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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

PseudoTurtle

PseudoTurtle

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By the way I got a question vs peach: what do you do after dthrow at low% to potentially maximize damage? Jason chose nair, as do I, but the second hit rarely connects. It connects decently well vs marth, can setup for platform combos etc. but vs peach, it seems to end the combo.

At low% dthrow vs peach, would something like jab (or double jab) into ftilt / up air work? Maybe dthrow --> late up air --> dash attack --> bair? I know that one's a stretch, but better than one hit. I'm tired of not punishing as well as I should, most specifically vs peach. Every % especially matters in that matchup because of the difficulty associated with edge guarding her.

Also, a PSA to ganon players vs marth in this situation: marth will tech here. Always. But you can cover EVERY option by doing what you would normally do (bair) and reacting to the tech roll with a double jump aerial. So, sh bair, like Jason did (covers missed tech), and then double jump bair to cover tech behind / tech in place. If they tech toward stage, you can up air. However, most of the time, they will shield, so double jump --> waveland --> grab will probably work for tech toward stage. Gets you another bair and send them offstage, as opposed to simple extra damage with the up air. Better punish.
 
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O

Oldiz

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Apr 15, 2015
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Dthrow vs peach doesnt give you that much time to combo, as her nair gets her out of most options. Would dthrow upb be true though? Ends the combo and does some juicy %. Nair/uair is probably best though.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

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In that situation I would have NIL'd on the plat immediately after dthrow and grabbed Marth.

reposting for new page

Spider_sense vs RockCrock
https://youtu.be/3lNkPMyRSMg

Spider_sense vs Oaty (peach)
https://youtu.be/W6Z5a6Hs8tU

Linguini vs Envy (puff)
https://youtu.be/PZbkXw8a9UU

Spider_sense vs Barraca
https://youtu.be/dI2reF-Avx8

Linguini vs Pure (peach)
https://youtu.be/QeoDQGYuRqo

Spider_sense vs flipsy (climbers)
https://youtu.be/of_T-NPkNqE

Spider_sense vs Linguini
https://youtu.be/ZAVok2eUMUQ

Spider_sense vs Mr Lz (G&W/martha)
https://youtu.be/vbWj4wje5_s

Spider_sense vs Blea (winners)
https://youtu.be/ZnKMRKK_-BQ

Spider_sense vs Blea (LF)
https://youtu.be/aztZQWRU5Xk
 
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tm

tm

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Joined
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Messages
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-ACE- said:
Spider_sense vs RockCrock
https://youtu.be/3lNkPMyRSMg

Spider_sense vs Oaty (peach)
https://youtu.be/W6Z5a6Hs8tU

Linguini vs Envy (puff)
https://youtu.be/PZbkXw8a9UU

Spider_sense vs Barraca
https://youtu.be/dI2reF-Avx8

Linguini vs Pure (peach)
https://youtu.be/QeoDQGYuRqo

Spider_sense vs flipsy (climbers)
https://youtu.be/of_T-NPkNqE

Spider_sense vs Linguini
https://youtu.be/ZAVok2eUMUQ

Spider_sense vs Mr Lz (G&W/martha)
https://youtu.be/vbWj4wje5_s

Spider_sense vs Blea (winners)
https://youtu.be/ZnKMRKK_-BQ

Spider_sense vs Blea (LF)
https://youtu.be/aztZQWRU5Xk
Click to expand...
Awesome! Thanks so much for the list. Let's ****ing go TGL / FL ganons

PseudoTurtle said:
By the way I got a question vs peach: what do you do after dthrow at low% to potentially maximize damage? Jason chose nair, as do I, but the second hit rarely connects. It connects decently well vs marth, can setup for platform combos etc. but vs peach, it seems to end the combo.

At low% dthrow vs peach, would something like jab (or double jab) into ftilt / up air work? Maybe dthrow --> late up air --> dash attack --> bair? I know that one's a stretch, but better than one hit. I'm tired of not punishing as well as I should, most specifically vs peach. Every % especially matters in that matchup because of the difficulty associated with edge guarding her.

Also, a PSA to ganon players vs marth in this situation: marth will tech here. Always. But you can cover EVERY option by doing what you would normally do (bair) and reacting to the tech roll with a double jump aerial. So, sh bair, like Jason did (covers missed tech), and then double jump bair to cover tech behind / tech in place. If they tech toward stage, you can up air. However, most of the time, they will shield, so double jump --> waveland --> grab will probably work for tech toward stage. Gets you another bair and send them offstage, as opposed to simple extra damage with the up air. Better punish.
Click to expand...
Generally peach will be too high for jab. I like to nair if she's close (which makes it more likely to hit twice) and ftilt if she's not (which is less risky to trade with her nair, more dmg than single hit nair, and gives a pretty good positional advantage)
 
O

Oldiz

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Apr 15, 2015
Messages
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So the vods from my two last tournaments is up, and I'd appreciate some feedback as I feel like I have some bad gameplans versus young link for example. The 1st tournament I got 1st and the 2nd i got 2nd (heh).
(1st)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhIxzN460bI (Ganon vs ganon/falcon)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDVnxhOGbW4 (Just 1 or 2 matches as ganon)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85ROn1QdF90 (Ganon vs ics)

(2nd)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVRVHdhAAvo (Ganon vs marth/falco)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmVohuaPvV0 (Ganon vs YL) Lost
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCKRvpRjczE (Ganon vs marth(?)/sheik)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEwwaQV24Lc (Ganon/Link vs YL) Lost

It's a lot of footage, but it'd be fantastic with comments on how to improve for example.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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One thing I'm not sure of is...

After dthrow on peach, what% is FULLHOP uair guaranteed. If it was low enough, I'm sure fullhop uair scoop into falling uair could work.

But yeah, I like high ftilt like tm said. It's easy to cover both DI away and DI behind with it. For DI behind at 0% bair isn't anywhere close to guaranteed. Turnaround high ftilt is easy. And if she doesn't DI you can uair/nair off reaction.
 
O

Oldiz

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Joined
Apr 15, 2015
Messages
125
When leaving the ground, you're not affected by gravity in one frame, if you do an aerial that is overruled, so you get affected by gravity one frame earlier, and therefore jump lower. Aerials effects how your ECB is, which means you might need to jump higher to land on platforms.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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Sep 25, 2007
Messages
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Location
The back country, GA
Oldiz said:
When leaving the ground, you're not affected by gravity in one frame, if you do an aerial that is overruled, so you get affected by gravity one frame earlier, and therefore jump lower. Aerials effects how your ECB is, which means you might need to jump higher to land on platforms.
Click to expand...
I agree with that I just don't understand what you were saying before
 
O

Oldiz

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Since you're already in the air, dj and then fp aerial doesn't affect your gravity.
 
O

Oldiz

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Messages
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I see, I thought we were talking about fp sh uair, then dj uair. Nevermind then.
 
tm

tm

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-ACE- said:
One thing I'm not sure of is...

After dthrow on peach, what% is FULLHOP uair guaranteed. If it was low enough, I'm sure fullhop uair scoop into falling uair could work.

But yeah, I like high ftilt like tm said. It's easy to cover both DI away and DI behind with it. For DI behind at 0% bair isn't anywhere close to guaranteed. Turnaround high ftilt is easy. And if she doesn't DI you can uair/nair off reaction.
Click to expand...
Same % as SH uair, whatever that is. Like almost zero probably?
 
PseudoTurtle

PseudoTurtle

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Oldiz said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVRVHdhAAvo (Ganon vs marth/falco)
Click to expand...
I'll do a little critique on this one.

First off, fair isn't all that great in this matchup - you can't just rely on the massive size of the hitbox when facing marth because his fair will stuff yours every time. I much prefer staying grounded, spacing around aerials, and throwing out tilts.

0:39 when you're in the corner like this, it's hard to get back to center. Wavelanding in is risky and often isn't met with much success. I still do it too because it's a bad habit, but a much safer option would be to wavedash back on the ledge and figure things out from there.

0:50 try refreshing invincibility more. Though you did get the stock, it was pretty ambiguous whether or not your opponent had his jump. Had he had it, he would have made it safely on stage - vs marth, you want to keep your options open when edge guarding and react accordingly with ledge drop up airs, ledge hop up airs, etc.

1:00 after that second stomp, just grab. I really like the idea of going for d!ck hitbox of up smash, but you weren't facing the right way - it would have sent him to the right and ended the combo. Grab leads into bair and now you have an edge guard scenario.

1:08 after marth dairs your shield, jumping out isn't usually the best punish. Your opponent chose to drop through up air, and I know dart loves to fsmash (he spaces well and it's always a tipper - annoying af). This is actually a really bad spot for you to be in because you can't really stay in shield or else marth is below you and you're shielding on a yoshi's plat... lol always bad news. Maybe roll? I actually don't know what to recommend here.

1:16 watch out for that pull back on the fsmash. Annoying but easily adaptable.

1:40 I actually don't really like get up attack as an edge guard vs marth to be honest. Especially here, when marth has so many recovery options. In this scenario, I almost always go for ledge hop up air to stuff an early recovery. Even if it misses, you have much less cool down time than get up attack and can cover the fade back to ledge. If he chooses a low recovery, the cool down time with ledge hop up air allows you another chance to cover low recovery with the tipman. The only time I would even use get up attack is when a sweetspot attempt is coming (covers sweetspot and land on stage), but even then, the light shield marth killer works just as well. If you insist on using get up attack, look at how tm uses it, he does it pretty well.

2:36 when falco spams bair against your shield like that, you can actually beat this, even though it looks intimidating. As soon as you get hit with a bair, instant short hop up air out of shield. It should beat him out completely, but it will trade at the very least. Linguini tech ;)

2:58 kind of a bad down b, but you got lucky lol. Good falcos won't reverse their lasers like that. This is another bad habit of mine that I'm trying to fix. To be honest, it's not thaaaat bad because laser will reset you with basically no cool down. Still not recommended lol.

3:25 nice tech. I'd recommend getting in the habit of immediately pressing up b OR bair once you hit the tech so you can land again safely. I prefer bair, but it doesn't make that much of a difference.

3:36 was kinda weird - but you light shielded the dair and then full shielded the shine, essentially giving you the same result as shield DI would. You can grab after the shine here (and definitely start getting into the habit of shield DI especially vs falco). There's a GIF that magus made explaining it, -ACE- -ACE- do you know what I'm talking about?

3:41 beautiful punish after stomp. I talked about this a while ago. That hitbox is SO STRONG and this was easily your best punish option. Nice to see it being used.

3:52 he was pretty obvious about using dair here (easy option for him), and you were at low %. SDI this away and sometimes the shine won't hit, allowing you to get a free grab.

4:38 I'd just grab here, as it's guaranteed after fsmash on shield. Stomp is decent if you think they're going to shine, but just keep in mind it doesn't come out before they can shield.

5:38 this is why I don't like get up attack. Marth killer would have done just fine here. And if they marth killer early and get on stage, just grab and bair until they're off stage again.

5:48 another reason I dislike get up attack lol, if they recover early enough, it sends them back on stage. I know some of the ganons here like to use it and it definitely has its uses. If you want to apply it better, watch some of tm's matches vs marth.

5:55 was a good edge guard, but could be better - Again, you should be refreshing your invincibility here because if the marth had up b'd a little earlier, you would have been stage spiked and died. Invincible ledge drop bair beats marth up b every single time. I also prefer ledge drop up air due to the increase in range, but bair is ok too.

7:25 so you definitely have your techs down, which is good. Next step is to train your muscles to hit that c-stick after the tech, it's a free bair.

Overall, you did play pretty well. Definitely dominated this guy lolol, but there's always room for improvement. Sorry for the wall of text everybody.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

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tm said:
Same % as SH uair, whatever that is. Like almost zero probably?
Click to expand...
Sh(fp) uair is guaranteed at zero.

Since fullhop takes (how many?) more frames, you'd need more stun (more%) for a fullhop uair to be guaranteed.
 
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PseudoTurtle

PseudoTurtle

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But back to dthrow punish on peach at low% - I can definitely sometimes jab after it. I do like the option to ftilt too, but I'm just wondering if the punish can be maximized. High ftilt is a good idea though because with DI in, you can probably follow up.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

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Magus420 said:
U-Air: No Turn at 0%
True Combo ..... 2 Frame Window for Error
Beats N-Air .... 4 Frame Window for Error
Trade w/ N-Air . 5 Frame Window for Error

U-Air: Lagless Turnaround to Dash at 0%
True Combo ..... 0 Frame Window for Error
Beats N-Air .... 2 Frame Window for Error
Trade w/ N-Air . 3 Frame Window for Error
Click to expand...
Reference.
 
tm

tm

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-ACE- said:
Sh(fp) uair is guaranteed at zero.

Since fullhop takes (how many?) more frames, you'd need more stun (more%) for a fullhop uair to be guaranteed.
Click to expand...
zero. It doesn't take any longer. Unless full hopping puts you too high and it whiffs
 
tm

tm

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PseudoTurtle said:
But back to dthrow punish on peach at low% - I can definitely sometimes jab after it. I do like the option to ftilt too, but I'm just wondering if the punish can be maximized. High ftilt is a good idea though because with DI in, you can probably follow up.
Click to expand...
If so then I would option select jab at whatever DI that works (into best follow up... uair probably?) or ftilt / nair otherwise?

Idk I can look into this when I'm done with falcon stuff but tbh there are 5 MUs that require way more of my attention
 
X WaNtEd X

X WaNtEd X

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So last week I played Killa Hertz at Nebs...and lost 2-1. My falco's getting better, but still not as good as my Ganon in the matchup. So I had to play the dorf. Unfortunately, I didn't get to play anyone else but him that I couldn't beat, and I wound up getting knocked out by him at like 17th place or something. I was unseeded, so that definitely affected things. I beat some Puff that was supposedly top 25 in NYC, so that was cool I guess.
 
Duel

Duel

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tm said:
I took a friendly off drephen once. He's free as ****

lol jk he's really good. Kage 3-0d him at big house 5 tho
Click to expand...
It was a 2-0, but it continues to give me false hope in that MU . LOL
 
X WaNtEd X

X WaNtEd X

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I'm convinced this track is about the Sheik matchup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWDwiIM-1vQ&ab_channel=k4nc3r

A lot of it is about the seemingly futile battle between the underground rapper and the more fiscally successful "big willie" rapper. He's basically declaring his intention to take the more underground route to the top, rather than the easy path. To me, this symbolizes the path of a Ganon player. The line at the end, and the name of the song, are direct references to Dante's Divine Comedy. I think it's also pretty reasonable to equate the Sheik matchup to an entering hell.

The best part is he even references Bizzarroflame with the line "I'm Ae-****ing sop rock mic bizarro....well at least I wish that was the case. Apparently bizarro world was a planet in the DC universe where lesser versions of super heroes lived. Pretty sure this is one of the inspirations behind Bizz's name.
 
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