Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[-ACE-]

I played nearly everyone ya but i disagree that players run away more in this meta. If they actually still play with that strat then Ganon becomes better because they corner themselves willingly. The better players take every opportunity they can right now + a lot of them can 0-death you pretty easily if you dont have good defense.

You and I both know Fox usually has enough options and opportunities to run away and laser for 2-3 seconds (DL, PS, FD) and stop before he's cornered. Not everyone does it right, but it's definitely possible. They can get around Ganon, and if they find a hole in your neutral as you're closing the gap they can go straight to punish mode. That's why pressuring properly is so difficult and important. I agree that Fox players who know the matchup are more aggressive, but there aren't that many porkchops/colbol/syrox/ryan fords out there.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

I think there's a distinction between punishing aggressively and playing aggressively. When people talk about the latter, they generally mean in the neutral game. And these days, the neutral is far more defense-based across the board.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Also I think fox can play more campy without making things easier for Ganon than falco because he's fast enough to get out of range of Ganon as long as he doesn't completely back himself into a corner. Falco has more trouble doing this, so he has to go in more against Ganon if the Ganon knows how to deal with lasers. Still, falcos optimal playstyle in that matchup is hit and run.

 

[-ACE-]

falcos optimal playstyle in that matchup is hit and run.

He can definitely tech trap Ganon enough to maintain pressure once he lands a decent hit. He just has to choose his openings wisely, as he'll have less openings than Fox.

 

[Divinokage]

Punishing aggressively? What does that mean? It's a general rule that when you do land a hit and you have enough time during stun to land another hit then you should go for it every time. There's no reason to go for a strange mixup during that phase meaning that you let someone off the stun time to guess another move in neutral. You can choose many moves during that stun time which is the true mix up everyone should do.

 

[-ACE-]

You guys might be getting some more ACE hurricane footage in the next 2 days lol

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Punishing aggressively? What does that mean? It's a general rule that when you do land a hit and you have enough time during stun to land another hit then you should go for it every time. There's no reason to go for a strange mixup during that phase meaning that you let someone off the stun time to guess another move in
neutral. You can choose many moves during that stun time which is the true mix up everyone should do.

That's exactly what I mean by punishing aggressively. You said that the good players will take every opportunity they're given and can 0 to death. Is that not aggressive? Perhaps it's how you should always play, but I'd still call it aggressive nonetheless.

And what about situations where you don't have a guaranteed hit where you have the advantage? Do you hold stage? Or do you make a risky move that might net you more if it pays off? I think you can see more of a distinction between aggression and neutral play when the next hit isn't guaranteed.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Some really good players wait until just as someone is double jumping to get out of a combo to hit them. They wait for that small frame window to happen and then bam, no double jump. Don't know if you'd call that aggressive, but I'd call it smart, depending on the situation of course.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Yeah there are situations like that where it's not really aggression. But what about this: a knockdown scenario where you weren't there to punish missed tech in time and your character is not fast enough to cover roll away on reaction. You could just try to cover roll in, getup attack, or neutral getup and maintain stage positioning. But if the other player is good and knows you can't cover the roll away, they will roll away more often. So reading that I would consider to be an aggressive play because you are taking a risk while doing it.

Or what about a platform tech chase? Technically, going for a waveland grab on the platform is not guaranteed. But I see players go for it all the time because it nets so much. I'd say that's an aggressive play too.

Point is, there are a lot of situations like these that come up. Often (not always, sometimes you can just cover everything or make a smart play) you have to choose between being safe and maintaining control, or risking losing the positioning in favor of a stronger punish.

 

[-ACE-]

Going in when something isn't guaranteed is aggressive. Taking free opportunities when they're presented is safe.

 

[-ACE-]

spider_sense hit be up. You got time off from the hurricane?

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Going in when something isn't guaranteed is aggressive. Taking free opportunities when they're presented is safe.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm talking about choosing between two options that aren't guaranteed when nothing else is guaranteed.

 

[-ACE-]

That's not what I'm saying. I'm talking about choosing between two options that aren't guaranteed when nothing else is guaranteed.

I was speaking in generalities, not referring to your post.

**** my power is already out. Hurricane hasn't even hit

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Oh ok.

Well anyway, stay safe ace. A hurricane is nothing compared to the Sheik matchup.

 

[-ACE-]

Lol, garbage truck ran over a power pole. Yeah I'll be good. Could blow over 100mph here. West Palm, just 30 mins north will get the full 145mph from the eye wall.

spider_sense you trying to go surfing? Lmao. Hit me up tho

 

[Divinokage]

Yeah there are situations like that where it's not really aggression. But what about this: a knockdown scenario where you weren't there to punish missed tech in time and your character is not fast enough to cover roll away on reaction. You could just try to cover roll in, getup attack, or neutral getup and maintain stage positioning. But if the other player is good and knows you can't cover the roll away, they will roll away more often. So reading that I would consider to be an aggressive play because you are taking a risk while doing it.

Or what about a platform tech chase? Technically, going for a waveland grab on the platform is not guaranteed. But I see players go for it all the time because it nets so much. I'd say that's an aggressive play too.

Point is, there are a lot of situations like these that come up. Often (not always, sometimes you can just cover everything or make a smart play) you have to choose between being safe and maintaining control, or risking losing the positioning in favor of a stronger punish.

Thats simply another phase of the game altogether. I'd call that the knockdown phase. The way I see it is there's the neutral, there's the knockdown phase, edgeguard phase and then combo phase.

 

[-ACE-]

I just group knockdown and combo as punish game.

 

[Swagic]

Man, I still have classes. Even FGCU has cancelled already. Plus side, means I have plenty of time to sit around and watch the Big House stream/ play Melee.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Thats simply another phase of the game altogether. I'd call that the knockdown phase. The way I see it is there's the neutral, there's the knockdown phase, edgeguard phase and then combo phase.

I just group knockdown and combo as punish game.

You could group those phases into even larger groups where you're either in control, or your opponent is in control.

If you got your opponent knocked down, that's some form of control, though usually indirectly. Comboing someone means you have more direct control of them. Edgeguarding is the same as well. Whichever player has more control in a match, it is more likely for that player to win. Then again, Fox only needs to get control like once for 10 seconds to just combo you to death you just shine gimp you rofl.

 

[-ACE-]

No hurricane footage, **** is only blowing like 35mph with 50mph gusts here.

I REALLY should have started recording when some wannabe thug called me racist for not having a lighter to lend him. I wasn't even smoking lmao. He kept saying "are you serious? Are you serious???" and "come on man" "I know someone inside has one" and I just told him "I don't give a ****". He then proceeded to call me a racist piece of ****, and said he was apart of the illuminati, and that the illuminati was going to "get me". At this point I'm laughing hysterically in his face, and he says "you're laughing now, but you'll be crying later" and started giving me the illuminati sign (I guess) looked like Jay-Z's Rockefella sign lmao. I just kept laughing and he asked me 3 times if I had my green card. He said Donald Trump is going to deport me and that Trump is "coming for me", and that I'm of the lower class. To that I replied "dude you can't even get your own lighter!!" Still laughing. He said I'll be going back to my home country soon. LOOOOOOL. He also made fun of me for not being black. Where the **** do these people come from lmao.

Good luck to anyone attending Big House!

 

[Linguini]

ffffffffffffff

 

[-ACE-]

rofl. yo what u doing tomorrow night dave? Looks like this hurricane just missed us. All we got was a lil rain and some prettty chill wind. But ya i'm down to get gaymes in. I haven't played in at least a month lol

I'm tryna body hugs at tgl next weekend LOL

I work like 4 to 10:30, I'm down to chill or play somewhere till around 1, 2 at the latest. I'm working every Saturday/Sunday/Monday/ for the next 3 weeks so not many tourneys for me in the near future

L Linguini If clay wanted to play I'd be down at his place too. My girl works a double tomorrow so she'd be going to bed early. At least then you'd get some better practice too.

 

[spider_sense]

I work like 4 to 10:30, I'm down to chill or play somewhere till around 1, 2 at the latest. I'm working every Saturday/Sunday/Monday/ for the next 3 weeks so not many tourneys for me in the near future

L Linguini If clay wanted to play I'd be down at his place too. My girl works a double tomorrow so she'd be going to bed early. At least then you'd get some better practice too.

Damn my bad dude, been going through alot with my dog, but he's fine for now at least. I'm down to chill tomorrow, but my job had to close shop because of the storm, so I have little to my name as far as money is concerned. lol I'll get paid on sunday. Also, you found work bro? Good **** if you did. You do know I'm going to have to ask the impending question now that you found work. lmao

 

[spider_sense]

rofl. yo what u doing tomorrow night dave? Looks like this hurricane just missed us. All we got was a lil rain and some prettty chill wind. But ya i'm down to get gaymes in. I haven't played in at least a month lol

I'm tryna body hugs at tgl next weekend LOL

^ Not before I do.

 

[Waldoring]

Just got back from another weekly. The only matchup which I'm consistently having trouble with is vs Marth; everything else seems doable (even sheik ever since I ground out the cg until grab = stock on fd/dl).

Neutral is entirely composed of marth fishing for grabs or fair/nair into grab, then getting techchased, put offstage, and edgeguarded with nothing but nair/fsmash/dair depending on if I recover high, non-sweetspot low or sweetspot. I'm fine with accepting that I can't get back to stage vs a competent player, but neutral shouldn't be this bad. It doesn't help that there's only one good marth in the area.

Can I get some links to videos showing two players well-versed in the mu? Something like Linguini v Porkchops for Marth?

 

[Swagic]

Just got back from another weekly. The only matchup which I'm consistently having trouble with is vs Marth; everything else seems doable (even sheik ever since I ground out the cg until grab = stock on fd/dl).

Neutral is entirely composed of marth fishing for grabs or fair/nair into grab, then getting techchased, put offstage, and edgeguarded with nothing but nair/fsmash/dair depending on if I recover high, non-sweetspot low or sweetspot. I'm fine with accepting that I can't get back to stage vs a competent player, but neutral shouldn't be this bad. It doesn't help that there's only one good marth in the area.

Can I get some links to videos showing two players well-versed in the mu? Something like Linguini v Porkchops for Marth?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8wsG-mEHIxU

At least the commentators know Marth stuff... Pretty sure Pseudo is one of the best vs Marth.

Anyway, especially with nair in this matchup, I'm fairly sure Ganon's side-B goes under/behind Marth's nair and will hit without a trade, at least sometimes. Also SH double fair is not safe.

 

[-ACE-]

Damn my bad dude, been going through alot with my dog, but he's fine for now at least. I'm down to chill tomorrow, but my job had to close shop because of the storm, so I have little to my name as far as money is concerned. lol I'll get paid on sunday. Also, you found work bro? Good **** if you did. You do know I'm going to have to ask the impending question now that you found work. lmao

Lol I can't partake in the green scene. Too risky and takes too long to get out of my system. I'm down to play pretty much any time after 10:30pm until like 1-2, gf works a double today, I work 5-10.

 

[-ACE-]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8wsG-mEHIxU

At least the commentators know Marth stuff... Pretty sure Pseudo is one of the best vs Marth.

Anyway, especially with nair in this matchup, I'm fairly sure Ganon's side-B goes under/behind Marth's nair and will hit without a trade, at least sometimes. Also SH double fair is not safe.

I spam side-b lol, constantly learning what I can do with it. Don't plan on beating nair. You can hit them during their landing lag and if they don't asdi you can follow up. If you bait a sh rising fair with your dd you can side-b on reaction and hit before the second fair, but you must be quick.

 

[Bwmat]

I think you just have godly reactions, lol

 

[-ACE-]

I think you just have godly reactions, lol

I think I so too, but so does tm. I think practice can improve reactions. The amount I have to focus is crazy.

 

[Bwmat]

Lol http://www.twitch.tv/vanstreetbattle/v/93787374?sr=a&t=1944

Didn't enter singles, was a good decision IMO, less stress

Also, I did a nil into instant dash attack towards ledge by accident, looks hilarious, surprisingly effective.

 

[-ACE-]

My back yard in NC. The short pole beside the one with the birdhouse is 7ft tall, so 5 feet deep easy.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Somehow I'm not really that rusty after not playing Ganon for 3 weeks.

 

[-ACE-]

Somehow I'm not really that rusty after not playing Ganon for 3 weeks.

3.5 months rusted me pretty well lol. Gotta grind for a few days.

After 3 weeks I should go to 3 days a week at my temporary job instead of 6-7, so plenty more time for smash until my main job calls me back.

 

[Duel]

Well, I got 129th at the Big House 6, very happy with my placing.
Lost to Iceman in Pools round 2, considering he also beat Kage 2-0 I can't really complain about that.
Nice to say hi to some of you ganons this weekend also, now back to the school/work/Ganon grind.

 

[-ACE-]

Is iceman a sheik?

 

[Duel]

Is iceman a sheik?

Marth, 3rd on the Washington PR.

 

[tm]

I think I so too, but so does tm. I think practice can improve reactions. The amount I have to focus is crazy.

Speak for yourself, I think every time I've done that it was a read lol.

At BH6: Got ****ed up by foxes that knew how to abuse the MU. GGs

 

[-ACE-]

Speak for yourself, I think every time I've done that it was a read lol.

At BH6: Got ****ed up by foxes that knew how to abuse the MU. GGs

I mean, if you crank the numbers it's about the same as getting a cg regrab on fox at 50%. Pretty sure you can do that 50% of the time. You just have to be focused on the first visual cue of fair just like you focus on DI visual cues for the cg. If his second fair is a frame or 2 late, which is common, it obviously gets easier. All I said is you have good reaction time, if you're denying that, share the dank!

 

[Linguini]

****, I need to warm up for this tourney saturday but the job is draining all my energy lately. Me and colbol bringing the classic team back. The world ain't ready!