Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[tm]

Wish I had 20xx set up been lurking in the 20xx thread but feel like a complete tard reading it. Guess its one of those things I just gotta sit down with a set up and go step by step.

I noticed when ever I learn a new technique I tend to over use it till Im comfortable with its execution and my consistancy with it. Gonna try and dedicate sat on getting 20xx up and running so I can train some different things Ive had in mind.

Oh Ace I chaingrabbed a shiek in one of those vids from 0-70%. opened with a stomp but I always think of you when ever I get a chain grab on any character. Is there an option in 20xx that lets you know when your character can respond to new inputs after a throw? Something similar to the red flashing if you miss a lcancel?

Yeah there is, in the debug menu go to:
Gameplay codes -> Color Overlays. Turn them on, then set Wait (stand) to ON. Now you'll turn green when ganon is just standing, so that's the moment that you can enter your next input. The other ones are useful as well (shield stun and tumble especially)

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

Yeah there is, in the debug menu go to:
Gameplay codes -> Color Overlays. Turn them on, then set Wait (stand) to ON. Now you'll turn green when ganon is just standing, so that's the moment that you can enter your next input. The other ones are useful as well (shield stun and tumble especially)

Would that let me go to specific frames of a move and have it activate at that frame? Like lets say during dthrow having it flash on the IASA frame instead of it playing the whole animation and having it flash at standing frame 1.

 

[-ACE-]

I dunno how useful ganon ditto practice is for tournaments LOL

If I ever faced a ganon I feel may beat me in bracket I'll just go falcon or fox.

Lolololol. I know. Vodka and beer last night LOL.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Would that let me go to specific frames of a move and have it activate at that frame? Like lets say during dthrow having it flash on the IASA frame instead of it playing the whole animation and having it flash at standing frame 1.

I believe there's a way to do this, yes. You can also do the flash for hitstun for your opponent or, alternatively, you can set the character to DI the throws randomly and jump / Nair / whatever out as soon as they are able.

Have you heard of 20XX TE? Someone at your local scene probably has it and you don't even need a Wii- the hack is completely executable from a memory card and to get it, you just have to copy the files from someone who already has it on their memory card. Ez.

We actually used this version of 20XX at SMYM and had a decent amount of success. I'm an idiot for not bringing my memory card to get the files though.

I can't wait to get it because I'm going to try and grind ~20 mins a day on just chain grabbing, so I don't lose to spacies and sheik anymore.

Quick question: what's the best way to finish a chain grab on sheik to ensure a kill / edge guard scenario? Can you up smash / fsmash for a kill?

 

[-ACE-]

Fsmash on full DI. Try to do the up angled fsmash.

I fair partial DI.

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

To be fair, VT is like barely a region.



You mean Swiftbass? There's no one notable called Seabass.



He was talking mad **** about your local after too. He basically told a bunch of our players they could win it lol. You guys better be ready next time.

But no doubt, I know you guys have defended yourselves from good players before.

Lol, I've never not like 2-3 stocked that kid and I'm talking about with Ganon too, now just ICs. Lol if me and dart were there, all of NE would be getting **** on. I'm all bout that disrespect lifestyle too doe.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

I love it when trail visits the boards

 

[Coastward]

@ tm k i requested you for teams on smash.gg so you just gotta accept. are there any tournies happening in MI before big house that you know of?

 

[tm]

Would that let me go to specific frames of a move and have it activate at that frame? Like lets say during dthrow having it flash on the IASA frame instead of it playing the whole animation and having it flash at standing frame 1.

Not that I know of, but I don't think dthrow has IASA frames anyway

 

[tm]

@ tm k i requested you for teams on smash.gg so you just gotta accept. are there any tournies happening in MI before big house that you know of?

accepted bro.
There is a biweekly on the 5th and 26th in Howell.
There's also GVGP 5 on the 19th in Allendale: https://smash.gg/tournament/grand-valley-grand-prix-5/

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Lol, I've never not like 2-3 stocked that kid and I'm talking about with Ganon too, now just ICs. Lol if me and dart were there, all of NE would be getting **** on. I'm all bout that disrespect lifestyle too doe.

How long ago was the last time you played him? He used to be very inconsistent but he's really come up this last year. It wasn't like his win over kels was an accident. He's also beat people in our region that he's never beat in years like zoso and th0rn in recent months.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

How long ago was the last time you played him? He used to be very inconsistent but he's really come up this last year. It wasn't like his win over kels was an accident. He's also beat people in our region that he's never beat in years like zoso and th0rn in recent months.

Him beating kels was not an accident. Kels losing to him was.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Cry me the salt lakes. Even if players like dart were there it would be close. NE is on the come-up baby

 

[-ACE-]

Me vs Blea is on YouTube now.
@ spider_sense
http://youtu.be/T3yFwnT8uNQ?t=60m

I noticed I lost game 2 from 2 tech flubs... Accidental ledgejump instead of ledgedash. Sucks.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Blea Gelo looks absolutely terrifying to play against XD

 

[-ACE-]

Blea Gelo looks absolutely terrifying to play against XD

Take away "to play against" and I agree.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Me vs Blea is on YouTube now.
@ spider_sense
http://youtu.be/T3yFwnT8uNQ?t=60m

I noticed I lost game 2 from 2 tech flubs... Accidental ledgejump instead of ledgedash. Sucks.

This technical flub really is deemed the "tournament winner" for a good reason. Even if Ganon's is better than most, it still sucks to have it happen when you don't want it to. One thing I noticed when playing recently was that if you practice your tech enough times, you'll be able to recognize when you didn't put the right timing on your inputs at the ledge and you're about to do a ledge jump. I believe this is what Linguini did, as when he would ledge jump he would immediately hold back. It's much easier to do when you're over 100%, and often having this reaction to this mistake can help reduce the chance that you'll lose a stock for it.

Also it never hurts to just practice ledge options by yourself, or even for just 15 minutes a day. A lot of the time when people ledge dash, they do not get the full-invincibility potential of the ledge-dash and often get hit. Sadly, with Ganondorf, even if you are frame perfect on the invincibility, you become tangible to hit as soon as you are able to act out of the waveland lag. So if you want to ledge-dash jab and you keep getting hit for it, it does not work and you need to think about using it a different way. However, it is useful to just do the ledge-hop and do a jab or grab in order to have all of the invincibility (of course assuming you are frame perfect; there is very little lee-way). Make sure to be careful about hitting the A button or Z button a bit too early when you ledge-hop, if you hit it too early, you'll end up nairing just above the stage and that will cause you to land, also known as an aerial interrupt. It will eat your jab/grab input and you'll be sitting there wondering where your move went. So yeah, it's a pretty tight timing.

The key to not messing up ledge options in actual matches is to watch yourself grab the ledge and react to your legs falling down. Those 7 frames where you can't input anything can really mess you up if you're not cognizant of it. I have a habit now of refreshing my invincibility at the ledge only one time because when I grab it initially, I am not prepared to try to do a ledge-dash as soon as possible, and so the one ledge-stall is a lee-way to get me adjusted so that I can time the invincibility right. The problem with making this a habit is if your opponent reads it, you'll get hit (unless you're good at ledge-stalling and make it 100% invincible) and lose a stock for it.

It's a very common thing to do this one ledge-hop in order to be more comfortable or prepare myself for ledge-dashing on, and usually this ledge-hop/ledge-stall is a dead giveaway that you are going to ledgedash on stage. You can mix up your opponent in this situation but not doing the ledge-dash at all, but they might be covering multiple options by doing a wide-range attack that would cover ledge dash and no ledge dash, sometimes even over shooting. This is where reverse ledge-dash can come in and be a great mixup, but I feel like that is one of those techs that makes people paranoid of SDing, so they don't try to go for it and instead they just roll from the ledge, try to attack from the ledge, etc. Another thing you could do from the ledge would be you could ledge-hop and immediately run off the stage and bair, but you won't be invincible when you bair.

When you're at the ledge, you really want to create space while also not being predictable about what you are going to do. Being at the ledge really is like a complicated game of rock-paper-scissors where you have to keep your opponent guessing. So many times I see Marths and Falcons almost always try to attack from the ledge with a fair or knee and then I excpet them to do this and just retreat with a bair. They not only get hit, but they lost their double jump as well, so it's an easy edge-guard from there on.

So yeah, Ganon has a lot of options at the edge. Even if you mess up (cause humans are always prone to mistakes, they are almost inevitable in the long run) you have to have a back-up plan if your character does something you do not intend. Reacting to these situations well and having a good "back-up plan" is what can be called Flow, and is a very fundamental part of the game. I might get more into what I mean by Flow later, as this post is already pretty long-winded as is haha.

 

[spider_sense]

Take away "to play against" and I agree.

I'll check this out asap. We'll go over the luigi killer tonight. lol

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Blea Gelo looks absolutely terrifying to play against XD

Blea is a damn good player lol. I really enjoyed playing him, but he'll destroy any ganon that doesn't know much about fighting Luigi, I.e. bizzarro flame.

 

[spider_sense]

It's so funny dude, I felt like I got a tremendous boost from EVO, and I haven't been able to go to the Versus weeklies because of work. I really want to try to contest Porkchops/Zidane/Elliot and Blea. I think within the year I could be a runner up for top 3 in SFL.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Funny that you say that. As soon as I got there, its like something clicked. When I played again back in Chicago, it showed. Give it another year or so and I'm gonna be #3 in Chi.

I wonder how much you will have leveled up once you start playing again. I need to get you out to Chicago bro.

And yo no promises, but Miami this winter break isn't out of the question.

 

[-ACE-]

@ spider_sense I agree. You got this. My goal should be top 10 for now lol.

@ PseudoTurtle fuuuuck yeeeyuhh

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

I just wanna be on PR and get this RR on and Poppin

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

It's so funny dude, I felt like I got a tremendous boost from EVO, and I haven't been able to go to the Versus weeklies because of work. I really want to try to contest Porkchops/Zidane/Elliot and Blea. I think within the year I could be a runner up for top 3 in SFL.

Need to see more SS vids. You up to play tonight?

Ace that hurt watching that match with blea. I saw him wd into you with up tilt as you jumped and instantly got salty remembering him doing that to me, lol.

Also can anyone link me to a 20xx tutorial page thats the most recent? Ready to hone a few new power techs that have been lurking in ma dome.

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah I wasn't really focused game 1. He finds a way to occasionally body me like that lol.

Also @ PaperstSoapCo jason's coming to my place for a while then idk

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Dude you had game 2. Aside from those flubs you mentioned, if you had just not missed techs he wouldn't have been able to take two of your stocks and you would've had more opportunities.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Studying Melee videos and doing Ganondorf analysis later: http://www.twitch.tv/skytch

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

@ PaperstSoapCo https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2nfegc/updated_guide_usb_or_sd_loading_uachilles1515s/

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Gonna rep UNCC hard with some Ganondorf in The Melee Games crew battles tomorrow.

The stream will be www.twitch.tv/kneedeepgaming at around noon.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Yo, I tried my version of 20GX today with waveland reactions in tournament. It works decently well and the only time I messed it up was when I missed a waveland or did an fthrow instead of dthrow (THE PSEUDOTURTLE). It's super cool, and yea, there were probably better options, but this is just my weekly, so why not experiment a little.

If they DI and tech away, dair won't reach (only fair will), but you can waveland in for a grab and wait until you can get a stomp / guaranteed dsmash or something and set up for an edge guard. This is best used at low % because fair won't necessarily set up for an edge guard at these percents. It was pretty successful and it looks cool as ****.

 

[Bwmat]

I need vids of this. You're talking about following their DI/tech with a waveland, right?

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Yes. Luckily, it was recorded. Be aware it was not executed very well and I only got one regrab at most because my waveland game sucked and I kept flubbing them lol

 

[-ACE-]

I've been on the untechable stomps lately. Had a sick 0-death on a Marth 2 weeks ago that started with stomp to untechable stomp for a second pop-up. It'll only work at 0% or extremely close. Fastfallers get easy around mid 20's. Also got Blea with one via a platform in that set. Dair +dair +fair is so brutal.

 

[Bwmat]

What do you mean by untechable exactly?

 

[-ACE-]

What do you mean by untechable exactly?

When the dair hitbox hits just before, but almost exactly when he hits the ground. The hitbox duration completely overlaps his tech opportunity and he gets popped up again.

 

[-ACE-]

Old school players will remember chaddd's combo video "facial impact" started off with him stomping a falcon (uncontrolled) 7 times in a row, getting the pop-up every time. The first 2, where falcon landed in tumble, were untechable. Then he did a bunch more to show off his perfect timing and reaction to visual cues.

It's hard not to just grab, lol. This is kinda like gifcat **** lol. But actually useful, as it sorta adds 20% to your standard dair +fair combo. In a lot of instances, much better than a dair to nair combo as it's easier to follow up and it often yields platform techchases after the second pop-up (moar dairs? lol).

 

[PseudoTurtle]

untechable dair. So sexy. Yo, try this: side-b on Marth at zero into untechable dair. Free combo starter with mass %

 

[-ACE-]

I'll Czech that out.

I just noticed that when fox is at 18% and stomp is fresh, you can do a late dair (no DI) and immediately SHFFL another one and it'll be untechable. If he DI's it starts in low/mid 20's. The range ends somewhere in the low 40's, and if they DI the stomp the range increases.

This means you can stomp (no DI) to stomp (untechable, they DI fully), to stomp (untechable, made possible by lower trajectory from full DI) to fair Fox around 18-20%. Lmao. Funny to me because I could see them DI'ing the second one.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Good **** against DruggedFox @Bizzarro Flame! Shame you couldn't get the win Sheik is so dumb

 

[Coastward]

he coulda beat him tbh, needed to play a bit safer.

too many unsafe fairs and random jumps was costing him. like, a few times i literally saw him inside sheiks shield after a fair and then he just got chaingrabbed lmao.