Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[-ACE-]

Damn that controller looks like a rat tried to get the joystick out without harming it.

 

[Coastward]

man school sucks, cant play smash at all with all this hw and studying i gotta do. feel like im falling behind

 

[RedmanSSBM]

I have only been playing at tournaments for the most part and I play friendlies like once a week now. I don't practice by myself anymore yet I feel like I'm still getting little things here and there each time I play. I know I'm improving cause I remember a habit or thing I would mess up several month ago which is now something that I've completely fixed or it's become a natural reaction to me (like jabbing spacie side-b on reaction).

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Anyone ever thought of using the c0ck blast hitbox of up smash to punish laggy ****? Send them back off stage, comes out pretty fast, etc.

Maybe to punish marth / falcon / ganon up-b, samus missed grab. Think this would be possible? I think it's a stronger attack than fair, but I could be wrong.

 

[Oldiz]

The upsmash is pretty short-range though, down smash got huge combo potential but is rather risky. Might even try down angled fsmash, I believe it has a better angle than regular. I play PAL so fair has rather weak knockback.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

The upsmash is pretty short-range though, down smash got huge combo potential but is rather risky. Might even try down angled fsmash, I believe it has a better angle than regular. I play PAL so fair has rather weak knockback.

If you're going for the combo, might as well just dair to fair though. No reason to dsmash. I'm talking about that % where dair doesn't lead into fair.

Pretty sure upsmash comes out faster than fsmash. And yea the c0ck hitbox is pretty small, which is why I named the moves with long lag, ie moves that give you sufficient time to set it up.

 

[VegiLohrd]

Finally got my setup back! I just spent 30 minutes practicing wavelands on Dreamland and it felt so good.

 

[Bwmat]

**** fox. And falco.

But mostly fox.

Can't deal with his OP **** lately, like there's this one newer player who's gotten good lately, and his fox is insanely technical, and when I'm playing all I can think it's that this matchup is hopeless for ganondorf.

Like, I win sometimes, but when he's getting his ****, there's nothing I can do, I get touched and I die. He'll get a shine off, and waveshine me across the stage and combo it into a shine spike.

Falcon does a little better, but not that much.

And then i'm reduced to fox dittos, which i' m not even good at.

Sometimes I really wish the spacies didn't exist, even though I play one.

Well, that's enough ******** for one post.

In other news, almost lost in dubs to that 15yo teaming with a level 9 ganon. Lol. Beat him in grands. Level 9 ganon is surprisingly not that terrible in doubles, though once he's isolated its gg, but that kid is godly at 2v1s

 

[Oldiz]

If you're going for the combo, might as well just dair to fair though. No reason to dsmash. I'm talking about that % where dair doesn't lead into fair.

Pretty sure upsmash comes out faster than fsmash. And yea the c0ck hitbox is pretty small, which is why I named the moves with long lag, ie moves that give you sufficient time to set it up.

If you have time to position yourself upsmash is probably your strongest option, but I think fsmash is faster than running up then do an upsmash. Downb might be a good punish too considering the range and knockback, but i think it's possible to amsah tech it.

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

**** fox. And falco.

But mostly fox.

Can't deal with his OP **** lately, like there's this one newer player who's gotten good lately, and his fox is insanely technical, and when I'm playing all I can think it's that this matchup is hopeless for ganondorf.

Like, I win sometimes, but when he's getting his ****, there's nothing I can do, I get touched and I die. He'll get a shine off, and waveshine me across the stage and combo it into a shine spike.

Falcon does a little better, but not that much.

And then i'm reduced to fox dittos, which i' m not even good at.

Sometimes I really wish the spacies didn't exist, even though I play one.

Well, that's enough ******** for one post.

In other news, almost lost in dubs to that 15yo teaming with a level 9 ganon. Lol. Beat him in grands. Level 9 ganon is surprisingly not that terrible in doubles, though once he's isolated its gg, but that kid is godly at 2v1s

SDI shines dawg, and stay moving

 

[-ACE-]

At top play fox's shine is usually death. Your goal is to fully respect the shine by trying your hardest not to get hit by it... Neutral game and intelligent shielding.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Letely I've been theorycrafting about optimizing my Ganon and getting more out of my moves and kill options. One thing in particular that I have been thinking about recently is going for the Wizard's Foot spike in certain edgeguarding situations in order to secure that quick kill and to also be as safe as possible with it. I know you can get a dair to down-b spike combo at the edge if they roll in that way from a tech, but that only happens once in a blue moon and usually against mid-level players who try to mix up but don't DI the stomp.

I recently saw Bl@ckChris use WF to spike a SoPo recovering, and that shortened the edgeguarding process by a lot and it didn't look like it was hard to position. My only qualm with the WF spike is that it's such a world of difference between hitting it and missing it. If it hits, you get an early kill at times and you can make it back with no trouble. But if it misses, it's usually the reversal and you end up losing the stock. Part of me really feels like taking risks like these is necessary in order to get momentum in the match and get into the opponent's head. People rarely ever expect the WF spike and when they get hit by it it usually raddles them a bit. Of course, doing the WF off stage and away from the stage can put you in pretty hairy situations if it misses, but maybe if you angle the WF in a way so that you land on stage with it and you can ASDI down, it's not so much of a risk? There's not much leniency on the range that WF will provide you in that case, and the timing for it is much stricter, but it is a certain possibility that I think someone who has mastered Ganon should try to implement more.

I know for sure that an off stage/away from stage WF is much safer when you trade with a move, so that you don't have all of that lag, but it's hard to get that move to trade because of how not-disjointed it is. I'm fairly certain it trades with Marth's up-b most of the time, and it only trade's with Fox's charging up-b like half of the time... so idk. I'd have to experiment more with it before I would think to use it more in tournament. If I am gonna use it in tournament, it would be when I am up a stock for safety, but I could also use it as a hail-Mary when I'm down a bunch and it looks like I just can't come back unless I take some serious risks.

--

There's also some other edgeguarding things I want to implement as well that help me get the quick kill and are a bit risky, such as wavedashing off the ledge and upairing into another upair, or doing any combination of moves off stage like that. I keep trying to play it safe and stay on stage when I'm playing friendlies or tournament, and I rarely go for risks cause I miss them a lot and I feel like it's not worth it, but maybe I really just need to practice the risky **** more and see what my opponent can do about it more.

I also think I need to change my philosophy about spamming moves in neutral with Ganon. Bl@ckChris spams bair in neutral a lot, but he does it intelligently, and even when he gets a hit he just keeps using that bair. It's odd for me because it's just out of my philosophy to use the same move over and over unless I'm trying to be lazy/disrespectful to my opponent. I usually don't try to apply it in an intelligent way, but maybe as I continue to play I should just do it more often and not feel like I've "cheaped out my opponent". It's Ganondorf for crying out loud, if you need to spam a move to get somewhere, then do it.

I also think you should not commit with a fair in neutral unless you have a read on them jumping or you are prepared for it. Similar to how you prepare for Falco to laser you, and you powershield it, there is usually a pattern of movement or some cue that Falco gives off that indicates he's going to laser, or maybe you just simply react to it. If you get a read on someone jumping in neutral, similar to when a Falco decides to laser, that's when I think fair in neutral is the strongest. Otherwise, instant bairs and upairs that hit opponents on the ground and really safe cause you can be mobile with those moves, drift with them, space them, and have no lag upon landing. Jab is more like a reaction to the opponent trying to run in on you.

Another thing I could work on more is using platforms to my advantage and using it as a bait. It's entirely possible to bair after wavelanding off a platform and have it auto-cancel, again meaning that it allows you to be mobile and flexible with your attack options. Upair does this as well.

I'm just wondering if I should really try to be on the platforms more than being on the ground, and practice more moving around platforms.

That's all for the rambling at the moment.

 

[-ACE-]

Bair is great to spam bc of auto cancel. Good bait.

You are so correct about WF spike. Practice it in friendlies like crazy. I use it in tournament all the time. When people call it disrespect or styling, I think "lol standard". It's a great tool. I definitely condone doing risky **** in friendlies, so you'll be good at those sorts of things. Using wf spike sorta goes along with that way of thinking.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Yo nice stuff to spider sense in his games against westballz's falcon and fox not dropping a single game.

http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp/v/22476144?t=6h53m21s

 

[-ACE-]

Hell yeah. I haven't even talked to Jason about the tourney yet lol

 

[-ACE-]

Wow blur. Jason is the only Ganon that shield drops? LMFAO

 

[RedmanSSBM]

I love how people in the chat were like "WHO IS THIS GUY?!" The power of being unknown. Ganons need to get more done at nationals and mot play each other in tournament rofl.

I think I'm actually gonna try to work more on me traversing platforms using the running shield drop. I think if you do is frame perfectly and bair immediately, it autocancels.

Also damn Spider Sense just looks mad clean in those vods. He hardly ever made bad decisions or really made any mistakes except for like one ledge-dash SD. Good stuff.

 

[-ACE-]

Also damn Spider Sense just looks mad clean in those vods. He hardly ever made bad decisions or really made any mistakes except for like one ledge-dash SD. Good stuff.

That constant Ace practice.

 

[-ACE-]

Falcon DI Protip:

Survival DI isn't safe on SHFFL'd knee until 70%. Jason lost his first stock in the first game to a double knee. He got kneed at 38% and survival DI'd. Had he held up and away (sometimes slightly above or sliiiiiightly below the up and away notch is best), he would have been safe from dashjump knee/uair/dj uair, and had extra recovery options (in similar situations, using the popular down and away anti-combo DI can put you offstage with no choice but to recover low, if you can) from being higher up.

Always try to have a strong mental awareness of your damage% (and how it would affect your DI) as well as your location on stage (relative to the edge and plats).

 

[tm]

Did you guys know you could airdodge to stage after walljumptech bair? I just found out after trying yesterday.
Tired of getting edgeguarded by Sheik's dsmash (I always tech then run into the other hitboxes) and not getting precisely the walltech recovery that I want, so I grinded some stuff out yesterday, namely
- walltech -> fastfall -> sweetspot upB (fastest way to get to ledge after a tech)
- walltech -> wait a little bit -> upB (hits sheik dsmash - but avoid when it doesn't knock her down)
- walltech jump -> upB (standard, most distance and hits just about everything except sheik dsmash. countered by spotdodge if their attack had very little lag. also try platform canceling it)
- walltech jump -> bair (another amazing option. Super good at low % when upB doesn't knock down and will give them a free KO on you. If they try to run back in and punish, you can get them with the upB right after. Otherwise you can airdodge onstage or fastfall and sweetspot upB to ledge)

There are other variations but one of these 4 should be suitable for any situation. I recommend everyone practice these and be comfortable doing any of them on command

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Did you guys know you could airdodge to stage after walljumptech bair? I just found out after trying yesterday.
Tired of getting edgeguarded by Sheik's dsmash (I always tech then run into the other hitboxes) and not getting precisely the walltech recovery that I want, so I grinded some stuff out yesterday, namely
- walltech -> fastfall -> sweetspot upB (fastest way to get to ledge after a tech)
- walltech -> wait a little bit -> upB (hits sheik dsmash - but avoid when it doesn't knock her down)
- walltech jump -> upB (standard, most distance and hits just about everything except sheik dsmash. countered by spotdodge if their attack had very little lag. also try platform canceling it)
- walltech jump -> bair (another amazing option. Super good at low % when upB doesn't knock down and will give them a free KO on you. If they try to run back in and punish, you can get them with the upB right after. Otherwise you can airdodge onstage or fastfall and sweetspot upB to ledge)

There are other variations but one of these 4 should be suitable for any situation. I recommend everyone practice these and be comfortable doing any of them on command

Yeah I actually messed around with walljump bair to airdodge on stage, but by golly do you have to be on point to get that and not SD. The bair has to come out as soon as possible, that way the airdodge isn't too hard to time. It's super doable, but it's really risky, though I should probably try to practice it more as it is rather useful.

I should also try to do the walltech to FF up-b a bit as well, as that sounds kind of useful, but it also sounds like you could just get hit again.

 

[-ACE-]

I've never done it, seen it done though. Looks like an Ace SD in the making lmao

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Okay, so in my personal opinion I'm going to rank the stages based off of the potential of optimizing platform navigation.

Dreamland = Battlefield > Yoshi's Story > Fountain of Dreams > Pokemon Stadium >> Final Destination.

Both Dreamland and Battlefield end up balancing out pretty well because of the full hop no impact land being really effective on both stages. On BF, you can SH instant bair into a DJ instant bair and land on a side-platform and it will auto cancel. If you're fast enough, you can even mix this up with upairs and it will still auto-cancel. I tried hitting a cpu to see if it would still autocancel and it did. You can auto-cancel from a bair off the side platform if you waveland off of it, but not if you shield drop. Upair just barely auto-cancel but it pretty much has to be frame perfect. Thanks to the higher platforms on Dreamland, both bair and upair have larger auto-cancel windows when wavelanded off, and bair can be auto-canceled when you shield drop through a platform.

One thing to note about Dreamland is if you do the full hop no impact land on the platforms, it's a really tight window in order to waveland. You basically want to hit L or R once your legs are coming through the platform when you're rising up. You snap to the platforms super easily this way, not only being high up but getting away from your opponent on the ground will prove to be useful here.

So basically, Battlefield is auto-cancel city, and Dreamland is side-platform heaven. If a Ganon can fully optimize these platforms movements and auto-cancels on these stages, they are going to be Ganon's best stages, no questions asked.

Yoshi's is a little less since there aren't many windows for no impact land and wavelanding is almost unecessary on that stage just cause of how small it is. Still, it's got nice auto-cancel windows for doing aerials up to the side platforms. so pressure there can be optimized more.

Fountain has some tricks but it depends on the height of the platforms when they're at certain heights. You can figure these heights out by practicing on the stage, as some heights let you no impact land with a short hop, so it's nice to keep in mind in case you want to get across certain parts.

Pokemon Stadium's neutral transformation doesn't have much special to id beside auto-canceling stuff I've mentioned before. Thhe only notable but maybe not obvious wavelanding situation on that stage is during the Rock transformation, the platforms in the middle, if you FH backflip to the lower one, you no impact land and can waveland to the other side quickly, someone you opponent not expecting.

Obviously Final Destination doesn't have any platforms lol.

I think just for the heck of it I'll provide my list of stages based on how comfortable I am playing on it vs most opponents:

Yoshi's Story > Dreamland > Final Destination > Battlefield = Fountain of Dreams >> Pokemon Stadium

I know, it's weird that I'm more comfortable on FD than I am on BF, but that's what I feel like is the case lately when I play in friendlies and in tournament. Of course it's matchup dependent, but I feel more comfortable in general on FD.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Wow blur. Jason is the only Ganon that shield drops? LMFAO

Lol did you see the part where the girl talks about how she would never pick up ganon? I KNEW girls hated ganon.

 

[-ACE-]

All she wanted was a falcon punch. Lol

*Ganon taunt*

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

Okay, so in my personal opinion I'm going to rank the stages based off of the potential of optimizing platform navigation.

Dreamland = Battlefield > Yoshi's Story > Fountain of Dreams > Pokemon Stadium >> Final Destination.

Both Dreamland and Battlefield end up balancing out pretty well because of the full hop no impact land being really effective on both stages. On BF, you can SH instant bair into a DJ instant bair and land on a side-platform and it will auto cancel. If you're fast enough, you can even mix this up with upairs and it will still auto-cancel. I tried hitting a cpu to see if it would still autocancel and it did. You can auto-cancel from a bair off the side platform if you waveland off of it, but not if you shield drop. Upair just barely auto-cancel but it pretty much has to be frame perfect. Thanks to the higher platforms on Dreamland, both bair and upair have larger auto-cancel windows when wavelanded off, and bair can be auto-canceled when you shield drop through a platform.

One thing to note about Dreamland is if you do the full hop no impact land on the platforms, it's a really tight window in order to waveland. You basically want to hit L or R once your legs are coming through the platform when you're rising up. You snap to the platforms super easily this way, not only being high up but getting away from your opponent on the ground will prove to be useful here.

So basically, Battlefield is auto-cancel city, and Dreamland is side-platform heaven. If a Ganon can fully optimize these platforms movements and auto-cancels on these stages, they are going to be Ganon's best stages, no questions asked.

Yoshi's is a little less since there aren't many windows for no impact land and wavelanding is almost unecessary on that stage just cause of how small it is. Still, it's got nice auto-cancel windows for doing aerials up to the side platforms. so pressure there can be optimized more.

Fountain has some tricks but it depends on the height of the platforms when they're at certain heights. You can figure these heights out by practicing on the stage, as some heights let you no impact land with a short hop, so it's nice to keep in mind in case you want to get across certain parts.

Pokemon Stadium's neutral transformation doesn't have much special to id beside auto-canceling stuff I've mentioned before. Thhe only notable but maybe not obvious wavelanding situation on that stage is during the Rock transformation, the platforms in the middle, if you FH backflip to the lower one, you no impact land and can waveland to the other side quickly, someone you opponent not expecting.

Obviously Final Destination doesn't have any platforms lol.

I think just for the heck of it I'll provide my list of stages based on how comfortable I am playing on it vs most opponents:

Yoshi's Story > Dreamland > Final Destination > Battlefield = Fountain of Dreams >> Pokemon Stadium

I know, it's weird that I'm more comfortable on FD than I am on BF, but that's what I feel like is the case lately when I play in friendlies and in tournament. Of course it's matchup dependent, but I feel more comfortable in general on FD.

Also on the house on the fire transformation and the lower plat on the grass transformation, if you FH backflip it NIL

 

[Oldiz]

Informative wall of text

A good read, but I believe BF is strictly better than Dreamland. Dreamland is very limiting when it comes to autocancel windows, as you have to DJ to utilize them when going up on platforms. It's also possible to DJ to the top platform after wavelanding off the side platforms on BF, though it's a tight window. Therefore you have the exact same movement options on both stages, but BF is smaller which benefits ganon a lot. The ledges doesn't really mess with ganons recovery that much in comparison to other characters. Therefore BF might even tie with Yoshis as ganons best stage.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

A good read, but I believe BF is strictly better than Dreamland. Dreamland is very limiting when it comes to autocancel windows, as you have to DJ to utilize them when going up on platforms. It's also possible to DJ to the top platform after wavelanding off the side platforms on BF, though it's a tight window. Therefore you have the exact same movement options on both stages, but BF is smaller which benefits ganon a lot. The ledges doesn't really mess with ganons recovery that much in comparison to other characters. Therefore BF might even tie with Yoshis as ganons best stage.

The main benefit to being able to wl dj to the top platform of bf is that you NIL regardless of the direction you're facing (although the front facing dj is faster) so you can act immediately from it. This opens up so many viable options.

One thing I'm looking at is how you can change directions up there by NIL dash opposite direction you're facing. From there shield drop. You can go straight down, dj out of it to get any length wl you want on the top platform, or dj to a side platform. And when you dj to a side platform, you get a bunch of other options including wl dj NIL back to top platform.

It's also much easier to loop (waveland along all the platforms) on bf than any other stage. And as I discussed, you can mix in NIL shield drop dj wl into your loop so you basically have a lot of mixups.

No stage comes close to BF in terms of mobility.

 

[-ACE-]

I swear, if you could NIL on yoshi's plats, that stage would be unbeatable. You can ledgehop, pivot, and then backwards fulljump and NIL but that's it.

BF is probably the best overall with the ability to NIL on a platform almost anywhere.

DL64 is a neutral game playground. Remember how bad Ganon's neutral is. You have to forget about Ganon living forever here because offstage still means death. Great for chaingrabbing and platform camping though.

FoD you can NIL on those baby plats with backwards shorthop. When you backwards jump Ganon has krazy glue on his boots lol.

 

[Superspright]

FoD is a hidden gem for Ganondorf. He can edge-cancel all of the platforms by wavelanding off one side, then using an aerial to the other side (the timing is strict). He can also edge-cancel out of his ledge-jump when the platforms aren't at their lowest as long as you DI to the stage. This is a cute trick that works sometimes. He can waveland every platform with ease, and with good practice he can probably play tighter on this stage than any other--also platform camping is harder here. You need to do instant jump aerials to land fair/dair/bair when the platforms are about head height. The only thing that makes this stage not the best is the fact that the platforms sometimes drop away entirely, and Falco/Peach have a much easier time on this stage than Ganondorf does. Falco's SH is like designed for it, and Peach can just dsmash your face in.

BF/DL you can waveland off of the platform with an aerial and auto-cancel as long as you do it immediately. This I find is very good for walling when done right. I like to immediately dash attack out of it to cover a lot of approaching options.

Yoshi's is amazing because it's so tight, and the platforms can be traversed insanely fast if you're good at it. You can hit the top platform without committing to an aerial jump so you can shark em further. Randall is a godsend when used properly, and wall-techs for days. No one really lives very long here. Three fairs and you're gone.

My map tiers list:
BF/Yoshi's (God Tier)
DL/FoD (Good movement options/good survivability (doesn't die off top as easily)
FD (Too flat, and basically negates all of his good options and makes him even clunkier)
PS (Transformations usually **** me)

As an aside to this wonderful discussion I've been working on pivot ftilt out of dash dance. I am still trying to figure this thing out. Maybe I am insane, but I feel there is a slight gap between upsmash and fsmash that allows you to ftilt low or hi if you hit that corner + time the pivot together you get an ftilt. Is this a viable method, or am I delusional? I need to learn this, because I am sick of losing because I lack good grounded options to counter cheeky cross-ups and feints.

I was trying to time it, but it feels awful to time. I was also trying to finesse my directional stick into the right spot+time it, but it was a labor to do, but I felt like it may become something I can just feel out eventually. Does anyone have any reliable methods? Or even unreliable methods that they know work, but just can't execute? I'm willing to try anything at this point. I'd rather not give up Ganondorf, but I feel like I'm being held back not by the character but by my inability to execute some fundamental, and basic things that I feel are necessary for him to excel and win.

 

[-ACE-]

Still working on pivots.... Might go play with porkchops or jason today and **** with gravy's method some more.

 

[tauKhan]

Has anyone here put any real effort in z-psing? After switching back to sheik for certaing mus, I'm starting to get results with the tech and I've not even practiced it a lot yet. I really believe you can use it to shut a big part of falco's laser game. Ganon also has godlike shield for it I think and you guys seem keen on implementing all the possible techs, it might be worthwhile for you.

 

[-ACE-]

I've tried it. I was doing it wrong I think. I'm fairly happy with my ability to PS currently with the normal method. There are other things I'll need to work on first but I'll end up giving it another try.

 

[tauKhan]

Yeah, ganon has pretty good normal ps as well. Z-psing sure is a lot of work to incorporate, since you basically have to learn setup(s) for it, the input itself, playing neutral while you have a held down and when to switch modes. I still think it's possible to do most of that subconsciously, though I'm not quite at that level yet. I guess you really have to hate falco (like I do) to work on z-ps, as o.w. it might be hard to justify considering the returns.

As a side note, I've noticed that Z-psing is very good vs missiles, as it's both super easy to z-ps them, and also safer than normal ps since in the case you mistime, you usually block the missile instead of getting hit. I guess Samus isn't really a problem for you though.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

I've been wanting to try to use Z-PS for PSing physical attacks, since the frame window to do that is 4 frames instead of 2 for projectiles. It would be sick nasty if I got into the habit of just running up to a Fox and Z-PSing his nair and jabbing immediately or even just grabbing it. I can only imagine the potential of powershielding physical attacks on purpose and doing a move right after. It could be thought of the same way as powershielding Falco's lasers.

Just think about it: Powershield to instant jab. ****ing nasty.

 

[tauKhan]

Z-PS for physical attacks isn't good unfortunately, because shield size determines shield stun, and you get a lot of stun with z-size shield. Unlike psing projectiles, psing physical attacks doesn't negate shield stun, it just lets you cancel unshield animation into attacks.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Kage vs the moon
Kage could have marth killer'd so many times there and gotten the stock. Anyone curious on how to edge guard marth, read the edge guarding thread.

vs Drephen
vs Westballz
Up air opportunities were missed.

 

[-ACE-]

More vids hype

I now have Ganon's taunt as my text message notification sound. I crack up every time I hear it lmao, too OP.

Here's all of Ganon's sounds in a zip file.

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah PseudoTurtle the marth killer opportunities are real, lol.

 

[Superspright]

That yes, but why wasn't he using invincible up-air on ledge to deal with his double-jump recovery? No one can really challenge the invincible ledge-drop uair. I use it against Marth all the time and it just doesn't fail. Even using it the cheap way and getting back on stage can tipman recoveries.

If you guys are such powershield addicts learn how to use it out of a pivot. I've said it numerous times, but if you're dashing away from the opponent you get a nice ~90 degree arc that covers your head to your knee (there is a running shield as well as a standing/crouching). The timing window won't be as strict albeit your momentum may confound the effort itself. I use it like a pseudo-reflector when I am practiced enough. I don't know the numbers but if you normally have 2-3 frames to ps a projectile (I add 1 frame for the distance from his shield to him). Then you probably get 4-6 frames doing it the other way. Basically I feel like it's twice as easy to do it that way, but if an opponent catches on (and they will if they are smart) they will begin firing them low, and this is not a solution for that. His legs are still too long for his shield. It makes powershielding Samus' missles too easy. I can follow up off of them.