Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Laharl's_Wrath]

on the subject of confidence
relistening to random motivational speech time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH0nP4NzS9M

 

[Coastward]

this is a suitable time to redirect everyone to the post @ spider_sense made, linking the first attack videos on analyzing your opponent/confidence. really good watch.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

I'm thinking that I can play vs Puff on small stages like BF, YS, and FoD, and I'll play Doc on PS, FD, and DL (in a best of 5).

I feel like on smaller stages I have a bit more control over what I can do to puff, as my moves are big and can be hard to avoid, and I don't have to worry about my speed slowing me down. Doc just seems better for bigger stages cause his speed allows him to get around and whatnot. I still need to study Doc vs Puff, but I feel like this is a doable approach.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

another video of me got uploaded!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28agv48dlno&list=UUFvriOljZ6Ovcgl9OIFJVQA

this was grands. i played pretty badly the first set.

i'm finding that it's harder for me to stay focused when i stay in a bracket long enough. in other competitive settings, i never have to stay mentally active for that long. in chess, i had to stay focused but it's a slower paced game so it wasn't so hard to do. and comparing smash to a sport makes you realize how different the thinking is; it seems more like a battle of attrition. i think it's largely a mental thing, but there are probably some things i could be doing to stay composed. how do you guys feel about this?

the second set i pulled it together and started playing well again, but my main motivation was to get style points by pulling off really strange stuff so i still don't think i played as well this set as winner's finals even though it was a clean 3-0 again.

please give some tips yo. i'm watching myself and taking notes, but other people, especially ganon players' inputs are usually extremely helpful.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

@ L Linguini has taken a set off of Dr. Peepee before.

match 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReqJrHNT3XI
match 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LFF7LHurxE
match 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLLOTLHvRMc

This is old as hell though. @ L Linguini when did you first start playing melee competitively? I never really did get that to be narrowed down. Same goes to you @ Divinokage I'm curious when you guys started.

 

[Divinokage]

@ L Linguini has taken a set off of Dr. Peepee before.

match 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReqJrHNT3XI
match 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LFF7LHurxE
match 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLLOTLHvRMc

This is old as hell though. @ L Linguini when did you first start playing melee competitively? I never really did get that to be narrowed down. Same goes to you @ Divinokage I'm curious when you guys started.

Omg I lost to him 3 times that tournament.. lol but he wasn't a top player quite yet. Darkrain beat Hbox at that tournament but Hbox wasn't a god yet either. It makes me sad im still ass vs Falco somewhat..

I started pretty much when i created my account here on Smashboards. End 2006.

 

[Renth]

Linguini started competitive ssbm when he was like 9 years old

 

[-ACE-]

Linguini was insanely good in less than a year. Florida is just so stacked.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

So I was just practicing some stuff on my own and I've come to discover that using the c-stick to jump out of shield into other actions is actually a lot easier than I originally comprehended. Doing a short-hop upair out of shield is really easy, just hold shield and hit up on the c-stick twice really fast. Doing a full-hop dair out of shield you just hold shield, hold up on the c-stick enoguh to make you full hop, then hit down on the c-stick and it feels really easy and fluid. You can even wavedash out of shield using the c-stick. I feel like if I practice this more that I can get really proficient at it. I feel like this could be very useful vs Falco when you want to shield his lasers, and when you hit the c-stick while in shield, you'll buffer the move you want to do, so if a laser hits your shield and you hit up on the c-stick, this means you'll jump out of shield the earliest frame out of the hit-stun and you can upair falco to punish him if he's close, or wavedash towards him to close the gap. You can even keep holding the shield during all of this so when you land, you're once again shielding.

This doesn't make Ganon's OoS options any better, but I find this method to be an easier and more consistent and efficient way for myself and my fingers. upair comes out pretty fast, being the fastest with it would make for a great tool.

 

[Coastward]

@ tm THAT DOWN B NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO YOU HAD IT

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Noooooooooooo @ tm you were so close to beating Vudujin

Solid play man, very impressive.

 

[iRanch]

totally had that second game @ tm rip. you worked fod really well that second game. very impressed. luigi utilt seems to wreck ganon.

 

[GanonMaster]

I GOT SECOND AT THE LOCAL TODAY <3

So my Ganon/Peach dual main plan seems to be working. Going to a regional next weekend, (With Armada, Leffen, Ice, Over etc) so I can really test things there.

so I rekt the best Falco in losers finals, he usually 3-stocks me rofl XD

EDIT: rekt the Falco with Peach, then he switched to Marth and I switched to Ganon

 

[-ACE-]

OMG HULK. I don't know what you're doing right now, but I hope you're practicing ledgedashes, lmao. I'll add more later

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Shoot, @ tm almost beat Vudujin? I missed it I'll have to watch the VoD.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

OMG HULK. I don't know what you're doing right now, but I hope you're practicing ledgedashes, lmao. I'll add more later

those were a bunch of mental farts. i don't think i dropped one in any of the other sets i played that day. but that's what i'm saying, it's hard to stay composed the entire tournament and thus i'll mess up stupid **** like that.

 

[Coastward]

he seemed super nervous at the very last second. i dont blame him though, good **** man.

 

[-ACE-]

Wanted, this will be brief since I watch everything on my phone, but you need to use more uair spike instead of bair edgeguarding peach. Unless bair kills, you've given her so much space to recover that you've forfeited control (essentially reset neutral). In the neutral game, your aerial spacing needs a tune-up and you seemed to have an absence of ground game (to a degree), not that it's huge vs peach in comparison to other matchups. Try to grab more. More fastfalling into wavelands too. It'll add to your speed and give you more openings.

That peach needs work on spacing also. When peach really starts camping it gets hard for Ganon.

 

[cptjiggles69]

Cool combo of the day:

Stomp --> grab --> tech chase with dsmash --> regrab --> tech chase with dsmash again --> fair --> edge guard with WF spike. Performed on Ripple's jank *** falcon.

Can you get a video of it?

 

[Linguini]

rofl those matches vs pp are hilarious. you know they're old when i'm playing red ganon. I started in 06, same a kage...when I was 14 lmao

 

[GanonMaster]

lol I'm on the frontpage of Reddit xD
http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2l12jb/how_good_is_jonnis_falco/

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Dang @ tm you had him that second game, but I really think that down-b was a call of desperation and it looks like you didn't keep your cool all the way until the end. No discredit to you getting him down to one stock both times though, I just wish you would have finished it out. The down-b was just way too far away for it to really do anything and I've always considered doing down-b in neutral against fast characters is a bad idea and will get punished. I think if instead you threatened him with that back air it would have put some fear into him, and you could have closed it out.

 

[Renth]

The desperation down b has hurt me way more times than it has ever helped me. Can someone link the TM match everyone is talking about. Luigi is a match up I have an absurd about of exp in.. playing Abate, Vudujin BluEG and Blea. all in the past

 

[RedmanSSBM]

@ Renth http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp/b/584194087?t=2h9m23s

 

[spider_sense]

I used to do desperation side-b so much; that nowadays I just limit it to just techchasing, hard reads, and combo enders. Renth, I would love to see how well you do against Blea, hopefully we'll be out there for that Orlando national happening. Ace needs to try to come through again.

 

[-ACE-]

I don't know for sure but I think i have time off in 3-4 weeks. Going To ft lauderdale to drop my truck off at the performance shop for a new camshaft, stall converter, high performance pushrods, springs, lifters, etc. (500hp here I come). Going to NJ most of my time off but I'm def going to get up with spider_sense, blea, rula, mesa, etc. For some games before and after I fly up there. Just waiting for my boss to give out the schedule.

"Desperation" side-b/down-b are best used at the ledge when facing the center of the stage. The reward is actually as high the risk as you'll send them offstage (time the down-B on techs to get the reverse hit). And using it like linguini does (CC'd when your opponent is at ko percent) is actually not that risky and the reward is obviously high.

 

[GanonMaster]

so played some friendlies with the second best local Falco today, and the mu is definitly not impossible with Ganon. It is a lot easier with Marth and Peach tho!

 

[-ACE-]

PAL Ganon vs falco has to be hard minus the falco dair TRU spike

 

[GanonMaster]

yes, it is hard, but doable. Like I said, I see no reason to not use Peach for Falco because it is a lot easier xD

 

[-ACE-]

Glad you feel that way GanonMaster, now I'd like to see you vs rula. The matchup only looks decent when the Ganon player can effectively read the falco.

 

[Coastward]

Glad you feel that way GanonMaster, now I'd like to see you vs rula. The matchup only looks decent when the Ganon player can effectively read the falco.

i got rula down to 1 stock in my first match against him at big house pretty easily.

he read the **** out of me the 2nd game tho.

 

[GanonMaster]

ye, you need to punish all the small mistakes, and then have some solid reads to win lol

 

[GanonMaster]

finally watched the tm set, and I was surprised at a few things..

The Fountain cp:
mostly because I have no idea what is good stages against good luigi-players (I have only played 1 Luigi my whole life)

The reason I was unsure if that was a good cp was because of what happened on the last stock. getting stuck when platforms where low!

The mu:
Edgeguarding Luigi seems like a doable task. uair and bair when he is recovering looks god tier.

the missile:
Should ganon be more defensive when Luigi fires a missile in case of missfire? the possibility is always there, and it is hella strong.

 

[-ACE-]

Rula is beatable lol, but he has Ganon experience. If you can consistently beat a falco of that level you're getting somewhere.

 

[tm]

ugh, yes I downB'd and I shouldn't have, gosh I'm getting so much **** for it. He's a better player, he probably would have just beaten me on poke. I'm glad I got the exp though. I actually outplaced some of the 1st seeds, so I probably shouldn't have been in an R1 pool with him.

Got 5th in teams, losing to the 1st place and 2nd place (BARELY) teams. Nice seeding, just out of the money.

 

[Moy]

@ tm good stuff regardless man, if you had been on stream more I would've bet more of my coliseum coins on you.

 

[-ACE-]

Tipman spike >>> bair for edgeguarding luigi. Just like I said about peach, unless bair kills, survival DI allows him to recover from the top of the stage, so he has plenty of space and time to safely drift closer to the stage and aquire a few safe options to get back on his feet. In contrast, uair spike just dumpsters luigi. Invincible ledgehop uair onto stage is really good when you know he has to up-b (and when). Stomp isnt even that bad imo, if you dont have time/spacing isnt right for the uair.

If luigi has used his jump, stomp the missile and LOL.

 

[Linguini]

You don't want to give luigi more height when you're edgeguarding him. either uair or stomp that ***** like ace said. Unless he's 120 + then a bair should be able to dispose of him easily.

 

[spider_sense]

It's that misfire that keep me on edge; I'm usually so scared to go out there and bair sometimes because it seems so sporadic at times, but can bair still beat out misfire?

 

[Superspright]

Wanted, this will be brief since I watch everything on my phone, but you need to use more uair spike instead of bair edgeguarding peach. Unless bair kills, you've given her so much space to recover that you've forfeited control (essentially reset neutral). In the neutral game, your aerial spacing needs a tune-up and you seemed to have an absence of ground game (to a degree), not that it's huge vs peach in comparison to other matchups. Try to grab more. More fastfalling into wavelands too. It'll add to your speed and give you more openings.

That peach needs work on spacing also. When peach really starts camping it gets hard for Ganon.

To add, this match up is about intercepting her. She can effectively push you into corners so you have to be prepared to make reads on her. CC only works on her dash attack really. I play against a Peach every single day, and it's almost always the same game of me trying to fish a grab, or trying to max range space on her. Grabs are too much profit to pass up. Free kills, and free percents, and free refreshes on your moves if you remember to pummel so your fair/bair will kill.

It's that misfire that keep me on edge; I'm usually so scared to go out there and bair sometimes because it seems so sporadic at times, but can bair still beat out misfire?

Misfire has an awful hitbox. Bair is very disjointed. I'd trust literally any aerial to beat it. The normal side-b is different. It has a larger hitbox on the head.