that suddenly mean banning stages you don't like? I don't get the connection. You're just spouting johns. Change the rules, you will still lose. Make more tournaments if you want to get better.

ok, heres a perfect analogy:

in kiddie basketball, not many kids have the right technique. in fact most dont and trust me their technique is AWFUL. problem is, if you teach them the PROPER form, they usually do worse than if they were to use their bad forms (a 2-1 instead of a 2-0), because the proper form takes alot of upper-body strength they dont have (we don't know how to FIGHT, only camp). but they are STILL taught it because in the LONG run learning that form will help them make more baskets.

so far, in teh midwest, our kiddie smashers haven't been transitioning to the proper form, so what we are doing is FORCING them to transition to the proper form by banning the WRONG form.

ok im done.

 

[Overswarm]

=
if our region has 1 unique thing about us (camping/counterpicking), but is also maybe the worst region in terms of smash, then i think it's safe to say that our 1 unique thing is probably a shot in the leg rather than a bullet in our gun. IT'S LOGIC HOLMES, USE IT.

That doesn't even make any sense.