Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Duel]

Blea is tough on FD. Lol

What the hell did he ban lol?

 

[RedmanSSBM]

What did Emilio ban in that situation? I'm not really understanding why he doesn't ban FD... what does he ban instead?

@ Coastward jitters happen cause you're not confident in playing well. If they start happening during a match then slow it down. Play patiently and defensively, wait on the angel platform, do slow breaths, focus on the match.

 

[-ACE-]

@ Coastward I'd recommend experimenting more in friendlies. You have to really try to overcome bad habits once you've identified them, and you have to force yourself to switch things up.

This could be as simple as changing fair +jab to fair + grab, roll, uair, dash away bair, fake dash away and pivot tomahawk, etc.

Any recent recorded matches??

 

[-ACE-]

Emilio HATES FoD lmao. I know he banned it.

It's possible Blea would take him there as soon as he didn't ban it for his lack of experience on that stage. Maybe he thought about that, but I don't think so. I think he just hates it lol.

 

[-ACE-]

Yooo... Nice ditto there. Glad Emilio clutched it out since he's had some Ace practice lately lol. Saw that 69% near the end and knew who would win lol

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Alright so that has to be one of the best Ganon dittos I have seen in a long time. Definitely want to analyze that set cause holy **** there was so much stuff going on in that set.

 

[-ACE-]

Any ditto between me, spider_sense, or those 2 look strikingly similar

 

[Coastward]

@ Coastward I'd recommend experimenting more in friendlies. You have to really try to overcome bad habits once you've identified them, and you have to force yourself to switch things up.

This could be as simple as changing fair +jab to fair + grab, roll, uair, dash away bair, fake dash away and pivot tomahawk, etc.

Any recent recorded matches??

i had one recorded yesterday but it was so awful and doesnt represent how well i've been playing recently. i only had the win on my mind because regional and national tournaments give me a different mindset.

 

[Bwmat]

someone link me to the ganon ditto plz. I don't wanna search through twitch cause this comp sucks and twitch lags.

 

[-ACE-]

http://www.twitch.tv/vsgc

Look later tonight on there, but if you watch soon we'll see if linguini makes it to GF

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

Ayy dawg @ -ACE- linguini is in grands at VS and you not here, First day I showed up too. HYPE

 

[Coastward]

no one in twitch chat knows who linguini is LMAOOOOO

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

R E S E T B O Y Z

 

[VegiLohrd]

the dream is dead

 

[-ACE-]

Noooooooo!! Lol.

20GT baby

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Damn that was ****ing tense until it had to end anti-climatically. Hot damn though that's a lot of footage to watch. Good ****ing **** @ L Linguini

 

[Bwmat]

those where some hype, tense sets.linguini is so good

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

@ L Linguini is GanonGod

 

[-ACE-]

It is really insane how Emilio vs Michelangelo goes. I really wouldn't know exactly what to say about the matches if I didn't already know that they've been playing together as long as I've played this game pretty much. Because to the naked eye, it looks like Emilio's Ganon dair is a ****ing magnet that sucks luigi into it. Lmao.

Seriously, I already saw this when they played a few weeks ago and I was amazed at how well these 2 guys have each other downloaded, ESPECIALLY being impressed with Emilio's reads. The guy can't shield drop or moonwalk, and can hardly RLD. Makes you think about what's most important (ahhh basics, no wonder kage is so consistent).

I know I've said this a few times already but watching Linguini's instinctual option coverage just reinforces this:

WE MUST PRESSURE HARDER.

-reaction based play
-be able to switch from plan A to plan B mid-shorthop and execute it perfectly
-smart decisions that exploit opposing character weaknesses
-upgrade bait&punish game
-reduce the amount of time and space they have to express themselves. Do not give them free space. Ganon's neutral blows, so don't turn it into a match that allows your opponent to reset neutral often (why I hate puff - no matter what you do she can reset neutral)

If you have the reads though, Ganon looks so ****ing commanding in any matchup.

 

[Coastward]

someone please please please critique and help me with what im doing wrong against sheik. i need more than my own eyes to spot out flaws i cant see.

 

[-ACE-]

I'll peep it later @ Coastward

 

[Coastward]

here's another one that was a week before the previous one that was kinda better.

 

[Coastward]

here's what i picked up from last weekend and from these sets:

uair + bair more, fair less.
practice chaingrab
practice edgeguard
punish fh nair on shield with uair oos
retreat to platforms more
shield grab less, wd oos more.
crouch cancel grab more.

 

[Ministry]

coast you should watch any of my videos from our weeklies in montreal. kage just destroys me every time. hes insane vs sheik.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elTkP9hcAjM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU5h_M6QFCw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nRtVnMxorM

here is the other good sheik player

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mA5PTEDJKnY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZZ8iEJGHNU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ax4CJN9qnY

he is insane at the matchup. and yes hes an amazing player. but got beat pretty bad by shroomed whos like top 10/

he knows all the ins and outs agasint sheik.

 

[-ACE-]

someone please please please critique and help me with what im doing wrong against sheik. i need more than my own eyes to spot out flaws i cant see.

First off, try really hard not to eat unnecessary damage from needles, ESPECIALLY when you're at zero. Try to play somewhat reserved when you have low damage. You'd rather eat a jab or tilt that you can ASDI grab and that is only possible up until a certain percent obviously.

0:15 bodayyyyyyyd

0:22 be careful going towards him when you're above sheik. Use the plats for baits and extra options but don't leave yourself open. You can drop through aerial or wd back.

0:26 Here's where you should think about the matchup a little differently. Remember how important grab is. You landed a great fair but didn't realize it would create a techchase opportunity. You can immediately wd forward just before he techs, ready to pivot dash jc grab tech roll in (baited by the wd, faking aggression), or pressure tech in place with AC bair or tomahawk (must decide mid-shorthop).

0:28 DI away at 0-7% and tech. You'll never get chaingrabbed.

0:31 that ftilt cab be ASDI grabbed.

0:32 in shield too long. Try to jab or grab on reaction.

0:36 you may have tried but buffer roll here.

0:41 first time I noticed this sheik likes to run up and shield.

0:44 sheik fair was spaced too well for shieldgrab, OR shield ASDI grab (imo). Shield SDI.could have landed it but it's tough.

0:47 I hate accidental ledgejumps.

1:01 missed ff for AC bair, then shielded (bad). He's running up and shielding....

1:17 free uair

1:23 free uair before he faired your shield.

1:24 fair oos too risky that close in

1:40 grab ledge and abuse invincibility!

1:47 bair oos attempt too close in, had you retreated you could get a trade.

**** Zelda

3:19 grabbing ledge options is something we should both use and look out for.

3:32 guy loves to run up and shield.

Think grabs and how your own damage should influence your decision making. Respect sheiks space a little more. Decent zoning though for sure. Try to notice his habits earlier and capitalize with anything that kills our leads to grab.

Edit: I love/hate Swype text. Bairs=/=baits.

 

[-ACE-]

The great thing about sheik, once you're a cg monster, is that you just need a grab. Killing her after finishing the cg may require a read in some situations, but it always puts her in a bad spot. The better your DI and neutral game is, the more opportunities you'll have to get the grab. They make one mistake and then you take control of their stock, and thus, the entire game. It gives them little time to adjust and frustrates them. And if you landed it off a ftilt, you're not even at med%.

I'm going to find out exactly where ASDI grabbing sheiks ftilt becomes impossible.

 

[Divinokage]

The great thing about sheik, once you're a cg monster, is that you just need a grab. Killing her after finishing the cg may require a read in some situations, but it always puts her in a bad spot. The better your DI and neutral game is, the more opportunities you'll have to get the grab. They make one mistake and then you take control of their stock, and thus, the entire game. It gives them little time to adjust and frustrates them. And if you landed it off a ftilt, you're not even at med%.

I'm going to find out exactly where ASDI grabbing sheiks ftilt becomes impossible.

When I played Shroomed it seemed so hard to get one. I really need to practice to be able to contend vs these guys. I think the only way we can all catch up is if we do it old school style which is 40h a week minimum of smashing.

 

[-ACE-]

True, you have to focus on maximizing your opportunities for grabs, as they will be missed. And definitely take mental notes every time you miss one, finely tuning your knowledge of what your safest options are as you go. It's super important that you notice any habits, like if they like to fair your shield and DD grab. Situations where their spacing makes it iffy as to whether you should grab, roll, uair, dash, read him and grab his grab etc., it's a tough call.

I'll always consider reward potential. If sheik is at 0% on FD I'm more likely to try grab. If she's at 130% on DL64 I'll try to land a spaced aerial or tilt/jab and follow-up if necessary.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Yo so I noticed last night when Linguini was playing, he was using a lot of instant fairs and fast falling them so that he would get the tip of fair to come out and hit a standing player. This looked really fast and I wanted to practice it on my own today to see how legit it is.

It turns out it not only hits people on the ground, but it also has a lot of space in the upper part of the air as well, and with you starting the fair as soon as you jump, there's a less chance of you getting stuffed. I feel like Linguini used this a good few times in order to catch an opponent running away or cutting off space quickly. You have to get that fast fall as soon as possible though, or else it completely whiffs. Also doing this is surprisingly hard to l-cancel consistently, so I'm gonna need to practice that more.

For a long time I thought doing instant fairs would not get people hit on the ground but it turns out that's not actually true. I used to delay my fairs a bit to accomplish the same thing and make it easier, but it often gets stuffed this way. I also tested doing this out of shield, and if you full analog jump forward out of shield and do the instant fair and FF right, you can definitely hit a Marth f-smashing your shield, Fox upsmashing your shield, etc.

@ -ACE- It becomes impossible to ASDI down grab Sheik's ftilt once you reach 30%.

 

[-ACE-]

Nice, thought it was upper 30s :<

 

[Coastward]

i really want a VOD of that match, tipmans movement was something that id die for.

 

[-ACE-]

I really hope they get better at uploading to YouTube. Some tourneys never get uploaded. Well, every other game but melee.

 

[Duel]

Can I get some advice on getting out of Sheik's Cg on Ganon? I know it says in the guide to DI away and mixup from light and hard, but that never seems to work for me.

Edit: I also notice Kage Di'ing in and jumping out

 

[-ACE-]

Up and sliiiiiiightly behind and try to jump out. DI away too EZ for them to regrab (but always DI away at 0-7% and tech asap). Mix in full behind also. Force them to pivot, but not every time. Sometimes at higher percents, it's best to DI full behind if you know you'll survive the bair (they never pivot fair really lol). This also avoids tipper usmash.

 

[Duel]

Up and sliiiiiiightly behind and try to jump out. DI away too EZ for them to regrab (but always DI away at 0-7% and tech asap). Mix in full behind also. Force them to pivot, but not every time. Sometimes at higher percents, it's best to DI full behind if you know you'll survive the bair (they never pivot fair really lol). This also avoids tipper usmash.

I'm so confused, so I DI towards them to get behind sheik? I must have read the guide wrong on here, I have been mixing up light and hard DI away...

Edit: This is what the Vs. guide on here says. " It is best to DI in front of her. Alternate between hard and light DI's. This would force Sheik to either run forward and grab or walk forward and grab"

 

[RedmanSSBM]

 

[-ACE-]

You are safe 0-7%ish.

They always grab DI away over 8%.

They always grab no DI.

They at least have to pivot for slight behind.
*Possibility of flub and confusion between partial/full DI.

They have to pivot dash to grab full behind beyond a certain %.
*Possibility of flub and confusion between partial/full DI.

The vs thread is a little outdated.

 

[Duel]

You are safe 0-7%ish.

They always grab DI away over 8%.

They always grab no DI.

They at least have to pivot for slight behind.
*Possibility of flub and confusion between partial/full DI.

They have to pivot dash to grab full behind beyond a certain %.
*Possibility of flub and confusion between partial/full DI.

The vs thread is a little outdated.

Thanks! Di Behind it is then. Another question, is there anything I can about getting waveshined other than holding towards the stage to grab the edge?

 

[-ACE-]

Well mix DI away too lol. Never get really repetitive. I'm giving you the options that get overlooked.

SDI the shine. It's hard to time but away should force their wd to be insanely perfect. I can't quite explain but alternating SDI left/right helps, with away being a little better. And what you said is very important.

 

[Coastward]

played alot against sheik today. worked on the things i needed to improve but found a few more things:

how should i be punished needle > dropdown nair/fair? on one hand i feel like i can just roll away and reset neutral, but on the other hand i feel like i can actually punish the dropdown aerial if i time it right.

how should i be smash di'ing tilts during combos? i started doing this tonight to experiment escaping combos but ultimately ended up with around 70% everytime. ganons too fat and sheik has some autocombos.

gotta learn crouch cancel %s too.