Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[X WaNtEd X]

Dang everyone ganging up on n0ne all of a sudden. I don't think n0ne was in line by saying all we do is talk **** on these boards. It feels like he's not really giving this place a fair chance. But I can understand his frustration given how it seems whenever his Ganon is brought up a lot of the more prominent people around here dismiss him.

All I hear are vague criticisms such as "he only uses gimmicks" or "that wouldn't work on a good opponent or in another matchup". But I don't see anyone actually breaking down what he's doing an explaining why it's bad. I understand some things, like the wavedash jabs, are pretty risky. But a lot of it looks like legitimate mixups and mindgames to me. The tomahawks, for example, are really well done.

As for Hugs in the mu, Hugs literally has beaten both SS and Eikelmann in the last two years. I realize Linguini beat his ass back in the day, but the meta has changed a lot since then. It's also changed since SS and Eikelmann lost, but those are both somewhat recent losses. So I don't know why everyone is saying he sucks at the matchup when he beat two of the best Ganons on their home turf.

Also just because he moves around so much in the Samus matchup doesn't mean you couldn't change around that type of movement to make it work in other matchups and players. Just because it isn't the FL style doesn't mean it's bad. Feels like there's an FL Ganon elitism to a certain extent. And you know, I completely understand that. You guys have most of the best Ganons. But that doesn't mean that what others are doing "disgraces the FL style." Sounds pretty close minded to me.

 

[-ACE-]

Ian beat n0ne tho. Guess they played more than once? Anyway I like Ed and his Ganon, he's def a cool guy for those who haven't actually met him, but it's no secret he's mad cocky lol. It's part of his charisma along with his unique style of play. And I think the praise he receives far outweighs any criticism. Jason is just talking friendly ****, Ed just didn't know him well lol. Not a big deal really lol

Edit: And for what it's worth, Blea asked me a few weeks ago if shamunt was going to fly someone out to the TGL tourney, who should that person be. I didn't even hesitate. I was dude, ask n0ne. Too bad they didn't do the special guest thing.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Ian beat n0ne tho. Guess they played more than once? Anyway I like Ed and his Ganon, he's def a cool guy for those who haven't actually met him, but it's no secret he's mad cocky lol. It's part of his charisma along with his unique style of play. And I think the praise he receives far outweighs any criticism. Jason is just talking friendly ****, Ed just didn't know him well lol. Not a big deal really lol

Edit: And for what it's worth, Blea asked me a few weeks ago if shamunt was going to fly someone out to the TGL tourney, who should that person be. I didn't even hesitate. I was dude, ask n0ne. Too bad they didn't do the special guest thing.

That's true. To my knowledge they didn't play anymore than that one set. But my point was that it's debatable whether or not Hugs sucks at the MU considering those wins.

I wasn't really referring to the **** talk. Obviously that was all in good fun, but as you say n0ne probably just didn't realize that. I was talking more about what renth had to say on twitter and what Linguini had to say about n0ne's style.

I agree on the praise outweighing the criticism when talking about him as a player. But it feels like people see his Ganon as a gimmick. There's literally a conversation on twitter where multiple high level players state that they believe Ganon is worse than Pichu lmao. I'm just looking for what makes his playstyle gimmicky to some of the better and more experienced Ganon players.

 

[-ACE-]

Ganon worse than pichu? LOL **** dude, I realize speed is HUGE when theorizing matchups but no matter how thoroughly the meta advances in this game IRL will ALWAYS BE DIFFERENT THAN THEORY (beer caps lock effect). Pichu is super untapped honestly but that character will never accomplish what Ganon has. There are no pichu players well versed in the Ganon mu but one that is could beat a good Ganon. That doesn't mean **** tho. How could anyone argue that LOL. I love people that think they understand melee. ****ing reddit idiots lol

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Ganon worse than pichu? LOL **** dude, I realize speed is HUGE whether theorizing matchups but no matter how thoroughly the meta advances in this game IRL will ALWAYS BE DIFFERENT THAN THEORY (beer caps lock effect). Pichu is super untapped honestly but that character will never accomplish what Ganon has. There are no pichu players well versed in the Ganon mu but one that is could beat a good Ganon. That doesn't mean **** tho. How could anyone argue that LOL. I love people that think they understand melee. ****ing reddit idiots lol

Players such as Hugs, Toph, and Laudandus all believe this. I'm not even joking go to Hugs' twitter when you get the chance LOL

 

[Swagic]

Wait- we kill Pichu literally in three hits. And Pichu is better?

 

[Bwmat]

Lol @ ganon being worse than pichu.

People complain whenever I enter low tier tournaments as ganon, and they're right to, lol.

 

[tm]

Vids from this past week:

vs Identity Crisis (Falco) WQF
vs Quang (Fox) WSF
vs KJH (Fox) WF
vs Quang (Fox) LF (posted earlier by ACE)
vs KJH (Fox) GF (posted earlier by ACE)

 

[-ACE-]

Players such as Hugs, Toph, and Laudandus all believe this. I'm not even joking go to Hugs' twitter when you get the chance LOL

They're all idiots.

 

[Divinokage]

That's true. To my knowledge they didn't play anymore than that one set. But my point was that it's debatable whether or not Hugs sucks at the MU considering those wins.

I wasn't really referring to the **** talk. Obviously that was all in good fun, but as you say n0ne probably just didn't realize that. I was talking more about what renth had to say on twitter and what Linguini had to say about n0ne's style.

I agree on the praise outweighing the criticism when talking about him as a player. But it feels like people see his Ganon as a gimmick. There's literally a conversation on twitter where multiple high level players state that they believe Ganon is worse than Pichu lmao. I'm just looking for what makes his playstyle gimmicky to some of the better and more experienced Ganon players.

I told him to go Ganon vs Hugs because I knew that Hugs struggles vs a good Ganon. I don't see how his Ganon is a gimmick when it can be used to beat someone that might be really good vs Falcon for example. Stages and how comfortable you are in a matchup is also obviously important but anyways.. all these top players revel in being memes these days so **** it, no need to pay attention to jokers.

 

[Swagic]

Yeah, I only take information on characters from people who actually play that character. I won't take Wizzy's advice about Link or Shroomed's advice on Yoshi. Seriously, if you don't understand the character, you have no business bashing them.

 

[Coastward]

Vids from this past week:

vs Identity Crisis (Falco) WQF
vs Quang (Fox) WSF
vs KJH (Fox) WF
vs Quang (Fox) LF (posted earlier by ACE)
vs KJH (Fox) GF (posted earlier by ACE)

lowkey supplying me with combo video footage these past few weeks

 

[-ACE-]

Just checked Twitter. Idiots are completely dismissing empty shff wL, NIL applications, shield drop applications, AC applications, etc. Ganon actually doesn't completely depend on reads either. They are spewing ignorance lol

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

Finally remembered my password for this account and just finished up reading the past couple months of posts. Missed ya guys especially Ace and Joe!

 

[Mr.Cochise]

Welcome back Bizz.

 

[Linguini]

Lol the only drama being created is by wanted himself. No one hated on n0ne I just didn't think his style was groundbreaking like he thought it was, which is just my opinion..tnt we know drama

 

[-ACE-]

Sup BIZZ!

 

[-ACE-]

spider_sense taking a set off Blea tho. Good **** papi

 

[Swagic]

Geez... G. Vice has come back to the boards (well... Stopped in), Tipman is back, n0ne dropped back by, Bizz is back...

We just need some Renth and Chaddd and it'll be just like the old days again.

 

[-ACE-]

Needs more RockCrock!

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Lol the only drama being created is by wanted himself. No one hated on n0ne I just didn't think his style was groundbreaking like he thought it was, which is just my opinion..tnt we know drama

No dude I understand. And because I respect your opinion, I just wanted to hear more on it. Like "this stuff right here should not be used" or "hugs sucks at the mu because take a look at the **** he's doing right here." I'm not trying to start any drama lol...just conversation

 

[F. Stein]

So flowchart question.

I punted Falco with Bair, he's offstage, I move to position for F-tilt. I'm getting really good at F-tilting illusion I just hit A when I hear the Ding and it's worked with my speed. Say he doesn't Side-B after a certain height. What is the most optimal thing to do at this point? Should I turn around and try to tipman firefox, wave dash and take ledge or like wavedash off with falling Uair?

I know what I've done but I want to break badhabits because just learning to sit and F-tilt everytime has been very rewarding.

 

[Coastward]

So flowchart question.

I punted Falco with Bair, he's offstage, I move to position for F-tilt. I'm getting really good at F-tilting illusion I just hit A when I hear the Ding and it's worked with my speed. Say he doesn't Side-B after a certain height. What is the most optimal thing to do at this point? Should I turn around and try to tipman firefox, wave dash and take ledge or like wavedash off with falling Uair?

I know what I've done but I want to break badhabits because just learning to sit and F-tilt everytime has been very rewarding.

shoulda taken ledge to begin with tbh.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

spider_sense taking a set off Blea tho. Good **** papi

wow that's amazing! i need to learn the luigi match-up again...

shoulda taken ledge to begin with tbh.

Yeah, ledge-hop up-air even covers side-b at various heights either above or on ledge. Truly an optimal option.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Finally remembered my password for this account and just finished up reading the past couple months of posts. Missed ya guys especially Ace and Joe!

Welcome back bizzy!! Looking forward to sns2.

Good stuff Jason! Beating blea is no joke.

Swagic a G. Vice sighting? Are you sure? I love that dude, his combo videos are still my favorites of all time. DEVOUR!!!

 

[Mr.Cochise]

Playing against Luigi is fun, the Marth killer is really nice for edgeguarding him.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Nice to see you around again Bizz

Also I finally got to mod something for once haha. You're welcome Bizz.

 

[spider_sense]

Unfortunately Blea didn't go Luigi at all. I'm kinda salty about the win, but I'm guessing he just wants to hone his Marth for bad matchups maybe. He did beat me in Loser's Final 2-3, I went Sheik on the last two games, because I wasn't feeling Ganon all that much. Didn't do too bad, since it was my day 1 Sheik lol. Btw -ACE- Left my setup in your car homie.

 

[-ACE-]

spider_sense well come and get it lol

Didn't know Blea went Marth. Still, good stuff.

 

[-ACE-]

F. Stein If Falco is high enough so that his double jump would put him well above stage level at max height (maybe Ganon's knee level), you can often do an early reverse uair to cover that height, and if he quickly tries to snap to ledge with an early side-b, fastfall the uair. It's easy to react to since you just hit down. Then if he up-b's instead, if he's below ledge you can just low ftilt. But if he's right at stage level and you don't know whether he'll go straight to ledge or go high, it's often best to grab ledge and immediately ledgehop uair onto stage. But I believe the 45 degree angle up and towards the stage can often avoid that. There are times when you can edgeguard him similarly to sheik.... After you take ledge do a regular stand-up at the perfect time and you'll edgehog the straight-to-ledge attempt, and be able to grab his side-b landing lag. This is where grab punishes come into play (cg, option select based on DI) so you can finish the stock.

 

[Swagic]

Welcome back bizzy!! Looking forward to sns2.

Good stuff Jason! Beating blea is no joke.

Swagic a G. Vice sighting? Are you sure? I love that dude, his combo videos are still my favorites of all time. DEVOUR!!!

That one was a couple months ago now. If only he didn't have to retire.

 

[-ACE-]

I drove by little rock, AR to play G. Vice once (I bought my truck in Nebraska so it was on the way to my destination, Miami). Too bad he only had a laggy HDTV lol. Zane is a cool ****ing guy.

 

[Swagic]

Can we get a quick summary of the different styles of Ganon there are?

There's the Bizz style, the Florida Ganon, the Canadian Ganon (play Ganon like Falcon), cg Ganon... A lot of variety here. I don't really know how to classify the Midwest Ganon though.

 

[-ACE-]

I'm just over here wondering what pichu players toph, hugs, and laudandus have been losing to LMAO

 

[ForTheLulz]

First n0ne, now bizz, as a new player if someone else comes by I'll prob kreygasm irl

 

[tm]

So flowchart question.

I punted Falco with Bair, he's offstage, I move to position for F-tilt. I'm getting really good at F-tilting illusion I just hit A when I hear the Ding and it's worked with my speed.

wow really? nice reactions. I struggle to hit even fox sideB with ftilt... always have had to jab instead. Maybe it's more doable than I think and time to train up

 

[-ACE-]

Maybe it's more doable than I think and time to train up

It is! You can also react to their side-b at head level with high ftilt when they get familiar with your jab and try to vertically outspace it.

Just like he said, hit A quickly when you hear the "ding", it always works! Been doing it for years.

 

[F. Stein]

I have Ian to thank for that one, he spent like an hour telling me to stop doing what i was doing (which was getting bodied lol) and just F-tilt so I could learn a bit. Thanks for the detailed answers, i guess ledgehop Uair is something i gotta get real comfy with now.

 

[Divinokage]

Im trying a little challenge online where you have to combo all 5 aerials as Ganondorf but I can't seem to do it. I come close to 4 hits but the Fair is a little far. It has to be training mode combos in 1P. Doing that I found something stupid where you can reverse upair the guy on landing same way you get the untechable downair and you get a reset, it might be even more worth. lol

You guys should try that challenge, it doesn't seem possible atm. I even tried staling my moves and hitting the moves later to get the combo.

 

[-ACE-]

Divinokage yeah man that seems impossible without your opponent having TAS SDI. Does it have to be on FD? Lol

Bizzarro Flame I don't know if you saw this when reading the old posts or not, but I made a little video about grab punishes on fox/falco/falcon, highlighting the "uthrow trap" on platform stages that basically guarantees your opponent offstage. I just winged it and the vid got cut short but it gets the point across. Something to mess with.

https://youtu.be/-rlsmHbh6mE