Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[-ACE-]

Also, I think you'd have to ASDI down and slightly forward (towards fox) but you'd have to have the input already registered by the time the the side-b is ready to hit. Kinda goes back to the whole buffering thing.

Word, you can also SDI to cover all spacing basically.

It would be interesting if someone was proficient at cc'ing and SDI'ing to get difficult grabs. You would just have to hold crouch until hitlag begins, and rotate to either perfect wd angle, and boom, more frame advantage in some situations for an easy grab. You would get cc effect, SDI input, and ASDI on the last frame of hitlag.

Rofl I tried to Swype hitlag and my phone put hotgirls.

 

[spider_sense]

Lol! Yo I'd be down to SDI ASDI CC some fine ass girls too. Hmu my dude.

That sounds like a tech you'd have to be immaculate with, but it could be a very useful option-select.

 

[-ACE-]

Lol! Yo I'd be down to SDI ASDI CC some fine *** girls too. Hmu my dude.

That sounds like a tech you'd have to be immaculate with, but it could be a very useful option-select.

HMU tonight. We're going to the bar

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

Why didn't y'all boys go to TGL?

 

[-ACE-]

Why didn't y'all boys go to TGL?

I never know when they are and I'm at work atm

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

get on fb and join sfl melee, shamunt is always spamming the Tgl event pages on there, he even post in the CFL, SWFL groups about TGL CONSTANTLY

 

[-ACE-]

get on fb and join sfl melee, shamunt is always spamming the Tgl event pages on there, he even post in the CFL, SWFL groups about TGL CONSTANTLY

F**k fb I've been off fb for 3 years. Had 1,100 friends, they probly thought i blocked them LOL

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

fb sucks, but it's good for finding melee scenes

 

[tauKhan]

That sounds like a tech you'd have to be immaculate with, but it could be a very useful option-select.

Don't know, sounds totally doable imo.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

F**k fb I've been off fb for 3 years. Had 1,100 friends, they probly thought i blocked them LOL

Consider making a fb just for smash. Like just make your name ace or some ****. I'm considering doing it because smash notifications are starting to annoy me.

 

[-ACE-]

Took a game off porkchops, yeeeyuh. no stream, lmao.

 

[-ACE-]

https://youtu.be/2amdqndiEq0

Eikelmann vs Eddie ditto

Lol

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Man we love Eddie in Chicago lol. Keep in mind, this set was right after Eddie beat trail, continuing his legacy of 10 YEARS being undefeated vs trail. For those of you who don't know, trail is super good, objectively better than Eddie, but he still couldn't beat him ten years later.

So much ganon presence at this tournament and lots of alcohol involved. Also lol at the commentators inciting the Eddie vs Tipman rivalry when it doesn't really exist as far as I know. For the record I still love me some Tommy Tipman.

Edit: played Eddie in tournament for the first time last Friday. 2-0 my favor. I think the newer, faster style of ganon played to my advantage. Really fun set, unfortunately not recorded (they probably wanted to stream hindawg vs orly for the 1,000th time or something). It's awesome to peek inside the head of a former top player and see where the metagame was at back then.

 

[-ACE-]

Lol Trail used to come here and talk that **** about Ganon dittos all the time. I would ACE his ass with ease.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Speaking of chi ganons, I might live in Chicago this summer. PseudoTurtle

 

[-ACE-]

Speaking of chi ganons, I might live in Chicago this summer. PseudoTurtle

Joe will get you good at the ditto (he was no pushover against me/tommy/spider_sense when he came to SFL). Especially if you can play Eddie and Trail for backup (different playstyles, heavy on spacing). There's a lot to the ditto but obviously spacing rules supreme. Efficiency is a close second but you have to have tricks also. n0ne's efficiency is actually garbage compared to Kage/Linguini and even myself when my hands do what my brain tells them to do. But n0ne is easily one of the best in the world at the matchup because of his tricks and his spacing. If he changed some of his decision making he would be incredibly hard to beat. Kage does the simple **** and doesn't make mistakes (not to say he lacks tricks), but he can also play a bit too safe at times and ocassionally be out pressured by someone like n0ne/spider_sense. On the same token, Kage can outspace pressure heavy Ganons to a victory easily because every exchange means THE WORLD. You will usually lose a stock on your first mistake unless you can read your mistake in advance and DI right according to percent and relative ledge/platform location. Tipman has the most intriguing and unique playstyle of all. He will force you think and suck you into playing his game. He'll go against the grain like n0ne does, but in different ways. NO ONE has Tipman's number. He can be outplayed and lose just like anyone else but it's not because you have an incredible read on his decision making, you have to be ready for anything. Spider_sense is almost like the best of both world's but doesn't always play perfect (like anyone else lol). He has tricks, spacing, efficiency, the whole shebang. Linguini will frustrate you with his efficiency and basic tech consistency when he's on, making you lose and you dont fully understand how you lost your stocks without making any major mistakes. I think Eikelmann is right up at the top too, but just needing more efficiency and patience at times, especially with edgeuards. I feel like he sometimes forgets how basic Ganon's options are and gets carried away with his speed (similar to n0ne). Renth is really good too. To this day his wavelands and technical prowess with occasional appropriate patience are impressive. Bizz lacks some basics but will kill you in the most demoralizing ways lmao. Very smart and stylish/techy player in general, and he can expose your flaws in neutral if you fall into his traps. Great, appropriate patience. You want to be the one with frame advantage, and pick the safest options possible when you lose it, so you don't get out pressured. You have to keep your head at all times. If you do, 2 stocks isnt always a safe lead. I had a lot of fun learning the ins and outs of this extremely volatile matchup and love playing other Ganons. I bet you will too. It's so intriguing watching different styles collide. Any Ganon is beatable.

Edit: RockCrock has a very unique but spacing heavy style too. I've always liked it.

 

[-ACE-]

So you guys know about jab canceling, where you hold down and away, and you're crouching, but when you hit A, you instantly stand and jab.

Now I'm thinking from crouch, holding down and away, upon hitlag if you quickly rotate to straight away and back to down and away and hit A, so you will SDI backwards and instant cc jab. Im wondering if this could work against certain aerials like marth or falcon nair, among others. Not sure

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Yeah I basically model my style after n0ne's tricks (this is what I meant when I originally said I thought his movement was the best. I guess movement is more about tricks + optimization + decision making) but with the decision making and efficiency of kage and linguini. And I have my own tricks I'm working on that other Ganons don't use.

And yeah, from my experience playing kage, your analysis is spot on. I learned a lot about pressuring and taking advantage of small things from him.

So you guys know about jab canceling, where you hold down and away, and you're crouching, but when you hit A, you instantly stand and jab.

Now I'm thinking from crouch, holding down and away, upon hitlag if you quickly rotate to straight away and back to down and away and hit A, so you will SDI backwards and instant cc jab. Im wondering if this could work against certain aerials like marth or falcon nair, among others. Not sure

I do this sometimes without really thinking about it. I'm trying to make it more thoughtful. I think of it as "rotational DI". Pretty sure it works against a imperfect spaced Marth high fair and first hit falcon Nair. I've also done it against Sheik before, that's originally how I figured out how to do that.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

I played a lot of Ganon dittos with $mike yesterday. Said he wants to get his Ganon to be better and he enjoyed all the dittos that we played. His Ganon certainly is pretty solid, though it is incredibly aggressive. I think next time we Ganon ditto he will stream it.

 

[Divinokage]

Ya I still feel like most Ganons are still trying to play him 20xx style like the fastest possible Ganon ever but there is more strength in mixing up your options. Sometimes you do need a shorter wavedash to get the perfect spacing, sometimes you dont need to do it at all then make someone over-extend on you because they thought you would waveland. Though when your opponent is on a disadvantageous part of the map recovering for example I think that's where speed is very important because if you are able to moonwalk into reverse upair to go really far out there, those things are worth learning. It was always about using every tech at the right time for me.

There are many techs right now that we know but I feel like the thoughts your opponent might have needs to be talked about a lot more. Ganon is about conditioning your opponent to do what you want because without that he can't keep up the neutral at the fastest speed anyway. The art of putting fear in the opponent's hearts. lol

 

[-ACE-]

I played a lot of Ganon dittos with $mike yesterday. Said he wants to get his Ganon to be better and he enjoyed all the dittos that we played. His Ganon certainly is pretty solid, though it is incredibly aggressive. I think next time we Ganon ditto he will stream it.

Not surprised, he loves going in with falcon lol

 

[-ACE-]

Ganon vs Samus SFL Action!

https://youtu.be/PHymluzZIVk

https://youtu.be/kQetlXRxcxM

I should have watched these before fighting wes jr. I kinda got bopped game 1 lol. Haven't played a good samus in over a year.

 

[-ACE-]

Lol linguini and i made it to grands in teams going mostly double Ganon. then we barely lost the first set of grands and said **** it lol. Neither of us were sober and it wasn't for money. He 2-0'd me in bracket too, dead even dittos but i SD'd once both matches lool. GG's.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Ya I still feel like most Ganons are still trying to play him 20xx style like the fastest possible Ganon ever but there is more strength in mixing up your options.

Why can't you do both? I feel like the two aren't mutually exclusive.

I get your point, though. People value the wrong things with the 20xx style and don't focus on the more important stuff.

 

[-ACE-]

Why can't you do both? I feel like the two aren't mutually exclusive.

I get your point, though. People value the wrong things with the 20xx style and don't focus on the more important stuff.

Not to mention, I really feel like you could screw up someone's read on you if you alternated between styles. People do get carried away with speed occasionally (It would be more controlled), but having a large bag of tricks is never bad. You could go from 20GT Ganon to calculated spacing, and back to speed again. Imagine if you could theoretically play like Kage in certain situations and like n0ne in others... they wouldn't even have a read on your movement, let alone general option selection and micro-decision making.

 

[spider_sense]

I've always played fast paced. lol, I can slow it down and play more calculated (which I actually want to work on) I just struggle so far with sheiks (bane of my existence) people in my scene are straight cp shiek against me cuz they can't beat me. lol. Looks like I need to play Marth for that m/u.

 

[spider_sense]

The new PR for SFL is about to be up; I know what place I got. Sadly I think I'm the only Ganon that made it. :/ Linguini gracefully declined to be included in this season (prolly bangin bad ******* and making sick beats)

L Linguini https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ic2d-1xVkkI

 

[-ACE-]

I've always played fast paced. lol, I can slow it down and play more calculated (which I actually want to work on) I just struggle so far with sheiks (bane of my existence) people in my scene are straight cp shiek against me cuz they can't beat me. lol. Looks like I need to play Marth for that m/u.

Your big mistake vs prof was ledgehopping when you edgeguarded, instead of regular getup. You gave him ledge at least 4 times for free that set.

 

[spider_sense]

Your big mistake vs prof was ledgehopping when you edgeguarded, instead of regular getup. You gave him ledge at least 4 times for free that set.

I need you bro! Plz point out my bad habits this weekend. We'll go over our sets and lets really commit to trying to figure this crap out. Edge guarding her is such a challenge for me; that I really just give up and play by the ledge. (which obviously isn't good) -_-

 

[-ACE-]

I need you bro! Plz point out my bad habits this weekend. We'll go over our sets and lets really commit to trying to figure this crap out. Edge guarding her is such a challenge for me; that I really just give up and play by the ledge. (which obviously isn't good) -_-

I won't be there next week... staying in the keys Monday/Tuesday. You should go too lol

I'm down to go over sets whenever you want to come by.

 

[-ACE-]

SFL... Where you get rear-ended at a stoplight and they don't even apologize. My truck is fine, his car got messed up. Karma.

 

[spider_sense]

SFL... Where you get rear-ended at a stoplight and they don't even apologize. My truck is fine, his car got messed up. Karma.

I can't miss any more days for awhile, cause they're going to get swamped with work. So that fkn sucks that I can't go. :/ Also, good **** CCing that dumbass driver. SFL drivers are pure trash.

 

[-ACE-]

Wondering...

If you're playing a fox that likes to waveshine you to ledge and then double shine on the last one, (if you are unable to SDI out beforehand) can you read this and double tap inward to SDI both shines and get shined toward center stage, instead of offstage/to ledge? I feel if you hold in after the second tap you should still get ledge if you fail. I also feel that this will make grabbing the ledge an option in situations where it normally isn't (if you are extremely close to the ledge when you are double shined, prett sure ASDI in doesn't always guarantee ledge, but SDI would).

Thoughts? More and more foxes are getting double shine happy nowadays.

 

[Oldiz]

if you SDI further than you slide from shine in 7 frames you can get shined inwards, really don't think it's feasible but worth exploring. You need at least 2 SDI inputs + ASDI I think. To do this you should hold cstick inwards and tap inwards with a slide to a diagonal on the analog.

 

[-ACE-]

I've been trying to brainstorm about DI options ever since i discovered how good this is vs multi hitbox moves:

If they approach from the right (you are on the left):

HOLD + and (double tap)

This gets me out of IC blizzard into grab and almost any fox drill combo. 2 SDI's away plus some ASDI away into buffered roll away. Use it!

 

[Oldiz]

I edited my last post, and moving to a diagonal adds an SDI input but not vice versa.

 

[-ACE-]

I edited my last post, and moving to a diagonal adds an SDI input but not vice versa.

How about double tap in while holding C-down+in?

I dont get what you were saying about 7 frames...

You'll get another SDI if you continue to rotate past the cardinal direction by a little bit (like perfect wd angle, probably closer)

 

[Oldiz]

There is a 7 (4 from the shine + 3 jumpsquat) frame gap between each shine. In order to go the other direction you need to be on the other side of the fox when the 2nd shine hits. Also I was wrong in that you would slide for 7 frames because shine has an electric effect, so 6 is probably more accurate.
C-stick doesn't affect SDI with the analog stick after all I know.

 

[-ACE-]

There is a 7 (4 from the shine + 3 jumpsquat) frame gap between each shine. In order to go the other direction you need to be on the other side of the fox when the 2nd shine hits. Also I was wrong in that you would slide for 7 frames because shine has an electric effect, so 6 is probably more accurate.
C-stick doesn't affect SDI with the analog stick after all I know.

Oh. Well i don't think double tapping within that time frame is too difficult with practice. Also, don't you only have to be on the other side of fox AFTER hitlag from the second shine? So, it wouldn't be when the second shine hits, it would be after the SDI (right?). Yes I'm aware c-stick does nothing for SDI.

 

[Oldiz]

It's definitely before the SDI can take place the direction is calculated. I've SDIed behind a CF when kneed and flew past him. Also the time frame I mentioned is about how far you need to go, for the SDI you need the time of the shines hitlag, which isn't more than 4 frames iirc.