Divinokage
Smash Legend
https://clips.twitch.tv/fuzzyness/CuriousScorpionUncleNox I miss PAL... the forward air setup was perfect... =(
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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread
- Thread starter Linguini
- Start date
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
LOL jank af.
What about that knee at 160 you survived? Did you cc and hold down and in, or were you saying you cc'd and switched to survival DI?
What about that knee at 160 you survived? Did you cc and hold down and in, or were you saying you cc'd and switched to survival DI?
spider_sense
Smash Champion
Tired asf. Will join in on the Flako discussion later.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
I think its during hitlag after you confirmed CC you can also immediately input a survival DI which is a SDI because of how fast you have to do it. The joystick is rotated diagonally upwards. I got that to happen many times.
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YvngFlameHoe
Smash Ace
You got a diagram of it?
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
A diagram of moving the stick from down to up and slightly in?
Pretty sure that fair was punishable on hit Kage, he shielded and let go of it long before the dsmash. He probably tried to tech it expecting it to be stronger. It worked more because of Europe don't know **** about ganon rather than PAL fair being good.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Divinokage
Smash Legend
I was talking about the 2nd fair setup that allowed falcon to die a bit faster. The fair at 0 looks safe to me, what could have punished me with if i decided to jab/ftilt or uair as a defensive option instead? I rewatched it a few times and theres no way he was in range to hit me with anything safely.
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with asdi down and di down he would either land earlier/instantly, and probably jab/grab you first. It definitely doesn't true combo into anything, and if he has as much as 2 frames advantage he can punish you for it.
I'm not 100% sure of the advantage of the move, and hope I'm wrong.
I'm not 100% sure of the advantage of the move, and hope I'm wrong.
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-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
It really looks like he could asdi down and dash jc grab before the dsmash hits. He definitely thought he'd be knocked down and tried to tech and got bodied lol
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
There's a bunch of Ganon footage from Summit 2.5 from both HBox and n0ne. I think HBox secretly has one of the best Ganon's just based on his fundamentals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMsHgDZT7Ws&ab_channel=ForgottenVODs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMsHgDZT7Ws&ab_channel=ForgottenVODs
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Nice, a lot more videos since i posted about this.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
He would have to run/walk forward to be able to jab/grab in the proper range which means that even you are - a good amount of frames you should still be fine because of the pushback. Of course I realize its not a true combo but i reacted for failing to CC the Fair. I dont really remember an instance where i got punished to land Fair on hit at 0%. I think i got shined but thats because i was way too close and it wasnt properly delayed and spaced.
Ace, if he decided to JC grab instead i would have jabbed him instead.
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In that instance, fuzzy had at least 5 frame window to just standing grab you even though he missed ASDI down on the fair. He was inside grab range because he SDI'd the fair in though, which probably doesn't usually happen. However if he ASDI'd down, he would've slid on the ground significantly less than he moved in the air, so he probably would've been inside range in any case.
Also, are you sure you reacted to no ASDI down? Because if you did, that was very fast reaction indeed, since you started dsmash at most 17 frames after the ASDI would've occurred. Thus it required a reaction in 16 frames with 3.5 - 5 frames input lag. I guess it's not completely impossible, but I doubt it.
In any case, ASDI down grab would've beat jab there handily.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
I play Ganon because i do have above average natural reaction time or else i would not be winning nearly as much. I also tested if its possible to do 20GX grab techchases on Fox and it is possible as long as you're able to follow the roll or his get up options. I dont see why it isnt possible at this point when im used to all the animations of every character. I can simply look and react atm because of my experience, not sure why im being doubted about this.
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-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
It's all good, i catch **** for saying Ganon can cg spacies via reaction around 60%, as if I'm too dumb not to realize if I'm going for a read. I just write it off as magic.
Sure, it's just my opinion that doing that on reaction is very hard, not conclusive evidence that you didn't react. It doesn't really matter anyway.
The main point was that the dsmash would've lost to a plethora of things fuzzy could've done there even when missed the ASDI down, and ASDI down grab would've beat even jab very easily.
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
Uhhh 16 frames is not a tough reaction. That's 266.66... ms, which is not even the average reaction time.
If you mean 16 frames before input lag, then that would be 12.5-11 frames, or ~180-200 ms. That is not impossible, but requires very fast reactions, considering the average reaction time is 250 ms.
If you mean 16 frames before input lag, then that would be 12.5-11 frames, or ~180-200 ms. That is not impossible, but requires very fast reactions, considering the average reaction time is 250 ms.
It's the latter case. Though it's not a reaction type that's usually tested, since here you'll know beforehand when the visual cue you need to recognize happens and there's multiple options you choose between depending on what you see. On second thoughts, I don't really have a good idea what to expect the avg or peak reaction times to be for this type of test.
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-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
True, regarding melee as a whole. But in many cases of punish game (like techchasing) for Ganon you know what you're about to do and you know there's only 2-3 cues. With practice, in my experience, it gets almost as easy as one visual cue. But not every scenario is like this.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
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Gotem City Vigilante
YvngFlameHoe
Smash Ace
I like how the video starts with Tipman immediately WF'n off stage LOL
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Sometimes you just can't help it lmao
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Good **** to Ian beating gg7 and TAI. He's still in!
SAKgamingTV on twitch
SAKgamingTV on twitch
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
eikelmann is single handily destroyed ganon and every single part of him that made him useful. Once he quit, all ganons got good. This raging *** can't even stay calm after a loss because he thinks he's so good at ganon when he's actually worse than bizzarro flame (check the placings)
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
But for real, good wins on Eikelmann's part. There was one moment during the GG7 set where he literally wavedashed under a high ftilt and got a grab. And the Tai win was great, of course.
I noticed he kept going to the top platform fishing for stomps. Although he was eating damage, every time he landed a stomp from that position he got 50+%. Against some players, even as good as Tai, the risk-reward might not be too bad to try that. Just in general, the punish game was on point. There were also some good use of double reverse uair as opposed to bair in juggle situations.
Although he won the set, it seemed like edgeguarding was one of the bigger problems. Sure, there were some good offstage stuff. But for the amount of times Tai was put offstage, there should have been more edgeguards. A lot of time, he'd just grab the ledge and either roll hoping Tai would sweet spot, or neutral getup grab. The grab onstage can convert into a kill sometimes. But most of the time, Marth will DI the dthrow so you have to uair or fair. From there, hey will just go to the other side of the stage and then get to the ledge. Ganon still has the advantage, but it's not as good as outright getting a kill. I would've liked to see more ledgehop uair stuff to cover Marth's recovery here. Just in general, it feels like a lot of Ganon's aren't really comfortable with doing it.
I noticed he kept going to the top platform fishing for stomps. Although he was eating damage, every time he landed a stomp from that position he got 50+%. Against some players, even as good as Tai, the risk-reward might not be too bad to try that. Just in general, the punish game was on point. There were also some good use of double reverse uair as opposed to bair in juggle situations.
Although he won the set, it seemed like edgeguarding was one of the bigger problems. Sure, there were some good offstage stuff. But for the amount of times Tai was put offstage, there should have been more edgeguards. A lot of time, he'd just grab the ledge and either roll hoping Tai would sweet spot, or neutral getup grab. The grab onstage can convert into a kill sometimes. But most of the time, Marth will DI the dthrow so you have to uair or fair. From there, hey will just go to the other side of the stage and then get to the ledge. Ganon still has the advantage, but it's not as good as outright getting a kill. I would've liked to see more ledgehop uair stuff to cover Marth's recovery here. Just in general, it feels like a lot of Ganon's aren't really comfortable with doing it.
RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
T
tauKhan
Do you know if Ganon's aerial down-b stop all momentum in the air? I feel like if I get sent back pretty far off stage and I'm able to down-b, I don't actually keep moving backward and the down-b just acts like normal. While if I were to jump instead of down-B'ing, my backward momentum would still carry.
Could you confirm or deny this?
Could you confirm or deny this?
The down-b doesn't alter kb speed (at least in PAL), and the down-b movement stacks with kb normally like speed acquired from jump does. Though if you hit ground with aerial down-b, that'll make you stop still for the duration off the landing lag. That still doesn't change your kb, but the kb deteriorates during the landing lag.
To make sure it's the same in NTSC, you may easily test that by d-smashing Ganon at very high % with falco near some inland edge in hyrule temple. ASDI down the dsmash (you can just crouch and hold down) so that you slide off the edge and can down-b or dj + down-b immediately.
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RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
Okay, so it sounds like it doesn't completely negate the momentum of being knocked away, but doesn't it at least diminish it? Even just a little? I swear I feel like it does in friendlies. At least once the actual down-b start, cause the startup I feel like keeps you moving backward. Your momentum is still carried when you double jump though I believe.
It doesn't look like it changes kb anyway in my opinion, but I can't be sure. I'll get that confirmed. Though I haven't heard of a move that would partially change kb; it always seems to be all or nothing type of change.
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YvngFlameHoe
Smash Ace
Eike is a holy celestial entity vs Falcon
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Yeah, he's literally beaten every top falcon aside from wizzy.
YvngFlameHoe
Smash Ace
has he played gravy and n0ne?
n0ne: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2qqDfGqwk
couldn't find gravy
couldn't find gravy
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
I don't think he has any recorded sets with gravy but he's played all the 20gx falcons a good bit