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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

tm

tm

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NWOH
-ACE- said:
tm tm once you're good?!?! Lol too late. You could already do a good sheik or peach guide.
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Yeah I actually could do a sheik guide.
get Ian on that peach one, I'm actually not too experienced at it. Every other MU there are way more qualified players than me
 
Diosama

Diosama

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Little difficult to get Marth practice since we have none on our PR. Do you play with Morgan very often Kage? I think he's the best you can go to for Marth practice, especially since his Ganon is still alright.
 
Diosama

Diosama

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Oh yeah, vs spacies, dair at 0% > 2 hit upsmash is a thing if they don't DI the dair. Got it a few times at my school's weekly against some fox players, not sure if it's guaranteed, but I thought I'd share it if anyone wants to test it out.
 
Divinokage

Divinokage

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Aug 6, 2006
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Nobility said:
Little difficult to get Marth practice since we have none on our PR. Do you play with Morgan very often Kage? I think he's the best you can go to for Marth practice, especially since his Ganon is still alright.
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Well last weekly I 4 stocked him so.. not sure if i can get the proper practice lol.
 
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PseudoTurtle

PseudoTurtle

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It's hard to find good marth practice vs ganon when you're at that level. Dart! is so far the best marth vs ganon that I've played, aside from Colbol maybe.

But I'm gonna have to agree with Coast, yea it's not a free matchup and difficult when Marth plays on point, but still winnable. I played the moon a couple weeks ago. Just friendlies. He's surprisingly acquainted with the ganon matchup, but Colbol and dart are probably better at it IMO. Moon is just really good lol

I could tell he was outsmarting me, but proper decision making and reactions could beat him. I've yet to see a marth that ganon simply cannot beat by just outplaying them.
 
spider_sense

spider_sense

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PseudoTurtle said:
It's hard to find good marth practice vs ganon when you're at that level. Dart! is so far the best marth vs ganon that I've played, aside from Colbol maybe.

But I'm gonna have to agree with Coast, yea it's not a free matchup and difficult when Marth plays on point, but still winnable. I played the moon a couple weeks ago. Just friendlies. He's surprisingly acquainted with the ganon matchup, but Colbol and dart are probably better at it IMO. Moon is just really good lol

I could tell he was outsmarting me, but proper decision making and reactions could beat him. I've yet to see a marth that ganon simply cannot beat by just outplaying them.
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Joe what happened to your brazzers avatar? The mods giving you ****? I'll body them if they hassle you like that again.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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It's funny that "YP" is acceptable because it "doesn't" stand for YouPorn (who ya foolin?). Guess you should have been practicing utilts instead of becoming the ledge God lmao
 
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B

Bwmat

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Joined
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Messages
665
Swagic said:
I can see who's viewing... Huh. Weird. So Ganon question- is it better to just sand still or DD back and forth if you have the lead and center stage trying to bait an approach?
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Sometimes I just stand there until they approach, and try to ps their attack and grab them lol. It's hilarious when it works.
 
Swagic

Swagic

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So, let's take Yoshi's vs Falcon. Ganon's **** DD is still the better option? Why? Is reacting to an approach (from anyone) and jabbing or jumping that bad of an option? What about a WD back?

I get vs Marth or someone with the range that can get you farther than you expect, but what about against a Falco, with his almost exclusively horizontal approach?

I'm just trying to figure out why something is a better option. Unless someone's got pivots down to a science *cough wanted (I think?) cough* it seems like just staying still would be easier to react to approaches with.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

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Dash dance doesn't cause you to forfeit any options aside from jab (must pivot jab), and you have the speed of Ganon's dash on tap with a one frame turnaround, which is easier out of a dd than back-dashing out of a stand still imo. While dash dancing, your actual position is more ambiguous, and thus makes it harder for them to perfectly space an approach (which is what they want to do, as it drastically reduces Ganons already iffy OoS options even with shield DI). Think about what you do while standing when falcon fakes an approach. You either ftilt or jab usually, both of which are easily punished. WD back would have to be done more preemptively, as a read, where you can retreating bair out of a dd on reaction (example... there are many options), with the only negative aspect being giving up some space. Dash dancing is great. You can be almost fp in one direction while waiting for maximum dd distance on the other and cover ground quickly while maintaining all options from dash. You can also vary the speed/distance as you please. Dash is great on platforms too. But the biggest thing is they don't have a solid read on your positioning and what your options are. Being a slow Ganon gives your opponent confidence too. Useful tech skill is intimidating.
 
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Swagic

Swagic

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Other question- you've lost center stage, you're behind. Ganon's approaches aren't exactly famous for being good, so what do you do? Retreat to ledge then ledgedash-roll? Go top platform for immediate drop through aerial? Try to force an approach? Bait something? What about just waiting for a mistake?

I'm guessing it's very stage/mu deoendent, because obviously drop-through aerials aren't an option on FD, and being above Marth is never a good idea. But are there general principles to follow?
 
Swagic

Swagic

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For some reason, it says three people are reading the thread, but lists only me. Interesting.

Anyways, also on the DD topic, what about a quick back dash on reaction? Or is simply relying on reaction just a bad idea? And why?
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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Standing IS a good bait, but i'll never say it's better. I like to stand and just as they react, backjump NIL instant drop fair or uair (or instant dash away, shield drop bair) for example
 
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-ACE-

-ACE-

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Retreating to ledge is usually fine. They'll give you an option to get up safely at some point. Just think if they're expecting a ledgedash, ledgehop. If they expect ledgehop, INV grab or jab them (or yeah ledgedash roll). And RLD fair (or runoff dj bair onstage) if they're trying to react to both. ((generally))
 
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F. Stein

F. Stein

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What is Kage's Ninja Warrior training? I feel like I should be doing that just based on the title lol.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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F. Stein said:
What is Kage's Ninja Warrior training? I feel like I should be doing that just based on the title lol.
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Kage has the strength but those guys can probably hang one handed from a bar for 15 minutes. You have to be sheik, fox, or falcon to compete in that show lol
 
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B

Bwmat

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Retreating to ledge serves me well, he had so many options, and they are fast enough to be hard to react to. Sometimes I go ledge stall for a bit to calm down and think about what I should be doing.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

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Swagic said:
I need to get that perfect ledgestall down.
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Really good for edgeguarding sheik. Under 100%, stand up INV when they up-b. You can react to anything. Above 100%, you gotta go earlier, but same thing. It edgehogs them if they don't land on stage.
 
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ForTheLulz

ForTheLulz

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Apr 12, 2015
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-ACE- said:
Retreating to ledge is usually fine. They'll give you an option to get up safely at some point. Just think if they're expecting a ledgedash, ledgehop. If they expect ledgehop, INV grab or jab them (or yeah ledgedash roll). And RLD fair (or runoff dj bair onstage) if they're trying to react to both. ((generally))
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Do you have a thread for the NIL instant drop frame data? I'd like to look into that.
 
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